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UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishing Speech

By TChris, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 07:30:33 AM EST
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Update (TL): Crooks and Liars has the video. More from the Village Voice and New York Times.

by TChris

New York City police prevented Cindy Sheehan from finishing a speech she was delivering at Union Square yesterday. They also arrested a rally organizer for failing to obtain a permit before allowing Cindy to use a "sound device" to criticize the president.

"This is what's been happening for the last couple of years," said the co-chairman of the Green Party's Manhattan chapter, Daniel Starling, who attended the rally. "Every time we try to hold a demonstration, they arrest us."

Free speech in New York: you're free to speak when, where, and how the City permits you to speak.

Update: Cindy describes what happened:

"I was speaking and someone grabbed my backpack and pulled me back pretty roughly," Sheehan said, describing the scene at Manhattan's Union Square on Monday. "I was shoved around."

Cindy says she wasn't "roughed up" by the police, but questions whether it was appropriate to use force given the minor nature of the perceived infraction.

"I think their use of force was pretty excessive for someone that didn't have a permit," Sheehan said.

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    UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishing Speech | 24 comments (24 topical)
    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:05 PM EST
    Yep, free speech and peaceable assembly haven't existed in NY for some time...at least absent police harassment. Too many cops with nothing to do.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:05 PM EST
    So much for the right to assemble..free speech....among others.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    From the post:
    They also arrested a rally organizer for failing to obtain a permit before allowing Cindy to use a "sound device" to criticize the president.
    Was the arrest for illegal use of a sound device? I think so. Was the arrest for illegal use of a sound device to criticize the President? I think not.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    If I understand this. You can say what you want in New York City as long as no one can actually hear you. What happened to "imminent danger" as a test for restricting speech? Remembering the Schenck case

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#5)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Jim, Using a sound device results in a summons. The sheehan protest was selected out. Someone told those cops to shut her down because they didn't like her message.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#6)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Oh yeah, Jim. I'm sure people get arrested all the time for using a "sound device" in the noisiest city on Earth. Tell us how the "free speech zones" surrounded by barbed wire and machine guns strategically located 25 miles from a typical Bush speech are great, too.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Perhaps Sheehan should give her speech out of a Mr. Softee truck, because Mister Softee does not need a permit to blare its loud and obnoxious electronic melody ad infinitum. I'd even buy an icecream from her if that would make her free speech legal.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Megaphone use requires permitting in various jurisdictions. That would apply to ice cream trucks, Squeak. Shutting down a public protest is not a new thing -- it happens all the time. But LAWSUITS attend these actions, and it is not uncommon for city authority to order the police department not to create lawsuits in these cases. I'm a protester -- I protest TODAY. And I talk with police on a regular basis. I offer to send their captains and commanders the Bill of Rights and the Supreme Court rulings on free speech if necessary. But that doesn't stop cops from acting on orders, or acting independently, when they are personally offended at the protest. IT IS NOT AN EMERGENCY WHEN THAT HAPPENS. It is NOT the death of free speech. It is just another day of protest, and what the cops find out is that WE ARE RIGHT BACK DOING IT AGAIN THE NEXT DAY, OR ON THE NEXT BLOCK. This is a coup. Capital crimes have been and are being committed. The corruption of the NYPD and the powers that be at city, state, and federal levels, is just a tick on the elephant's back. Come out this Saturday, September 24th, and join MILLIONS of Americans demanding our impeachment rights, and exercizing our free speech rights. If the NYPD thinks Mrs. Sheehan is going away and they can restrict free speech BECAUSE of the speech, as here, they have hundreds of thousands of people who will remind them this Saturday that these are OUR streets. And the courts are open -- Bush will not protect those officers if they step over the line.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Paul-Mister Softee does not need a permit to blare its robotic call. Pro war Bloomberg, who most likely ordered Sheehan's free speech halted, has introduced new noise regulations for NYC. I bet the NYPD will not be so quick to hand out summons to the offensive ice cream trucks as they were with Sheehan:
    - Ice cream trucks, accustomed to inching down city streets bleating out-of-tune childhood ditties, would have to lose their soundtracks by 2006, replacing them with the little bells of yore. (Taco trucks would meet the same fate.)
    It did not really matter whether they had a permit or not as the organizer was arrested even when he did have a permit:
    NYPD arrests Camp Casey NYC organizer(updated) by green in brooklyn Tue Aug 30th, 2005 at 10:14:01 PDT On Monday night, the NYPD arrested Paul Zulkowitz at Camp Casey NYC in Union Square, despite the fact that organizers had a valid permit.
    link

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#11)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Was the arrest for illegal use of a sound device? I think so. Was the arrest for illegal use of a sound device to criticize the President? I think not.
    ppj, what you think is irrelevant. what is relevant is whether or not the restrictions placed by NYC, on public speech, meet the historic requirement that they be narrowly construed to meet a specific, and identified, public safety concern. while the rights embodied in the bill of rights are not absolute, any restrictions placed on them, by any legislative body, have historically been required to meet this burden, in order to withstand judicial scrutiny. in a city of 10 million, with all the normal noise that entails, unless the city can show an unreasonable danger to the public, by allowing the unfettered use of sound devices in public, these rules will not pass that test.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Posted by Squeaky: "Paul-Mister Softee does not need a permit to blare its robotic call." Why do you say that? Sure they do (or should). Permitting of horns is required in many locales. "Pro war Bloomberg, who most likely ordered Sheehan's free speech halted," Hardly. NYPD stops all sorts of things without asking the mayor's advice. If the LAPD tries to shut down my protest, I don't think the mayor is involved. It's the local watch commander who makes that call. Spreading hysteria is not really the same thing as fighting effectively. If you make people believe that the police are part of the conspiracy, instead of ELEMENTS in the police force, then you are creating the circumstances for someone to get HURT. They will shut down protests from time to time. The key is to respond with a call from the lawyers TO the mayor and the Chief. It's not like we started protesting yesterday. We have a long tradition, good laws in place to defend it, and generally the local police agencies are NOT at fault -- FACTIONS within those agencies are. I don't know the NYPD first hand (other than as a tourist), but I have many times had to remonstrate with young protesters who were accusing the LAPD of being part of Bush's conspiracy. They're not -- they're city cops. Some may be in a conspiracy, but the majority are just holding down a dangerous job. Nowadays, the LAPD gives up peace signs as often as not (though not openly).

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Paul-There is no special permit for Mister Softee blaring noise in NYC, period. A quote from our Mayor, who you seem rather fond of, responding to the massive arbitrary arrests during the RNC conventon. Anyone either in the area of Madison Sq. Garden by chance or run of the mill protesters were classified as anarchists/terrorists and arrested: "It is true that a handful of people have tried to destroy our city by going up and yelling at visitors here because they don't agree with their views," Mr. Bloomberg said. "Think about what that says. This is America, New York, cradle of liberty, the city for free speech if there ever was one and some people think that we shouldn't allow people to express themselves. That's exactly what the terrorists did, if you think about it, on 9/11. Now this is not the same kind of terrorism but there's no question that these anarchists are afraid to let people speak out." link

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    et al - Boy, what obtuseness. My point was that the arresy had nothing to do with the subject, and everything to do with breaking the law. Now you don't like the law, I don't like the law, but please, don't start telling me it is selective enforcement. As the good Colonel used to say, "Horse hockey."

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#15)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    All right, squeaky - why do those Mister Softee trucks not need a permit to blare away?

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#16)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Jim, She and her group were singled out. Violently, apparently. Please spare the Judge Dredd rhetoric.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Kitt- because it used to be hand bells that the seller had to ring herself. The mecahnical amplified recording copy, which is much louder and inhuman, slipped in to replace the tedious manual bells, I guess Mister Softee thinks he can make more money and use less labor by using the obnoxious recorded drone; the regulators gave the nod, the police would be too embarrassed to give them a ticket anyway. Due to noise reduction plans by Mayor Bloomberg, the amplified jingle from hell is going to become illegal Jan. as of 2006. Hand bells will have to be used or some mechanical version, no amplification will be allowed. That is why I recommended that CIndy Sheehan do her speech from a Mister Softee truck soon as they are only exempt from the loudspeaker rule for a few more months.
    Current law demands only that no single unit exceed 45 decibels. Existing buildings that are over that level would have to drop 5 decibels. Another revision would allow police officers to write noise tickets without using meters to measure sound. Instead, they would rely on a “plainly audible” standard. The changes would also prohibit any sound that increases the ambient noise inside a residence by 10 decibels during the day and 7 decibels at night and would cover everything from barking dogs to car alarms to ice cream trucks. And Bloomberg made a point of noting that the city receives a large number of complaints about Mister Softee, which operates 250 trucks in the city. But a spokesman for the company said the regulations would seriously hurt business. "There are a small percentage of operators who are not considerate -- they play their song too loud and too long. On the other hand, there is a very vocal minority of residents who object to any kind of sound," Mister Softee Vice President James Conway told the New York Post.
    link
    - Ice cream trucks, accustomed to inching down city streets bleating out-of-tune childhood ditties, would have to lose their soundtracks by 2006, replacing them with the little bells of yore. (Taco trucks would meet the same fate.)
    link

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Well, Squeaky, that is one repugnant quotation. What a rotten, false, obviously STUPID thing to say. As for the noise complaint, this wasn't a bullhorn, it was a PA. If the police had 'warned him repeatedly' then his refusal to respond put people, including Mrs. Sheehan, at risk. It's still not the end of free speech that this one event was broken up after warnings.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Paul-I understand, I was just trying to enlighten up the anti-war dialogue with a little Good Humor.... no they had real bells, I meant to say with a little Mister Softee; a wimpy position but definitely anti-war.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:08 PM EST
    Mister Softee? Has Bush been seen in New York again?

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:08 PM EST
    Che - If you are willing to believe Mrs. Sheehan:
    Cindy says she wasn't "roughed up" by the police, but questions whether it was appropriate to use force given the minor nature of the perceived infraction.
    Wherever you fall on the Cindy Sheehan meter, it's odd to see her being escorted out for a fairly tame demonstration. I know they didn't have the permits,
    The whole thing sounds petty plain vanilla to me.

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    ppj-you are getting so alliterate. Is it Sun Tsu or that Roverer writing correspondence course you have been taking?

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    Paul in LA..LA If you make people believe that the police are part of the conspiracy, instead of ELEMENTS in the police force, then you are creating the circumstances for someone to get HURT This sounds very funny coming from you! Now, I want you to substitute the 'Bush Administration' for the word 'police' and read that again. That's a lesson you should learn dude!

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    slybs-here is a town with your name written all over it. If you do not have the money to relocate I'm sure you can start a collection here. They are waiting for you. Haditha

    Re: UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishin (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    The Bush administration, so-called, has about five participants who cycle through all the jobs. That's because it is a CONSPIRACY. The point I made about the police is a) correct, b) hopefull to prevent people getting hurt. BB, you couldn't care less. Greed has spoiled your soul.

    UPDATED: Police Prevent Sheehan From Finishing Speech | 24 comments (24 topical)