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Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefinitely

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:33:24 AM EST
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Time Magazine has an interview with Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte. Those in secret prisons abroad will remain there indefinitely.

Negroponte also told TIME that three dozen or so of the worst al-Qaeda terrorists held in secret CIA prisons are likely to remain in captivity as long as the "war on terror continues." He added, "These people are being held. And they're bad actors. And as long as this situation continues, this war on terror continues, I'm not sure I can tell you what the ultimate disposition of those detainees will be." Negroponte's comments appear to be the first open acknowledgement of the secret U.S. detention system and the fact that captives such as Khalid Shaikh Mohammad -- involved in Sept. 11 or other major attacks on U.S. interests around the world -- may be held indefinitely.

[Hat tip Patriot Daily.]

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    Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefinitely | 35 comments (35 topical)
    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:59:50 AM EST
    C'mon, John, why pay to keep 'em around so long? Just send in the death squads!

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#3)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 11:09:07 AM EST
    If it is up to the liberals, we will probably be discussing his feelings while he plot the next bomb attack.
    Don't be ridiculous. If it is up to the liberals, we'll show the world the evidence against him and we'll prove to the world that his confinement is both humane and just. Got a problem with that?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 11:19:53 AM EST
    Yes we would like him to get in touch with his feelings. How does that make you feel narius? I think somebody needs a hug.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#6)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 11:22:37 AM EST
    Well said, Quaker.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 11:52:27 AM EST
    This is shameful. It dosen't make me me proud that this story is from Britain, is this what the American abroad can now expect as the norm? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4881474.stm TL, I am afraid I do not understand the wherewithall on turning a url into html format. (any chance you can accomadate, and were it not too much trouble, possibly an email telling me how. I would be more than grateful.)

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 12:12:23 PM EST
    Yeah, but where would Bush be without them?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 12:34:54 PM EST
    Ah, nostalgic reverie to days when terrorism was a good thing.
        U.S. Special Forces experts would now provide high-tech explosives and teach state-of-art sabotage techniques, including the fabrication of ANFO (ammonium nitrate-fuel oil) car bombs, to Pakistani intelligence service (or ISI) officers under the command of Brigadier Mohammed Yousaf. These officers, in turn, would tutor thousands of Afghan and foreign mujahedin, including the future cadre of al-Qaeda, in scores of training camps financed by the Saudis. "Under ISI direction," Coll writes, "the mujahedin received training and malleable explosives to mount car-bomb and even camel-bomb attacks in Soviet-occupied cities, usually designed to kill Soviet soldiers and commanders. Casey endorsed these despite the qualms of some CIA career officers."
    from Mike Davis' Car Bombs With Wings: A History of the Car Bomb (Part 2) Pretty interesting racket terrorism, isn't it. Negroponte has lots of time on his hands to reflect on the subtle difference between good terrorists and bad ones.
    On many a workday lunchtime, the nominal boss of U.S. intelligence, John D. Negroponte, can be found at a private club in downtown Washington, getting a massage, taking a swim, and having lunch, followed by a good cigar and a perusal of the daily papers in the club's library.
    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#11)
    by Al on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 12:36:44 PM EST
    Narius, even Israel tried Eichmann. They sent some agents to Argentina, kidnapped him, took him to Israel, put him behind bulletproof glass and tried him. Then they gave him a bottle of whisky and hanged him. They could do this because they could prove the charges against him. The only reason why the US does not charge people with terrorist acts is because they can't make those charges stand up in any reasonable court. You have to wonder why not. I mean, if a guy really is a terrorist, it should be possible to prove it. The problem is incompetence, pure and simple. The people in charge of finding terrorists and bringing them to justice are the military. And the military just do not have the training or the skills necessary to do it. It's like asking the military to do dental work. They are trained to win regular battles with tanks and stuff. Which they do very well, except that the enemy refuses to fight that way. If there is a war on terror -- a big "if", I must say; all I see is costly invasions of countries that happen to have a lot of oil -- then the war on terror is definitely not being won, and that's because of sheer incompetence. All your bluster about how evil the prisoners are is just to hide the fact that you have absolutely no idea what to do with them.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#13)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 01:59:53 PM EST
    No problem at all if that is what the liberals will do. Oh, does "humane" includes discussing his feelings?
    If doing so will bring a few more countries to our side, why not?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#14)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 02:33:05 PM EST
    Squeaky - Big kudos on that Mike Davis link. Sorry if I was giving a hard time the other day.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 02:48:10 PM EST
    jondee-
    Sorry if I was giving a hard time the other day.
    Your abundance of good will is what stays with me. Besides, debate is a good thing especially among friends.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 03:53:10 PM EST
    Iraq is certainly a big big mistake.
    Isn't this the same guy who sez 'off with their heads' at every opportunity? Jeez, if bush lost this guy his empire must truly be in trouble.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 04:28:46 PM EST
    Sailor-
    if bush lost this guy his empire must truly be in trouble.
    Good point. The trolls do have their function here. Bedwetters as bellwethers, nice ring to that..... or are they more like the canaries in the coal mine?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 04:40:18 PM EST
    Oscar Wilde:
    I am afraid I do not understand the wherewithall on turning a url into html format. (any chance you can accomadate, and were it not too much trouble, possibly an email telling me how. I would be more than grateful.)
    Heres what you do: 1. Type in the word or phase that you want to associate the link with. In this case, I think you wanted: Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism' 2. Copy the corresponding link (URL) to your clipboard. Open another browser window to do this, because you want to leave the one showing the comment box alone. (In Windows, I use the keys Ctrl+C to copy). 3. Select the word or phrase to be associated with the link using your mouse (holding down the left button while you move the mouse across the desired word(s)). 4. Clock on the "URL" button above the comment box. 5. A dialog box will appear. Paste into it the link you earlier placed on the clipboard, and hit Enter. (In Windows, I use the keys Ctrl+V to paste). 6. In your comment, HTML code will magically appear, surrounding your selected text. When you preview it, the result should look like this: Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism' Hope this helps!

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 04:40:40 PM EST
    Squeaky - I have noticed that you mention "bedwetters" quite a bit. Do you have a problem that you are trying to talk about? Al - Your problem seems to be that you think that terrorists and other guerrilla types are supposed to receive the same type of trial that is provided for US citizens. It isn't true, Al. Historically they were hanged when captured. That we are not doing so speaks well of us.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 04:59:35 PM EST
    ppj-
    Squeaky - I have noticed that you mention "bedwetters" quite a bit. Do you have a problem that you are trying to talk about?
    Yes. Not trying though, but using a very clear and descriptive metaphor. Sorry to confuse you with such a complex literary device, but.... well...for more info go here. If you still do not get it try google.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 05:00:50 PM EST
    Bedwetting bellweathers, Dukestir caught lying, Canaries are singing in courts that are trying, The 7 general's amass saying cheney's an a$$, These are a few of my favorite things! Squeaky, I guess it did have a ring to it;-)

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 05:11:04 PM EST
    good one Sailor! The cunning linguist strikes again. One addition could be: ...Canaries are singing in courts that are trying, While birds of that feather in coal mines are dyin' The 7...

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 05:41:36 PM EST
    Squeaky writes:
    (you quote me)Squeaky - I have noticed that you mention "bedwetters" quite a bit. Do you have a problem that you are trying to talk about?
    And you answer.
    Yes.
    Hmmm. Okay. Good luck in finding proper treatment.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 05:54:13 PM EST
    this war will never end and for a good reason the rulers like it, in fact it keeps our little minds off of what is happening here. "War on terror continues", until the cows come home and eat us all.(:-( put bush in iraq and have him attack iran that would be fun to watch. but sadly he is doing business with the mexico city drug dealers he needs the money and selling out is his game.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 05:59:53 PM EST
    Squeaky - Dont mind him, its a topic he's a little touchy about. Apparently the Reagan nite lite didnt completely solve the problem.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#26)
    by aw on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 08:50:10 PM EST
    You really are finally out of excuses, aren't you, PPJ?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:24:39 PM EST
    Yes. Not trying though, but using a very clear and descriptive metaphor. Taking things out of context again or?????: PPJ doesn't do metaphors, there's too much 'nuance' involved in the process.......

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#28)
    by Al on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:51:24 PM EST
    PPJ:
    Al - Your problem seems to be that you think that terrorists and other guerrilla types are supposed to receive the same type of trial that is provided for US citizens.
    What do you mean, problem? I don't have a problem with anybody getting a fair trial. You're the one who has a problem with that. Because of, you know, incompetence. In a proper trial, if you can't bring evidence against the accused, he walks. There certainly was no problem in bringing the Nazi war criminals to trial after the war. Why do you think they weren't summarily executed?
    It isn't true, Al. Historically they were hanged when captured.
    Not this again. Give me one example that has nothing to do with the Battle of the Bulge. We've been over that one.
    That we are not doing so speaks well of us.
    No, you're not hanging them because you can't, not without a proper trial. Don't tell me you're nicer than the Israelis.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:55:03 PM EST
    DA:
    PPJ doesn't do metaphors, there's too much 'nuance' involved in the process
    So what was this comment of his about then? If in Jim's judgement "evidently my comment was too nuanced for you," I guess I must be at the very bottom of the nuance-awareness rankings here. Maybe I will just creep away and hide in my nuanceless shame. I guess that's what I deserve for being a mathematician, eh? No nuance for me, eh! But isn't my ability to detect Jim's unwillingness to reason logically worth something?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 06:10:16 AM EST
    PPJ doesn't do nuance any more than he does facts, evidence, truth, morality, law, justice, music, art, film, literature, History - ancient, modern, world, US, military, you name it, or baseball, metaphor, science, journalism, science, or anything of truth or substance. I'm sorry, on second thought, I should've just said Jim doesn't do reality and left it at that. Less is more. Brevity is the soul of wit and all that. You wingers want blood, fine. We should have a package deal. KSM and Negroponte. Bin Laden and Bush. Two Chairs- No waiting. Cheney and Ahmadinejad. Vince McMahon and his WWE can make it a Steel Cage Death Match and Put it on Pay per View. That's the consummate American Experience. Tacky, trite, and some lowlife makes a buck. Cue Lee Greenwood. Metaphorically speaking.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#31)
    by cpinva on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 08:19:52 AM EST
    sorry, took me a while to stop laughing. jim and nuanced in the same sentence qualifies as an oxymoron, or perhaps just a moron. beats me. narius, either terrorists are criminals, in which case they should receive due process, and be tried in a court of proper jurisdiction, or they're POW's, subject to the geneva conventions. there really is no legitimate middle ground, in spite of the administration's attempts to the contrary. if a criminal, charge them and try them, using proper evidentiary procedures. as noted above, that isn't really what our military does, or should do. had these people been active terrorists, seems like they'd have been killed or captured in combat. most weren't. i've no doubt many of the detainees are wastes of good carbon and oxygen, and should spend the rest of their scummy little lives behind bars. it's up to us to prove it to the world.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#32)
    by svolich on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 12:59:10 PM EST
    Iraq is certainly a big big mistake. We should have gone after Iran or North korea instead. Now that we have lots of bases surrounding Iran, the invasion will be a LOT easier. either terrorists are criminals, in which case they should receive due process, and be tried in a court of proper jurisdiction, or they're POW's, subject to the geneva conventions. Not at all. In order to be POW's under geneva they have to be legal combatants. That means, among other things, they have to wear uniforms, be part of a command structure, not use civilians as shields or hostages. These guys didn't do any of those things. They are illegal combatants. Remember the WW2 films where they say "if you're caught not wearing a uniform they'll shoot you as a spy?" That's the same thing. We can legally do ANYTHING to an illegal combatant. Welcome to war. As to trying people like KSH in court - you think that our rules of evidence are going to work? Like, did we have an arrest warrent when we kicked down that door? Was it signed by an American judge? Was it based on legally obtained evidence, with a warrant also signed by an American judge? (the answer to all the above is no) Once the ACLU got hold of him he'd be out in 30 day, and working with Iran to put a nuke on a pleasure boat in San Francisco bay.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 01:27:21 PM EST
    I didn't know they were doin' a remake of fantasy island.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#34)
    by john horse on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 03:47:07 PM EST
    Just as important as having a fair trial is having a speedy trial. After all, this was written in the Sixth Amendment to our Constitution. Don't rightwingers have any respect for the institutions of our country? Why do they hate America?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#35)
    by Al on Sun Apr 16, 2006 at 12:41:04 AM EST
    Svolich, this may come as a shock, but films are generally not regarded as solid legal precedent. And no, the Geneva Conventions do not define "legal combatants". The third Geneva Convention describes who is considered to be a POW (wearing a "distinctive sign" is one possibility among several). And then it says:
    Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
    Sorry, no impromptu firing squads or lynch parties. Or force feeding, or sleep deprivation. Competent tribunal.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2006 at 07:16:43 AM EST
    Al - Thank you for making my point. As you note, the sentence begins:
    Should any doubt arise...
    That is what is known as a qualifier. It establishes the intent, or purpose, of the sentence. We are to determine if there is any doubt. Then, as you copied, we have:
    ...belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4,...
    This provides the definition. We are to determine if the person meets the requirements of Article 4. Then, as you copied, we have:
    ....such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
    This is called a remedy. Simply put, if the qualifier is met and if the definition is met, the remedy applies. Now, having established the question, we know that: There is no doubt that the people involved do not meet the definitions in Article 4. No doubt arises. So they do not meet requirements for a tribunal. That we are giving some speaks to our desire to be fair.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 16, 2006 at 07:49:34 AM EST
    Jim, once again, your only point is that you have no point. Death Squad Johnny should be in the slam with all the other Iran-Contra scum. Crap Weinberger should've died in there like the organized crime figure he was.

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 16, 2006 at 09:35:16 AM EST
    charlie - Want some cheese with that whine?

    Re: Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefin (none / 0) (#39)
    by Al on Sun Apr 16, 2006 at 09:38:49 AM EST
    PPJ, have you actually read Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention? It's too long to reproduce here, but for example POW's may be
    Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
    A good case could be made that this applies to the detainees in Guantanamo. You may disagree; but the decision is to be made by a competent tribunal. But you are afraid that a competent tribunal would disagree with you. And of course, the other important issue is that not being included in Article 4 is not a license to torture.

    Negroponte: Detainees to Be Imprisoned Indefinitely | 35 comments (35 topical)