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Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers

By Jeralyn, Section Foreign Affairs
Posted on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 07:36:11 AM EST
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Very few things render me speechless. This is one of them. Via PageOneQ:

Two boys, one aged 18 and one underage minor, were lashed 228 times before being hung by Iranian authorities in the northeastern city of Mashad, PageOneQ has learned.

Within hours of the execution, Members of Iran’s parliament expressed outrage, not for the deaths of the two young men, identified only by the the initials A.M. and M.A., but at journalists who reported the ages of those who were put to death.

More here.

Ignorant, despicable barbarians. A pox on all their houses.

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    Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers | 65 comments (65 topical)
    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#1)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Yet we should deal with this kind of extremism with love and understanding right?

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#2)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Patrick - and what do you suggest keeping in mind that gays have been beaten to death here in the US? As repugnant as it is, its their country. And of course lets not forget the irony in Bush's bringing "freedom" to Iraq which is fostering closer ties with Iran and personal behavior being ruled by Islamic Law. Women have already paid a big price in much of Iraq.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    wow, a leftist so far gone in moral relativism that he can't muster any outrage for a government sponsored killing based on sexual orientation. and he still manages to bring the argument back to Bush.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#4)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Soc used to be smart. Something happened. He thinks he can fool somebody, anybody, into thinking there's some kind of equivalence between gay-bashing by thugs--who are generally in prison shortly thereafter--and the actions of the state. Maybe he's been smoking some of Paul in LA's stuff. You see what happened to Paul, Soc. You should stop while you can.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Human Beings...the most savage animals on earth.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Ah, the trolls are out in force today...

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    LtL: weren't root causes the big concern here following the 7/7 Rove distraction event. shouldn't we be asking why they hate these kids so much so we can determine how the kids wronged them. these are the folks you are sympathizing with and finding excuses for in all their glory.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    There's no end to what you can do when there's no separation between church and state. What's a few hangings when you have God on your side? It could happen here.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#9)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    OK, at the small risk of being trolled, I'm going to express the view that barbarismn itself is relative. If the so-called christian fundies in the USA had their way there would be greater shaming, outing and punishment of gays in this country for the "sin" of homosexuality. You know, some might even approve of this abominable execution. Does that make me an apologist for Iranian barbarity. If you think so, shove it.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#10)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Yet we should deal with this kind of extremism with love and understanding right?
    Oh, no. Absolutely not. This calls for "exhausting all diplomatic options" before we "go to war as a last resort."

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    It could happen here
    It has...to black men in the south. Were not talking ancient history either...less than 100 years. And how was it stopped? Not through bullets or bombs, but through the courage to face violence with peaceful indignation.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#12)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Don. Other than Fred Phelps & Co., can you name a fundie as vile as it pleases you to say? If it weren't for my degree in psychology, I'd be talking about projection. If talk predicts action, I'd say conservatives were under more threat from US lefties than gays are from US conservatives. For some reason, several people in the last couple of months have posted Phelps' bio. Turns out he was an active civil-rights litigator with a good rep in the minority communities. Then, after he got older, one of his kids was hit on by a pederast in a public park. Public park pederast. That seemed to have flipped him. Here's a spot for the application of the root-cause doctrine.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#13)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    This is insane and its sad, the fact is Bush is now helping Iran and Iran will be helping Bush business in Iraq. Do You Know what Bush is now backing? IN Iran, Ed?..soccerdad is right..its sad to see people murdered in iran and here, but bush is the real evil-doer in all things...by the way in about 6 weeks 2 to 7 u.s., cities will disappear because of bush.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#14)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    kdog. Wrong. It was federal marshalls, the FBI, federal prosecutors, and, from time to time, federal troops. The non-violence schtick was designed to elicit general sympathy on the 6:30 news to force the dispatch of the folks mentioned in the preceding graph. I was there, sport.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#15)
    by owenz on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    I don't think analogizing the actions of the Iranian government to the American religious right is any more appropriate than comparing Scandinavian socialists to Stalin. To do so is factually incorrect, morally insensitive, and rhetorically counter-productive. However... What I'd like to see from conservatives and, indeed, the Bush Administration is the condemnation and repudiation of the following: 1. The indiscriminant use of the death penalty 2. The use of torture as a means of punishment and interrogation 3. The barbaric practice of executing minors 4. Criminal statutes that punish individuals based on their sexual orientation or consensual homosexual sexual acts If conservatives don't want to repudiate all of the above, I will not compare them to the Iranian government in any way shape or form. I will, however, point to Iran’s laws as an example of these policies I describe in action.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#16)
    by Pete Guither on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Yet we should deal with this kind of extremism with love and understanding right?
    Yes. We need to understand the politics, the motivations, the history, so that actions we take aren't counter-productive. And we need to love the people enough to find an effective solution. What we don't need to do is drop a bunch of bombs, kill thousands of them, have no plan for what we do afterward, and end up with people that hate us and a new government with the same religious extremism. No, using love and understanding doesn't mean being a pussy. It means being smart. Take the image of those two boys being hanged and bring it to every country in the world with your diplomatic power to bring an economic hammer of sanctions down on the government of Iran. At the same time, work to open the spread of information and culture in Iran -- get the people to want a different life, so that the extremist government loses its support. It may be easier to kill people, but it doesn't work better.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Kdog Less than a hundred years, try less that fifty. Try now, since we're locking up people and throwing away the key without charges -- and NOT giving them POW status. As for the Irania men carryout out this travesty, I'd guess a good percentage of them are gay themselves. That's usually the only explanation for that kind of murderous homophobia (see Gay Nazi Leaders). Forget the Koran, this is about pathetic, insecure, unevolved men. I'm also reminded of a story I read about Kandahar being once again the young boy molesters capital of the Islamic world. The solution? Guns and bombs? Gums and bonds?

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Richard, You may have been there, but you were not in the middle of it. Federal Marshalls, the National Guard, came in AFTER THE HARD WORK OF RISKING YOUR LIVES FOR FREEDOM WAS DONE by unarmed citizens taking to the streets. What a disgusting slap in the face to all those ordinary people who actually risked something in the name of peace, who took it upon themselves LONG BEFORE the federal government ever got involved. Revising history is right and honorable when you are revising toward the truth. Not the other way around. I think you watched "Mississippi Burning" too many times.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#19)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    I stand by my remarks, my several degrees in both law and psychology notwithstanding. The virulence of this example may not be directly compared to homegrown examples in the present day -- although were not many lynchings quasi-official pronouncements of societal justice. However, the wink and nod crowd on the far right is a small shade this side of 1)incitement to violence and 2) encouragement of repressive government action. Forgive my emotion, but this sort of thing should be a wake up call to the path of fundamentalism throughout the world. Haughty little lectures about how Scandanavian socialism is not Stalinism do little to make me feel better about the hate messages spewed from the right. Find your own examples; I'm not feeding those trolls.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Ed, [namecalling deleted], you're saying I sympathize with these extremist thugs? Go away troll. The republican lie that liberals sympathize with terrorists is getting really old. Get a clue.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#21)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Three gay people are executed per week in Iran on average (over 4000 since 1979). Trust me, we're not going to war any time soon to save gay people. No one in a position of political power in this country has had the decency or the courage to speak out about, let alone act on this violence perpetrated against innocent people, and we've known about it for 25 years. The assertion that most of the people perpetrating these crimes against humanity are themselves gay is counterproductive and factually unsupportable. Dadler, I am sure you weren't blaming the holocaust on gay people, but that is sure how it came out.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Unfortunately the war in Iraq elevated the Mullahs in Iran who push this kind or Barbarism. That's how it relates to Bush. The Iraq war has been a great gift to the forces of idolitry and intolerance. That being said, it is purely and simply barbaric and abhorent. It may be there country and we may have just helped make it worse. That doesn't make this crime against humanity any less disgusting. We must all condemn this kind of thing whenever it happens regardless of the root cause, otherwise we don't stand for very much.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#23)
    by txpublicdefender on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Until 100 years ago? 50 years ago? Up until two years ago, when the Supreme Court decided Lawrence v. Texas, there were still states in this country that criminalized consensual, homosexual acts. Granted, at least in Texas, it was a fine-only offense, but it was a crime for which you could be arrested and taken to jail.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#24)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    DonS: I feel for ya, buddy. Pat Robertson (business partner of Charles Taylor, a brutal African dictator with known al Qaida ties), Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, et. al. are just the friendly public faces of dominion theology, which espouses the need to take over the world and create a theocratic state in order to prepare the world for the second coming. Religious extremism of any kind is very dangerous. We can't give an inch.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Michael, Holy Jesus, no, do you really think I meant that? I'm from a theatre family, work in the entertainment biz, I probably AM gay. But seriously, we know who carried out the holocaust, it was millions of Nazis of all stripes. My rhetorical point about a few Nazi higher-ups being gay and STILL sending gay people to the ovens was made to make a larger point about the hypocrisy of powerful men. And of course all these guys hanging these kids arent closeted homosexual men, I was using a clumsy stereotype to satirize, but in a society like that, with SO MANY prohibitions, with SO MUCH SEXUAL REPRESSION, a good part of the homophobia is pure self-hatred. That self-hatred is the ultimate key to a society reaching such level of oppression and violence against homosexuals. You must feel completely powerless at your core to go so far in abusing another person who has done nothing to you. And followers, who do what they are told by "leaders", whether religous or secular, are powerless by nature, that's why they're followers in the first place. Ack, I'm losing it here. Again, apologies for the perception I gave in my first post. But I'm not sure this one helped that much.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#26)
    by fafnir on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    This is a harbinger of things to come to America if right-wing fundamentalists are given unfettered control of our nation. Pity the woman who is caught aborting an unwanted pregnancy; have mercy on the gay couple attempting to sanctify their love for each other in a lifetime commitment.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#27)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Of course the contact page of the Islamic Republic of Homophobic Creeps' mission to the UN is "404: Not found". Cowards. But you can still apparently send e-mail to the IRHC's embassy in Ottawa: http://www.salamiran.org/Embassy/Contact/index.html. Go.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#30)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Truely sick stuff. I am sure a western leader is to blame for everything that goes wrong. Dadler: LOL, keep on digging. Now you are gay because your family supposedly worked in theater. I was in a school play in the sixth grade, I may be gay.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#31)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    kdog. You got it half right. The non-violent provocations had to come first. And there was no question among us--I didn't go armed, and I have made it a point not to see "Mississippi Burning"--that the reason for the non-violence was to get Bull Connor--speaking generically--to do his thing in front of the cameras. Absent that, the force wouldn't have been sent. No force, no change. Or, in other circumstances, no force or non-violence and still change. Most of the south saw neither, but still changed.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#32)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Thank You Al, people should start e.mailing at once, this outrage is not only abouy gay people being murdered by a insane government its also about the rights of all humans on this earth, E.MAIL SAY SOMETHING.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#33)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    All I know is that hanging gay teenagers for being gay is sad, sad, stuff. Those of you who are using it as an excuse to engage in good old-fashioned red-baiting, just stop. All you're proving is your pettiness, and your basic lack of respect for the victims in this case. A pox on your houses, indeed.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Rich...you seem to agree with me that the non-violent response suceeded where violence would surely have failed. If you and your fellow civil rights marchers had rifles and pitchforks in hand, you would have given creedence to the cracker's claims that you were all violent savage negroes and violent commie negroe sympathizers. By remaining non-violent in the face of violence you showed the world who was in the right. The same applies today...responding to heinous acts of terrorism with "shock and awe" violent tactics lends creedence to the claims of the fundamentalist crazies.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    all gay peple in Iran should move to Iraq...freedom is on the march there...

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#36)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:28 PM EST
    Wrong, kdog. Had the non-violent people gotten violent, the general sympathy in the rest of the country which propelled the federal force into the south would not have materialized. "Chicks to the front" was not because the women were less threatening. It was because seeing women assaulted with hoses and dogs and clubs generated a more visceral response in the watchers. More outrage. Non-violence works, when it works, when the predominant force in the area is on its side. As Gandhi said, his tactics would not have worked against the Germans or the Japanese. Eventually, the British public figured they'd rather take a chance on the partition riots than have their own guys shoving people around. Whether the net result was a win is, IMO, not yet settled.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#40)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    Since we're all supposed to be sensitive to other cultures and worldviews, isn't it important to see if your theory is correct, or if the possibility that reacting non-violently will generate feelings of contempt and cause them to think we are weak and contemptible and deserve to be attacked, and, given our non-violent response, it won't even be difficult? Just a suggestion.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#41)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    RA you trot out the old moral relativism argument when you have no idea what you are talking about. I woudl say clearly that the killing of gays either by private thugs or government thugs is wrong. As I think the killing of innocent Iraqis is wrong. It is you and the rest of the neocon a**holes who have their collective heads up their butts because it is you who practice moral relativism by finding ways to justify the killing of innocents by one side while railing about the killing of innocents by the other. It is I and many others here who have been morally consistent because we find the killing of all innocents regardless of their country as morally reprehensible. You guys find all sorts of ways of justifying immoral actions by your use of relative moralism. But in fact you are either amoral or immoral by your pronoucements, take your choice. And for you morons who can't read I said the action was repugnent.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    Check the facts, not the spin. The "crime" for which these guys were hanged was that of rape of a thirteen year-old boy not merely homosexuality.
    Tehran, Iran, Jul. 19 - A young man and a minor were hanged in public on Tuesday in Iran’s second largest city, a government-funded news agency reported. The two, only identified by their initials M.A and A.M., were convicted of sexual assault on a 13-year-old boy by the Islamic Tribunal of Mashad, according to ISNA news agency. Ruhollah Rezazadeh, the lawyer for one of the two hanged men, said that his client was under the age of 18. Each of the men was lashed 228 times before being hanged at 10 am (local time) in Edalat (Justice) Square in downtown Mashad. Under the penal code, girls as young as nine and boys as young as 15 can be executed.
    From Iran Focus (warning: link has graphic photos) I oppose state killing for both the guilty and the innocent. I especially oppose it for those with limitations on the ability to reason and comprehend the gravity of their acts, whether due to age, mental retardation or mental illness. With that said, death sentences for rape were not that uncommon just forty years ago in our country and child-rape is still a capital offense in some Southern states. Put another way, they were hanged for rape and not homosexuality, but either way they are dead by the hands of Iranian government. This horribly gruessome act by the government of Iran deserves a strong rebuke and condemnation from the global community.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    The power of pictures is amazing. Personally you could tell me or write that gay people, or any people, were being hung and it would not register as much as a picture. You look at that kids face and it changes everything. Very sad. B

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    Allwrits, thanks for your post, well written and informed. As a regular here and only reading a few of your posts thus far you seem very reasoned and tempered, nice to read your thoughts.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    I'm sure we will never know the facts, if these boys were hanged for rape or for simply being gay. It could easily be a trumped up charge, just as so many black men were hanged for the fictitous rapes of white women in the past.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    I think there's a couple things ALL of us can agree on: 1. Religious fundamentalist governments are not the way to go. 2. If we attack Iran, it won't be to save their gay teenagers.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    soccerdad wrote:
    It is I and many others here who have been morally consistent because we find the killing of all innocents regardless of their country as morally reprehensible. You guys find all sorts of ways of justifying immoral actions by your use of relative moralism. But in fact you are either amoral or immoral by your pronoucements, take your choice.
    Very apt and astute observation, soccerdad, thank you for that. Like you, I am so tired of hearing people justify violence to end violence. Like the Vietnam vets used to say, “Killing for peace makes as much sense as f**king for chastity.”

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    violence to end violence-you mean like in WWII. as opposed to peace in our time. even Neville Chamberlain figured things out eventually-no one here seems to.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#49)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    Wile, Thanks for being unable to understand the subtle difference between the literal and the satirical. And it's satirical because it contains a large grain of truth. Acting in your sixth grade play, genius, isn't quite what I was talking about, but I'll accept you knew the difference. That aside, with parents who were both actors, and growing up backstage at theaters, I was around more openly gay people than you'll experience in your lifetime. But I will take my lumps for being less clear and thought out than I should have been in my initial posts. Which I acknowledged in the second of them. These executions are wretched, we agree on that.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#50)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    All Writs, Iran Focus seems to be the only source that mentions the alleged assault. There is no confirmation that it is true, and the supposed victim has not been identified, so it can hardly be presented as a "fact" signifying that the killings were executions for a rape rather than for homosexuality. In addition, the Iranian members of parliament who rejoiced over the hangings clearly said that homosexuality was being punished, not an assault. --- I am also puzzled why this is not news outside gay publications or websites. Surely this is a basic human rights issue. Today we are all gay.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    Ed wrote: violence to end violence-you mean like in WWII. as opposed to peace in our time. even Neville Chamberlain figured things out eventually-no one here seems to.
    I have figured out that violence only begets more violence. My proof for this lies in the entire history of human beings on this planet. People like me are just trying to get people like you onboard.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#52)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    violence to end violence-you mean like in WWII. as opposed to peace in our time. even Neville Chamberlain figured things out eventually-no one here seems to.
    The Rabid right always revert back to the "glory days" of WW2 whether it makes sense or not.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    From TL's own link: "An Iranian blogger who goes by the name of Mr. Behi, weote extensively on his blog about the executions, describing that the two were convicted of homosexuality." "An Iranian press report explained that the two had been execuited for sexually assaulting a 13-year-old boy." [My emphasis added] "1. Religious fundamentalist governments are not the way to go." Actually, I think the argument could well be made that, if you are being attacked by a significant enemy who is a religious fundamentalist, you must have a similarly religious fundamentalist foundation in order to be strong enough to avoid being slaughtered.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    This is heartbreaking. I hope we can allow more asylum for gay people fleeing fundamentalist countries.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#55)
    by krazycory on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    i think it's the propaganda machine at work. the news will keep bringing stories about iran until G.W. and the boys can create an outrage so that when we invade iran they'll have good reasons.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#56)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    violence to end violence-you mean like in WWII. as opposed to peace in our time. even Neville Chamberlain figured things out eventually-no one here seems to. Where have you been for the last 60 years, one cold war, two conventional wars, about one hundred or so major regional conflicts, and several outright programs of genocide?

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    if you are being attacked by a significant enemy who is a religious fundamentalist
    Minor problem...Iran isn't attacking us. In related news, Iraq wasn't attacking us either, nor did they have a fundie government. Doesn't matter though, if we attack Iran it will be because our good friend and ally, the Likud Party of Israel, told us to.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#60)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    All Writs, sorry you seem to believe I don't know how to look for something on Google. At the time I wrote my earlier posting there was nothing on Google news about this crime. Of course. Nothing on AI's page about latest news from Iran about this: http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iran/index.do. Maybe you have a more up-to-date link. In Canada, we are only too well aware of the murderous arbitrariness of the Iranian "justice" system.
    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    Non-violence works, when it works, when the predominant force in the area is on its side
    Since terrorism is a global problem, and 99% of the world is against terrorism, isn't it plausible a non-violent respone to terrorism would work? I think so. Responding with a bomb, from what I can see, lends creedence to the western agression claims of the crazies, and another kid signs up for martyrdom. A non-violent response just might lead that same kid to the conclusion that the crazies are the bad guys.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#39)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    Well, surely even the most wingnuttiest among you must agree that this is Fred Phelps' vision of America.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#61)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    Iran is a fine example of why we should keep the religious freaks in this country on a short leash: Falwell on gays: "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." Pat Robertson on gays: "[Homosexuals]want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers." Pat Robertson, 700 Club, 1/18/95 - People for the American Way Web site, Gays were behind Hitler “When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved in Adolph Hitler were Satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together.” - 700 Club, 1-21-93 (source: People for the American Way Foundation) Gays are appalling “...What kind of craziness is it in our society which will put a cloak of secrecy around a group of people whose lifestyle is at best abominable. Homosexuality is an abomination. The practices of those people is appalling. It is a pathology. It is a sickness, and instead of thinking of giving these people a preferred status and privacy, we should treat AIDS exactly the same way as any other communicable disease...” - 700 Club, 6-6-88 (source: People for the American Way Foundation) Their bible on gays: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" (Lev 18:22). "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall be put to death: their blood is upon them" (Lev 20:13). Dr. James Dobson on gays: Be warned: If the homosexual "foot and mouth disease" epidemic has not yet arrived in your community, be assured it will eventually get there. And your children are its targets. His estimated listening audience is more than 200 million worldwide; in the United States alone, he appears on 100 television stations each day. He calls for a constitutional amendment to permit prayer in the public schools. He sponsors a group called “Love Won Out,” which holds monthly conferences around the country for those “suffering” from same-sex attraction. He likens the proponents of gay marriage to the Nazis, has backed political candidates who called for the execution of abortion providers, defines embryonic stem-cell research as “state-funded cannibalism,” and urges Christian parents to pull their children out of public-school systems. He has issued warnings to the Bush Administration that his extremist agenda must begin to be implemented in Washington and by the federal courts if the Republican Party wants his continued support. This is only 3 of the hundreds of preachers in the US that would like ot see homosexuals punished for their sexuality. We should look to Iran and learn what disasters await us if these psychotics are allowed their way.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#62)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    "The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." (Pat Robertson direct mail, Summer 1992) Again, do we really want a government like Iran? It is funny to me that most right wing extremist christians despise Iran for its theocracy and lack of freedoms, but support the likes of Hinn, Robertson, Dobson, Swindoll, Schuller, Young, F. Graham etc......A simple google search and it is not hard to find many beliefs that are held in unison with the mullahs of Iran.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#63)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    JL. Gays have desecrated at least two Catholic churches in Canada, with tactics something like Robertson described. "Blood terrorism" was a term coined by a gay activist many years ago when gays were restricted from giving blood. He was referring to spreading AIDS--deliberately--through blood transfusions. I'm sure these guys don't represent the mainstream of gay thinking, but neither does Fred Phelps represent the mainstream of conservative thinking on the subject. However, hyperventilating about the temerity of somebody you don't like to describe what actually either happens or is apparently wished for is bad tactics.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    RA: Gay activists vs Christian Leadership are distinctly different. A gay activist is most likely known in a small circle of peoples or groups, all of the above misfits are representative of the Christian base. If they are not part of the mainstream christian beliefs than you ought to condemn them for their twisting and manipulation of christianity. I condemn any activist that would willing spread the aids vius by ANY means and consider them a psychopath as well. Difference between you and I RA is that I am willing to condemn those on the "left" who are psychopaths, and you refuse to condemn, rather tend to "explain" their positions. All of the above speakers and leaders in the Christian coalition are whack jobs and should not have any influence in government. If they want their followers to protest gay marriage so be it, but I sure as hell do not want any semblance to a government which demonstrates such intolerance, like say Iran. They have their whacked out mullahs, we have Roberston, Dobson and Falwell and Hinn. When I hear you condemn their statements on homosexuality or feminism or any of the intolerant hate they espouse you will have some credibility, until then, you are just another troll to me.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#65)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    JL. Your opinion of me is supposed to be important to me for some reason...? I don't need to condemn stupid statements to generate any cred with you. Your idea of credibility is the facility with which another repeats your comments, so I don't guess I'm interested. The fact is that Robertson was referring to actual facts, although it's possible he hadn't thought of the blood terrorism thing since it goes back a ways, when the lack of hemophiliacs was considered an attack on gays. Poor guys. Like Ryan White was the villain or something. That murderous dentist in Florida always had somebody "understanding" him.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#67)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    PS, RA, methinks you have a few dark skeletons in your closet, perhaps a visit to the confessional booth might help.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#68)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    Fred D.... ...by the way in about 6 weeks 2 to 7 u.s., cities will disappear because of bush. It seems I'm the only one that caught this comment. 2 things Fred...first of all...watch what you say...because if this actually happens people will want to talk to you! and secondly....how is attacking and killing Americans Bush's fault? The radical wing of islam has been doing that for many years now.... long before GW got here!

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#69)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    "Minor problem...Iran isn't attacking us. In related news, Iraq wasn't attacking us either, nor did they have a fundie government." Ernesto, I was speaking in the abstract, in response to your comment which also appeared to be in the abstract. Regardless, my point stands.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#70)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    Al: Here is the AI information from the page you provided:
    On 19 July 2005, an 18-year-old, identified only as A. M. and a minor, Mahmoud A, were publicly hanged in the north-eastern city of Mashhad. According to reports, they were convicted of sexual assault on a 13-year-old boy and had been detained 14 months ago. Prior to their execution, the two were also given 228 lashes each for drinking, disturbing the peace and theft. **** So far this year, Iran has executed at least four persons for crimes committed when they were children including one who is still a child. Amnesty International has recorded 42 executions so far in 2005, but the true number could well be higher.
    Prior to the AI webposting, similiar messages were being circulated on AI & AI-affiliated list-serves.

    Re: Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers (none / 0) (#72)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:32 PM EST
    Patrick wrote:
    Yet we should deal with this kind of extremism with love and understanding right?
    Forgive me if I don't take the moral outcry of a person who would probably jump at the chance to legally define marriage in this country between a man and a woman quite seriously. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses.....

    Iran Executes Two Gay Teenagers | 65 comments (65 topical)