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Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 08:47:48 AM EST
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I have a brief due today, so you're on your own. What's on your mind?

[Update. This thread has degenerated, it's being closed. Try the new one, and please, try a little harder to say something others might care to read.]

< Judge Orders Islamic Fundraiser Deported | Open Thread Two : The Brief Continues >

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    Open Thread | 40 comments (40 topical)
    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 10:35:55 AM EST
    How about talking about what Bill Gates said about china? "where the money is going" and lets not forget the dollar and why it is where it is? and why is Bush cutting back on education for kids, and the social security deal, which will become a real deal for the few and a robbery for millions of people in 40 years. why at time of so called war our nation borders are opened and lets not forget about asking where is Osama Bin Laden (bush family friend) and the good old pakistani deal with our good friends in north Korean(nuke deal that bush backed without you knowing about it, see w 199i) yes and all this and more so little time to have fun and so much to do. yes the right loves bush for now but just wait and see what comes down the road in 2008, with good old homeland and its new ideas.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 10:59:05 AM EST
    The FCC has Banned the Rapture and fined GOD 2.5 Million and the Holy Ghost 2 cents for putting his 2 cents into the matter. This action is designed to send a clear message to all TV evangelical broadcasters Nudity on TV in Heaven will not be tolerated! :)

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 11:09:11 AM EST
    is there some type of feature available were you can ignore some commenters. Like the AOL ignore button and that individuals comments don't even show up on your scrren. this probably would be an excellent tool for your true constituency. trolling on your site is becoming unbearable.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 11:12:45 AM EST
    is there some type of feature available were you can ignore some commenters. Yeah, there is. It's extremely low-tech, but versatile and adaptable to the needs of individual users. TL posts the names of commenters at the top of their comments so you can see who posted a comment before you read it. If it's posted by a troll, skip to the next one. Haw!

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 11:51:20 AM EST
    Peeved - Let me guess. You defend Ward Churchill. Right? Come on now. Go ahead. Admit it.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 12:34:04 PM EST
    Peeved, one of the reasons I come to TalkLeft is the healthy debate that goes on in the comments. If the comments are entirely sycophantic and just parrot the original post, what good are they? Just because PPJ is always wrong doesn't mean I don't want to hear his point of view . If you want a left-leaning site where all the commenters tend to agree with the post, try Kos. One of the reasons I avoid that site is the hundreds and thousands of meaningless "I agree" comments per post that completely obfuscate anything substantive. Or you could just go to my site and be the only commenter. Nobody likes me enough to comment I guess. :-)

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 12:36:19 PM EST
    My snipe at PPJ was entirely in jest and had <ducking> after it but looks like MovableType ate it for breakfast.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 12:40:26 PM EST
    I don't know if Ward Churchill is worth defending, but if the Pentagon and the White House aren't military targets, than the comparable Iraqi sites weren't military targets either. And let's not forget that Iraq was a preemptive war, as well as that over 100,000 Iraqis were classified as "colateral damage". I would submit that the WTC could be classified as a military target as well. It had a CIA office, it was a communications center as well as a commercial center. Do I applaud Bin Laden's selection of targets, hell no. Is what they did on 9/11 unconventional warfare, of course it is. So disagree with Ward Churchill on facts he made up instead of trying to spin his valid observation as absurdities. War is in the eye of the beholder as to what are its evils. I can't believe that after reading all the blood thirsty, calous generalizations of the Iraqis, not the insurgients, but the innocent folks who have been caught up in this political struggle, that one can have a holier than thou view that all the death and destruction visited on the Iraqi people by our and their governments is justifiable, While some argue the finer points as to whether the Pentagon is a military target. Ask our good ali Putin what he thinks.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by pigwiggle on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 12:46:51 PM EST
    “i personally, am looking for ideas and solutions that support my political leanings” Looking for a bunch of cheerleaders patting themselves on the back? Lazy; let me help you out a bit, here is one more poster you can ignore.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 12:52:22 PM EST
    Conservatives complain about judicial activism. Some of this criticism may or may not be justified, however all sides of the political spectrum expect to have honest judges who respect the law. Having said that, there is a judge, Donald L. Graham, who was appointed by Bush the elder that is out of control. Currently, the system to rein in and discipline judges does not work. I found some interesting links which will conclusively prove that the present system of judicial discipline is a joke. These links describe a well-known problem that needs to be addressed. There is no "judicial discipline" with respect to the federal judiciary and that is a terrible mistake. "Absolute power corrupts." Every other branch of government is subject to some type of discipline except federal judges. Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, who recently appointed a six member commission to study judicial discipline, knows full well that complaints of judicial misconduct are routinely dismissed and NEVER acted on, no matter how bad the alleged and proven misconduct is. Moreover, complaints [section 372(c)] are kept in total secret. Additionally, complaints of judicial misconduct lodged through the appellate process are ignored as well. Judges, or law clerks, give themselves permission not to publish cases, consequently acts of misconduct never reach the light of day. There is no effective way to discipline a rogue federal judge and everybody in the legal profession is keenly aware of this fact. If you want to see how bad the current system is, then read the links provided below. These links will demonstrate every thing that is wrong with the current system. Congressman Sensebrenner and his committee should look into this matter. For really outrageous behavior, read the links below and the documents referenced by the links. Download the documents and save them. here here here here here

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 12:53:32 PM EST
    Peeved why don't we appoint you Censor in Chief. This way you can make sure we all can avoid unneeded strain on our intellect. How about a speed reading course instead! smile just Joking :o)

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    I have a post about Colorado's guide for illegal immigrants here. I catch an organization that supports the guide doing some selective quoting. Also, are you a TalkLeft troll? If so, you're welcome to post over at BigMediaBlog.com when your daily allotment has been reached.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    Horrace Jones, You hit the nail right on the head here. The only disagreement with you that I have is the people who oversee these judges should not have any connection to the current legal or political system, otherwise their oversight will become nothing more than political witch hunting.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 01:21:05 PM EST
    Anonymous at 1:40pm By your own reasoning, Abu Musab Al Zarkawi is a legitimate military target, and anywhere the man goes he is fair game. After all he is self professed "Al Qaeda." That means that Iraq was not a preemptive war and as long as a single Al Qaeda member is in Iraq, we have every right to prosecute this war that they brought to us on 9/11 to the fullest extent possible. [Ed. second post with profanity--I deleted it. Once more this commenter is banned. He is now limited to four comments a day, provided they conform to comment policy]

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 01:27:49 PM EST
    Dagma and Horace Regulate the Judiciary. Hmm. Lets call this new dept The KGB. We can give the job to our Vice Pres Cheny. He has nothing els to do.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 01:39:59 PM EST
    Q: What do the new Bush Medicare budget forecast and ex-Talon News reporter Jeff Gannon have in common? A: They are both frauds exposed on the same day. See "A Banner Day for Republican Fraud" for the details.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by alapip on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 01:41:38 PM EST
    Yesterday Josh Marshall exerpted a George Will article which states that the average return over the 17 years the Thrift Savings Plan has been available for federal employees is 12.1%. Josh made the point that this plan is in addition to the federal retirement system, which would mean the comparison should be to plans set up in addition to soc sec. They both missed the additional point that the average rate of return should be figured as about half of the 12.1 percent due to the fact that the entire amount of contributions is not there for the full 17 years. The amount earning returns only increases as contributions are made month by month. Therefore, the returns should be calculated on the AVERAGE amount in the account which would probably give an average yearly return more in the neighborhood of say 7%. I post this here because I couldn't see any way to submit the info directly to Josh.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:04:02 PM EST
    Peeved - While I agree with you that the trolling occasionally sends me home sick at humanity I would distinguish between those who have true political and moral differences with left wingers (lumping us all into one category for argument's sake), and downright frothers at the mouth. The comments re: LAPD killing a 13 yr.old and re: prisoner abuse are particularly sickening. I lamented yesterday that one shouldn't have to start justifying basic human rights on a left leaning sight advocating prisoner rights. Some days the frothers really get to me. Initially, however, I thought pigwiggle was a frother. It turns out to be that he (I think, as he has a wife and does not live here in Mass.!lol)is fairly knowlegable and while we violently disagree on many issues, provides legitimate fodder for my arguments. It turns out we actually agree on something today!! :) These people exist and, I would assume, vote. Therefore it behooves us to continue to engage in dialog with most commenters, right and left. After all, if we can't answer their often disingenuous name-calling and personal attacks, as well as their platform and basic philosophy, what hope does the country have?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:14:48 PM EST
    pigwiggle at February 9, 2005 01:46 PM Looking for a bunch of cheerleaders patting themselves on the back? Lazy... this is the type of bs i seek to avoid. how sir do you get cheerleading from ideas and solutions how sir do you get lazy from looking which is a verb(or form of, all you masters of english can just jump the heck all over that one) thats the nonsense that comes from you trolls. could you at least be funny or witty, cause knowledgeable and truthful you ain't. btw: you sir have been on permanent ignore for some time. however since you directly addressed me this comment does not violate nor supercede your invisibility. [name-calling deleted]

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:35:14 PM EST
    Posted by Peeved at February 9, 2005 [name-calling deleted] coupled with mfox at February 9, 2005 03:04 PM i will maintain my civility.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:48:57 PM EST
    coupled with mfox at February 9, 2005 03:04 PM
    TL - I don't understand the reference to me - did I say something inappropriate?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by ras on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:51:02 PM EST
    Peeved, If you would rather not have read this comment, just put your hands over your ears and hum for a minute, and we'll both agree that you sure showed me.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:54:30 PM EST
    Wanted to post earlier but all the time and effort it took to use the mouse to scroll past comments I didn't like really wiped me out. Why doesn't the Democratic Party post it's own budget so Americans can compare between the two? It's easier to make a choice when there are two opinions rather than one opinion and a bunch of no, no, no.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:58:13 PM EST
    I must say I would rather see civil discourse from individuals who disagree about the issues. The incessant name calling does become trying after a bit. The issues CAN be discussed without the vitriol.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by pigwiggle on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:58:40 PM EST
    “how sir do you get cheerleading from ideas and solutions” I got it from the ‘support my political leanings’ stipulation. “how sir do you get lazy from looking which is a verb” I could be wrong but from the tone and content of your post it seems you would rather frequent a site devoid of dissent, which in my opinion is anti-intellectual or lazy. How can you be confident in the consistency and robustness of your ideas if you only talk them over with folks who share them? mfox-Peeved was taking the example of some of the more civil folks on the board, you, and omitting the insults before TL needed to. You are hardly inappropriate. “Why doesn't the Democratic Party post it's own budget so Americans can compare between the two?” A fantastic idea, but opposition is easier. Especially when either raising taxes or cutting security spending are the only workable solutions.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:59:24 PM EST
    mfox at February 9, 2005 03:48 PM TL - I don't understand the reference to me - did I say something inappropriate? no i was accepting your rationale.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 02:59:39 PM EST
    And as for Ward Churchill, he has some valid points if you stand back and look through the haze.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 03:07:01 PM EST
    Peeved - Fair enough (with sympathy).

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 03:10:49 PM EST
    A fantastic idea, but opposition is easier. It's pretty rare that either side does more than scream "no, no, no". Emotion is easier to arouse than constructive reasoning

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 03:25:58 PM EST
    "Just because PPJ is always wrong doesn't mean I don't want to hear his point of view ." Hilarious. The fellow has time to consume known, outright lies. Good thing there aren't tens of thousands of innocent people dying over those lies, eh? A debate would be one thing. What you're proposing (and what Jim perenially 'supplies') is the opposite. If you want to get lies, there are plenty of websites out there that supply Jim his misconceptions, and they would be happy to fill you in. To coddle liars in a time of illegal war is to ignore the splattered women and children all over the previous sovereign country of Iraq. How do you sleep at night (unless it's in dreams of white sheets and hoods)?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 03:29:23 PM EST
    Paul meet Peeved. Peeved, Paul.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 03:36:20 PM EST
    hahahahahaha. A big LOL to our guest "host" above. On that note, I'm outta here. I'm not going back to read the Churchill comments - my head might explode.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 03:41:07 PM EST
    Anonymous at 1:40pm would submit that the WTC could be classified as a military target as well...instead of trying to spin his valid observation as absurdities. On which side are you on? The only ones who can come to this conclussion, are our enemies. For such is no idle talk, on this side of the fence.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 04:34:37 PM EST
    Peeved - Somehow I don't think you've been around here very much, or you would know that I am social liberal but a hawk on defense who voted for Bush because I wouldn't trust Kerry as far as I could see him. My comment re Churchill obviously was a way of hinting that you may be hypocrite regarding hate speech, which is what I think Churchill's article is. And if you had been paying attention you would know that I have called for his freedom of speech to not be abridged, but I have also said he should answer for it. BTW - Stating that you have all the information is different from demonstrating that you do. In Vegas they say: Money talks, and BS walks. Hope that isn't to complex. Translation. Say something smart. Paul In LA - Shouting racist and Bush lost the election every comment is not debating. Micahel D - You now have one comment.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 04:45:55 PM EST
    Why doesn't the Democratic Party post it's own budget so Americans can compare between the two? They did for eight years. Put us in a surplus and you fired 'em.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 05:15:22 PM EST
    Che Don't be silly, The Democrat Party's is a Political Party run by private individuals. Our Federal Government is run by our public officials. Both have very distinct operational budgets.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 06:01:22 PM EST
    Peeved, I come to this site because I find it engaging. There is a "give and take" atmosphere and that is healthy as It allows one to challenge his own beliefs and see how you fare in the realm of ideas. I tend to be a social libratarian and fiscal conservative and have a rather jaunticed eye but I enjoy hearing others opinions. The name calling on all sides as well as the "talking points" recitations can get a bit tedious but that is part and parcel of the game. Indulge, enjoy and relax as it can be most informative. By the bye, Talk Left? You run a very nice house here, thank you.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 06:02:46 PM EST
    is there some type of feature available were you can ignore some commenters. Like the AOL ignore button It´s hard work..but if you really have the urge to iggy(!) All You´ll need is: One arm and one paper sheet. Use the arm to hold the paper sheet against the screen, try to cover everything except the name tag. Now you can easily scroll past the "Trolls". Reveal or hide the comments by pulling the paper up and down. Voila! a fully manual ignore function, sustainable by willpower and perseverance. That´s my BS timewasting nonsubstantive post for today, I´m outta here!

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 06:09:07 PM EST
    Peeved, social libratarian? You must like socially acceptable books??

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 06:16:54 PM EST
    pigwiggle at February 9, 2005 03:58 PM ...I could be wrong but from the tone and content of your post it seems you would rather frequent a site devoid of dissent, which in my opinion is anti-intellectual or lazy. How can you be confident in the consistency and robustness of your ideas if you only talk them over with folks who share them? the posts(plural) of yours that come to mind makes that first part of your statement pretty accurate for me. from my original post ...as i already have enough factual information to absolutely destroy that 888 you reps call an agenda... provides the confidene and robustness, no need to engage "talking heads". anti-intellectual never claimed to be intellectual. so how do i become anti-intellectual. ?you know what happens when you make assumptions?

    Open Thread | 40 comments (40 topical)