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Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything"

By TChris, Section Elections
Posted on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 12:44:07 PM EST
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by TChris

Statements like this might cause a casual observer to wonder whether the vice president has lost touch with reality.

The vice president said in a recent interview that [Howard] Dean was not the type of person to lead a political party and mentioned the chairman's mother. "I've never been able to understand his appeal. Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does. He's never won anything, as best I can tell," Cheney said in an interview on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."

Never won anything?

Dean was elected governor of Vermont five times between 1992 and 2000.

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    Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" | 47 comments (47 topical)
    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    All Republicans can do is attack...and they wonder why their popularity is waning. They are truly the party of attack dogs, biting the ankles of anyone who dares to tell the truth and expose their lies. Why doesn't Cheney take Dean to task on the issues like a credible political figure would?.....Oh yeah, because he's a lying sack of crap with no credibility whatsoever, who's only tactic is attack because he has no decent excuse for what he's done. Republicans are so transparent.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    I'm sorry. Did I miss the election victory of the soaring Democratic party somewhere?

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    The stolen elections of the last five years aren't what is being talked about, Edward. Dean actually has won 9 elections. At least one of the five he won as governor came even after he championed the nation's first law giving gay couples the same government benefits as heterosexual couples. In other words, against a gradient. He did the political work -- the kind of political work that Cheney and Bush are utterly incapable of, backroom boys that they are. Bush and Cheney rely on coercion and lies to go forward -- and you brag about it. Diebold has stolen you folks some elections -- don't let it go to your head. Criminals live under the sword of justice, which may fall at any moment. Since we caught on to the vote-fraud scheme that has propelled the R-traitor party to an undue prominence, it has been a lot easier to laugh at your lies.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Ed- Are you still having trouble staying on topic? The fact that the Vice President doesn't seem to know that Howard Dean had actually been elected, and more than once, is strange, to say the least. Either he really didn't know (scarey), or he was lying (scarey). I just wonder which it was.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#5)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    What do you want from a person who "disassembles" so well:
    Monday, June 20, 2005;WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says [...]
    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    No trouble-you just don't understand. When the waning popularity of Republicans was referenced, I thought I might note that it hasn't been backed by any commensurate Democratic gains. As for being the governor of Vermont, one could argue that that is close to never having won anything. That would be sarcastic, though.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#7)
    by legion on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Um, this may be off-topic, but how long is the term of a Governor in Vermont? 8 (or 9) elections in 8 years (1992-2000) seems a bit insane...

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Fenria, the fact is that the Republicans' polularity is NOT waning -- mostly because over the past couple of decades they've been able to say anything they like about Democrats, and the Democrats don't seem to have the cojones to defend themselves, let alone fight back. As much as the propect of a second Bush term scared me (and continues to scare me), I was also less than comfortable voting for a man who couldn't even stand up to George W. Bush.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#9)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Jeez, legion, go to Vermont's website and read their constitution:
    § 43. [Biennial elections] The Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, Treasurer, Secretary of State, Auditor of Accounts, Senators, Town Representatives, Assistant Judges of the County Court, Sheriffs, High Bailiffs, State's Attorneys, Judges of Probate and Justices of the Peace, shall be elected biennially on the first Tuesday next after the first Monday of November, beginning in A.D. 1914.
    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#10)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Actually Cheney was making a rhetorical comment. He really didn't mean what he said. It was just for emphasis. Actually the important thing is not what he said, but the fact that Dean is not exactly lovable.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    What has bush/cheney "won?" Anything?

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#12)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Ahhh, PPJ thinks he's being amusing by constructing some kind of analogy between Cheney's statement and the discourses surrounding Durbin. Difference is, Durbin never said he didnn't "mean what he said" or that he was just "being rhetorical." He spoke of very specific prison policies shared by a string of governments (as opposed to individual troops as these righty gibbering mouthers want to spin it), including our own. There was no ambiguity. Nothing wrong with the statement, Clear, to the point, easy to understand. Same with Cheney. His statement slams Dean ad hominem, everyone understood it to mean that. Dick didn't pretend to invoke policy disagreements or philosophical differences because he cannot do suich a thing, talk actual issues, as a GOP warlord.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Actually the important thing is not what he said, but the fact that Dean is not exactly lovable. If that isn't the freaking boiler calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    PPJ- "He really didn't mean what he said." In other words, he lied (scarey).

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Thanks for that important and clear distinction PPJ. I am sure Cheney meant the same exact thing when he told John Edwards that he had never met or seen him on the senate floor.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Yes, Jlvngstn, I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Anyone else see this?

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    At DemFest this weekend, someone asked Jim Hightower about the beltway Democrat politicians who have been criticizing Howard Dean for stating the obvious (eg, Republican Party is comprised mainly of white Christians. Who knew?). Hightower said, basically, that they're irrelevant, and they don't even know it. Let them be, and let them think what they are doing is important, and you just do what you need to do. Same for Dick Cheney and this comment. He's talking about the primaries. Yeah, the primaries sucked. Is Howard Dean running for President? Of course not. That would likely be in 2012. Come back in six years with that comment, Dick. Did Howard Dean win anything? Well. There's the Vermont governorship, sure. But look in terms of real life and not personal gratification. For example, look at the success of DFA. I dunno, I think 20 or 30-odd Dean Dozen, Dean-inspired candidates, or DFA-supported won their races. So in terms of the 2004 election, in which Dean did not get elected, he won because the MOVEMENT picked up seats. Also, people ran in races where no Democrat had run in years because he asked them to or inspired them to. This increased visibility for Democrats and will inspire more people to run. Again a win for the MOVEMENT. Let's see, DNC chair is an elected position. That would be winning something. Raising more money in the first quarter than the DNC has done is prior quarters, that would be a win. Dean-inspired candidates continuing to run in 2006 and Democratic clubs coming into existence where they had not existed before, that would be a win. I guess Dick Cheney can use whatever metric he wants to use to define winning. But Republicans ignore the successes of the movement that Dean's involved in at the risk of becoming irrelevant themselves. As to not knowing anyone who loves Dean, there is a certain three-year-old girl who I personally observed run on the stage to hug him Saturday night. This picture is from a different function, but you get the idea. Not to mention the many people who have run for office because he's asked him to, who have worked their hearts out for him, etc, etc. Heh. I guess I was just at a function full of 2000 or so Dean people, so I may be having a bit of trouble seeing where Cheney's coming from. We just run in different circles!

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#18)
    by legion on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Ummm... thanks Daryl, but 'biennial' means 'every two years'. And that still doesn't explain how Dean could be credited with winning 8 elections in 8 years.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#19)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    cheetah - It depends on what the meaning of "mean" means. kth - Remember, rhetorical comments don't count. Ask PIL. glanton writes:
    Clear, to the point, easy to understand.
    Yes it sure was. That's why millions of Americans are screaming for an apology, including Richard Daly, the mayor of Chicago (as in Illinois). Think Durbin can win another election in IL if the major is pis*ed at him?

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    from legion "And that still doesn't explain how Dean could be credited with winning 8 elections in 8 years" Well, start with the statement in the article that Dean won five gubenatorial races. You are the only person saying he's won 8 races in 8 years. Try looking here for the detail of the races Dean has won. He succeeded to the governorship in 1991 when the governor died suddenly, and then was elected to the seat in the 5 subsequent elections.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#21)
    by N in Seattle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    legion misspoke somewhat. If you look at a longer timeframe, however... 1982 -- elected to VT House of Representatives 1984 -- re-elected 1986 -- elected Lieutenant Governor of Vermont 1988 -- re-elected 1990 -- re-elected (note that Lt Gov and Gov run and are voted on separately in VT) 1992 -- elected Governor of Vermont 1994 -- re-elected 1996 -- re-elected 1998 -- re-elected 2000 -- re-elected 2004 -- won DC primary 2004 -- won VT primary 2005 -- won DNC chair If you're counting, that's 13 wins between 1982 and 2005. Yes, there were a goodly number of losses in 2004, but Cheney wasn't talking about that.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#22)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    I've told Cheney a million times not to exaggerate. N in Seattle's done a little internet-searching. Good for "N". The thing that breaks my heart is the Cheney, Bush and the rest of the possé never reach out or build consensus on anything. It's as if Bugs Bunny said, "Mickey Mouse isn't the type of mascot for Disneyland." Gawd, I can only understand our politics through cartoons now.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#23)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Millions of people aren't "screaming" for anything regarding Dick Durbin, Jim. You can be a real drama queen when you wanna be. And you can count me among the many who doesn't give a damn what Richard Daly thinks about Durbin or anything else. Sure, I think he'll be reelected. He hasn't said or done anything wrong. His comments are only offensive after you shwarp the hell out of them. I heard O'Reilly the other day lamenting the fact that our people aren't like they were in WWII, when Americans committed atrocities but it went unreported for the good of the country. That seems to be your complaint in a nutshell--you cannot refute a single damnmed thing that Durbin said anymore than you can refute the statement, the world aint flat. What an interesting intersection we have in this thread. Both Durbin and Dean are being pounded by the media and lackeys like Jim, and for telling the truth. Meanwhile the GOP lies and its unprecedented rollback of civil liberties in America go either justified or apologized away, or else they go virtually undiscussed altogether.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    You're right, Jim, lying IS a rhetorical device. Cheney is a liar, but we already knew that. So maybe it isn't quite as rhetorical as he would like. But it's enough for you barking seals. "1,725 of our best soldiers are dead" is NOT a rhetorical device. It's what we call a 'fact.' Using facts is what is called 'reasoned argument based on facts.' "There's overwhelming evidence there was a connection between al Qaeda and the Iraqi government." - Vice President Cheney, 1/22/04 ... is NOT a fact, and there isn't any evidence, either. It's a rhetorical device known as LYING, which is a fallacious form of argument. You might want to make a note of it -- you use this form of rhetoric all the time.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#25)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    glanton - Drama my as*. Daly is mayor of Chicago. That is in IL. He also has a son in the military. Stand by for a Demo primary when Durbin is next up. And guess what. Durbin's opponent will carry Chicago and the burbs and he'll be history. Good riddance, I say. As for you agreeing that our troops are nazis, etc., let me say this. I find your comment despicable. And I can't separate you from it.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#26)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Yes, Drama. As in only Limbaugh's "dittoheads" and people posturing in front of a camera are "screaming" over Durbin. As in, Durbin didn't do anything wrong. "As for you agreeing that our troops are nazis, etc., let me say this. I find your comment despicable. And I can't separate you from it." You're such an idiot. Nobody said the troops were Nazis. This isn't about the troops at all. Any time someone criticizes Dubya's policies you wingers come back with "They're attacking our troops!" Stick your AFFECTED indignation where the sun don't shine. Durbin was describing policies carried out, and troops don't set policies. But the ones in the upper echelons from the Pentagon on down, they're the ones who Durbin's statement really implicates. Again, and most importantly, you cannot refute what Durbin ACTUALLY SAID. Nor can you refute what Dean ACTUALLY SAID. What you can do is turn it into something else, and by golly you've given it your all. You wouldn't know the truth if Rumsfeld personally put it in a lightbulb and stuck it in your anus. While reciting Donne's poetry.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#27)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Well, Durbin's down and apologized... so another citizen's been brow-beaten and given the hang-dog treatment for daring to point out that having unlawful combatants in a self-admittedly outlaw detention facility is a legally-tottering miasma that threatens our humanity, compassion and grace...

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Been over this thread, and Durbins statement, and can't find a single statement where Durbin (or anyone else here) said our troops were like Nazi's. Just typical RWNJ smoke and mirrors to deflect criticism of their Dear Leader.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    glanton- You are so right, that little "you think the troops are nazis" line he likes to throw around is dispicable, also worn out. He just keeps spouting the same bs every post. Pay no attention to him. He just hasn't had his "shower" yet.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#30)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    ...boy, did this threat get off-topic or what?

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Darryl-Yes it did, and that's been happening alot the last few days. I thought the topic was an especially easy one to discuss. Oh well, some people just can't seem to focus for very long. Thanks N for the great research.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#32)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Sorry folks. Jim is right on this one. Cheney was talking about contracts. Dean has never won any contracts.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#33)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Glanton - You can deny and deny, but the American people can read what Durbin said on the floor of the Senate.
    If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.
    And, evidently, even Durbin has come to see the error of his ways. You know Glanton, when Lott made his untoward statement I immediately said he was wrong, and that he should resign. Pity that you don't have the ability to do the same over Durbin. Adept - I have discovered that when it comes to matters of the Left, you too have a problem in reading. Just look above and focus. I am confident you can do it.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#34)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Glanton - You can deny and deny, but the American people can read what Durbin said on the floor of the Senate.
    If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.
    And, evidently, even Durbin has come to see the error of his ways. You know Glanton, when Lott made his untoward statement I immediately said he was wrong, and that he should resign. Pity that you don't have the ability to do the same over Durbin. Adept - I have discovered that when it comes to matters of the Left, you too have a problem in reading. Just look above and focus. I am confident you can do it.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#35)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report: "On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold....On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor."
    And given this, exactly what is wrong with Durbin's statement? Ans secondly, if Durbin should resign of course you would support the call for Bush's resignation based on his lying to get us into a war. Is there a bigger hypocrite on the planet than PPJ [ member of the republican admin excepted] Of course they don't want you to concentrate on this quote so as usual this is all a self-rightous, overblown, hypocritical assult whose main purpose is to draw attention away from the real issues. Of course almost everyone here knows that and have stated so above.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#36)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    Unfortunately, Santorum's sharp criticism stands in dramatic contrast to his silence -- and the silence of other top Republicans -- when his GOP colleagues have made even more objectionable analogies using Nazi and Holocaust rhetoric. Here are a few examples: Senator James Inhofe, Chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee (R-OK), characterized EPA staff as a "Gestapo bureaucracy." Just last October, Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL), while speaking in opposition to stem cell research, said, "We certainly have all seen the rejections of Nazi Germany's abuses of science. As a society and a nation, there ought to be some limit on what we can allow or should allow." Similarly, former Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX) was inspired by a Democratic tax plan to state, "Now, forgive me, but that is right out of Nazi Germany. I don't understand ... why all of a sudden we are passing laws that sound as if they are right out of Nazi Germany." Even more shockingly, Representative Tom Cole (R-OK) had the audacity to tell local Oklahoma Republicans last March that a vote against President Bush's re-election was akin to supporting Adolph Hitler during World War Two. Adding injury to insult, consider that Senator Kerry earned at least 75% of the votes of American Jews. Then there is the case of Representative Peter King (R-NY). In opposing a court's pro-choice ruling on the floor of Congress, King thought it appropriate to proclaim, "That, Mr. Speaker, is a modern-day equivalent of the Nazi prison guard saying 'I was just following orders.' It was all legal in Nazi Germany at the time." Even House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex), like Santorum a key member of the congressional Republican leadership, termed the Environmental Protection Agency the "gestapo of government." Perhaps the best case of Senator Santorum's selective outrage involves the very powerful conservative Republican powerbroker, Grover Norquist -- a figure few GOP politicians dare criticize. In October 2003, Norquist compared the estate tax to the Holocaust during an interview on National Public Radio. After some had taken note of Norquist's completely unacceptable rhetoric, a reporter gave Norquist a chance to retract his statements in a January 23, 2004 article in the Forward. Instead, he asserted that his original statements were "entirely reasonable," and he added a new wrinkle -- a comparison of Democrats to Nazis. The Forward article quotes Norquist as saying, "The Nazis were for gun control, the Nazis were for high marginal tax rates.... Do you want to talk about who's closer politically to national socialism, the Right or the Left?" Moreover, Norquist "told the Forward that he would not hesitate to use Holocaust comparisons in the future."
    LINK

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    soccerdad- First, thanks for the great work. I have read, and been horrified and sickened by, these reports too. I cannot understand how a human being can commit these acts on another, and some of the postings I have read on this site sicken me. These people use their "kill the messenger" routine purely as a smoke screen. I respect Sen. Durbin for bringing this report into the open and reading it in the Senate. I am distressed that he caved on the apology. He should never have done that, and the other Dems. look like traitors to a fellow Dem. He should have read it more often, and other Dems. should have as well. The moral outrage about throwing around references to Hitler, the nazis, etc. wasn't heard much, sometimes not at all, when the Reps. used this tactic. Also, they used those words as direct attacks. That's different in every way from Durbin's use. I would support the "call for Bush's resignation" as you asked, but I believe you were asking that question of the right-wing supporters. I am anything but that.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#38)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    SD!! - Welcome back. Last time I saw you, you were leaving in a snit. Haven't seen Bush called a war criminal since you left. Always need a little comedy around here. BTW - No one ever wants to talk about what those "innocent" terrorist do after we release them. Here's a link to some prime examples. I trust you won't be too shocked to discover that they returned to their evil ways.
    Among the names listed in the memo is Mohammed Yusif Yaqeb (search), also known as Mullah Shazada. Yaqeb was released in May 2003. He proceeded to become the head of Taliban (search) operations in southern Afghanistan and was killed one year later in a fight with U.S. forces.
    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    ...and just like the thread where Soc said he wasn't coming back, you completely ignored the information he posted and went off in another direction. Good job, Soc, but as you see, it is ultimately for naught. Just another distraction -- and once again, it works. Maybe we should focus on why so many people are so easily distracted by BS political manoevers.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#40)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    The world spins on its axis, night follows day, and PPJ is worthless

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    It's a typo...Cheney actually said Dean never STOLE anything, how could he be qualified to lead?

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#42)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    Kdog - You got me. Tell us. SD - Thanks. I needed that. TS - Uh, I plead guilty to being off topic. As was SD and about 10 comments back. As to his "points." 1. The FBI memo has been around for a long, long time and has been posted and re-posted. Not only on TL, but other blogs. It isn't exactly news. I can't even figure why SD posted it. And he understands why Durbin's statement ignited a firestorm. Really. SD is an intelligent, though misguided, person. My reply was just to point out that hey, those aren't Chamber of Commerce members down there, and yes, they just might know some things we need to find out. Course my comment is still, Terrorists/guerillas/unlawful combatants get executed. 2. As to all the examples of Repubs saying nasty things to Demos, and I'll just include Demos doing it to Repubs, e.g. Dean, Reid, etc..... Well, I haven't been upset about that, except to point out it is counterproductive for the Demos to stir up the Repub base. The point is that these attacks shown by SD are not against the military during a time of war, and not a slur against the country, but rather against political opponents. There is a difference in people's minds. They expect politicans to say things about each other. It is the nature of the beast. People tend to ignore it. SD - BTW, are you telling me the Nazis weren't for gun control, and weren't for high tax rates? And can you tell me why saying so should be the least bit controversial? Anyway, welcome back big guy. I missed you. Hugs and hugs.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    The only truth is the Republican truth when a Republican lies(makes a misstatment) --then it's called a rhetorical point and it's ok...becaues their point was valid. what a crock

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#45)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    PPJ, you are disingenuous as ever, that FBI memo was part of Durbin's speech which puts his comments in context. Of course you choose to ignore that in order to carry on with your character asassination. PPJ we all know there is nothing you can do to the detainees that you would call torture. Your lack of morals, lack of intellectual honesty, and lack of concern for the truth are truly breathtaking. It is people like you who have served as the bedrock of repressive, undemocratic, imperialistic, and/or fascist states throughout the world and throughout history.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#46)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    “All Republicans can do is attack… The stolen elections of the last five years… What has bush/cheney "won?" Anything?… this is all a self-rightous, overblown, hypocritical assult whose main purpose is to draw attention away from the real issues… The only truth is the Republican truth when a Republican lies…” This crap is hypnotic. The Republicans have four fists deep in the Iraq/Economic tar baby and what I see are the Democrats crying all the way through the next lost election cycle; a willing forfeiture.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#47)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    SD - We all understood that, and have been discussing it for several days. Didn't they let you have internet access at the "farm?" DA - Here is an obligatory comment. Wouldn't want to make you angry. ;-) SD -
    We all know...
    I see you still have that mouse in your pocket.

    Re: Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    Dark Avenger- Oh indeed I do! Yes, I believe you can "bear" it just fine! By the way, he's been misquoting alot lately, as well as unable to go back and find his errors. As I told him on another thread, he looks tired. Good use of H.L. Mencken, too. Keep up the good work!

    Cheney Says Howard Dean "Never Won Anything" | 47 comments (47 topical)