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Haditha Update

by TChris

When did the president learn that Marines may have murdered civilians in Haditha?

The White House said Thursday that it took nearly a month for President Bush to learn that the military was investigating reports that Marines murdered unarmed civilians in Iraq.

How did the president learn about the deaths in Haditha?

On Tuesday, White House spokesman Tony Snow said President Bush learned of the killings only after a reporter from Time magazine asked questions.

What is the U.S. doing in response to the deaths?

The top U.S. general in Iraq on Thursday ordered American commanders to conduct ethical training on battlefield conduct following reports that Marines massacred unarmed civilians in the town of Haditha.

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    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:10:51 PM EST
    When will the right wingers attack Bush like they did Murtha... After all, if you admit that marines might have been involved in a civilian massacre, then you hate the troops...right? Oxycontin for all!

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:24:39 PM EST
    On Tuesday, White House spokesman Tony Snow said President Bush learned of the killings only after a reporter from Time magazine asked questions.
    Where's Rumsfeld.Is he part of the chain of command.Shouldn't Rumsfeld be held accountable and made to answer reporters questions first or does he have the usual lifetime exemption of discord and inhumane forms of practice against war prisoners and Iraqi civilians and could have been terrorists

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#3)
    by aw on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:24:44 PM EST
    The grownups are in charge. God have mercy on us all.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#4)
    by desertswine on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:37:48 PM EST
    That George is really on top of things, huh? Well it's nothing a little sensitivity training won't cure.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#5)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 01:21:16 PM EST
    To the WH this is nothing more than a PR problem. The neocons dont even care about American deaths never mind Iraqi deaths. Ethical training is a joke. Putting these overextended soldiers in such a bad sitaution without a clear plan and enough troops is the real problem. Once again the military knowing, in operational terms, only how to fight conventional wars fails once again at asymetric warfare. This is compounded bt the constat barrage of hate by the right's mouthpieces constantly reinforcing the idea that Iraqis are subhuman.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 01:52:46 PM EST
    SD: Must havwe missed it:
    This is compounded bt the constat barrage of hate by the right's mouthpieces constantly reinforcing the idea that Iraqis are subhuman.
    Got any links?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#7)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:01:56 PM EST
    Wilie don't you listen to Rush, Pat Robertson, Malkin, Savage, O'reilly, Norman Podhoretz, etc etc etc

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:27:28 PM EST
    Soccerdad...sez don't you listen to Rush, Pat Robertson, Malkin, Savage, O'reilly, Norman Podhoretz, etc etc etc Yes... and none of them ever say anything that even remotely comes close to ..."constantly reinforcing the idea that Iraqis are subhuman". Where do you come up with this stuff? (nevermind...that's a rhetorical question... I already know the answer) Didn't you accuse me (in another Blog) of of being a..." fascist propagandist spewing slogans and no facts". I'd say your last comment is right up in that same catagory... Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:33:23 PM EST
    "Didn't you accuse me (in another Blog) of of being a..." fascist propagandist spewing slogans and no facts". Damn him, he left out cretin.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:42:52 PM EST
    SD: I do listen to those on occassion. I also listen to Airamerica. Show me a link. I have never heard one utterance like that. I am sure if one said something like that the blogoshere would have picked it up in an instant. So a link would be a piece of cake to find. You cannot back up your statements. What a suprise.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#11)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 03:06:14 PM EST
    Limbaugh - Limbaugh wondered what the fuss was all about, since the photos from Abu Ghraib "look like standard good old American pornography." he agreed with one caller that the prison abuse was similar to a fraternity prank. "Exactly my point!" Limbaugh growled in his endearing baritone, comparing it, himself, to a "Skull and Bones" fraternity initiation. Hinting at the designs of the liberal establishment, the radio host bemoaned: "We're going to ruin people's lives over it and we're going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them (the abusing soldiers) because they had a good time." In his May 11 and May 12 radio show Savage Nation, Michael Savage called Arabs "non-humans" and "racist, fascist bigots." The Clear Channel syndicated radio host later asserted that Americans should "drop a nuclear weapon" on a random Arab capital, and that "these people" in the Middle East "need to be forcibly converted to Christianity" in order to "turn them into human beings." Without skipping a beat, Savage on May 14 downplays Iraqi prisoner abuses at the hands of American military personnel: "I think it's a very good policy, and the more I learn about it I think that it made good sense. . . . Use little women in particular. Little, ugly women. And let 'em take big strapping Iraqis and put 'em on leashes naked. . . Get police dogs to bark at naked Iraqis, until they crack . . . " link so f**k off

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 03:11:40 PM EST
    SD: I agree with you about Michael Savage. I fail to see the rest of the talks calling them sub-human. See how easy it is to include links? Would have shut me up faster.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 03:22:45 PM EST
    wile, now that he showed the links, will you admit that you and your ilk get a voyeuristic sexual thrill from the murder of civilians? It makes up for the tinyess of your manhood.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#14)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 03:37:03 PM EST
    Nat Parry writes: "However, Bush's conservative base continues to bluster against the idea of any constraints on U.S. actions abroad. Right-wing Fox News commentator Bill
    O'Reilly referred to Iraqis as a 'prehistoric group' and advocated that we 'bomb the living daylights out of them.' Earlier, during the siege of Fallujah, O'Reilly used his radio program to urge the military to 'level' the city. 'We know what the final solution should be,' he said, leaving listeners to wonder whether he meant a nuclear strike."
    link
    MSNBC's Imus in the Morning offered derisive, racist commentary about Palestinians during the November 12 funeral of deceased Palestinian Authority leader Yasser Arafat. Regular Imus guest and sports anchor Sid Rosenberg referred to Palestinians as "stinking animals" and suggested: "They ought to drop the bomb right there, kill 'em all right now." On November 19, the program broadcast a radio segment featuring a guest -- parodying General George S. Patton, Jr. -- who said that the recent report of a U.S. Marine shooting an unarmed, injured Iraqi insurgent provided the enemy "with another cozy 'al Jazeera moment' for the Muslim masses to respond to with their routine pack-of-rabid-sheep mentality." The guest also referred to a deceased Iraqi insurgent as "a booby-trapped raghead cadaver."
    link
    Asked whether he favored any policy changes in Iraq, Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) responded: "We need to have a different mix of troops, is the key. We may need to move some troops around"... In a sign of frustration, he offered an unorthodox military solution: "If we have to, we just mow the whole place down, see what happens. You're dealing with insane suicide bombers who are killing our people, and we need to be very aggressive in taking them out."
    link

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 04:17:44 PM EST
    BigUnit12 - Well, the link brings back the Micahel Savage bit, and the Limbaigh bit, but the rest is just claims. Come on SD, show us some links that say they are subhuman. Inquiring minds want to know.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 04:43:32 PM EST
    ppj sez
    Come on SD, show us some links that say they are subhuman.
    Regular Imus guest and sports anchor Sid Rosenberg referred to Palestinians as "stinking animals"
    'Stinking animals' I would say qualifies as subhuman, unless ppj suddenly joined PETA;-) But of course ppj is just displaying the constant wrongwinger tactic of attacking a tiny detail to distract from the point. They keep wanting to argue about the meaning of 'is' when the 'is' in question means Marines commiting an atrocity.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#17)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 07:07:43 PM EST
    Now I get ppj's problem
    humanity does not transcend nationality.
    IOW, he doesn't think other nationalities are human.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 07:21:12 PM EST
    Bush had his shock and awe, PPJ has his schlock and bore

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 08:26:52 PM EST
    Sailor - Well, were are the links? A statement was made, the statement was called, and, per usual, the statement can't be covered. So what does Sailor do? Sailor tries to change the subject with an insult added for good measure. Come on SD, show us the links. Uh, you wouldn't be funning us would you? Like, you don't have any? Sailor - Love your insult, again proving that you cannot engage in an up and up debate. BigUnit12 - And your comment is? Oh, you think an insult is a comment? Uh, no. It isn't. et al - Just found this over at CNN
    But there is an intriguing variation in Eman's account the third time she tells it. She says she was expecting the bomb. WALID (through translator): I was planning to go to school. I was about to get out of bed. I knew the bomb would explode, so I covered my ears. The bomb exploded. The bomb struck an armored vehicle. I don't know if it was a Humvee or an armored vehicle. When the bomb exploded, they came straight to our house. CHILCOTE: The question is, was her expectation of the explosion a premonition, a fear based on the sound of the passing convoy? Or was it based on some knowledge? The interviewer does not follow up. He says the 9-year-old got confused and got her story mixed up.
    Now, did she know, or didn't she know? And if she knew, would not have other adults have known? You can also say that, even if they did, the Marines should have done nothing. You can also say that, even if they did, they were too frightened to say anything because the terrorist will kill them. I opt for the last. And that defines the problems we have with dealing with terrorists. You have to convince the populace that are better off worrying about the terrorists than us. Now that's hard to do given our history of withdrawals, the constant criticism by the Left, etc., etc.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#20)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:01:50 PM EST
    ppj - Express a sentiment that proves that you arnt subhuman. You know, something other than whimpering with defference at fearless leaders every whim; all that does is put you in the same league with wild dogs. Now roll over and let little shrub scratch that belly. Atta boy. Its just a shame you couldnt have been there after that explosion; Im sure you would have put that little nine-year-old terrorist outa her misery. And her grandmother - if she was still moving - too. Battle hardened guys like you always have the grim resolve to do what needs to done, dontcha?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:19:50 PM EST
    By soccerdad:
    This is compounded bt the constat barrage of hate by the right's mouthpieces constantly reinforcing the idea that Iraqis are subhuman.
    Give me one example or retract your ridiculous statement.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:27:37 PM EST
    Posted by Jondee June 1, 2006 10:01 PM ppj - Express a sentiment that proves that you arnt subhuman. You know, something other than whimpering with defference at fearless leaders every whim; all that does is put you in the same league with wild dogs. Now roll over and let little shrub scratch that belly. Atta boy. Its just a shame you couldnt have been there after that explosion; Im sure you would have put that little nine-year-old terrorist outa her misery. And her grandmother - if she was still moving - too. Battle hardened guys like you always have the grim resolve to do what needs to done, dontcha?
    Jondee, did you even read PPJ's post? Your comments are so completely detached from what he wrote that they make no sense. Can you show me where he suggested killing the girl?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:38:18 PM EST
    He's been making excuses for the killing of girls like that since the start of the invasion. What are you his lawyer? Excuse me if I dont give a sh*t what you think about the way I respond to ppj's posts. You got anything to add to the discussion other than quit being mean to my fellow trolls?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#24)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 12:54:29 AM EST
    ppj asking for proof that they were portrayed as subhuman is like Himmler asking for proof that the Jews were slandered.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#25)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 02:48:29 AM EST
    Gee yet another incident of killing civilians and then lying about it.
    The BBC has uncovered new video evidence that US forces may have been responsible for the deliberate killing of 11 innocent Iraqi civilians. The video appears to challenge the US military's account of events that took place in the town of Ishaqi in March.
    LINK

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#26)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 03:06:59 AM EST
    As the rational people here understand the subhuman claim refers to the process of dehumanizing the Iraqis of which PPJ is a fine example here of someone who engages in such activity.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 03:11:00 AM EST
    For the next 30 days, they would receive lessons in "core warrior values", a military statement said.
    The Rumsfeld Pentagon version of "core warrior values"" Kill 'em all, let the wingnuts spin.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 03:11:19 AM EST
    A few sadists" - or a nation of sadists? That's what this whole question boils down to: have we become so corrupted by ambition and blinded by self-righteousness that we have spawned an army of baby-killers? And are we going to make weak excuses for them - by crying over the amount of "stress" the poor dears have to endure - or will we face the truth, about ourselves as well as them? The ugly truth is that we have been corrupted by dreams of empire: our foreign and military policy of "preemption" is the doctrine of a swaggering bully. To claim preeminence on every continent, to strut and preen on the world stage and demand applause at gunpoint, this is evidence of a collective mania, a severe psychological affliction, and, I might add, a mortal sin - the sin of hubris. We imagine that we are, like Nietzsche's "overman," beyond good and evil: acts that would be judged harshly if done by others become, in ourselves, evidence of unsurpassed virtue. Yes, our soldiers commit atrocities - but they are being investigated and prosecuted, aren't they? Well, that remains to be seen, but, in any event, what this argument misses is that our policy of untrammeled aggression requires terroristic tactics. If we don't have the stomach to kill women and children, then we had better turn back now. Because there is no nice way to be a global hegemon. We either give up the role, or else resign ourselves to many more Hadithas.
    Link

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#29)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 03:15:13 AM EST
    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:15:52 AM EST
    Bigunit12: You've been talking to my wife! But you have have fallen into the progressive trap of belittling people who do not agree with you in order to feel superior to them.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:20:21 AM EST
    Jondee - Good Morning! Ah, such a deal. Let me see, I quote an article from CNN and you spew venom. What a treat. I love to watch you go out of control and make a bunch of really dumb statements. First, after the obligatory starting insults you demonstrate you have no argument. Let's go back and examine what I wrote. First there is the link which gives context. The link isn't to a blog, but to CNN, which is probably why you didn't read it. Secondly I quote the important part, which is that the girl makes a statement that indicates that she knew about the IED in advance. Now that was not pursued, and it is noted that she was "confused." Was she? Most likely, and the investigator did right by leaving it alone. I speculated that if she knew, the adults knew. Should they be questioned? Yes. That indicates a lot of things and tells us a lot of things. But note that I say that does not excuse the Marines. They should have done nothing. Did you read the above Jondee? Because it makes your statement:
    Its just a shame you couldnt have been there after that explosion; Im sure you would have put that little nine-year-old terrorist outa her misery
    ...obviously inaccurate and proves that you don't read, but just make up wild claims that have no basis in reality, and proves that anything you write or claim must be looked at with a jaundiced eye and a million grains of salt. I then make the important point even if they did they were probably too frightened of the terrorists to say anything. I then say that the problem for the Iraqis is now, who do you trust. Are the Americans strong enough to stay? And how do you convince them that we are, given our history and given what the Left is saying? So, where is your response to these questions and thoughts, Jondee? Can you do anything but insult? Are you really so slow that you don't understand that I welcome your insults because they prove my point and demonstrate to the world that the Left has a fringe to it that is to be pitted but not trusted and certainly not paid a lot of attention to. So keep at it Jondee. I know it makes you feel good, and I know you love dancing on the small stage of your friends, so indulge yourself. Make things up, call me nasty names. Make my point for me. Please. Dance for me, Jondee. Dance.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:20:47 AM EST
    BU12: on this site.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:24:04 AM EST
    SD - I asked for some links and you claimed to have them. Yet you have not provided them. I there for must conclude that you have made a false and misleading statememt.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#34)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:30:15 AM EST
    Shorter PPJ (PCB), The girl may have known about the IED so her killing MAY have been justified. Keep scraping.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:49:18 AM EST
    Soccerdad... Come on SD, show us some links that say they are subhuman You made the comment that ALL Iraqis were said to be subhuman.. I content that the ones (from whatever country) that strap bombs to themselves and try to take out as many innocent people as they can...are subhuman! Tell me you disagree with that? Nice link about yet another American military atrocity... However it doesn't get into the details of just how the BBC got this info other than to admit.... "The pictures came from a hardline Sunni group opposed to coalition forces". DUH! And it also doesn't mention how much time they had to "edit" these tapes to show whatever they want them to show. As has been said...given enough time to edit, ...I could make Frank Sinatra sing & dance again But that's ok.. people like you will jump on this as FACT... giving our enemies the benefit of the doubt instead of our own military... You people really are sickening!! How did you come to hate America so much...? Is that all GW's fault or have you been carring this hate around for some time?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#36)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:09:40 AM EST
    Sailor - Well, were are the links?
    A statement was made, the statement was called, and, per usual, the statement can't be covered. So what does Sailor do? Sailor tries to change the subject with an insult added for good measure.
    the links were in the article directly above, and then listed again later by SD. It isn't an insult to call a liar a liar, you consistently said there were no links when they were there all the time. ppj says:
    humanity does not transcend nationality.
    IOW, he doesn't think other nationalities are human. It's exactly the same subhuman points made by all the wrongwingers that SD linked to multiple times. the shrill squealing and projecting on others what their own faults are is a sure sign of the wrongwinger.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#37)
    by aw on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:15:35 AM EST
    You will never post enough links for PPJ. Never. He doesn't want to know.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:17:35 AM EST
    Having been proven wrong the wrong wingers resort to parsing misdirection and making false acqusations. Too bad lying isn't a bannable offense, PPJ would be long gone.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:23:00 AM EST
    "I content that the ones (from whatever country) that strap bombs to themselves and try to take out as many innocent people as they can...are subhuman! Tell me you disagree with that?" I contest that people who do this have mo other weapons, if they had warplanes or tanks, thet'd use those instead. But, I do have my prejudices, since I consider BB to be subhuman.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:14:42 PM EST
    Et al - SD's claim was:
    This is compounded bt the constat barrage of hate by the right's mouthpieces constantly reinforcing the idea that Iraqis are subhuman.
    For proof he provide a link to CommonDreams, a leftist blog who writes:
    Still, for several weeks now, right wing radio talk show hosts, like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage -- who dominate the airwaves and much of the political debate across the American heartland -- have been hammering home the idea that our enemies are far more inhumane than anyone on the U.S. side.
    Note he doesn't claim "subhuman," but "inhumane." The gap between the two words is immense. You would say that the bedheading of Nick Berg was inhumane and be correct. Perhaps that is why the author used it. CommonDreams does make one claim that rings true. "Non-Human" by Savage is close to "sub-human." However, he provides no proof, although a link should have been easy to obtain, and given the serious of the charge and the fact that it is one of the main legs of his argument, should have been. We are then treated to a list of nasty, mean talk by various people. None approaches the level of making Iraqis "sub-human." One, the comment by Rosenberg on Imus, is not even about Iraqis. Sailor take note. Would you like to admit your mistake or just stonewall it? So my point remains. Show me some links. In the meantime, you like to talk about liars? Me, I'll just say you have came close with inaccurate claims. Now, if I knew that you knew they were inaccurate, as you claim Bush did, I'd lay the big "L" word on ya.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:39:19 PM EST
    ppj - Considering your constant warmongering and cheerleading for "regime change" - which cant be carried out without tens of thousands being killed, maimed, and traumatized - its obvious that human life in itself and the goal of preventing suffering holds little inherent meaning for you. The question of whether anyone uses the exact word "subhuman" is irrelevant when the persons actions betray a consistent devotion to expediency and constant vigilance against deviating in any way from the partyline over taking actions that minimize suffering.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:47:18 PM EST
    bigunit.. I consider BB to be subhuman. Thanks...I won't be able to sleep now! I understand that these people are your heros... sorry I offended you by slurring them. BTW - when are you going to join up?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#43)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 05:29:41 PM EST
    CommonDreams doesn't make any claims, they link to articles. So ppj lied again, what a surprise. BTW, SD never said any of those folks used the word sub-human, that was bb's characterization of his comments. Just because they didn't use the word, doesn't mean that they aren't marginalizing them, making them appear evil (Oh remember when georgie boy said they were evil!?) and using that as an excuse to employ torture and indesciminate killing of civilians. And ppj has constantly endorsed his fearful leader when he bush said GenCons and the Convention Against Torture doesn't apply. Not using these illegal tactics ain't about the terrorists, it's about us. Now would you care to get back on topic? Marines went door to door murdering innocent families. Please try to get back on the thread instead of constantly lying about what someone else said. Concentrating on the comma and not the content is just so churlish.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#44)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:07:30 PM EST
    I'm going to give you one further example from my background as an anthropologist just so that you -- I'm trying to put context on this because you can go crazy if you don't have the context on this, because I'm going to lead up to something of what we must do to these primitives. Because these primitives can only be treated in one way, and I don't think smallpox and a blanket is good enough incidentally. Just before -- I'm going to give you a little precursor to where I'm going. Smallpox in a blanket, which the U.S. Army gave to the Cherokee Indians on their long march to the West, was nothing compared to what I'd like to see done to these people, just so you understand that I'm not going to be too intellectual about my analysis here in terms of what I would recommend, what Doc Savage recommends as an antidote to this kind of poison coming out of the Middle East from these non-humans.
    link

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#45)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:39:37 PM EST
    If you don't want to get shot by the police, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, then don't point a toy gun at them. Or, as I believe our motto should be after 9/11: Jihad monkey talks tough; jihad monkey takes the consequences. Sorry, I realize that's offensive. How about "camel jockey"? What? Now what'd I say? Boy, you tent merchants sure are touchy. Grow up, would you?
    Link

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#46)
    by aw on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:40:05 PM EST
    I wonder if PPJ still wants more links?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#47)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:51:57 PM EST
    Mmmm, I love it when they bite on the troll cookies! And I can just hear the first belch from their feast of crow; 'but, but but, MediaMatters is a lefty organization' ... ignoring the fact that MM studiously sources every quote and includes the surrounding transcript.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:08:56 PM EST
    Jondee writes:
    The question of whether anyone uses the exact word "subhuman" is irrelevant
    Heck, I gave you one and you still failed. The Left's claim is that all the nasty talk has influenced the troops to do nasty things. Yet you won't agree that all of the Left's negative comments and lack of support has contributed to depression and rage of those on the front lines. Typical. You want it both ways, and can't figure out when rational people just shake their heads and walk away. You know, the truest words I have seen lately is this: the Republicans' ace in the hole is that they get to run against Democrats,

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:16:31 PM EST
    Sailor writes:
    CommonDreams doesn't make any claims, they link to articles. So ppj lied again, what a surprise.
    No sailor, you lie. The link went to CommonDreams and as you can see, ther3 are no links in the article, and it is under cover of their URL. Now, if you want to claim that CommonDreams is merely quoting, or linking, to what someone said, I ask you this. What is the difference between what they have done and what you condemn Bush for doing? The answer is, NONE. Caught you again, eh?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:26:00 PM EST
    aw - Yes. And a rational comment by you would also help. I expect neither. Jondee - A few days ago we got into a discussion re Juan Cole going to Yale. I said he would. I must apologize for being wrong. He has been turned down. That noise you hear is my trying to restrain my laughter. et tu, SD?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#51)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:33:10 PM EST
    jim please stop lying and read the link:"Published on Friday, May 21, 2004 by MediaChannel.org" See, CommonDreams just LINKED to the site. That's what they do. It is a compilation site. They don't even give their opinion of it, they just think other people might be interested in it.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#52)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:58:41 PM EST
    Robert Fisk's new report on Haditha is stinging. He had been unsure of who is behind the massive killing of civilians. He refused to speculate all this time and now is convinced that Haditha is not an isolated event. Fisk asks these questions.
    Could Haditha be just the tip of the mass grave? Just who is doing the mass killing? Who is dumping so many bodies on garbage heaps?
    He concludes the unthinkable.
    After Haditha, we are going to reshape our suspicions.


    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:12:50 PM EST
    Two words: John Negroponte aka Mr. Death Squad. This is the guy who ran riot in Central America under Reagan and history repeats itself. Thanks wingnuts, there's a lot more blood on our hands these days.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#54)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:15:24 PM EST
    Jim don't care...anything goes when you're fighting the communists...err terrorists...or global extremists...or whatever the term is for whoever we're fighting these days.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#55)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 05:25:45 AM EST
    aw: I wonder if PPJ still wants more links?
    aw - Yes. And a rational comment by you would also help.
    I speculated accurately and that is not rational. How so?

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:46:04 AM EST
    Sailor - SD linked to CommonDreams.org. You defended the link several times. Now that I have pointed out the holes in the information in the link claimed by you and SD, you want to claim that it really isn't CommonDreams as a way to say I am "lying." Parsing doesn't become you, dear Sailor. So quit lying yourself. You, I and the world knows that it is the content of the link that was under discussion. I could have referred to it as that "article posted by CommonDreams and linked to by SD," but that is a wee bit awkward. And if you want to claim that CommonDreams is just reporting/referring about something someone else is telling them, and if you and SD are using it because you believe it, I ask again. What difference is there between what Bush has done, who you both have accused of being a liar, and what you are doing? The answer is, NONE. aw - Read my 10:08 comment in which I closed the noose on my point that it is hypocritical for the Left to claim that nasty talk by the Right effects, and non-support and nasty talk by the Left does not. SD and Sailor, among others, have proved my point unless they now want to claim the webb, TV, radio, etc., have a magic filter that removes the Left's nasty talk amd let's the Right's through. Pardon me, but I have to quit now, a fit of giggles has overcome me.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#57)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:48:46 AM EST
    PPJ you are so freakin dishonest its unbelievable, and whats worse you are truly proud os how dishonest you are. pathetic scum.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#58)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:54:41 AM EST
    PPJ you have yet to prove that the Iraqis with their 1-3 hrs of electricity in the main cities are even exposed to what we say never mind influenced, but dont let facts get your way you never have in the past. BTW Im not going to follow the moving goalposts any longer on this thread. Youve been discreditied enough for one thread on to the next one

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#59)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:51:05 AM EST
    The simple fact remains that if Iraq. a country that had not attacked the US, was economically and militarily broken and completely contained after years of sanctions, had no capacity to attack the US, and was an enemy of Al Qaeda, had never been attacked, these crimes would not be happening.
    June 02, 2006 WORCESTER, Mass. --Sen. Edward Kennedy kicked off the Democratic State Convention on Friday by declaring his vote against the Iraqi war "the best vote I've cast in the United States Senate." ... "On Iraq and so many other issues, something's got to change, and we know what it is. We'll say it loud and clear to Republicans in November: You're fired," Kennedy told several thousand delegates gathered at the DCU Center. "Americans aren't looking for big government or small government, liberal government or conservative government. They're looking most of all for competent government." ... Kennedy's speech was being preceded by remarks from former Sen. George McGovern of South Dakota, a famed liberal, anti-war candidate and the 1972 Democratic presidential nominee. "Get our troops out of Iraq -- now," said McGovern. Recalling his decision to serve as a bomber pilot against Nazi Germany in World War II, the former senator said, "I had not the slightest regrets that I volunteered at the age of 19. ... But Iraq presented no such threat to any country, least of all us."
    The war in Iraq has become so unpopular that it could cost Republicans control of Congress, statehouses and governor races around the country, national pollster John Zogby said Friday.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#61)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:50:15 AM EST
    Holy sh*t, edger. But, but, but, we don't chop peoples heads off! The right-wingers say so all the time. That's what makes us better than them.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#62)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 09:52:34 AM EST
    aw: But, but, but, we don't chop peoples heads off! The right-wingers say so all the time. Yes, it's good that the wingers constantly remind us of that, otherwise stories like this would be too disgusting to bear. Of course, it's important to keep in mind that Joshua Key writing about his experiences in Iraq, and me posting quotes from him here so that everyone in Iraq can read about them on TalkLeft on their computers that require no electricity in a country that gets electricity maybe one hour a day, makes me a bush hater at work and a traitor using these stories to further a political agenda and improves the morale of the terrorists. I must have temporarily lost my head. Sometimes I forget that, but I'm working on it...

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#63)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:15:04 AM EST
    Omigod, I looked at your link. I will never get that picture out of my mind.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:18:32 AM EST
    Neither will Iraq...

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:26:45 AM EST
    yes edger, please next time post a warning.

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:29:32 AM EST
    You know I almost thought I should have, Squeaky. Reality has such a liberal bias. I should have recognized how traumatic a picture like that would be...

    Re: Haditha Update (none / 0) (#67)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:49:38 AM EST
    ppj - And you also said "nobody thinks he wont get the appointment". I'll just stick that one, along with your claim that you didnt know if anyone was trying to impede his appointment, in your mounting to the sky B.S file along with your stuck-in-1968 "emboldening the enemy" b.s.