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Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal

By Jeralyn, Section Legislation
Posted on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 04:49:28 PM EST
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The preznit thinks he's on a roll today. Not only did he send his judicial wish list in, he's asking Congress to renew the Patriot Act.

The ACLU says " not so fast."

While 10 percent of that act is set to sunset at the end of this year, we should be mindful that Congress specifically designed those controversial provisions to expire so that cooler heads could examine, review, and-- if warranted-- amend and renew them.

The president and the attorney general must realize that security and liberty are not - and cannot - be mutually exclusive. Most of the Patriot Act is innocuous from a civil liberties viewpoint, but a few select powers raise constitutional red flags. They should be fine-tuned to give law enforcement the tools they need, but also protect our freedoms and liberties. A system of proper checks and balances must be preserved.

We hope that the new attorney general will truly engage in public debate and ensure that we protect the rights enshrined in our Constitution. Such a dedication does not "weaken our resolve in this new war," as the president has said. It recommits us to ensuring that we remain both safe and free.

ACLU: Safe and free.

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    • Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal | 26 comments (26 topical)
    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#1)
    by pigwiggle on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 05:15:06 PM EST
    Come on, how bad could it be? After all, patriotism is a good thing, right?

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#2)
    by norbizness on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 06:20:30 PM EST
    Who knows, maybe somebody in Congress has actually read the thing by now.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#3)
    by DonS on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 06:33:20 PM EST
    "I don't even want to hear you morons talk about why this shouldn't be renewed." That's right dude. What's good enough for the moron-in-chief should be good enough for the rest of us huh? Get a brain!

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 06:52:10 PM EST
    TL - I wish you wouldn't say things like "preznit" - it's more like what you might read at the silly sites. I think your command of language is better than that. -C

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 07:06:57 PM EST
    TL - Just how much would it cost to silence the likes of Cliff? We might get a kitty going here.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 07:10:55 PM EST
    Gotta agree with Cliff there. I expect it from the posters not the hostess.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 07:15:31 PM EST
    We will live to regret that god awful act. My only wish is that they would give it an apt title, something like the "Domestic Spying Act". Calling it the "Patriot Act" insults our collective intelligence. I've given up trying to convince people freedom is worth a little risk.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#8)
    by dead dancer on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 07:18:28 PM EST
    I agree with Cliff. "preznit" is too silly. How about $*#@? Maybe "preznit" isn't so bad after all. "We must not allow the passage of time or the illusion of safety to weaken our resolve in this new war" What recent accomplishments can we point to in this new war against terrorism which were a direct result of the Patriot Act?

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#9)
    by ras on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 07:37:21 PM EST
    Dead Dancer, There have been zero major terror attacks in the US since 9-11. That's a pretty good accomplishment. Would you prefer if the US took the historical Canadian approach to fighting terrorism,as we did during our "October Crisis"? Cliff, Good point. I hope TL considers it. Lefties really seem to forget (as do Righties, tho not nearly so often these days) that childish insults only cost them credibility and respect and therefore only hurt those very causes they espouse. KDog, If you oppose the Patriot Act, you should be happy with its title. It has an unfortunate Orwellian ring to it, I think. You couldn't come up with a more ominous sounding name if you tried.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 07:38:54 PM EST
    I think my point was not so much to try to chastise TL - it's her house and if she wants to spit in it, fine - but to point out that one of the problems with any discoursive site is that the P(Nazi) goes to 1 after around 10 posts. Starting with "preznit" probably makes the #/posts around 5. Thereby reducing any hope for discussion by half. -C

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#12)
    by ras on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 08:18:31 PM EST
    Dead Dancer, Good q, one which neither you nor I - presumably taking opposite viewpoints - can answer definitively. Think what you ask: what information, that by design is not public knowledge, can we the public cite as evidence? Huzzaba rephrasing: no major terrorist attacks and - rhetoric aside - civil liberties freer than any other country at war that I can recall (see my reference to Canada's October Crisis, above, for ex). Pretty damn good. Not perfect, but still impressive. That's why the Left has been unable to get the politicsal groundswell they seek.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 08:27:30 PM EST
    I feel vulnerable admitting I watch Law & Order, but did you see it last night? It was about the PA and shadow prisoners. The 'zinger' at the end was: "Our own people, on our own soil." Most people will think it's total fiction, but who knows?

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#11)
    by dead dancer on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 08:39:27 PM EST
    Thats not just good, but great. There are many contributors to this: Increased security at our airports and borders. Homeland security advisory system. Strategies to secure cyberspace. A more informed public. etc... What recent accomplishments can we point to in this new war against terrorism which were a direct result of the Patriot Act?

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 08:44:38 PM EST
    Just a suggestion from someone on the right who is willing to accept some of the intrusions of the Patriot Act for the short term- Rather than raising Holy Hell over trying to eliminate the whole thing or weaken it to the point of worthlessness, why not focus on the key thing: The Sunset Provision. There are many on the opposite side of the coin that think of this act as acceptable for the time being, but will not go for any permanancy. Why not focus on adding Sunset Provisions to more of it, keeping those time frames reasonable, and making sure it doesn't become permanent? These are all reasonable propositions that IMHO the vast majority would be willing and able to get behind, and on down the road maybe then your side will have the strength or the climate will have changed to finally eliminate the Act either in pieces or altogether. Just a suggestion!

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 09:24:31 PM EST
    You're not patriotic unless you support the Patriot Act!

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 09:28:44 PM EST
    anyone gets in the way of Bush and Fox its off to prison, oh yes what fun in the empire. The patriot act is evil as hell, do not be fooled what the real evil political agenda is.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 11:00:22 PM EST
    Fred, I haven't heard of any upcoming prison terms for you. Ratherthan continually beating your collective heads against the wall andcontinually marginalizing yourselves, why not try my suggestion? There are plenty of things wrong with the Patriot Act that could well be misused for things far beyond what it was intended for- why not push to ensure oversight and maintain (even expand) the sunset positions? That would sell well out here in red state america. Rather than fight the losing battle, stick in the poison pen for posterity. It well get renewed- the battle should be over for how long.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#18)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 11:13:40 PM EST
    There have been zero major terror attacks in the US since 9-11. That's a pretty good accomplishment. Not from any aspect of the Patriot Act, which has not been used to apprehend or prosecute a single terrorist. But it has been used to circumvent the Constitutional rights of small-time drug dealers.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 12:41:51 AM EST
    Owen, this thing called the patriot act will be used against "we the people"... In-order, to attack people in both Red And Blue states, the fact is bush and boys can't attack now, but its coming when homeland gets started in 2008. It's really all about conrol and the next move will be with the help of Fox, and 27 million of his people, its really all about total subjugation of human and civil rights, just wait and see what will happen in the next 6 months, if you think that is insane, just think about something called conquest in culture, and ask why the borders are so open, and ask where in bin laden and why are drugs still coming into the USA, after billions of dollars to fight a war on drugs? remember the jews in 1932 said about Hitler, "he is just a nut" but by 1937 any who could get out did so, the ones who stayed, will you know what i mean right?

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 05:08:35 AM EST
    There have been zero major terror attacks in the US since 9-11. That's a pretty good accomplishment. I'm going to go out on a limb here...first time that's ever happened.. and suggest that there were few major terrorist attacks before 9-11 either. McVeigh was domestic and the only other major attack in recent memory. Let's be practical here. If a group of dedicated individuals wants to set fires or blow things up, the Patriot Act isn't going to stop them. Good old-fashioned common sense and police work, without the PA, will stop some, but there will always be the possibility that the nut cases will get through and do some collateral damage. No, I'm not a supporter of terrorists, nor am I willing to give my freedom to the preznit (Dem or Rep)to take care of for me until he thinks its "safe". I'm merely saying that, in the words of that immortal philosopher Murohy, "If something can go wrong, it will". And that's without even mentioning the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 05:09:15 AM EST
    That last one was me. Sorry.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 06:44:37 AM EST
    Fred- No political party or mainstream leader is pointing the finger at a group of people internally as the source of all our problems (as did the Nazis to the Jews and a catalogue of "undesirables".) Your fears, while always valid and something we as a free people should always look out for, are rather overstated. My point I am trying to impress is that the battle should be to keep this from being permanent- simply because trying to eliminate will be impossible in the current climate. Most Americans either support it or do not care enough about it one way or the other- and we can all agree most Politicians love anything that could be corrupted for their own purposes. Set the stage for killing it 2 or three years from now when hopefully the threats it was designed to combat have lessened or have not materialized- then kill it in pieces as they sunset.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 07:01:53 AM EST
    ytterby...well said.

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 09:19:07 AM EST
    Laws are never killed by the political people, but always used, and as far as the enmey "go's" one people will always find an enemey and the enemies of the state are always killed by the millions, watch what some of the politicos are saying about home rule, watch what bill richerson is talking about without using the name (my people I.E. AZTLAN) Many are as bad and evil as Bin Laden and will kill millions of "We the people" Don't be fooled because you may someday be the "New Jew"

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 12:36:29 PM EST
    Were a just and loving personal God to actually exixt, (s)he would never let Dubya press for renewel of his own driver's license, much less this. Satan surely rules the roost when such incompetence and intellectual vacancy hold the reins. Meanwhile, we redesign purgatory again and again, until we get it just wrong. Filibuster this!!

    Re: Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 01:40:54 PM EST
    Filibuster this!!
    imagining finger in air, and grabbing of the crotch area. lol

    Bush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal | 26 comments (26 topical)