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'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of Lynne Stewart Interview

By TChris, Section Terror Trials
Posted on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 10:25:22 AM EST
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by TChris

Lynne Stewart had some inspiring words for lawyers (and for the general public) following the government's outrageous prosecution and the jury's disappointing verdict. TalkLeft reported some of her comments here. The full transcript of her interview (and of the remarks of her lawyer, Michael Tigar) is available here. A brief excerpt from Stewart's comments:

I'm still very shook up and surprised and disappointed that the jury didn't see what we saw. But I think, as one my counsel put it, when you put Osama bin Laden in a courtroom and ask the jury to ignore it, that’s asking a lot. We are not giving up, obviously. We are going to fight on. This is the beginning of a longer struggle. I think everyone who has a sense that the United States needs to protect the Constitution at this time understands that struggle. And this case could be, I hope it will be, a wakeup call to all of the citizens of this country and all of the people who live here that you can't lock up the lawyers. You can't tell the lawyers how to do their job. You've got to let them operate. And I will fight on. I'm not giving up. I know I committed no crime. I know what I did was right.

(Italics added.) The interview also includes some pointed remarks from Ramsey Clark, including this:

It is clear that Lynne Stewart and the truth and the Constitution of the United States are all victims of 9/11 and of a repressive government that is taking advantage of the fear that they have helped create arising from that that is destroying freedom in this country.

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    • 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of Lynne Stewart Interview | 38 comments (38 topical)
    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 10:58:16 AM EST
    What a bunch of garbage! This has nothing to do with the constitution but with a bad lawyer who knowingly helped his client communicating with other terrorists. Her client's right to good representation has nothing to do with coummicating with terrorists. Can anyone here see that? I am glad the jurors see that and act appropriately.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:14:45 AM EST
    "I'm still very shook up and surprised and disappointed that the jury didn't see what we saw. " Is he joking? I hope so....

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:15:04 AM EST
    Aiding and abetting the enemy in wartime is not protected dissent. It's treason. Lynne Stewart actively helped a convicted terrorist communicate with terrorists in the field - terrorists holding hostages (including children). If that's what you support, then you need to re-examine your beliefs.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#4)
    by Andreas on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:31:48 AM EST
    @James Robertson: Wartime? Did I miss something? Has Congress declared war? When?

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#5)
    by glanton on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:39:40 AM EST
    Now that we are destined you be in a "War on Terror" for the rest of our own natural lives, as well as those of our grandchildren, we might look at this conviction as but taste of what will become the norm. Definitions of dissent and treason are bound to blur and conflate over time, with absolute loyalty to the party line will be the only sure avenue of safety. Here on out, "civil liberties" dons the garb of a mere bridesmaid in these United States.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:41:01 AM EST
    Andreas - Well, yes, on Afganistand and Iraq. The president has initiated shoot-on-sight orders for Al-Quaeda (and associated) scum. If Lynne "I hope the kids die" Stewart wasn't a lawyer but, say, a whore, would anyone care? -C

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#7)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:43:15 AM EST
    Question to all: Has anyone seen an article about this case the gives a detailed description of the evidence presented? I haven't seen anything yet that goes beyond: She was accused of passing messages from person A to group B. What was the content of the messages? How were the messages shared? How did the government prove it? Small matters, I know, but it seems like something I'd want to know before weighing in on this.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:47:58 AM EST
    Please, all left-wingers, keep defending this terrorist helper loudly and proudly. Our civil liberties are going into the trash can under this Nazi Bush! Her right to aid terrorists in attacking us must not be abridged. P.S. anybody getting the feeling the Democrats will never win a Presidential election again....

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:48:55 AM EST
    Quaker, Good question. From: CNN "Stewart had signed an agreement with the Bureau of Prisons to abide by restrictions that prohibited disclosure of their conversations and distribution of messages from Rahman to third parties. But on at least one occasion, she appeared to flout those rules. During the trial, prosecutors played surveillance tape of a two-day May 2000 visit by Stewart to show she provided cover for Yousry as he relayed Islamic Group messages to Rahman, including a Sattar letter seeking guidance on whether the group should continue a "cease-fire" of terrorist activities against Egypt's government. Prosecutors said Stewart tried to distract prison guards to cover conversations between Yousry and Rahman." And that's about all I've been able to find so far.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 11:56:56 AM EST
    I agree with Quaker. I am withholding judgment until I get more information. Bush and Ashcroft have clearly damaged the Constitution and our rights, but if this lawyer allowed her defendant to communicate with a criminal organization in pursuit of criminal wrongdoings, then ... uh ... yeah, she should go to jail. We have plenty of evidence on how Ashcroft and Bush have damaged the Constitution. We don't need to make up any. I will start searching the blogs for the details of the case.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 12:16:26 PM EST
    Quaker in a Basement at February 11, 2005 12:43 PM ...What was the content of the messages? How were the messages shared? How did the government prove it? justpaul at February 11, 2005 12:48 PM "...to show she provided cover for Yousry as he relayed Islamic Group messages to Rahman, including a Sattar letter seeking..." providing cover could be true, sounds like a reach though. Yousry as he relayed Islamic Group messages ?were they written or verbal? was the passed letter presented as evidence (?or did he eat it?), that would be damming. since she had signed an agreement. JustTheFacts

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 12:19:07 PM EST
    Cliff, maybe she's a lawyer AND a ... TL, if you ever wonder why you are 389th on my charity list, well behind the Salvation Army, food bank, homeless vets, police and firefighter retirement funds, local education, musicians' retirement funds, and the other charities I give to, here is a telling example: "It is clear that Lynne Stewart and the truth and the Constitution of the United States are all victims of 9/11 and of a repressive government that is taking advantage of the fear that they have helped create arising from that that is destroying freedom in this country." It is clear that you are either stupid or dishonest. It is also very Stalinesque to return here and find on a regular basis the dimwitted ruminations of the local herbivores intact while the clever, witty and insightful posts of the so-called "trolls" have been purged. Have nice day...

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 12:31:12 PM EST
    justpaul - I've been following this case for a couple of years and you've summarized the evidence nicely. I don't see how the jury could not convict. First, she was not charged with a crime for anything she did as a lawyer. Passing on instructions to the sheik's gang members and giving press conferences is not legal work; she was doing PR work for him, and that's not what lawyers do. Second, the nonsense being bandied about that the government violated the attorney-client privilege is just that -- nonsense. The attorney client privilege only protects communications for the purpose of seeking or giving legal advice. If John Gotti tells his lawyer to pass along word to a capo to have someone hit, that communication is not protected by the attorney client privilege, and that is exactly what Stewart did here. Third, she explicitly promised the government in writing that she wouldn't do what she did do, so it's a little hard for her to say she wasn't fairly warned. She conspired to break the law in the false belief she would not be caught. Too bad for her.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#14)
    by roy on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 12:59:12 PM EST
    Doctor Ace:
    It is also very Stalinesque to return here and find on a regular basis the dimwitted ruminations of the local herbivores intact while the clever, witty and insightful posts of the so-called "trolls" have been purged.
    I pretty much only ever post to disagree with TL. Those purgings probably aren't Stalinesque, they're just good editing.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 12:59:39 PM EST
    Even the devil has a right to a lawyer.. If she really did smuggle those documents then the lawyer happened to be that devil.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 01:03:00 PM EST
    I´d like to know.. has it been proven beyond doubt that she did smuggle those documents for Rahman??

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 01:05:21 PM EST
    Stalinesque to return here and find on a regular basis the dimwitted ruminations of the local herbivores intact while the clever, witty and insightful posts of the so-called "trolls" have been purged.
    lol thats some funny shizzzzz devoid of reality i like this place lol

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 01:32:19 PM EST
    Keep chewing your cud, hardleft. Stick around for a while Roy, and then comment on the probabilities.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 01:52:07 PM EST
    while the clever, witty and insightful posts of the so-called "trolls" have been purged Well as we can see neither TL or Doctor Ace put Doctor Ace in the category of clever, witty and insightful posts of the so-called "trolls" since his posts are still here.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimcee on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 02:04:52 PM EST
    She allowed herself to be used as a distraction so that Rahman could pass information in Arabic to the interpreter who in turn passed the info along to a terrorist network. In other words she believed that if she didn't understand Arabic that that would relieve her of any culpabilty in this case and she was wrong and wrong-headed as well. She still aided this conspiracy and got what she deserved. That makes what she did a conspiracy to break the rules she agreed to with Rahmans gaolers and also a rather nasty piece of work who looks like a kindly ol' grandma. The jury made the right call despite the opinions of TL. She was afforded a fair trial with adaquate representation of her own choosing and she lost. I don't think she will win an appeal either but you never know these days. Either way I don't see where her Constitutional Rights were abridged in this case, but then again I'm not a lawyer so what do I know.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 02:07:31 PM EST
    Doctor Ace at February 11, 2005 02:32 PM Keep chewing your cud, hardleft. ?did you call me a cow? maintaining civility!!!!

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 02:27:17 PM EST
    Doctor Ace at February 11, 2005 03:19 PM I just cannot resest this pun... Hardleft, what's a metaphor? waiting on 5:30pm central, ok i'll bite. metaphor n : a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity met·a·phor (m t -fôr , -f r) n. A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare). One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler). [Middle English methaphor, from Old French metaphore, from Latin metaphora, from Greek, transference, metaphor, from metapherein, to transfer : meta-, meta- + pherein, to carry; see bher-1 in Indo-European Roots.] met a·phor ic (-fôr k, -f r -) or met a·phor i·cal adj. met a·phor i·cal·ly adv. ?so your answer to my inquiry would be no you were not calling me a cow?

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 02:43:55 PM EST
    James Robertson what do you think that our non government has been doing for well over 30 years? in fact bush helped our terrorists out and so did bill and bush one was dealing with saddam and the list is endless of outrageous things our government has done to us and the world. hey Robertson keep looking you will find it all.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#24)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 02:49:42 PM EST
    Use them both in a sentence. "Ace needs a Hardleft."

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 03:00:25 PM EST
    DocAce - Actually, I think TL has been both clear and (fairly) patient about the whole topic of non-Left postings. Like with that giiiigantic *sshole Churchill it's not a free speech issue because this is a "private institution" as it were. Heck, she only puts up with me b/c I pay to play, as it were. Like a mini-Voltaire, I may despise your speech but, like PBS, will subsidise it. :-) Time for a big alcohol drink for Friday! -C

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 03:14:41 PM EST
    Cliff - Drink it up, it just makes you smarter Dawes - Always on the look out for the truth jimcee - Thanks for clearing that out.. an attorney representing them must agree not to convey the client's messages to third parties (and may be subject to other requirements that also do not affect most attorneys). Stewart announced to the media that her client had withdrawn his support for the then-existing ceasefire between the Islamic Group and Egypt. And made sure she to got caught in the act and prosecuted, way to go.. The gag rules and other restrictions that apply to lawyers working for this set of clients are called "special administrative measures" or "SAMs."

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 03:20:28 PM EST
    cud - Cows belch up a portion of what they have ate, and re-chew it. That's called a "cud." They do it while standing still, with a pensive look in their bovine eyes, as if they were thinking deep thoughts. It is said that if a cow loses her cud, she will die. The things we discuss from time to time. IM - Evidently it was proven to the satisfication of the jury. JustTheFacts and Quaker - See DBL's comments. Now, what will be your wiggle? et al - It appears that we have got what we wanted. I have no love for Ms Stewart, and have even less sympathy. I just hope that the jury was thoroughly and totally convinced. This was not a trivial case.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#29)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 03:22:13 PM EST
    It is clear that you are either stupid or dishonest. How's the Dale Carnegie course going, Ace?

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 03:35:35 PM EST
    I think Ms. Stewart is confused. No one is attempting to "lock up the lawyers". There is, however, a good likelihood that one specific lawyer is going to be locked up for crimes she has been found guilty of. I know it's hard to distance yourself from things when you are the center of them, but blowing this up into a threat against all lawyers, most of whom do not commit overt criminal acts, is hyperbole run amok.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#31)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 03:38:51 PM EST
    “A major part of the prosecution's case was Stewart's 2000 release of a statement withdrawing the sheik's support for a cease-fire in Egypt by his militant followers.” Could a lawyer explain how this would be part of defending Mr. Abdel-Rahman. To a plebeian such as myself this seems little different from a mobster calling for a score settling or a hit through their lawyer.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 06:49:43 PM EST
    Fred Dawes said: "James Robertson what do you think that our non government has been doing for well over 30 years? in fact bush helped our terrorists out and so did bill and bush one was dealing with saddam and the list is endless of outrageous things our government has done to us and the world. hey Robertson keep looking you will find it all." Hmm, that doesn't seem to address my point (scroll up, follow the link I posted). So you disagree with the last 30 years of politics? So what? That has zip to do with what Stewart did. As for TL's support for Stewart, I'm mystified. She aided and abetted a terrorist - moreover, a terrorist who would shackle women into virtual slavery given half a chance. Stewart seems to not only be evil, but self loathing. Fascinating to see TL on board with that.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 11, 2005 at 07:50:35 PM EST
    James - It's not virtual slavery, it is actual slavery. In Saudi the women can't drive, go out without a male relative, weren't allowed to vote, cannot run for office, and are forced into sexual relationships (marriage) by their fathers wishes. Oh, yes, and they can apparently be killed at a whim justified by the Religion of Peace (tm). Pretty much not that different from the black experience in America except for picking cotton. -C

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 12, 2005 at 12:22:37 AM EST
    that republican conservative humor, yeah it is hard for me to get when one of you guys attempt it, because everthing you say is somewhat humors to me, if it wasn't for the seriousness of the issues involved i'd be laughing so hard i would never type. metaphor = meadow for giggle, giggle hey you have a good and safe weekend!!!

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 12, 2005 at 02:25:53 AM EST
    OK.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 12, 2005 at 06:33:15 AM EST
    The president has initiated shoot-on-sight orders for Al-Quaeda (and associated) scum. Yes Cliff because terrorists are so easy to pick out of a crowd. Should we just kill them all? Figure it out after wards? as IM said, drink up!

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 12, 2005 at 07:33:05 AM EST
    For some contrasting viewpoints on the complicated issues re: the conviction of Lynne Stewart and her fellow defendants in view of how they were initially charged and then convicted (the political contexts of the convictions), I find some strong ironies reading these articles one after the other here (Scroll down for connections between the situations of Lynne Stewart and Ward Churchill), here, and here. For a pre-9/11 perspective on "witch hunts," check this out. (The specific targets of intolerance are different, but the phenomenon is similar.) As I understand this controversy, those questioning the verdict in the Stewart et al. case are not all necessarily saying that the jury was incorrect in finding them "guilty" of the "crimes" that they were charged with; many sensible non-radical people all along have been questioning the manner in which Stewart and the others were possibly entrapped and prosecuted by the Bush/Ascroft "Justice" Department so as to result in a pre-determined (and orchestrated) outcome. Stewart may have made the "mistake" of falling into their trap and thus can be construed as "guilty" of the "crime" with which she was charged; but many see the charges themselves as "trumped up" purposely because the government was "out to get her" and knew exactly how best to do it. Basically, they "used" her in an effort to "incriminate" her. [One interpretation.]

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 12, 2005 at 10:10:06 AM EST
    What entrapment? She signed an AGREEMENT not to do it. I am sure they explained to her why. And it does not take a genius to understand it is a BAD thing to help the chief terrorists talk to other terrorists. She deserved the conviction and I hope lawyer in the future will stick to the LAW and don't do anything else to help terrorists.

    Re: 'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 12, 2005 at 12:36:12 PM EST
    Patriot Act Potheads?

    'You Can't Lock Up the Lawyers': Transcript of Lynne Stewart Interview | 38 comments (38 topical)