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Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns

By Jeralyn, Section Crime Policy
Posted on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 05:07:36 AM EST
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The New York Times reported Friday that Taser International announced it will increase the power of its stun guns because some subjects did not become completely immobilized. Taser responds:

Late on Friday, the company issued a statement denying that it had introduced a new model or boosted the power output. Rather, Taser said it was providing software that lets the X26 maintain full power for five seconds of discharge. Prior versions delivered full power for two seconds, then stepped down.

So it's increasing the effect of the taser, not the power, what's the difference?

In related news, a class action was filed today against the company:

The Complaint alleges that the Company violated Sections 10(b) and 20(a) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 and Rule 10b-5 promulgated thereunder. Specifically, the Complaint alleges that, throughout the Class Period, the Company issued a series of materially false and misleading statements to the market concerning the safety of its TASER guns. The Complaint also alleges the Defendants engaged in channel stuffing at the end of the fourth quarter of 2004 in order to meet sales projections and analyst's expectations.

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    Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns | 31 comments (31 topical)
    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 21, 2005 at 11:54:09 PM EST
    I bet that thing hurts too.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 12:29:46 AM EST
    Maybe eventually. Probably at first it's pretty numbing. Not that it's humane at all, especially to up the voltage. Maybe we should start reporting these stories with realistic titles. For this one, I volunteer: "Thank Goodness I'm White."

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ray Radlein on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 12:35:36 AM EST
    The difference between increasing the power of the taser and increasing its duration is pretty much the same as the difference between hitting someone and stabbing them.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#4)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 01:57:57 AM EST
    Yeah, um, from what I recall of last semester's physics class, there's not much of a difference as far as the number of electrons shot into you.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 03:54:33 AM EST
    This does represent a great stock buying opportunity. It closed at 17.47 way off of its 52 week high of 33.45. I think that alone puts it in the "buy" column. Mark W........still the PRESIDENT

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 05:57:49 AM EST
    et al - From the post: "So it's increasing the effect of the taser, not the power, what's the difference?" Actually, quite a bit. Increasing the time by three seconds extends the shock period. Think of touching a hot object for five seconds versus two seconds. (That is not a direct comparsion, but as good as I can do on half cup of coffee.) Now think of making the touched object white hot instead of just hot.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 06:25:22 AM EST
    Well, it sure looks like SOMEONE is getting ready for the potential of domestic protests. Very interesting.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#8)
    by wishful on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 07:15:02 AM EST
    Haven't there been reports of deaths, at the old power and duration of these little money-makers?

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 07:17:57 AM EST
    great weapon for a police state

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 08:25:26 AM EST
    "W........still the PRESIDENT" eW...NEVER legally elected. Thug, mass-murderer, liar, cheat. More corrupt, and less qualified than any president in recent history. Lies real good, if that's anything. Has a MASSIVE machine selling his emptiness, acts of treason, and nastiness as genius. Has done nothing to protect the US so far. Taser increases its sting? Why not just shoot people with Fox tv, let the lies paralyze them. Oh, that's right...already did that.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#11)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 09:35:27 AM EST
    I’m starting to get the feeling PinLA is just some IRC bot written to randomly string together phrases. “Liar in chief … thug tortures … torturer in chief … electrical banana” Like a radicalized uber-liberal Donovan.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 09:43:32 AM EST
    It's kind of ironic that the more innate resistance you may have to this kind of tool, the more likelihood of getting shot with it eventually. Freedom is not free. These things have got to hurt. Haven't seen it mentioned or reported here, but Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske and Seattle NAACP honcho Carl Mark got tasered together so they would be able to negotiate more meaningfully about the use of these devices. They volunteered and took the 2 second version. Neither volunteered for a 5 second jolt. Here's the Link Good story.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 10:53:59 AM EST
    et al - The taser was designed to disable and subdue without casuing great physical harm. It might cause a heart attack if the tasered person is disposed. Has it been used illegally? Yes. But overall, it sure beats getting shot or hit in the head with a club or blackjack. BTW - I don't know if any of you have ever tried to subdue and handcuff someone who doesn't want you to do that, especially if they are out of control on alcohol or other drugs, orm just flat out freaked out. Let me tell you. It isn't easy.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 12:39:02 PM EST
    jim, so thst's how you get your boyfriends home from the bar

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 01:26:54 PM EST
    ricky1756 - Naw, I just tell'em Ricky is coming over. Hugs and hugs. ;-)

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 04:15:42 PM EST
    Do you have experience with subduing folks, Jim? or just making conversation?

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#17)
    by Johnny on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 04:28:06 PM EST
    So is this just slightly less lethal? Whats wrong with training cops to be able to subdue them the old fashioned way? Using their brains and their brawn? Or is it because probably 90% of cops are overwieght, out of shape, and the concept of an "arm bar" or "half-nelson" is way beyond their grasp so they need to grasp at whatever "less lethal" device the state is investing in. The problem isn't devices, it is poorly trained cops.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 05:07:38 PM EST
    Yes, dear CA, in my time in the good old USN, I have had the wonderful experience of trying to get two reluctant sailor(s) under control as part of my Shore Patrol Duty. (Not at the same time, and over 10 years.) Try it sometime. You may even like it. But I would guess that you would wind up wanting a taser, real, real, real bad. John - As I indicated above, it isn't that easy. And size and smarts have a hard way to go against somebody who doesn't want to go. Another way to look at it is this. Why should the police have their bodies abused just because some as*hole wants to resist arrest? As for "half nelsons," this isn't a wrestling match. It is a street fight where the other party may pull a concealed gun, knife or other weapon. And why would the police have to be exposed to a bite from an aids infected person, or hepatitis C? If they don't give up, just zap'em. I would hope the zap isn't fatal, but if it is, consider it gene pool improvement.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 10:00:15 PM EST
    Glad to hear you have first hand experience with subduing folks, Jim. But are there cases where the tasers have not knocked people down? Is there documented reason to up the shock time from 2 to 5 seconds? Subduing folks? Would I enjoy it? No, I don't think so. Like Jesus and most of my heroes, I am just not likely to get involved in that kind of struggle. Brutes have always been with us and we win them over with our love or they kill us. Either way, the outcome is not the most important aspect of encounters.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#21)
    by wishful on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 11:05:23 PM EST
    ca, good point about the outcome not being the most important aspect of encounters. You mention your heros like Jesus. If I recall correctly, He could easily have overpowered his killers. He wasn't guilty of the crime for which He was executed, after all. The final outcome was much more powerful really. We are still talking about Jesus and all He represents, aren't we, though it was the Roman soldiers who seemed to prevail at the time. MLK.Jr, Gandhi, and others also support your point. BTW, didn't TL have a post about an officer tasering a 6 yr old? More training is indeed in order, as well as more rules of use.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#22)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 11:23:34 PM EST
    Now where have I heard that name Taser Intl. before? Oh yeah.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 09:06:43 AM EST
    Thanks, Wishful. I have been understood. Jesus might say, we are not far from the kingdom of God.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#24)
    by Patrick on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 09:15:26 AM EST
    Here's a video of a taser in action link

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 10:38:14 AM EST
    DA writes - "Such a Christian sentiment. Would you feel the same way if the 'improvement' involved a member of your family?" Of course not. But I would hope my family member wouldn't a) be arrested, but if so, b) would have the good sense to not resist. You know, one of the dumbest lyrics ever written was "I fought the law and the law won." CA wites - "Like Jesus and most of my heroes, I am just not likely to get involved in that kind of struggle. Brutes have always been with us and we win them over with our love or they kill us. Either way, the outcome is not the most important aspect of encounters." Well, two incidents in 10 years hardly qualifies me as an expert, but it does give me first hand knowledge on how hard it is to control a full grown man who doesn't want to be controlled. And you must write these things just to give me some grins. Please. You have no natural immunity preventing you from being attacked. And there is no way the police can use a negotiation team everytime there is a DUI or other routine arrest. Oh, Mr. QuickiMart robber, you don't want to go to jail? But we love you... Sure. Uh Huh. :-) And the average belligerent drunk is not Jesus. As for letting them kill us when we fail to win them over with love, be my guess, but include me out of that scene. I am sure there are cases where a Taser hit didn't take a person down, but can't link you one. As I noted way back, increasing the time to 5 seconds might be effective. As for more power, that could be dangerous. I just don't kinow. Wishful - Jesus wasn't being arrested for purse snatching. And there have been cases where the police improperly used their taser. Also when they did so with their guns, night sticks and blackjacks. Convict'em and put'em in jail. And better training and supervision helps.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 12:19:31 PM EST
    All the usual arguments for all the usual 'if they aren't guilty they have nothing to worry about' lies. There is an excellent REAL barrier to the police using their latest fetish to harm/kill innocent people -- lawsuits. After several millions go out of the city coffers to pay for children with neurological damage from being Tasered, these hi-tech electrocution devices will be shelved, along with most of the rest of the arsenal. The main problem with these methods is that they can certainly damage someone's health WORSE than a gunshot wound. As this becomes obvious (and as cities start paying out the nose), these Kerik shockers will be set aside. But hey, Giuliani will have made his cash, and that's all that matters, right? Halliburton and Bechtel have made billions backing the b*stard son of Bush, and his fake war. Mission accomplished. To bad for the US military, but that's what happens when someone who isn't elected (either time) thinks they have a mandate to make money instead of serve the public interest.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 06:51:23 PM EST
    I did twenty years in welfare case work. Family intervention, adult protective services, lots of contact with chemically dependent, mentally ill, just downright angry folks. Never got hit, never got knocked down. Never had the police with me on a call. It was close a few times, figured I was going to get hit, maybe stabbed, maybe shot, never happened. Always just held my ground, tried not to look scared or threatening, slump and relax, chat my way back to safe territory. I actually got sent places where the residents had said they would shoot the case workers if they came back. I don't think the supervisors thought I was bullet proof, just knew how to handle that kind of stuff generally.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 06:59:18 PM EST
    I have a friend who teaches criminal justice at the local community college. He has twenty years as a cop and walks with a pronounced limp which I have never asked about. When I took criminal justice class from him, he posed the following scenario to all the future cops and cop wannabes: You are on patrol, see a guy driving a car who doesn't look right, so you follow, finally pull him over for any pretense because you know you should, but when you walk up to the window, he just keeps his hands on the wheel, won't look at you, won't answer any questions, won't produce driver's license, proof of insurance, nothing. What do you do? After everyone had guessed at how to make this guy respond, or figured a plan to get this guy under control, Instructor Greg, told us the right answer, was: you say, "listen, I don't know what is going on with you today, but I am not going to make it worse for you. Please drive on home safely now." Then you follow at a little distance and monitor the guy to make sure he takes the gift you have given and doesn't make trouble for himself or others. Greg's point was that you may never know what is going on with some of the stops, but sometimes, maybe often, you need to just give them a break and protect them and the public as best you can. Or you can tase them. You figure it out.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#30)
    by Patrick on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 09:44:06 PM EST
    Did Greg add that you have to hope and pray with all your might that the guy doesn't run the next stop sign and crash into a bus load of nuns escorting the children's chior to a benefit for the hearing impaired causing a firey crash that kills all involved. See cause then you end up fired due to dereliction of duty, sued and not indemnified by your department and possibly criminally charged with manslaughter. You can never win every time, and you will never make all the people happy all of the time, so you should do your duty to the best of your ability, so that you can say to yourself, if no one else, that you did your best.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#31)
    by Johnny on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 10:40:52 PM EST
    I've done 11 years of martial arts training, and I guarantee that an unwilling drunk is a lot easier to take down than a sober, calculating opponent. it can be done without being bitten, knifed, shot, or otherwise abused. As far as the police not putting their bodies in harms way, too bad, it comes with the turf. Get them in shape, get them trained, and get them on the streets. As far as the half nelson crack, it is a valid submission technique, if I could remember what it is called in Japanese, would that make it less of a target to you, Jim? By the way, the comment about the gene pool was below even you, Jim.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 24, 2005 at 05:11:47 AM EST
    Johnny - Glad to see you care about the police. That attiutude is one of the reasons the police rapidly develop a "them and us" attutude. And we don't have the time and/or money to provide years of martial arts training for the police. It is nonsense for anyone to even think we should. I also renote my comment that what you have is a street fight, not two opponents bowing to each other before the combat starts. The police have every reason to asstume the person has concealed weapons, is aids infected, etc. Individuals have responsibility for their actions. When told they are under arrest all they have to do is follow instructions. If they do, I will he the first to demand they receive humane and proper treatment. I feel no obligation to protect people who decide otherwise.

    Re: Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns (none / 0) (#33)
    by Johnny on Tue Jan 25, 2005 at 12:29:41 AM EST
    Since this topic is now buried, I have every reason to believe no-one will read it. bit here goes. First, it doesn't take years of martial arts training to produce highly competent grapplers. it takes months. Secondly, I do care about the police, but part of the job is dealing with potentially dangerous people who could be armed. Part of being a road construction worker is being exposed to potentially dangerous traffic situations. Part of the job is also ensuring that innocent people are not stunned stupid. Non lethal submission techniques would suffice. "When told they are under arrest all they have to do is follow instructions." Thats fine, but if I am minding my own business, and someone tells me I am under arrest, they better have a damn good reason. If they threaten me at gun point, tazer point, or what have you, they better produce some damn good evidence. I don't feel as if I live in a country where the best thing to do is go along and "follow instructions" when being told i am arrested.... "It's just a shower guys, no, no, leave your shoes in that pile over there, that's good, just follow the instructions" The number one attack used by people resisting arrest is a haymaker right punch, not sticking someone with an infected needle, throwing feces, shooting a gun or knifing. in effect, training police to deal with the following situations will reduce the need for killing force: * He attacks you with windmilling left and right haymakers; * He grabs you in a standing headlock and starts punching you in the face or, while holding you in the headlock, throws you to the ground, landing on top of you; * He grabs your shirt with his left hand and punches with an overhand right; * He grabs your shirt or lapels and curls them up, lifting you up onto your toes (watch the headbutt here); * He pushes you in the chest sharply with both hands and immediately follows up with an overhand right; * He grabs you around the back of the neck with both hands and either headbutts you or pulls your face down into his rising knee; * He grabs your hair with one hand and begins punching you in the face with the other; * He offers to shake your hand and then pulls you forward so he can stab you in the kidney with the knife in his left hand; * Looking away from you, he begins to turn as if he was leaving only to suddenly turn back and deliver an overhand punch. If he pulls a gun at 10 feet, you are dead.

    Taser to Increase Power of Stun Guns | 31 comments (31 topical)