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Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard Reid?

Bump and Update: Two more al Qaeda members Tuesday say Moussoui had no part in 9/11:

In both cases, for security reasons, their testimony was read to the jury because the government did not want them to appear in court.

Waleed bin Attash, often known simply as Khallad, is considered the mastermind of the 2000 suicide attack on the USS Cole and an early planner of the Sept. 11, 2001, plot. He said he knew of no part Moussaoui was to have played in the 9/11 attacks. Another captured terrorist, identified as Sayf al-Adl, a senior member of al-Qaida's military committee, told U.S. interrogators that Moussaoui was "a confirmed jihadist but was absolutely not going to take part in the Sept. 11, 2001, mission."

It sounds more and more like Moussaoui wants death over life in prison.

******
Original Post 3/27

Zacarias Moussaoui testified today that he and Richard Reid were going to fly a plane into the White House. He said it was part of the 9/11 operation but he didn't know the details (such as when it would take place.) Is it the truth or is Moussaoui trying to hand the Government a win so he can die what he believes will be a martyr's death?

One thing that militates against believing Moussaoui's testimony is that Reid was mostly pre-occupied with scouting airline security in Israel and the middle east during the summer of 2001--and traveling between Europe and the Middle East. There is no indication he was planning anything against or in the United States at that time. I'm not done trying to find connections, but several outlining Reid's whereabouts and actions are below the fold.

A second sticking point for Mousaoui is that Shalid Sheikh Mohammed, who gave a 58 page statement from his secret overseas prison where reports are he's been tortured, exonerates Moussaoui for involvement in 9/11. Not suprisingly, he viewed Moussaoui as a loose cannon. The statement was read into evidence at Moussaoui's trial:

In testimony read by a public defender, Shaikh Mohammed said he wasn't aware that Moussaoui was in custody until after Sept. 11, and that Moussaoui's arrest on Aug. 16 would have disrupted Sept. 11 plans if he were a part of the operation.

Shaikh Mohammed also said he wanted all the second-wave hijackers to be Europeans or Asians who might face less scrutiny in a post-Sept. 11 world. But that attack never materialized, he said, because he did not anticipate the ferocity of the U.S. response to Sept. 11 and the only other pilot backed out.

Shaikh Mohammed considered Moussaoui too self-confident and too talkative. He instructed Sept. 11 planner Ramzi Binalshibh to cut off contact with Moussaoui in early August 2001 for fear that Moussaoui would get Binalshibh caught.

On the other side, one thing that lends possibility to Moussaoui's testimony is a report in the London Observer that the MI-5 were monitoring Moussaoui's phone calls in 2000 and they recorded calls between Reid and Moussaoui which abruptly ended on Dec. 9 when Moussaoui went to Pakistan en route to an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan.

The Observer can reveal that MI5 agents intercepted phone calls between Reid and the suspect, Zacarias Moussaoui, which directly linked Bromley-born Reid to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda net work, but did not realise their implication until it was too late. This was condemned last night as a serious breakdown in intelligence.

The calls, made between the pair in Britain and monitored by MI5, ended abruptly when Moussaoui left Britain for Pakistan on 9 December last year to attend an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan. Investigators suspect Reid, who met Moussaoui in London in the mid-Nineties and had been to Pakistan before, followed him to Afghanistan. Moussaoui returned to London last February. Reid reappeared in Britain last summer.

Scotland Yard was not informed of the security risk that Reid posed. MI5 had had Moussaoui under surveillance in the UK in the months before he left for Pakistan. He was then arrested by US authorities in August. However, Reid was not followed or picked up for questioning in Britain.....Investigators are now scouring records of flights between London and Pakistan to see whether Reid and Moussaoui travelled separately or together, and if any other suspect flew with them.

....Al-Qaeda soldiers, interrogated in Kandahar by the CIA, say Reid was a recruit in one of group's camps in southern Afghanistan, and US intelligence sources confirm this. Moussaoui and Reid 'went to the same training camp in Afghanistan where Reid has explosives training' said a US intelligence official.

Another possibly supportive item is that the Court entered an order blocking mail between Reid and Moussaoui in 2003 because the FBI said it contained encrypted messages. And in October, 2002, Reid wrote Moussaoui a letter offering to testify for him.

Washington Post: 8/9/03 (lexis.com)

The FBI has intercepted letters from alleged Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui to convicted "shoe bomber" Richard Reid -- communications that might have contained embedded or coded messages, according to court papers released yesterday.

U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema yesterday denied Moussaoui access to FBI reports supporting the assertion that Moussaoui was trying to pass secret messages to Reid. In the two-page order, Brinkema wrote that Moussaoui is not entitled to "privileged" communications with anyone other than his standby attorneys. Moussaoui, who is charged with conspiring with al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the Sept. 11, 2001, plot to fly hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, has been representing himself in U.S. District Court in Alexandria.

Brinkema wrote in yesterday's order that the rules governing Moussaoui's confinement allow the U.S. Marshals Service and the FBI to seize any incoming or outgoing mail if it is found to contain "overt or covert discussions of or requests for illegal activities [or] the soliciting or encouraging of acts of violence or terrorism."

Federal prosecutors previously said that Reid, who pleaded guilty to trying to blow up a transatlantic flight, wrote Moussaoui a letter in October 2002. Sources have said that Reid, who once worshiped with Moussaoui at a London mosque, offered in the letter to testify on Moussaoui's behalf.

Brinkema ruled that the government properly notified Moussaoui that his letters to Reid were intercepted and that she will not question the government's judgments about the letters. The order did not address the content of the messages, or how FBI agents determined that they might contain codes. The order says that Moussaoui disputes that he was trying to send coded messages.

The same article notes that prosecutors rejected the 5th plane-White House story:

Also yesterday, the Associated Press quoted from a Jan. 30 court transcript in which a prosecutor theorized that Moussaoui was part of a plot to fly a jetliner into the White House. But since Jan. 30, government officials have backed away from the so-called "fifth plane" theory. Sources familiar with the case said yesterday that the theory was based on information from al Qaeda prisoners that is now outdated because other prisoners have contradicted it. Federal prosecutors in Alexandria, in a document written in May and unsealed this week, called the theory about Moussaoui's intentions "at best, an inference."

Associated Press 8/9/2003:

A prosecutor raised the possibility that terrorism suspect Zacarias Moussaoui and additional would-be hijackers may have conspired in a plot to fly a plane into the White House. "It was going to involve others" besides Moussaoui, prosecutor Kenneth Karas said at a Jan. 30 court hearing, according to the transcript released Friday by a judge.

While previous court documents said Moussaoui spoke of plans to crash a plane into the White House, it was unclear how he could do so without help if the 19 hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 attack were committed to four other airplanes.

Karas did not elaborate on the "others" when he mentioned the plot while rebutting defense statements that Moussaoui did not know the objective of al-Qaida's hijacking conspiracy. "The fact that he didn't know the precise whereabouts or even if we can assume he didn't know the names of the people doesn't mean he doesn't know the objects of the conspiracy," Karas said.

....Separately, the FBI apparently determined that a recent letter from Moussaoui to convicted shoe-bomber Richard Reid may have contained embedded or coded messages, according to the newly released court filings.

....While some government officials referred to Moussaoui as the possible 20th hijacker on Sept. 11, prosecutors never referred to him in that role. Karas said on Jan. 30 "the evidence is clear" that Moussaoui had accomplices in the fifth plane plot, although he did not say whether the alleged operation was planned for Sept. 11. Indeed, prior defense filings said Moussaoui contended he was part of a post-Sept. 11 operation outside the United States.

The prosecutor named one of those who provided evidence as Faiz Bafana, a member of Jemaah Islamiya, a Southeast Asian group that Indonesian authorities are investigating in the bombing of a Marriott hotel this week in Jakarta. Moussaoui met with Bafana in Malaysia in 2000 and "talked freely ... about a dream he had to fly an airplane into the White House," defense documents have said. However, the defense lawyers said Bafana did not take Moussaoui seriously.

Agence Presse 8/8/2003:

Separately, Brinkema blocked correspondence from Moussaoui to convicted "shoe-bomber" Richard Reid after the FBI determined the letter could contain "coded messages," the Times report said. Reid was jailed for life in January for trying to blow up a trans-Atlantic flight with explosives hidden in his shoes.

Here's an angry hand-written missive from Moussaoui to the Judge about intercepting his letter to Richard Reid. Here's one of her orders stating the date of Reid's letter was October, 2003. [Moussaoui's motion was entitled, according to the court's docket sheet, "Defendant's Motion to Force Blood Sucker Fat Standby to Hand Over Shoe Bomber Brother Letter to Natural Born Terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui."

As to Reid's whereabouts and actions:

Govt Sentencing Statement in Richard Reid case:

In early July 2001, Reid flew from Karachi, Pakistan, to Amsterdam, the Netherlands. On July 6, 2001, he turned in his existing British passport and obtained a new one at the British Consulate in Amsterdam. On July 12th he flew on El Al Airlines from Amsterdam to Tel Aviv, Israel. He traveled within Israel, and then took a bus to Cairo, Egypt on July 22nd. He stayed in Cairo until July 29th, when he flew to Istanbul, Turkey. He traveled within Turkey, and then flew to Karachi, Pakistan on August 7th. During his trip, Reid focused on El Al security at the airports and aboard his flight. He later claimed that the idea of placing explosives in his shoes came from his observations of El Al security, and the fact that security personnel did not check the insides of his shoes. He also scouted possible bombing missions within Israel and Egypt, including the train station in Tel Aviv. At the end of his
trip, he reported to an associate in Afghanistan that the reception area of the Tel Aviv train station would be a particularly good bombing target, especially on a Saturday night, because it could be entered without being searched and contained at least 100 people at the arrival time of any given train. The report was found in late 2001 on a computer in Afghanistan. (A copy of the Rule 11 transcript page where the defendant admitted that he made the trip and the report is attached hereto as Exhibit D.) (A copy of the English translation of Reid's report is attached hereto as Exhibit E.) Therein, Reid is referred to as Abdul Ra'uff.)

In the letter, Reid writes about a dream he had about a year earlier. In the dream, Reid was waiting for a ride, but when the ride (a pick-up truck) came, it was full and Reid could not go. He was upset and had to go later in a smaller car. Reid
explained the meaning of the dream as follows: "i now believe that the pickup that came first was 911 as its true that i was upset at not being sent."

Reid further stated that he switched his target from Israel to America after America began bombing the Taliban in Afghanistan (in October 2001), which made him very angry. (my emphasis.)

Time Magazine:

In January the Wall Street Journal published an astonishing tale. Journal reporters in Kabul purchased a secondhand computer whose hard drive contained thousands of files written by al-Qaeda members. One file was a detailed account of the travels last summer of "Abdul Ra'uff," who flew from the Netherlands to Israel, Egypt and Turkey scouting locations for terrorist attacks. Abdul Ra'uff's itinerary matched one known to have been taken at the same time by Reid. FBI analysts now firmly believe that Reid and Ra'uff are the same man. Moreover, in the past two weeks, European investigators have linked Reid to some of the best-known terrorist cells on the continent.

By the summer of 2001, Reid was back in London. In July he obtained a new British passport in Amsterdam, claiming that he had accidentally put his old one through a washing machine, and flew to Israel on an El Al flight. Once in Israel, according to security sources there, Reid spent most of his time in Tel Aviv, where he cased the mall and office complex called the Azrieli Center as well as the local bus and train stations. ("Abdul Ra'uff" also checked security at the Western Wall of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.) After 10 days in Israel, Reid crossed into Egypt and from there flew to Turkey and back to Pakistan before being debriefed (if the Journal's Abdul Ra'uff is in fact Reid) in Afghanistan. He didn't stay there long. On Aug. 9, Reid was back in Amsterdam.

Reid and Moussaoui apparently go back a long way, to 1996 or 1997. Overlap at the London Mosque

Another worshiper at the mosque between 1996 and 1997 was Zacarias Moussaoui, a Frenchman who was studying in London. Both Reid and Moussaoui were known to attend services in North London at the Finsbury Park Mosque. That's where the education of Richard Reid, suspected terrorist, evidently began, investigators say.

One would think that financial records could connect the two. How did Reid get the cash for his airline tickets and hotel bills in 2001? Was it from the same person who funded Moussauoi's airline training?

So what do you think? Is Moussaoui trying to save his life with the Reid testimony or help the Government get the death penalty?

Update: News accounts: New York Times; Washington Post; Los Angeles Times

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    He wants to die and be a martyr, that is a good explanation. Might dismiss all appeals a la McVeigh to hurry the process. I recall writings of him in the court file saying he wasn't part of 9/11. No one wants to ask him about the cropduster manual in his possession.

    So Moussaoui is trying to commit suicide (or martyrdom) by jury? Our system really isn't set up to weed out those who claim responsibility for crimes they didn't commit, is it? In any case, that man ain't whole.

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 09:11:33 PM EST
    For someone in his postion a life sentence in an American prison would be much worse than death.

    It's odd how we have a natural suspicion of the testimony of defendants. If Moussaoui would have taken the stand and sworn up and down "I had no idea. I've never seen these guys" we would be calling him a liar until the cows come home. Instead he took the stand and not only confirmed (in large part) the charges against him, but told them in an apparently riveting fashion. And yet we still find a reason to doubt him.

    Moussaoui was incapable of flying a plane let alone hijack one with the failed foot bomber. At least that's what was said so maybe The Failed Foot Bomber was the real Captain who could have flown while Moussaoui could have held the passengers hostage being the foot bomber.

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#6)
    by Lis Riba on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 04:19:35 AM EST
    It's odd how we have a natural suspicion of the testimony of defendants. Even Victims' kin skeptical of latest testimony, so don't try to blame this on liberal softheadedness... Our system really isn't set up to weed out those who claim responsibility for crimes they didn't commit, is it? That's the reason our justice system has an insanity defense.

    I've just heard that Moussaoui is also the Lindberg baby. Developing . . . .

    Posted by Chase Tettleton March 27, 2006 10:55 PM
    It's odd how we have a natural suspicion of the testimony of defendants.
    And yet we still find a reason to doubt him.
    Look, sport. If you don't give a damn about the facts, if you just wanna see somebody die, fine. Just be honest about it for Christ sake. Maybe you're foolin' yourself, but you're not foolin' anyone else. The prosecution didn't convict. If the Jury comes back for death, the guy committed suicide on the stand.

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#9)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 07:16:13 AM EST
    The cells never know their instructions until the last hours. The CIA knows this.

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 08:02:01 AM EST
    Jesurgislac-
    Sentencing him to death will be pure scapegoating the lunatic.
    And life in prison without parole or treatment would be better? Seems to me that Moussaoui is making the right choice here. He may be insane but he is showing good judgement in opting for death over a life of daily torture while serving a life sentence.

    A second sticking point for Mousaoui is that Shalid Sheikh Mohammed, who gave a 58 page statement from his secret overseas prison where reports are he's been tortured, exonerates Moussaoui for involvement in 9/11.
    However, The Mohammed statement does not refute that Mousaoui had knowledge of the attacks before hand. The governments contention is that knowing about 9/11 prior, being an active member of AQ, and not giving up any info about 9/11 that could have prevented the attacks, is reason enough for him to be put to death. I am inclined to agree.

    I am inclined not to be surprised.

    Chase...sez It's odd how we have a natural suspicion of the testimony of defendants. Yes isn't it... Well not ALL of us, but certainly those on the left. Even when the guy admits it...they still have doubts. As I said in another post... If Saddam himself admitted to being part of 9/11...they'd all claim he was drugged or coerced in some way. It's quite laughable really. They have to be this way to keep up their facade. Otherwise their whole being (hate Bush and doubt everything he does) falls apart. Charlie ...sez I am inclined not to be surprised. And what is the point of keeping him alive? I'm interested in your perspective.

    Bush and business care nothing about right or wrong or laws, bush is the enemy of freedom he his helped guys like bin laden for business reasons, and moussaoui like the other guy doing 25 yrs in prison( john walker ) is just one more fall guy for the rat bush and business, hey the usa is dead, if we were really in a war with al qaeda ask why are our borders so opened and why did bush ok over 100,000 people to come here in the last 3 yrs from the mideast? I hate evil guys like Bush who are only about money and power and hate of our freedoms, and bush and business are now doing a scorhed earth dance on all of us for that money and power. (:-( (BUSH THE REAL BIN LADEN)

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#16)
    by Punchy on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 10:03:01 AM EST
    I have a feeling Moussoui may have been tortured extensively, or at least extremely agressively interrogated, especially right after 9/11. He probably sees no hint that this abusive treatment by both guards and fellow prisoners will cease upon incarceration. He's choosing to die quickly rather than slowly and very painfully. Can't say I disagree with his decision.

    They have to be this way to keep up their facade. Otherwise their whole being (hate Bush and doubt everything he does) falls apart.
    Then again, we're not the ones hanging our hats on the confession of a man so crazy even the terrorists cut him loose.

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#18)
    by Slado on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 10:34:58 AM EST
    Here is a perfect example of liberals making huge assumptions in order to believe that the government (IE Bush) is always wrong. Moussaoui is lying, Al Queda is telling the truth and the government is framing an innocent man and knowingly allowing him to lie so he can commit suicide by jury. Yep, makes perfect sense.

    No, Slado, what you've given us is a perfect example of right-wing distortion.
    Moussaoui is lying, Al Queda is telling the truth and the government is framing an innocent man and knowingly allowing him to lie so he can commit suicide by jury.
    Moussaoui has told several different stories that contradict each other in significant details. One must conclude that he lied at some point. Al Qaeda is telling the truth? If you're referring to Shalid Sheikh Mohammed, he's given a lengthy statement under vigorous interrogation. Are you saying that sometimes captives give false information under intense interrogation? That's interesting. Government frame-up? I'll go back through the thread and see if I can find where anybody said that. I don't remember it.

    Fred D.... sez bush is the enemy of freedom he his helped guys like bin laden for business reasons You're rambling again... Link please. why did bush ok over 100,000 people to come here in the last 3 yrs from the mideast Link Please... (BUSH THE REAL BIN LADEN) Yeah... with people like you & attitudes like that, we are doomed as a country. Don't balme Bush...look in the mirror. Punchy....sez I have a feeling Moussoui may have been tortured extensively Sure...why else would he confess...? We obviously beat it out of him. After all...these are nice 'peace loving' people and they don't really want to harm anybody... LMAO! Quaker ...sez we're not the ones hanging our hats on the confession of a man so crazy even the terrorists cut him loose. Nobody is hanging their hats on his confession... remember he has already been tried & convicted (IE - He's GUILTY!), we are just intrigued at the left jumping on his 'band wagon'... although it doesn't really surprise any of us I don't think. It's your M.O. Of course he's crazy... how can a sane person want to commit mass murder? They're all crazy, but that doesn't stop any of you from defending them does it?

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#22)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 02:03:47 PM EST
    BB, Fred rambles, but he doesn't bother anyone here, so leave this one alone.

    we are just intrigued at the left jumping on his 'band wagon'...
    Jumping on his bandwagon? Oh, I forgot. Arguing that it's a bad idea to execute people who demonstrate mental instability and confess to improbable crimes is just the same as "jumping on his bandwagon", right? You're boring, BB. We've all seen this phony sleight-of-hand from right wing shouters too many times now. It's entirely possible--even rational--to take the position that Moussaoui is guilty of a crime and to oppose executing him. Need that explained to you?

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#24)
    by John Mann on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 03:38:06 PM EST
    My personal take is to cover him in pig fat (so he think he will go to hell), then kill him.
    How very American of you.

    Re: Is Moussaoui Telling the Truth About Richard R (none / 0) (#25)
    by desertswine on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 07:12:35 PM EST
    My personal take is to cover him in pig fat...
    I need hip-waders to slog through all the trollsh*t here lately.

    I won't dare to say the two words "pig fat" in Afgan. You know, religious leaders over there want to kill people for saying something like that.
    So might the "democratic government" we're propping up.

    Quaker... It's entirely possible--even rational--to take the position that Moussaoui is guilty of a crime and to oppose executing him.....Need that explained to you? No Lucy..that doesn't need explained to me. As I said in another post...I'd rather see him rot in prison.