CARLSON: First of all, Wendy, this is coming from a woman who has made what I think are very clearly false allegations. So the fact that you would get up there and proclaim that they made racist remarks as if it were fact rather than a totally unproved allegation. Shows the recklessness.

MURPHY: I never, ever met a false rape claim, by the way. My own statistics speak to the truth.

CARLSON: I'm really glad you're a justice analyst now and not a...

MURPHY: You should be. Somebody needs to bring common sense to yourshow.

CARLSON: Wendy Murphy, completely insane, but delightful nonetheless.

Thanks for joining us.

Nifong's use of the quotation marks was a deliberate, spiteful slap in the face to Meadows, who was, out of courtesy, giving him an opportunity to be heard, to respond to the article before he was caught unawares by its publication.

I just saw Tucker Carlson. A TH on the show (Susan Filan???) said she read the medical report.

I forget the phrasing, but the TH in essence said that the AV stated that one of the players ejaculated in her mouth and [she] spit it out.

Yet no DNA on the floor. So I guess the guys must have cleaned up the semen on the floor but left everything else a mess.

MURPHY: You should be. Somebody needs to bring common sense to your show.

I forget the phrasing, but the TH in essence said that the AV stated that one of the players ejaculated in her mouth and spit it out. Yet no DNA on the floor.

Nifong might want to delay and put it in front of a jury next year, but I can't imagine this train wreck surviving defense motions to have the charges dismissed.

By the way, anyone hear from the AV, or is she still missing?

I've seen it suggested that Nifong plans to brazen it out and is counting on getting a majority black jury that will convict despite the evidence or at least give him a mistrial.

There was DNA found on the bathroom floor. According to Cheshire: one DNA sample was found on the floor and one was found on a towel just outside the bathroom door. One of the samples was from semen. Seligmann is cleared as the source, both sources of the DNA were captains who lived at 610 N. Buchanan.

Do you have a link that says the DNA on the towel and/or floor was specifically semen?

In any event, I think the important fact is that it wasn't the sperm of any of the indicted players.

They also found no DNA on the woman's clothing or belongings, players' attorneys said. The tests found DNA matches to two players, from a towel outside the bathroom and on another object, Cheshire said.

One sample was from a player's semen and another was a different type of DNA, Cheshire said. He said that was to be expected in a bathroom shared by the three men who lived in the house.

This means he is reading up on the blogosphere reaction in his spare time. I find this odd as he is supposed to be swamped with this case, the horrible gang problems in Durham, managing all the ADAs, signing off on stuff, etc. You would think he has zero time to read a blog. Or read it more than once in awhile. I guess we'd be wrong.

IMHO,

I read your post more carefully and it onlys says Seligmann was ruled out. If the sperm was Evans', I think that would be SOMETHING. Not nearly enough to outweigh the overwhelming weight of the evidence in the other direction, but it would certainly be a lot more than anything else (we know) Nifong has now.

I doubt it's Evans' though, because I think that would have been leaked. But . . . one never knows.

Maybe his daughter is keeping him apprised of what the bloggers are saying.

Maybe his daughter is keeping him apprised of what the bloggers are saying.

Are you saying the Nifong's daughter will be mounting her fell beast and taking wing above the courthouse on Thursday to defend the Preciousssss? Or just that we should be careful not to get between the Nifgul and her prey?

Just that if she were to send him e-mails, he would probably read them.

Lastly, what underlies Wendy's (and others on this blog) position is that they want a rape to have occurred!! regardless of the blatant inconsistencies.

In my opinion it is similar personal bad experiences in the past that is the motivation for these blinders. Otherwise, to be objective creates subconscious doubt in their own unfortunate experiences.

Can't believe I hadn't made the Tolkien connection. Should those of us who are less than enchanted with Mr. Nifong consider calling him Gollum?

As a Duke nurse, we also have to do anual HIPPA inservices. If a nurse is approached by a lawyer, le, or anyone wanting info about a patient, they are referred to someone in management and then to the legal department. now, if Himan was in the ED, and overheard part of a conversation amongst co-workers, and he took what he heard and embellished it to fit the ccase that nifong wanted, then who is at fault? If the nurse actually talked to him...not only she, but Duke can get fined. But, as I posted on another thread, no nurse is going to call a rape exam a test...not happening anywhere...JMO

The HIPAA laws apply to anyone that is not designated, or implied (in the case the patient is unconscious, ie..family), LE have to obtain a subpoena to obtain records. Acxcording to HIPAA, I am not allowed to look on the electronic records at my kids tests. Now, that is not to say that an ED doc will not tell a cop, what injuries a trauma victim had, but in generalized term..."looks like the bullet hit his kidney", "had a massive head bleed when he was ejected", but no specifics, over the phone, by a nurse...no way

Lastly, what underlies Wendy's (and others on this blog) position is that they want a rape to have occurred!! regardless of the blatant inconsistencies.

"Matt grabbed me and looked at me. He said, 'Sweetheart, you can't leave.' He grabbed the back of my neck...They started kicking me in my behind and my back."

"27-year-old female alleged sexual assault...denied other physical assault...NO EVIDENCE of other physical assault.

The police summary of the statement Kim Roberts, the second dancer, made is especially damning. Roberts said the idea that the woman was assaulted was a "crock." She went on to say that the accuser, who used the stage name Precious, was out of Roberts's sight for less than five minutes. Roberts later told NEWSWEEK she believed a rape could have happened. In the meantime, Nifong, who declined a request for comment, had approved a motion to eliminate Roberts's bond payments stemming from a prior conviction.

Hey, IMHO, setting aside whatever problems I have with your comments, I really am glad your cat came back. Best wishes for the patient's speedy recovery.

mr. nifong stated that he provided, in his prior news conferences, all the information available at the time. demonstrably not a true statement. as has been noted before, he referrenced the results of a medical report not yet in existence.

i found his whole e-mail pretty pathetic. in effect, it says "you guys made me look bad, by actually reporting the incredibly stupid public statements i made, when this case first broke."

let's get real here, if mr. nifong had concrete, no questions about it evidence, to support the allegations, he would be bound by the rules of discovery to have disclosed that to the defense team. while it's true that the defense team might not blare that in public, it would have been leaked, by someone, to the press. and yet, nothing.

all of this other stuff is meaningless drivel. they found DNA in a bathroom, shared by many people. so what? this came as a shock to someone? the real shock would have been if they'd found none at all.

too many inconsistencies, from both the AV and ms. roberts/pittman. ms. roberts/pittman contacting an agent, to see how she could "spin this to her advantage". ms. roberts/pittman cutting a deal with the DA, on another charge, in return, or so it appears, for her cooperation in this case. and on, and on, and on, etc.

Then we have IMHO and lora, spinning wildly, speculation upon speculation, as it becomes more obvious to anyone with half a brain, that this case is going down the tubes, fast and furious.

should it turn out that the AV has, in fact, created this whole scenario out of whole cloth, what to do? her recantation cannot undo the damage done, no matter how heartfelt it may be. that train left the station, and it can't be recalled.

an entire institution has been smeared. the entire team has had its reputation destroyed. three individual's lives have been turned upside down, their reputations not even a shell of their former selves. one (evans) has had a job offer withdrawn, adding that fiscal cost to the costs of his defense.

slap her on the wrist and say "there, there, it's ok, we understand."? geez, i don't think so. what measure of justice would that be?

KENDALL: And now it looks like he knew this from the beginning. And on your point about her having the sex with other people before the night in question, it's really no longer open to speculation, unless you disbelieve the witness testimony. This is the statement from the driver who took her to the party. He says it, black and white -- I've got it right here -- that the two of them had sex.

HANNITY: And I've read it. And he's saying that. So that raises the injury issue. The girl herself was on the record as saying multiple times, multiple different versions of the case, and the girl that was with her says, "No, this couldn't have happened. I was with her for all but five minutes." She had claimed a 30-minute rape had taken place here, and she also had claimed that she was in the bathroom at the time and the other girl said, "That's a crock." So the question is, Kimberly...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, she's accusing her of being accomplice in the sexual assault and saying, "She took my money. She was in the bathroom during the rape." So this is her witness that she's supposed to bring forward to corroborate her story, in some fashion. She's got credibility issues then.

Huh????????????????????? Let me get this straight. The Duke lacrosse players are getting off easy because other innocent people have spent decades in prison for crimes they didn't commit? The underlying premise would seem to be that there isn't a problem with innocent people being charged, tried, and sent to jail. AT SOME POINT it'll all get straightened out, then? Huh?????????????????????

So what does Mike do? He sends her a mean, condescending response that clearly states his anger at her and other journalist for not just accepting his positions on the case.

Once specific defendants were indentified, I considered myself to be ethically bound to avoid any futher comments on the case or the evidence. That has left the field pretty much open to the defense attorneys. That part I understand, and have no choice to live with. What has surprised me is the utter lack of any degree of skepticism on the part of the national media with respect to the claims of the defense attorneys, many of which are misleading and some of which are absolutely false.

What part did the players, have in affording this one woman the opportunity to smear Duke University...

Did the defense share the 1300 pages of discovery with anyone other than Dan Abrams?

1. People are wrongly accused.

2. The responsibility for how the situation turns out depends solely upon the choices of those accused; all others are to be held blameless.

So, enduring a false accusation of a vicious, heinous crime that turns one's stomach and stains one's character is just the price, and a reasonable one at that, for living in America.

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Everyone, please forgive me. I never learned that in school. Doh!

had said earlier that maybe if a certain AV booster had been falsely charged with a crime she might have a better understanding. She responded that she in fact had been falsely accused and had suffered greatly.

I don't know, but the female TH on Tucker's show last night (Susan Filan?) said that Abrams showed it to her. She said it was very bad for the prosecution, particularly the medical reports and the AV's written statement.

MSNBC did not get the documents from what I could tell. Abrams went down to Durham and went through them in a conference room, I suppose, taking copious notes. He referred to his notebook during the TV program. I doubt the defense lawyers would ever release the whole discovery file to the public, especially since the medical report is arguably protected by federal privacy rights.

Does anyone know when the newly-elected District Attorney for Durham will take control of existing cases--what date?

Does anyone know when the newly-elected District Attorney for Durham will take control of existing cases--what date?

I missed that exchange. Thank you for bringing it up, as it sheds some light on comments that seem truly alien to me.

Does anyone think the defense should have picked a more impartial journalist than Abrams to be their conduit?

Does anyone think the defense should have picked a more impartial journalist than Abrams to be their conduit? They are doing this for the sake of credibility. If you are going to do something, do it right.

Evidently the defense has nothing to fear from full public disclosure; they petitioned the judge to release it to the public. You got any problem with that?

They chose a legal strategy, and if they are innocent, so far, it hasn't worked out for them. If they are guilty, it probably will.

What part did the players, have in affording this one woman the opportunity to smear Duke University, destroy the reputation of the entire Duke lacrosse team, turn three players' lives upside down, their reputations reduced to a shell of their former reputations, get Evans canned, and cost their parents a lot of money? There should be a law against door to door strippers catching a bunch of drunk "boys" unaware.

She responded that she in fact had been falsely accused and had suffered greatly. That suggests to me that she is lacking the ability to sympathize and empathize.

I know the discernable brain wave patterns of Goslee, Weil and Grace, combined would not equal Dan's. imho

Hey imho, what has been going on with Micky? It looks like he hasn't missed many barbeque platters at the Corky's all-you-can-eat buffet joint. He really should buy a bigger belt, or at least get another notch cut in it so he can eaze his belly out a bit. Look's like he's going to bust a gut as he hops around Durham bringing destruction and dismay.

If they are innocent, as seems likely, what strategy should they have adopted? If you are going to say they should have cooperated with the investigators, please remember that Evans cooperated more than fully, and look where it got him.

This comes perilously close to "they brought it on themselves." Are you John McCann's sock puppet? Not worthy, IMHO.

There should be a law against door to door strippers catching a bunch of drunk "boys" unaware.

I've seen enough to know that her allegation is bogus. A very important part of her story is not corroberated by Kim, who TRIED and FAILED to corroberate her story by giving the rape a window of oppurtunity (the "I went in but couldn't find her" lie). That she couldn't amend her story to fit with the accuser's "3 guys grabbed Nikki, and separated us at the masterbedroom door while we tried to hold on to each other" means that this important event did not happen, which in turn means the rape did not happen.

This case is proof postive that a house resident's DNA can transfer from a trashcan onto a fake fingernail.

The semen might be his? Definitely not the semen that she alleged to have spit out. That would be mixed in with her own DNA.

If that were the case I think we would have known about that by now.

As it stands, the only DNA link to this assault with no condoms in every orifice is from the guy who lived at the house. A DNA link from a fingernail in his trashcan.

There should be a law against door to door strippers catching a bunch of drunk "boys" unaware.

There is: it is known as the prohibition against malicious prosecution and the filing of false police reports.

Unfortunately, those well meaning laws did not work in this case because of a the disastrous combination of a dishonest PD and a race baiting, race pandering DA who was up for election from traffic ticket duties and needed the black vote.

If the "boys" had only taken the slightest precaution.

The real shock is in a bathroom shared by the three residents and a whole mess of guys a few nights earlier the only DNA they found was 1.)on a towel, 2.)on the floor and 3.)on the fingernail.

We don't know if the accuser's story that no condoms were used is correct, just like we don't know if the accuser is right about having to be pryed apart from "Nikki." If she was wrong about one, maybe she was wrong about the other. It's up to a jury to decide if they believe parts of her story or none of it.

...Abrams is the most honest purveyer of facts I have seen on this case...

What is going to happen on Thursday? As much as I'd like the judge to dismiss the case, I'm afraid it's not going to happen

As much as I'd like the judge to dismiss the case, I'm afraid it's not going to happen

What is going to happen on Thursday?

Both the players and Kim *agree* that she went back in to get her purse, and this is when Nikki says a rape could have occured (she now claims she went back in to find her but couldn't). Ergo, NO ONE corroberates her "3 guys grabbed Nikki... etc" claim, a CENTREL PART of her phony rape story. If that's a lie (it is a now confirmed lie in fact) then the rest of her story is a lie. Nikki painted herself in a hole so she can't alter her story now to fit with the accuser's.

Whoops.

We haven't heard who the other Lacrosse player linked to that fingernail is. Another guy who LIVED there? That's my what I think.

Experts at DNA Security in Burlington tested genetic material taken from one of the woman's fake fingernails found in a trash can in the house. The testing eliminated 45 of 46 lacrosse players but could not eliminate Evans. But the DNA tests could not specifically identify Evans as the source of the DNA, either, defense lawyers said.

If that's a lie (it is a now confirmed lie in fact) then the rest of her story is a lie.

Re the semen spitting:

I guess those boys, after seeing the FA spit out the semen on the floor during the process of the toothless oral rape, just said, "ah, what the hell, just leave it on the floor, who cares, we'll just step around it for a few days. But the police might come looking for it because a rape has been alleged, one suggested. Who cares, the other boy replies, they'll never find it, just leave it there."

Norm Earley always looks queasy when he's asked to comment on Mike's performance. He appears to be ready to break into tears each time he's asked what he thinks. maybe he's channeling the Durham DA more than we know.

Posted by Newport June 20, 2006 12:50 PM Re the semen spitting: I guess those boys, after seeing the FA spit out the semen on the floor during the process of the toothless oral rape, just said, "ah, what the hell, just leave it on the floor, who cares, we'll just step around it for a few days. But the police might come looking for it because a rape has been alleged, one suggested. Who cares, the other boy replies, they'll never find it, just leave it there."

More from the "journalists": Hannity & Colmes June 9, 2006 KENDALL: And now it looks like he knew this from the beginning. And on your point about her having the sex with other people before the night in question, it's really no longer open to speculation, unless you disbelieve the witness testimony. This is the statement from the driver who took her to the party. He says it, black and white -- I've got it right here -- that the two of them had sex. HANNITY: And I've read it. And he's saying that. So that raises the injury issue. The girl herself was on the record as saying multiple times, multiple different versions of the case, and the girl that was with her says, "No, this couldn't have happened. I was with her for all but five minutes." She had claimed a 30-minute rape had taken place here, and she also had claimed that she was in the bathroom at the time and the other girl said, "That's a crock." So the question is, Kimberly... GUILFOYLE: Yes, she's accusing her of being accomplice in the sexual assault and saying, "She took my money. She was in the bathroom during the rape." So this is her witness that she's supposed to bring forward to corroborate her story, in some fashion. She's got credibility issues then. Anybody still believe what these clowns "report?"

The DNA Security report said Dave Evans, one of three senior co-captains living in the rental house on Buchanan Boulevard, could not be excluded as the source of the DNA found on an artificial fingernail taken from a wastebasket in a bathroom at the house. But the report also noted that 14 of the 3,561 profiles in the company's DNA data bank could not be excluded as sources.

Of course everyone believes this. You are the only one who doesn't. Do you think repeating your thoroughly rejected arguments is somehow going to make them right?

"If it were Evans semen, it could have been deposited on the floor during a sexual assault or on the towel afterward."

It *could* have been, but since he lived there, it would just be coincedence. Not corroberation. Why no deposited semen or other DNA from the other two guys? That's right. They didn't live at the residence. LOL!

MSNBC "JOURNALIST":

She told police she was attacked separately from the alleged raped saying quote: "Matt grabbed me and looked at me. He said, 'Sweetheart, you can't leave.' He grabbed the back of my neck...They started kicking me in my behind and my back."

MSNBC "JOURNALIST":

BUT in a doctor's report the doctor the doctors says quote: "27-year-old female alleged sexual assault...denied other physical assault...NO EVIDENCE of other physical assault.

MSNBC "JOURNALIST":

So Susan, the doctor says the accuser DENIES being sexually assaulted. She says there was...ah.. that it did happen earlier. If she can't keep THAT part straight, what does that do to her alleging a rape occurred?

[WTF? "the doctor says the accuser DENIES being sexually assaulted?" OK, the "journalist" misspoke," Susan Filan, her "journalistic" colleague will correct her....OOPS! NOPE:]

ABRAMS:  ... it is constantly contradicted by the other evidence and even the accuser's statement itself is entirely contradicted by the sexual assault nurse's report.  FILAN:  Well that's the thing.  You've always said to me what do you want to see, if you could see if for yourself, what would you want to see?  I would want to see the accuser's statement.  I'd want to see the nurse's report.  You've seen both.  Let's take a look. The accuser's statement to the police--the boys hit and kicked me.  Matt grabbed me and looked and me and said sweetheart you can't leave.  He grabbed the back of my neck and said I'm going to kill you (BLANK) (BLANK) if you don't shut up.  They started kicking me in my behind and my back.  Matt hit me in the face while Dan and Brett kicked me. But then what she says to the Duke Medical University Center, to the doctor... ABRAMS:  March 14, the day after the incident.  FILAN:  That's right.  The doctor who examines her, 27-year-old female alleged assault by three men, denies other physical assault, no evidence of other physical assault--Dan.  ABRAMS:  And also, I mean that's not the only contradiction.  I mean depending on which story she's telling, depending on which time she's telling the story, it changes, meaning she went to the UNC Medical Center and there's a report about that from March the 15th, and the doctor there says she reports hitting her head on the sink and that that's how she may have had certain injuries.  It really--and then again, the sexual assault nurse has yet a different story about what she says, but most significant to me is the fact that you read the sexual assault nurse's statement, right, and we've talked about the fact that the sexual assault nurse found some swelling there, not necessarily tearing or anything, we knew about that.  What we didn't know, at least I didn't know, is that the sexual assault nurse basically says that the accuser tells her that it's all basically the fault of the second stripper.  I mean in the sexual assault nurse's report, it says that the second stripper helped carry her into the--back into the house as she's screaming no, no, no, that after it happens, according to the sexual assault nurse, she's making--she takes all of her money, that the second stripper steals her money, she helps her--helps them bring her into the house, steals her money.  That's directly contradicting what she said in her statement where she talks about oh, we were trying to hold on to each other and we were separated.  I mean... FILAN:  And that's what she told the police.  ABRAMS:  That's in the written statement she gave to the police, is her saying that they were basically trying to--she and the second stripper were holding on to each other and they got separated.  To the sexual assault nurse, she's saying basically it's all the second stripper's fault.  She carries me into the house and then steals my money.  FILAN:  But you know, Dan, sometimes in sexual assault cases, we've talked about this before, it's so traumatic, you can't remember everything, it doesn't sound like you're saying memory loss.  It sounds like you're saying liar. 

So Susan, the doctor says the accuser DENIES being sexually assaulted. She says there was...ah.. that it did happen earlier. If she can't keep THAT part straight, what does that do to her alleging a rape occurred?

There was. There were two samples. We do not know which two of the three residents the DNA belonged to. Could be neither were from Evans.

Two profiles were obtained from this mixture. Both matched Lacrosse players partially. So who is the other Lacrosse guy linked to this fingernail? Another who lived there? Can he testify that she never scratched him?

I'll tell you one thing, folks... it isn't a great idea to read this board during lunch breaks with all the spitting and bathroom habits being reviewed. Sheesh.

I'm pretty certain that using the bathroom at a men's team captains' residence would call for hovering, hence splatter

I mean as long as we're dealing in remote possibilities here. . ..

Well, even if a gang rape, or even a rape, didn't occur that night, these wonderful, privileged, all-American boys have brought dishonor to Duke university, and indeed, to men everywhere by their shameful acts. Why, they have been caught urinating in public, hiring a stripper and watching naked women dancing, made unkind remarks and so forth. They should have thought of the possible outcomes before they hired those strippers or started drinking beer.

What part did the players, have in affording this one woman the opportunity to smear Duke University, destroy the reputation of the entire Duke lacrosse team, turn three players' lives upside down, their reputations reduced to a shell of their former reputations, get Evans canned, and cost their parents a lot of money? There should be a law against door to door strippers catching a bunch of drunk "boys" unaware.

Where in the published transcript do the words quoted by imho appear?

On particular where do the following words, or wors to the like effect, appear?

So Susan, the doctor says the accuser DENIES being sexually assaulted. She says there was...ah.. that it did happen earlier. If she can't keep THAT part straight, what does that do to her alleging a rape occurred?

I guess we could always accept the argument that imho is very committed so the words must appear somewhere.

My take is, they were able to obtain two profiles from this one mixture, one matched Evans partially and the other matched another Lacrosse player (not among the accused).

In no way is this a "match" to somebody's DNA profile. That is prosecution spin.

...Neither of the two men linked to the sample were Reade Seligmann or Collin Finnerty, the first two Duke lacrosse players indicted in the case. However, Evans' DNA was in the mixture.

A DNA link is not clear cut with the type of test used in this case, DNA experts told ABC News. ABC News spoke with DNA analysts, including Brian Meehan, head of DNA Security, the Burlington, N.C. laboratory that conducted the set of tests used in the case. All of the analysts agreed that the most one could say about Evans was that he could not be ruled out, but also could not be definitively ruled in. "It's not what [prosecutors] were hoping for," said David Rudolf, a North Carolina defense attorney. "It's obviously somewhat helpful, but not nearly as much as if it was a match. Instead it's simply consistent with one of the players at the party." The fact that the DNA sample found on the nail was a mixture makes it more difficult to be certain that it can be linked to any given person, experts said. Because many people in the general population share the same genitive traits, said Dr. Elizabeth Johnson, a California-based DNA expert, "there would be many people who could have the same traits as what shows up in the mixture."

Alan posted the MSNBC report with Abrams & Filan - the 3 names who did it were Matt, Dan & Brett. On the search warrent - Adam, Brett & Matt were the guys who raped her. How or when did we go from Adam to Dan? Wasn't Flannery the guy who went by Adam when he ordered up the strippers? Can someone clear this up for me?

The name of the journalist in question would help. Specifying the segment you are transcribing would help. Given the similarity between the material you posted and what Filan says on the Abrams Report, would you say the discrepancy, if it actually exists, is misspeaking or deception?

Remnote possibilities? Try fitting an oral rape in THIS! From Reade's Verizon phone call log 12:05: call goes to his girlfriend -- lasts 32 seconds 12:06: call goes to his girlfriend -- lasts 33 seconds 12:07: call goes to his girlfriend -- lasts 36 seconds 12:09: call goes to unknown -- lasts 23 seconds 12:09: call goes to unknown -- lasts 13 seconds 12:10: call goes to his girlfriend -- lasts 26 seconds 12:12: call goes to his girlfriend -- lasts 20 seconds 12:13: call goes to his girlfriend -- lasts 33 seconds 12:14: call goes to the cab company (973-953-4832) -- lasts 58 seconds 12:16: call goes to unknown -- lasts 11 seconds

This is a statement deriving from a misunderstanding of the evidence. Evans' DNA was not determined to be in the mixture. This is an error. The very next paragraph goes:

Wasn't Flannery the guy who went by Adam when he ordered up the strippers? Can someone clear this up for me?

The prosecution alleges the players used false names to conceal the crime.

The players that allegedly raped her had the first names of the Lacrosse captains.

The prosecution alleges the players used false names to conceal the crime.

It is the States belief the suspects used each others names to disguise their own identities and create an atmosphere where confusion would become a factor in this event should problems arise in the future where any actions or conduct would be questioned.

imho

I accept there could be confusion. The name of the journalist in question would help. Specifying the segment you are transcribing would help. Given the similarity between the material you posted and what Filan says on the Abrams Report, would you say the discrepancy, if it actually exists, is misspeaking or deception?

[WTF? "the doctor says the accuser DENIES being sexually assaulted?" OK, the "journalist" misspoke," Susan Filan, her "journalistic" colleague will correct her....OOPS! NOPE:]

If Nifong meant the quotations to be a slap in the face, I'd say they've earned it.

Interesting question, especially in view of the fact that it lent spurious support to IMHO's contention that Abrams is biassed against the AV.

I am confused how Nifong knew to put quotes around 'journalist' because of a segment broadcast some days after he used the quotes in his email.

I am confused how Nifong knew to put quotes around 'journalist' because of a segment broadcast some days after he used the quotes in his email

KENDALL: And now it looks like he knew this from the beginning. And on your point about her having the sex with other people before the night in question, it's really no longer open to speculation, unless you disbelieve the witness testimony. This is the statement from the driver who took her to the party. He says it, black and white -- I've got it right here -- that the two of them had sex.

HANNITY: And I've read it. And he's saying that. So that raises the injury issue. The girl herself was on the record as saying multiple times, multiple different versions of the case, and the girl that was with her says, "No, this couldn't have happened. I was with her for all but five minutes." She had claimed a 30-minute rape had taken place here, and she also had claimed that she was in the bathroom at the time and the other girl said, "That's a crock." So the question is, Kimberly...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, she's accusing her of being accomplice in the sexual assault and saying, "She took my money. She was in the bathroom during the rape." So this is her witness that she's supposed to bring forward to corroborate her story, in some fashion. She's got credibility issues then.

'The Abrams Report' for June 12

GALANTER: Yes. He's got to say why did the complaining witness say to Kim Roberts, we should go back in after they were both presumably safely in the car, and let's make some more money. He's got to explain why does the complaining witness say Kim Roberts was in the bathroom with me while I was getting forcibly raped by three men and she assisted. Not only did she assist, she stole my property and money. He's got to explain why none of those facts and circumstances...

'The Abrams Report' for June 9

ABRAMS: What about this? What about this? The accuser also said, she--quote--"she told the sexual assault nurse examiner in training that Kim Roberts Pittman, the second dancer, assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault...

GALANTER: Was in the bathroom...

ABRAMS: ... and that Kim Roberts Pittman...

(CROSSTALK)

ABRAMS: ... stole all her money and everything.

Abrams is reading from the motion, but we don't know where Galanter got his "was in the bathroom."

IMHO, there is no ambiguity in the statement in the affidavit. Galanter probably just did what anyone else did and added "the bathroom."

What is so interesting about this?

How would this take it to another level.

I am not aware of anyone claiming a rape occurred in the car or on the lawn. The rape was supposed to have happened in the bathroom according to the stories being told by Nifong and the FA.

"Assisted in a rape" means more than verbal inducements, imho. And if Kim "assisted" in a rape, and the AV said the rape happened in a bathroom, give the words their normal meaning: if the AV said Kim "assisted" then she was in the bathroom.

Perhaps, like the mystic powers of prescience invoked in the medical conclusions, Kim 'assisted' from a distance by the use of telekinesis?

Finally she [the AV] told the S.A.N.E nurse in training that Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault and that Kim Pittman stole "all her money and everything."

ACCUSER'S STATEMENT TO NURSE

"the door was locked and they said I could not leave... I said I wanted to leave, but they said I couldn't...Nikki was on the other side of the door."

What if the accuser said, "I know the other dancer was in on it. She set me up." Might the nurse or an attorney write that the accuser said "Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault?"

Furthermore, the SANE stated the injuries and her behavior were consistent with a traumatic experience.

January posted: If they are innocent, as seems likely, what strategy should they have adopted? If you are going to say they should have cooperated with the investigators, please remember that Evans cooperated more than fully, and look where it got him.

Corroboration from the other 40+ players might have been helpful to the three who did initially cooperate fully. They were left hanging.

The real shock is in a bathroom shared by the three residents and a whole mess of guys a few nights earlier the only DNA they found was 1.)on a towel, 2.)on the floor and 3.)on the fingernail.

Ordinarly prosecutors cannot be sued for filing even a frivolous criminal complaint against someone. The court-created doctrine of prosecutorial immunity precludes suit. But prosecutorial immunity does not attach to statements made to the press. See Buckley v. Fitzsimmons (holding that a prosecutor is not absolutely immune from suit for false statements made in a press conference.) The Duke lacrosse players can sue Nifong for defaming them. To state a claim for defamation, a plaintiff must prove that the defendant (here, Nifong) lied about them to someone else, and that this lie lowered the opinon others have of the plaintiff, i.e., that the statements caused reputational harm. Nifong certainly lied about the Duke players at least once (and likely lied about them at least twice), and these lies harmed the plaintiffs' reputations.

I just looked at the famous 12:30 photo of the accuser on the back porch and it reminded me of a comment I believe I read from the cop (maybe the security guard?) who interacted with the accuser in Pittman's car in the parking lot and reported that she "had no undergarments on" or some such thing.

imho concocted:

What if the accuser said, "I know the other dancer was in on it. She set me up." Might the nurse or an attorney write that the accuser said "Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault?"

Admirable introjection, but inconsistent with the Abrams Report quotation of the discovery documents. Incidentally, because I've reread a couple of documents, I did find, at the foot of the police request for the DNA order:

Perhaps, like the mystic powers of prescience invoked in the medical conclusions, Kim 'assisted' from a distance by the use of telekinesis?

There are 2 logical alternatives (taking the AV allegation that Pittman assisted at its highest):

* Pittman assisted the rape and was therefore present when it happened

* Pittman is vested with myserious and unknown powers which enable her to assist a rape in one room while she is herself in another

Which position is yours? Or shall we have another imhological argument about the meaning of 'presence'?

I really thought my answer was clear, if couched in satirical terms, I see no reason to read 'assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault' to mean something other than 'assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault'. The media report may misquote the nurse, the media report may be plain wrong, or those may be the words the nurse used. If they are they mean, I submit, what they mean.

I don't see the benefit to filling an already speculative thread with a mountain of introjected imhology.

Perhaps Pittman is one of the evil Grays from Zeta Reticuli who used her mind control ray on the players and that is what the nurse meant by 'assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault'. The Zeta Reticuli theory is, admittedly, somewhat unlikely but it is evidenced just as well by the words 'assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault' as some alternate theory about set-ups.

ACCUSER'S STATEMENT TO NURSE

"the door was locked and they said I could not leave... I said I wanted to leave, but they said I couldn't...Nikki was on the other side of the door."

To state a claim for defamation, a plaintiff must prove that the defendant (here, Nifong) lied about them to someone else, and that this lie lowered the opinon others have of the plaintiff, i.e., that the statements caused reputational harm. Nifong certainly lied about the Duke players at least once (and likely lied about them at least twice), and these lies harmed the plaintiffs' reputations.

The real shock is that AV did not have more DNA on her: she performed on the living floor with her clothes on; her costume and figernails should have picked up DNA from the (carpeted?) floor.

This just happened to be the most recent example I found, see my next post for examples aired before Nifong b!tch-slapped Ms. Meadows.

But nope, after all that popcorn you were ready for some Defense Spin Kool-Aid:

BTW, it is not correct to call either player a partial match to this mixture.

It is very weak, allele information which can only serve to exclude some but not others.

In no way is this a "match" to somebody's DNA profile.

That is prosecution spin.

imho, the "assisted" must come from this, "Brett came out to the car and spoke to Nikki and said get her out of here. Brett was carrying me on one side and Nikki on the other side. I kept telling them no.".I don't know where Yale Galanter got his information from.

Finally she [the AV] told the S.A.N.E nurse in training that Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault and that Kim Pittman stole "all her money and everything."

ACCUSER'S STATEMENT TO NURSE

"the door was locked and they said I could not leave... I said I wanted to leave, but they said I couldn't...Nikki was on the other side of the door."

So Nifong "b!tch-slapped" Ms. Meadows, but the tone of his email betrayed no anger?

There is a tremendous gap in your logic imho, I suggest you read what you wrote again.

IMHO,

I never thought you were angry. You have too much fun with this.

But I don't think you are Nifong. And I don't think Nifong is having a good time.

Then you must not have seen him at Seligmann's hearing.

Wait a sec, imho. If that part is from the SANE nurse (Nikki being just outside the door) and the other part I quoted is definitely from the SANE nurse (she was carried by Kim to house with the help of a player), there leaves room for her to have help drag her to the bathroom to be raped. Hence "assisted". Why else after carrying her to the house would she later be just ouside the door of the bathroom? Perhaps she was in there at one time or helped put her in there?

Finally she [the AV] told the S.A.N.E nurse in training that Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault and that Kim Pittman stole "all her money and everything."

Nifong realizes that his career and reputation will suffer long-term damage as a result of this debacle.

Just heard a leader for Tucker's show that hinted that Nifong might be ready to "quietly drop the case".

A more appropriate description might be the expressions of a crazed lunatic musing about escape from a penal colony in Australia.

Our whole discussion was based on whether or not the quote: Finally she [the AV] told the S.A.N.E nurse in training that Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault and that Kim Pittman stole "all her money and everything." determined that the accuser told the nurse "Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault" from INSIDE the bathroom. They said yes, said no.

1. it did not match

2. It was found in his trash can

3. Another player was linked to the sample...

4) everything else points to a false accusation.

How about a white man in Durham's worst nightmare. That would seem just as appropriate. That will be his closing argument to the jury, you see them sitting there and they are white as hell, they must be guilty.

I worry more about the white man's burden than the white man's nightmare. White people, like people of all races, have a few accomplishments to be proud of in this world, but the treatment of the accuser in this case is not one of them. That they try and dis her in the name of the Civil Rights movement is as shameless as any of the perverse statements justifying slavery in the pre-Civil War South. Orinoco used to do that. I'm not proud of him for that, any more than I am proud of my Duke Aryan brothers for their racially inexcusable exclamations the night of the party. They are cowards not to attone for those statements.

Newport - you are on a roll today! Keep em coming!

I assume that the spitting will end, once and for all, the speculation that condoms might have been used? If not, RS needs to change brands.

LOL, what career? Before this case he was just a two-bit traffic ticket prosecutor in a small town. The guy is a total loser. He graduated in the bottom half of his class and had to take a job working for free

You are one sick and bitter person PB and you have no idea what you are talking about.

They are cowards not to attone for those statements.

You are way out of your element.

Just heard a leader for Tucker's show that hinted that Nifong might be ready to "quietly drop the case".

Nifong went to UNC-Chapel Hill on a scholarship and graduated Phi Beta Kappa. He worked for free for two weeks.

PB - I heard that one of the unindicted players gave a deposition that RS made his phone calls from in the yard. Directly afterward, he went down the block to catch the taxi. That should exclude him from the bathroom at the relevant time.

Good one, IMHO. You've just solved the case. BTW, that fuller accuser statement to which you refer does not have Kim assisting with the rape, now does it? In that fuller statement Roberts was supposedly holding on to the Precious to prevent her from being dragged into the bathroom. There was no assistance there, in fact, quite the opposite.

What we are left with is the FA's statement to the nurse about Robert's assisting in the rape. We still don't know how it will be alleged that Roberts assisted in the rape by the FA because none of her stories make any sense and because Nifong hasn't charged Roberts with assisting in the rape.

I say you haven't proved a damn thing and even if you had it doesn't amount to one morsel in a hill full of squat.

What we didn't know, at least I didn't know, is that the sexual assault nurse basically says that the accuser tells her that it's all basically the fault of the second stripper.

I mean in the sexual assault nurse's report, it says that the second stripper helped carry her into the--back into the house as she's screaming no, no, no, that after it happens, according to the sexual assault nurse, she's making--she takes all of her money, that the second stripper steals her money, she helps her--helps them bring her into the house, steals her money.

ACCUSER'S STATEMENT TO NURSE

"the door was locked and they said I could not leave... I said I wanted to leave, but they said I couldn't...Nikki was on the other side of the door."

For that she should be looked on as a pariah, and not just by white people. She's screwing it up for everyone, more so for people of color. Can't you recognize this?

PB, I have said the same thing here that the FA slept with at least 5 men and perhaps as many as 7 in the several days before the alleged rape, because I believe the evidence strongly supports that statement.

Orinco, if he said that, was right.

She may well be a false accuser, but if so she has plenty of company.

I mean in the sexual assault nurse's report, it says that the second stripper helped carry her into the--back into the house as she's screaming no, no, no, that after it happens, according to the sexual assault nurse, she's making--she takes all of her money, that the second stripper steals her money, she helps her--helps them bring her into the house, steals her money.

PB, the FA has dirtied down herself, has she not?

I also don't know how Orinco could have made that claim because, as I understand it, he was banned before the Johnson statement was released. I know he was never on this blog after I joined and I am pretty sure the Johnson statement came out just recently.

Are you accusing Bob and others of falsely accusing someone of making a false accusation?

If false accusations of false accusation are evil, why are false accusations of a much worse crime not evil?

It was Orinoco, you will remember, who claimed that the AV slept with "at least" 5 men in the week before the rape and maybe 7. When asked the grounds for this quantification, he said "common sense." Is there anyone lower?

TL got rid of all his posts, so I can't really check on whether I'm right about that one. Maybe if you ask her she could pull them out for you.

I'll be happy to mail you a DVD of the segment.

That's interesting. The players that allegedly raped her had the first names of the Lacrosse captains. Matt Zash. Brett Thomspon. Dan Flannery. In the probable cause affidavit, she claimed that Adam, one of the rapists, was called Dan by everyone at the party, and IIRC, Dan Flannery used Adam as an alias. Fishy.

but I just wondered if it was even possible, say if he slid the entire story 30 minutes earlier

A more appropriate description might be the expressions of a crazed lunatic musing about escape from a penal colony in Australia.

Perhaps they could be condoms with particularly confusing instructions on the packet.

What does it mean to graduate Phi Beta Kappa? At Chapel Hill, at the time in question?

PB - I heard that one of the unindicted players gave a deposition that RS made his phone calls from in the yard. Directly afterward, he went down the block to catch the taxi. That should exclude him from the bathroom at the relevant time.

And, I will admit that "assisted" in the rape did not mean Kim was in the bathroom with the AV. But having admitted that, the question is, "so what?" How can you, or simply can you reconcile Kim's and the AV's statements? Do you think a jury should carefully pick and choose, one from Column A and one from Column B, to come up with a cohesive, coherent, consistent story of what happened?

Was other dna found in his trashcan?

I missed that, but it is intriguing.

A few things we do know: She was a stripper which doesn't mean that she would have sex for money.

Shouldn't we give this young woman the same benefit of the doubt? If you say no we shouldn't perhaps you should ask yourself why. .. Why do you feel that way? You and I both know what the answer is.

Oh, Nifong, how bad of you. Susannah Meadow gives you a heads up about the upcoming article; your "person" asks for her fax number so she can be sent a copy of your response, your "press release;" but she has to read it first online, and her cell phone number is not redacted????????

Cheap, cheap shot, or awfully inept. Mean, vindictive, shabby . . . hubris.

This quoted statement has nothing to do with "assisting with rape." It does not support that Roberts assisted with rape. It supports that Roberts stole her money.

What exactly do you mean by "dirtying her down"? Is it referring to her as a stripper? Is there another term you'd prefer for someone who takes of her clothes for money?

Is it speculation about what goes on during her one-on-one dates?

My position is that if you feel comfortable judging the female populace of Duke as "not being feminist" based on your assessment of a few blog commenters, then those who assume the AV prostitutes herself as an escort, based on the behavior of other escorts is at least as valid.

Is the "dirtying" really just the abomination of doubting her word? Of doubting that a reported rape could have occurred?

Where's the 'dirtying'?

Phi Beta Kappa is considered to be the most selective and prestigious of all college honor societies and election to membership one of the highest honors available to undergraduate collegians.

Taking a sample of individuals and applying it to characterize a group is not the same as taking a characterization of a group and applying it to an individual. The former has a mathematical legitimacy. The latter is just a form of bigotry.

Taking a sample of individuals and applying it to characterize a group is not the same as taking a characterization of a group and applying it to an individual. The former has a mathematical legitimacy. The latter is just a form of bigotry.

all of the "evidence" that we do have supports the consistent story of the lacrosse players and in many cases contradicts the stories of the dancers.

PB - touche! Though one of the TH (Abrams, I believe) reported that all lax players were deposed and all told essentially the same basic story. In addition, the accused all said "no sex", and the "evidence" to date supports that.

If I met five polka-dotted people in my life, and all of them had terrible table manners, by your logic, I could easily say that any polka-dotted person had terrible table manners. However, if the general reputation of the population of polka-dotted folk was that they had terrible table manners, it's bigoted to assume that an individual polka-dotted person has these bad manners?

While neither is a perfect worldview, I don't particularly see that one takes a moral high ground to the other, and I find the claim of mathematical legitimacy to be a bit weak.

To infer that a woman who routinely earns money from 30-60-minute "dates" with strangers in hotel rooms is a prostitute is common sense, not bigotry. "Bigotry" does not mean drawing reasonable conclusions from the evidence at hand, nor does it mean failing to use PC euphemisms.

During the Hinckley case a psychiatrist was quoted as claiming "Distinguishing between an irresistable impulse and an impulse not resisted is like trying to distinguish between twilight and dusk." I think the same goes for bigotry and common sense. Jesse Jackson said once that when walking down a dark alley and hearing footsteps behind him, he was comforted to discover that the person behind him was white. Was that bigotry or common sense at work? I could care less what you call it. If you prefer the PC euphemism "common sense" for the way you go about thinking about your sisters and brothers, that's fine with me. Language is dodgy stuff anyway.

If you were a juror and had to account for vaginal edema, and a nurse said the swelling was consistent with both (a) rape and (b) frequent sexual contact, would it be unfair for the jury to consider her "dates" as an escort? If the AV insisted that she only stripped on those dates, and the defense was unable to find any of her "clients" to be witnesses and contradict her, would it be unreasonable for a juror to say, hmmm, usually "strippers" who go to hotel rooms for dates are actually prostitutes?

Does this mean that the AV is definitely a prostitute? No. But it is very, very likely.

PB - touche! Though one of the TH (Abrams, I believe) reported that all lax players were deposed and all told essentially the same basic story. In addition, the accused all said "no sex", and the "evidence" to date supports that.

We have no story from the players. Neither Seligman nor Finnerty nor David Evans has told us where they were.

It means he was in the top 10%, I think, of his graduating class. It is an accomplishment, no question, but one that does not necessarily signify anything.

the injuries of various kinds she sustained also can be regarded as evidence.

The injuries she didn't sustain are far more telling. She alleged that she was struck in the face, strangled, and kicked repeatedly as well as raped. Yet the only injuries discovered by the medical examiners, aside from diffuse vaginal swelling, were a small cut on one knee and a minor abrasion on one heel.

Why is it so hard for people to believe that in an environment where a large amount of alcohol is consumed a sexual assault couldn't take place?

The words "prostitute" and "whore" have been tossed about here, as have various allegations of popular mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. PTSD and MPD of course get thrown in. Then there's the drunkenness, the prior "false allegation," and the accusation the she tried to run over a police officer. All these claims are speculative and not one has been "proven" to borrow a term of Bob In Pacifica's relating to the AV's "character."

but I do think that there is quite a bit of evidence to support the legitimacy of the claim.

Exactly. She alleges "anal rape" but no anal injuries were found. What is more likely to cause injury here, anal rape or vaginal rape? Of course, the AV supporters will insist that KY Jelly was used which is what "imho" seems to be getting at with her constant remarks about "Kim being passed the KY Jelly". I would think that even with KY Jelly, there'd still be significant injuries to her anus.

"the report also shows inconsistencies with the story from the second dancer, Kim Roberts. The alleged victim called her "Nikki" that night. According to the report, neither woman told police that Roberts also performed at the lacrosse team's party."

Liars like to add little details to thier stories to make them sound more "credible", but often it's these little details that eventually come back to bite them in the ass.

In a profanity-laced tirade Monday morning, Nifong told one of Evans' attorneys that he was unhappy with the Friday news conference. In addition to discussing the test results, Cheshire accused someone in the District Attorney's Office of leaking the test results to the media. "Nifong told lawyer Kerry Sutton that he would do no more favors for Cheshire. The comment and the swearing could be heard clearly across the sixth floor of the courthouse. A short time later, Cheshire tried to get a few minutes with Nifong but was told the prosecutor was not available. "Cheshire acknowledged the bitterness at the news conference. "'After Mr. Nifong made all his statements and we heard there were going to be indictments, we called over and tried to talk to him, and he refused to talk to us. He's refused to look at the exculpatory evidence, and when there is someone who will simply not act professionally and discuss things with you in a professional way, how else do you do things?' Cheshire said. "'When you have someone's life in your hands, anybody who would say it's not war is not somebody I'd want representing me.'" Is that report accurate, Mr. Nifong? Was there MORE that could have been reported, Mr. Nifong? On the Monday morning (May 15) after the Friday news conference, did you have a meltdown and scream obscenities like a raving lunatic at Kerry Sutton? The Kerry Sutton who is a defense lawyer and had been a friend and campaign supporter of yours? Were you so in the lady's face that your spit landed on her? Do you customarily spit on other attorneys?

Did you use the MF word

? Did you suggest that you would perform a sex act involving her? Were there witnesses? Do you really think you have been fair and objective with respect to the Duke case?

IMHO, What do you think is a likely scenario (with all of the issues on the table currently) that a.)makes a rape having occurred possible, b.) makes a rape as described early on by Nifong possible, and c.) makes it possible for said rape to have been committed by the three in question?

I haven't been following too closely today, can someone tell me: what is the timing of the change from Matt, Brett and Dan, as the rapists to an "Adam" compared with the DNA results being received by the DA?

LOL! "imho" is still talking about the "Kim assisted in the rape" non-issue, trying to focus attention away from the real ISSUE -- that Kim TRIED and FAILED to corroberate the AV's story by adding "I went back in to look for her but couldn't find her" (just ridiculous). She couldn't corroberate the CENTRAL part of the AV's story, something that she would have witnessed if it were true -- that 3 men grabbed Kim and separated her from the AV as they tried to hold on to each other. That can only mean that she's LYING! ABOUT EVERYTHING RELATED TO THE RAPE ALLEGATION!! It's DEVASTATING and you know it!

FILAN: Well that's the thing. You've always said to me what do you want to see, if you could see if for yourself, what would you want to see? I would want to see the accuser's statement. I'd want to see the nurse's report. You've seen both. Let's take a look. The accuser's statement to the police--the boys hit and kicked me. Matt grabbed me and looked and me and said sweetheart you can't leave. He grabbed the back of my neck and said I'm going to kill you (BLANK) (BLANK) if you don't shut up. They started kicking me in my behind and my back. Matt hit me in the face while Dan and Brett kicked me. But then what she says to the Duke Medical University Center, to the doctor...

"Shortly after going back into the dwelling the two women were separated. Two males, Adam and Matt pulled the victim into the bathroom. Someone closed the door to the bathroom where she was, and said "sweet heart you can't leave." The victim stated she tried to leave, but the three males (Adam, Bret, and Matt) forcefully held her legs and arms and raped and sexually assaulted her anally, vaginally and orally."

Any conflation of her as a symbol of something, by supporters or not, goes away from the facts of the case.

The alleged victim called her "Nikki" that night. According to the report, neither woman told police that Roberts also performed at the lacrosse team's party.

I don't buy it with regard to Nifong because it has been said here by a poster that attended law school with Nifong that he was in the bottom half of the class. No way that someone in a law school class could be that far off with regard to the scolastic accomplishment of another student. I have read the same elsewhere, i.e., Nifong stupid ass in the bottom half of class at UNC.

I want to the the source on this from imhofong and citing to Nifong's website is not going to cut it.

Another indication of law school class rank is whether or not a student was on law review. Law review editors are the top performing students. Nifong was not appointed to Order of the Coif and was not on law review.

If IMHO really wants to demonstrate Nifong's intellegence/achievement the official SAT, LSAT and Multistate Bar results exist and are available to the individual upon request. The law school transcripts would also be available. (Wonder what Nifong got in Crim law or Con law?)IMHO seems to have insider info/ contact.

People who care about their impact on a community give to charities.

So, if IMHO wants to demonstrate that I am wrong about Nifong's charitable giving and character, there is an objective measure.

In the absence of objective evidence of Nifong's intelligence, law school achievements and charitable givings, I agree with Newport's opinions, and can only conclude that Nifong is narrow minded, venial, vengful, etc.

Because she has been elevated to the status of a symbol of a social movement, all those vague forces opposed to that movement must in fact be working against the AV.

However, it is absolutely reasonable for the jurors to consider the evidence of her "dates" as a possible alternative explanation for her injuries.

BTW, the rape shield laws generally provide an exception to the consideration of a woman's sexual history if the sexual acts possibly explain the woman's injuries.

That perhaps explains why we're seeing such effort put into convicting the defendants of racial vilification, consorting with potential false accusers, being defended by snotty types on the media, exercising the right to counsel, exercising the right to silence, and other matters with which they have not been charged.

Two weeks later, District Attorney Michael Nifong, running for re-election, equated the incident with cross burnings and a quadruple homicide that had occurred in the previous year, making national news and prompting Jesse Jackson to come to the accuser's aid. Over the next five weeks, Nifong asserted that the charges were true and that lacrosse team members were "hooligans" covering up a crime.

It's not too late to bring more charges against the indicted players or to charge their teammates.

Nifong let us know about the inconclusive match to Dave Evans before the report was released to the defense.

"To me, rape is the most hated crime there is, and to be accused of that is completely horrifying," Zash says. "But nobody wanted to hear the truth. They wanted us to admit something that did not happen, and they wanted to see us pay for it."

Is it that the "stripper" is presumably getting paid for these dates that it is reasonable to consider her v@gina could be injured during one of them?

If she had been white and named Evans, she wouldn't have been running with the crowd she was in at age 14. She would have gotten a lot better care for any mental conditions she had. She would not have ended up doing one-on-ones to support her children.

Lawyers trying to quash subpoenas Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong issued to Duke University soon will have their day in court. Nifong scheduled a July 3 hearing on the issue Tuesday, indicating he would fight to keep the subpoenas alive so he could glean potentially critical information in the Duke lacrosse rape case.

imho concocted:

It's not too late to bring more charges against the indicted players or to charge their teammates.

You're welcome to try. You may have some slight difficulty in prosecuting. None of the things I listed are offences in North Caroina and 2 of them are rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.

That perhaps explains why we're seeing such effort put into convicting the defendants of racial vilification,

Hate crimes are often more severe than other forms of violence, and can be traumatic to the survivor in different ways than other forms of sexual assault.

In addition to placing added psychological stress upon the survivor, hate crimes differ from other forms of assault because they are classified and prosecuted differently under state and federal law. It is important to be aware of your rights if you think that you have been sexually assaulted because of your real or perceived classification in a certain group

ROBERTS: I can't say for sure if they requested white girls, but I know that at least one white girl was requested and the other girl that they expected was Hispanic. And being than I am of mixed race I'm sure that they assumed I was the Hispanic one and they were, of course, waiting now for the white girl to arrive. And almost it's kinda funny, because almost as soon as all this conversation is going on, and lo and behold here comes the other dancer around the corner and she's obviously not a white girl.

WILLIAMS: Are they upset? Did they object?

ROBERTS: Yeah, they are very hesitant now if they want to continue with this, they they're not exactly sure , you know, so, anyway they decided, you know, to go for it.

Matt grabbed me and looked at me. He said, 'Sweetheart, you can't leave.' He grabbed the back of my neck [and said, 'I'm going to kill you, n----- b---- if you don't shut up"...]They started kicking me in my behind and my back...[Matt hit me in the face while Brett kicked me."]

The editorialist either didn't know, or didn't see fit to say, that the only thing the defense lawyers didn't reveal was the medical evidence and that they asked the judge to make that public.

By all appearances, the sexual assault case against three members of the Duke University lacrosse team involves serious prosecutorial misjudgment, if not downright misconduct. Michael B. Nifong, the Durham County, N.C., prosecutor, made public accusations long before the conclusion of the investigation and now forges ahead even as DNA, witness statements, medical reports and other evidence lead impartial observers to find the case ridiculously weak. Sadly, such conduct is not uncommon. Prosecutors blatantly or subtly overstep professional bounds all too frequently. In a 2003 study, the Center for Public Integrity found that, since 1970, trial and appellate courts cited prosecutorial misconduct as a factor when dismissing charges, reversing convictions or reducing sentences in more than 2,000 cases. In thousands more, courts labeled prosecutorial behavior inappropriate but upheld convictions nevertheless. Maybe such shenanigans will seem unsurprising -- just a case of lawyers being lawyers. As the joke goes, what's the difference between lawyers and liars? The pronunciation. (I can make the joke. I'm a lawyer.) But prosecutors are supposed to be different. They are public servants who are supposed to be committed to justice rather than the single-minded pursuit of victory. The Supreme Court has referred to their "twofold aim": to ensure that "guilt shall not escape or innocence suffer."

MSNBC GRAPHIC "DUKE UNIVERSITY RAPE INVESTIGATION ACCUSER'S STATEMENT TO POLICE Matt grabbed me and looked at me. He said, 'Sweetheart, you can't leave.' He grabbed the back of my neck [and said, 'I'm going to kill you, n----- b---- if you don't shut up"...]They started kicking me in my behind and my back...[Matt hit me in the face while Brett kicked me."]

• racial vilification, consorting with potential false accusers
• being defended by snotty types on the media
• exercising the right to counsel
• exercising the right to silence

MSNBC GRAPHIC "DUKE UNIVERSITY RAPE INVESTIGATION ACCUSER'S STATEMENT TO POLICE Matt grabbed me and looked at me. He said, 'Sweetheart, you can't leave.' He grabbed the back of my neck [and said, 'I'm going to kill you, n----- b---- if you don't shut up"...]They started kicking me in my behind and my back...[Matt hit me in the face while Brett kicked me."]

• racial vilification, consorting with potential false accusers
• being defended by snotty types on the media
• exercising the right to counsel
• exercising the right to silence

The ineffable IMHO wrote:

Is it that the "stripper" is presumably getting paid for these dates that it is reasonable to consider her v@gina could be injured during one of them?

Who said it was injured? Diffuse swelling is a condition, and apparently not an abnormal one.

Posted by jk June 20, 2006 10:39 PM

IMHO,

It would be unreasonable for a jury to say, in a vacuum, the mere fact that she had sex with other men means it was impossible that she was raped, without considering any other evidence (e.g., forensic evidence concerning the alleged assault, the consistency and credibility of the alleged victim's story, what other witnesses say, etc.).

However, it is absolutely reasonable for the jurors to consider the evidence of her "dates" as a possible alternative explanation for her injuries.

BTW, the rape shield laws generally provide an exception to the consideration of a woman's sexual history if the sexual acts possibly explain the woman's injuries.

imho concocted without sourcing:

MSNBC GRAPHIC

"DUKE UNIVERSITY RAPE INVESTIGATION ACCUSER'S STATEMENT TO POLICE

Matt grabbed me and looked at me. He said, 'Sweetheart, you can't leave.' He grabbed the back of my neck [and said, 'I'm going to kill you, n----- b---- if you don't shut up"...]They started kicking me in my behind and my back...[Matt hit me in the face while Brett kicked me."]

FILAN: Well that's the thing. You've always said to me what do you want to see, if you could see if for yourself, what would you want to see? I would want to see the accuser's statement. I'd want to see the nurse's report. You've seen both. Let's take a look.

The accuser's statement to the police--the boys hit and kicked me. Matt grabbed me and looked and me and said sweetheart you can't leave. He grabbed the back of my neck and said I'm going to kill you (BLANK) (BLANK) if you don't shut up. They started kicking me in my behind and my back. Matt hit me in the face while Dan and Brett kicked me.

We don't know that. In the discovery, there may be photographs of the patient that show injuries or signs consistent with sexual assault. Dan hasn't mentioned if there are any photographs included in the medical reports.

You "journalists" made yourselves look stupid by not questioning the defense spin and good luck with the ethics violations, chumps.

Leaked by whom? Dan Abrams?

The real shock is in a bathroom shared by the three residents and a whole mess of guys a few nights earlier the only DNA they found was 1.)on a towel, 2.)on the floor and 3.)on the fingernail. The nail DNA is a partial match to Evans and of the remaining two, one or the other is from semen. Either one could be a match for Evans.

You can be sure a jury will know all of that when THEY make a determination about their credibility.

Curious move on the part of the defense to step up Abrams' role when things are going so well for them. Hmmm?

What part did the players, have in affording this one woman the opportunity to smear Duke University, destroy the reputation of the entire Duke lacrosse team, turn three players' lives upside down, their reputations reduced to a shell of their former reputations, get Evans canned, and cost their parents a lot of money?

Innocent people have been incarcerated for very long periods. These players will be getting off relatively easy if she recants before that happens. It's the price of our justice system and the choices one is afforded. They chose a legal strategy, and if they are innocent, so far, it hasn't worked out for them. If they are guilty, it probably will.

ABRAMS: And also, I mean that's not the only contradiction. I mean depending on which story she's telling, depending on which time she's telling the story, it changes, meaning she went to the UNC Medical Center and there's a report about that from March the 15th, and the doctor there says she reports hitting her head on the sink and that that's how she may have had certain injuries.

Would everyone please stop responding to imho. She is so hateful against those boys that it is no longer even the slightest bit amusing what she is saying. IMHO has revealed herself to be a racist (viciously anti- white)and a man hater with her recent idiocy. Conversing with her only encourages more of her lunatic fringe behavior.

The real shock is in a bathroom shared by the three residents and a whole mess of guys a few nights earlier the only DNA they found was 1.)on a towel, 2.)

Would everyone please stop responding to imho.

Would everyone please stop responding to imho

why yes, we do know that, for a fact. the medical reports referrenced in his news conference didn't even exist at the time he opined on them, discovery came later. pay attention here.

it would have been leaked by someone, probably some low level employee in the DA's office, for a nice piece of change, to a tabloid. i guarantee it. if you truly think it would remain a secret, i have a bridge for sale.........

tell you what dear, i am so certain a jury will never hear any of this, because it will never get to trial, i'm willing to bet you actual money. just contact TL for my e-mail address, so we can make arrangements. i always bet a sure thing.

so, according to you, having their lives destroyed is a "small price to pay" for the lies of another? hmmmm, not quite sure i agree with that. exactly what other "strategy" should they have taken, other than a "legal" one? i could be wrong, but i think that's pretty much the only option available to them, unless you're aware of another

if it turns out the AV is lying, none. were they coarse and vulgar? yep, that appears to be an indisputable fact. last i heard, that's not a criminal act. if it is, we're all in big troube. aside from that, they did nothing to deserve this.

Hate crime, LOL!!! the only one who should be prosecuted for that is imho, but I doubt the prosecutor for San Fran or Marin County would be up for it. Just guessing there, of course.

Some people might look on such a scenario - the "boys" being falsely accused, eenie meenie miney moe style, at that, as just plain bad luck. As my granny used to say, "You make your own luck."

Curious move on the part of the defense to step up Abrams' role when things are going so well for them. Hmmm?

Orinoco would consider your guessing where I live to be stalking. I consider it flirting.

Anyway, she may not have been describing a physical injury that could be seen but rather a general feeling of "pain", as she did to another doctor apparently. Don't get your hopes up. Susan has read Dan's notes and makes no mention of additional injuries. She's pretty objective.

With a release from the patient they could have had access earlier than that.

People like imho are every bit as racist as the Aryan Nation and other such groups, they just don't see it that way.

Would everyone please stop responding to imho. She is so hateful against those boys that it is no longer even the slightest bit amusing what she is saying. IMHO has revealed herself to be a racist (viciously anti- white)and a man hater with her recent idiocy. Conversing with her only encourages more of her lunatic fringe behavior.

Right on Barry, yesterday it was the @#$%# bathroom "error"

and today it's back to playing the race card. That's what people like imho do when the facts don't turn out as they hoped they would.

But one can be reasonably sure that there was no such release from the AV because if there had been, a subpoena would not have been necessary.

But one can be reasonably sure that there was no such release from the AV because if there had been, a subpoena would not have been necessary. Do you get that? Go back to the HIPAA comments if you are not convinced of how that works.

mr. nifong stated that he provided, in his prior news conferences, all the information available at the time. demonstrably not a true statement. as has been noted before, he referrenced the results of a medical report not yet in existence.

My guess is that the defense may have learned of Nifong's email response to Newsweek, regarding the lack of skepticism, etc. from media who believe the defense's depiction of the evidence. Their response was to allow a representative of said media actually to see the discovery and draw his own conclusions. To me the timing is based on that

Yes. This is a dark day for my university, which I love very much, and, you know, sorry to have to cover a story like this, but I can't let my personal affiliations prevent us from covering what is an important story down at Duke University.

ABRAMS: This case has become an outrage. That's what this case has become. After seeing this statement...

GOSLEE: Then why have they not dropped it, Dan?

ABRAMS: ... this case is...

GOSLEE: Why have they not dropped it?

ABRAMS: Believe me, if I had the answer to that question, I would not be ranting on this program all the time...

You may as well just come out and say the word "Nazi" at this point.

Is it time to invoke Godwin's Law?

Is it time to invoke Godwin's Law?

Posted by Newport June 21, 2006 09:55 AM People like imho are every bit as racist as the Aryan Nation and other such groups, they just don't see it that way.

How about a "college girl" with an active social life? What if she went out with seven different men in the week before she claimed she was raped. If she says none of the dates involved v@ginal sex is it absolutely reasonable for the jurors to consider the evidence of her "dates" as a possible alternative explanation for her injuries? How about a married woman that slept with her husband every night of the week preceeding her alleged rape? If she says they did not engage in v@ginal sex is it absolutely reasonable for the jurors to consider the evidence of her sleeping in the same bed as her husband as a possible alternative explanation for her injuries?

Who said it was injured? Diffuse swelling is a condition, and apparently not an abnormal one.

The real shock is in a bathroom shared by the three residents and a whole mess of guys a few nights earlier the only DNA they found was 1.)on a towel, 2.)on the floor.

I don't think the police swabbed the whole bathroom for DNA.

I think the answer in both scenarios is yes. I think the defense is entitled to ask the witness if she had sex in the week or so before the incident, I think the defense is entitled to ask reasonable follow-up questions, and I think it is reasonable for the jury to consider the woman's answers, to assess her credibility, and to weigh that within the totality of the evidence.

Durga - Relax, big guy. It was a joke.

We're getting there. Just wait for the next time imho says something Newport disagrees with...

I'm not of the masculine persuasion. ;)

At last we have the ultimate imhology. Apparently if the case collapses and the AV is charged with false accusation, the present defendants will face trial as the AV's accessories and accomplices. On the authority of imho's granny.

Again it served to make the AV appear more inconsistent than she was. As far as its importance, january, TL thought this article was important enough to link to at the time. Madison, after I emailed TL with the errors she encouraged me to email abc11, which I did.