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Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty "Shameful"

By Last Night in Little Rock, Section Social Justice
Posted on Sun Sep 18, 2005 at 08:17:04 AM EST
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by Last Night in Little Rock

CNN.com reports that Pope Benedict XVI's envoy to the U.S. bring $6M in Catholic Charity aid said on Vatican radio "Many were struck by ... poverty, at times shameful, in rich America."

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    Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty "Shameful" | 32 comments (32 topical)
    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#1)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    Oh my - the kettle calling the pot black.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    Preventing people from practicing contraception has been REAL helpful. Thanks, Pete!

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#3)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    I guess it's irresistable to take cheap shots at the Catholic Church. Bigots, plain and simple.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#4)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    here's another cheap shot then: Did the local catholic churches either not notice or not say anything about the level of poverty? Why is it a surprise to the vatican folk? Don't they talk to each other?

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    LLW-Yes I agree, the Catholic Church is biggoted. Good point.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    It isn't bigoted to point out hypocrisy. The Catholic Church has no credibility left after their continuing protection of pedophiles.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#7)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    That's interesting that the new pope is an anti-poverty activist. I wonder what he intends to do about it?

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    Al-no doubt increase the coffers of the church.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#9)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Pedophiles? The dirty little secret that the PC crowd doesn't want out: they're not pedophiles. They're HOMOSEXUALS! That's it.... Pedophiles are attracted to pre-pubescent children, these priests went after teenagers. Admit it. They weren't pedophiles, they were homosexuals going after teenage boys. And Squeaky, is there Anyone or anything outside your own bigotted template you DON'T hate passionately?

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#10)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    LWW -
    I guess it's irresistable to take cheap shots at the Catholic Church. Bigots, plain and simple.
    Bigots - plain & simple, 'pure & simple' As a Catholic, nothing gives me more satisfaction than to point out the shortcomings of the male-dominanted hierarchy that refuses to make the leap into the 21st century or to focus on the Gospel and live their lives accordingly and encourage the same.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    LWW-Gosh I was just getting cuddly wtih you and you go and ruin it. Here is some info about your "gay" friends at the church:The largest study of pedophiles was directed by researcher, physician and psychiatrist Gene G. Abel, M.D., of Emory University School of Medicine, for the Antisocial and Violent Behavior Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health. The landmark eight-year study revealed that, "Molesters often become youth ministers, day-care workers, Boy Scout leaders, teachers, Big Brothers and pediatricians" (Dr. Abel and Nora Harlow, "The Child Abuser," Redbook Magazine, August 1987). They add, "He is often an active Christian who is involved in his church."... Roman Catholic canon attorney Father Thomas Doyle has estimated that about 3,000 Roman Catholic priests are pedophiliac abusers of children (an average of 16 priestly sex abusers per diocese).... The study revealed that Catholic priests were acquitted or dismissed of child molestation charges at a higher rate than Protestant ministers. Similarly, Catholic priests received a higher rate of suspended sentences when convicted, and when sentenced, spent considerably less time in jail Or prison. Seventy-eight percent of convicted ministers were incarcerated with sentences as brief as 30 days in jail to as long as three lifeterms. About 10% received probation only. link from 1992

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Experts in human sexuality have cautioned that homosexuality and attraction to children are different, and that a disproportionate percentage of boys may have been abused because priests were more likely to have access to male targets - like altar boys or junior seminarians - than to girls.
    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Sailor-how sad the Church is deflecting the issue by blaming the rampant pedophilia on gays who are now the convenient focus. They have historically used yellow journalism after researching what the most likely fear is among their target population. They must have done their homework in America, cause gays and the church is a hot issue here and a very clever way to change the dialogue away from pedophelia. PR and spin has been their specialty for at least a millennium, that's how they have managed to stay in buisness for so long.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#14)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    A priest who preys on an altar boy does so from a position of power and control. He uses that power to obtain sexual gratification, not with, but at the expense of another person. He is quite literally, a sexual predator. The sexual relationship is based on fear, and is most certainly not consensual. Independently of the gender preferences of the predator, his behavior is extremely dangerous and causes unspeakable harm. Instead of recognizing the problem and considering how to solve it (here's a hint: Celibacy), the Church protects the offenders, who thus continue to hurt people with the complicity and protection of their bosses. Highly immoral behavior on the part of an institution that claims to have the moral standing to preach to everyone how they should lead their lives.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#15)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Al, I agree with you on certain points but you contradict yourself on others. You say the way to solve it is to waive the rule of Celibacy...they're homosexual. How is waiving celibacy going to change that? You say the relationship is based on fear and not consensual? How do you know that? I went to Catholic school for 12 years and I never was propositioned by a priest (and I was a cute little devil in my day) because they never got any vibes from me that I was interested. Think of yourself at 12,13 or 14 yrs old. If one of those priests put a hand on me sexually I would either have kicked his ass or avoided him for the duration. My mother didn't understand all this until I was grown, then she was mortified. People like me had another problem: we got our asses kicked. I was beaten to a pulp on many occasions for being the smartass non-pliable kid they probably hated. The point I was making was that they're NOT pedophiles. They're frustrated homosexual predators who are a danger (as you said) and should be locked up forever as far as I'm concerned.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    As the Pope sits dressed in his gold plated clothes, eating gourmet food, in his own private little mini nation, he perchance, decides to lift a bejeweled finger and decry the state of poverty in the U.S. Thanx, Pope and friends. And while I'm at it, I think I'll go save Tibet when I get off work tomorrow.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#17)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    The point I was making was that they're NOT pedophiles. They're frustrated homosexual predators who are a danger (as you said) and should be locked up forever as far as I'm concerned. Some ARE pedophiles, so give it up. A pedophile is defined as: 'An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children.' Many are sexually attracted to those who are teens, which can be defined as something else. Others like that 72 year-old former priest in Massachuetts who was murdered in prison & another Paul Shanley are two of the most "prominent" pedophiles whose victims were 12 and under. And for the record there are plenty of female victims as well. We 'know' it's about fear, power & control because THE VICTIMS have stated why they didn't come forward.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Perfect! Someone comments that blocking access to CONTRACEPTION is a cause of poverty. More mouths to feed. And someone points out that out that the pot is as dirty as the kettle. And then LWW opines that such comments are bigotry. The shock of this moral lesson hasn't worn off, when LWW comes back on and tells everyone in no uncertain terms that abusing Catholic priests are HOMOSEXUALS. And since they are, the Church isn't responsible for their actions. The problem is that Not Enough Homosexuals Have Been Killed. Indeed, that there are still homosexuals is the fault of liberals, who think they have a right to choose their sort of sexuality! Who gave the damn liberals THAT idea? Molesting boys in a boys' school -- MY GOD, what will they think of next? That CELIBACY only plan doesn't seem to work very well. So, teach abstinence, and block contraception, and that way you can MAKE MORE TEENAGE BABIES -- and foster molestation by repressed, horny, self-hating priests. LWW is a real aid to enlightenment. And btw, no one should bring up the White House Male Hooker who made so many midnight rides inside the Oval Office that they thought it would be funny to give him a press pass. Don't mention that -- it would be bigotry.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#19)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    The Catholic Church needs supervision by women. As do all the great institutions and governments of the world. We don't have a need to swing our big (or small) d*cks at each other.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#20)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    LWW, "gay" does not equal "predator". The priests who molest children or teenagers are not evil because they're gay, they're evil because they're predators.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    LLW is right in line with the vatacan: Ban all those nasty gays and our problem wil go away, at least the pedophilia media problem. This is a PR campaign direct from vatican central, and LWW is a shill.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    LLW is right in line with the Vatican: Ban all those nasty gays and our problem will go away, at least the pedophilia media problem. This is a PR campaign direct from vatican central, and LWW is a shill.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    And he disappears. LWW is the classic troll. Stir up trouble, express hatred, confuse the issue, and then fail to appear when summoned to defend his words. I suggest he be banned.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#24)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    PIL, For some reason, LWW will never be banned. He hates all religions other than his own, hates many ethnic groups, and certainly hates everyone who posts here. TL has a soft spot for him (god knows why), so dont expect him to be banned, or limited in any way

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#26)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    I don't understand all the outrage being directed against me until I think about what get's ME upset. I get really pissed when someone with a different opinion than me shows me where I'm wrong. In other words the truth hurts. Some in here wil never get it, and I've never said I hated anyone.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#27)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:02 PM EST
    Yeah - say it, Charley!
    when the Church as an institution sells its treasures and distributes the funds to the poor, I'll pay a lot more attention to its critiques
    When I was in Rome and wandering around the Vatican, I was enthralled by so much there - even in the 'basement' & lower level, there are bathtubs dating from prior to & the beginnings of the Roman empire. The ceremonies that in & of themselves are laded with all kinds of antiques, jewels, expensive cloth, and robes are truly sinful. The Vatican has nothing to say to any of us until they start cleaning up their own yard & house.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#28)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Disregarding all the beating up of LWW and not taking sides on any posts about Catholicism, WHY ARE PEOPLE SO SURPRISED THAT MILLIONS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE DIRT POOR? It's been that way forever. That's always been one of our biggest problem b/c rich "enlightened" white people dont pay attention to what goes on in the ghetto, barrio, or trenchtown. Perhaps the Katrina incident will wake people up enough to do something useful about the impoverished in the US.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Roger: "TL has a soft spot for him (god knows why), so dont expect him to be banned, or limited in any way" I don't believe that's true, Roger. I think TL is too busy to keep good track of what trolls like LWW are doing. I think LWW will be reduced to four posts a day, violate that, and disappear. He's well on his way to being another forgotten rightwing WHINER. A troll doesn't exist to actually have views and defend them. They are just there for the grief.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Posted by peacrevol: "Disregarding all the beating up of LWW" Disregarding the hatred and lies spread by LWW, there is always peacrevol, trying the softsoap lie. Bad cop, good cop doesn't work any more, dummy.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#31)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Bad cop, good cop doesn't work any more, dummy.
    If you would notice my post, pauly, I was trying to get past the b/s and make a point. But you carry too much of a grudge against people that you cant get past the fact that someone disagrees with you. You just focus on name calling and fourth grade nuh uh/yuh huh arguments long enough to make a point, much less understand one. For the record, I dont agree with LWW most of the time either, but am not interested in posting things on a thread that is devoting 90% of its energy and space to name calling and petty arguments that are not based on anything in specific except for the fact that you dont agree with someone and feel the need to call him a dummy, liar, whiner, etc. As it turns out though my dear sir, it is you who in the end turns out to look like the whiner when you focus more on the person you are arguing with and less on the point that is being discussed. So in the future, please just stick close to the subject, try not to call so many petty names, and act like you are no longer in the second grade.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:04 PM EST
    Posted by peacrevol: "If you would notice my post, pauly, I was trying to get past the b/s and make a point." You were trying to ignore the issue and play nice. LWW posted his hatred of 'homosexuals,' and you want to bemoan poverty. What a joke you both are. 130,000+ dead in Iraq. Not one WMD. Bush met with Cardinal Ratzinger ONE WEEK before the Card. sent out his Kerry shouldn't get communion hit piece. So the fix was in. Rightwing assistance to Ratzinger's cause was guaranteed from that point. Replacing a Polish pope with a German Hitler Youth -- the ultimate in showing the Catholic Church's long support of FASCISM.

    Re: Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty (none / 0) (#33)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:05 PM EST
    You were trying to ignore the issue and play nice.
    Please notice the title of the thread "Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty "Shameful"" and reread what I posted. You will notice that my statements were directed towards the original point. It appeared to me that you all had made the point clear to LWW, HENCEFORTH, I was moving past that.
    and you want to bemoan poverty.
    And you dont give a sh*t about it. You sir, are rediculous. If you would spend just a little more time trying to make a meaningful statement, and less time calling people names and trying to make yourself look smart by calling people a joke and liars and such, perhaps then we could get somewhere and waste less time.

    Pope's Envoy in Gulf States Says U.S. Poverty "Shameful" | 32 comments (32 topical)