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Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 07:56:30 PM EST
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An emergency stay has been granted pending a hearing tomorrow in the Terry Schiavo "right to die" case. Her feeding tube was scheduled to be removed today.

In somewhat related news, the Supreme Court has agreed to hear challenge to Oregon's assisted suicide law.

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    Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case | 24 comments (24 topical)
    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 07:20:58 PM EST
    Like abortion and gay marriage, Terri Schiavo is one of those issues everyone wishes would just go away.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimcee on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 08:20:15 PM EST
    I would be more comfortable with this case if the husband would eshew any life insurance that he might have kept over the years on Mrs Schiavo. I understand the parent's point of view because their daughter is still alive. What I don't really understand is that if the husband really cares about his wife's life why he wants her to die except that he can then marry another woman and collect on Mrs Schiavo's life insurance to boot. If her parents are willing to care for her then why does he insist that she die? He could walk away and marry his new love without her dying but why does he insist she die? The moral implications trump the legal ones by a bunch. Try to defend Mr Schiavo, please because a hot shower will not wash his slime from your defense.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#3)
    by Johnny on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 08:21:06 PM EST
    This is kind of sad. 15 years this woman has lain in bed,and with the exception of a few biological functions, she is dead already. There is no dignity here, only a misguided sense of protection on the part of Jeb Bush and company... There is no quality of life for either Terry, her husband, or her parents.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 09:23:33 PM EST
    What I don't really understand is that if the husband really cares about his wife's life why he wants her to die except that he can then marry another woman and collect on Mrs Schiavo's life insurance to boot.
    If Michael Schiavo really believes that his wife would not have wanted to continue in this kind of existence, then he would be going against her wishes if he walked away from her and left her to subsist for years to come in this condition. I don't know Michael's mind, but I'm wonder how people can be so sure that he is not sincerely attempting to do what his wife would have wanted. Michael could have divorced Terry years ago and married his girlfriend, if that was all he cared about. As for money, how much is even left? Is that a real issue or a fake one? As usual, lots of people are absolutely certain they know the truth, but some of them have to be wrong.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#6)
    by Walter on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 04:28:03 AM EST
    So we shouldn't let Terri pass over just to deny Michael the insurance money?

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 05:26:10 AM EST
    Her husband is an evil man. He took the malpractise money and lived the life of a playboy. He talks of Tery's wishes. He has 2 kids with another woman, even though he is not divorced. Make no mistakes- the only interest her husband has is in the money.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 05:37:34 AM EST
    Yep, when you settle down with one woman and raise two children -- that's the life of a playboy, all right. So evil!

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 05:47:58 AM EST
    he is not divorced. If he wants to sleep around, at least he can divorce. I cant understand why someone would take up for her husband. He just wants to enjoy the good life from the malpractise and insurance money. Not attacking such people is what is hurting us Democrats. We should have taken a strong pro-life stand here and condemned her husband. We need not be anti- abortion, but we must capitalise on such opportunities ( backing Terri is also the right thing to do)

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 07:51:48 AM EST
    This is a tricky one. I have to say personally and for the record, If I'm stuck in bed, brain dead with machines keeping me alive, please pull the plug. I won't care about any money but shudder to think of someone wiping my mouth (and my ass) for twenty or thirty years. As a correction to you folks frothing at the mouth thinking of him partying while she lays there, the medical/legal issue isn't that he wants the money - no one's talking about that. The issue is that the parents believe that Terri "knows they are there" and "gives responses to them", despite myriad Doctors who all state the medical evidence is exclusively to the contrary. Obviously there is potential for abuse in these decisions - financial considerations for both the hospitals and the beneficiaries that need to be examined closely to avoid confusing murder with mercy killing - which sadly and undoubtedly will happen. There are other important issues at stake here also, such as: Do we want to give the state or a hospital the right to euthanize for financial reasons? (DON'T!). Also, what do we do when someone's wishes conflict with actions that could be deemed "in their best interest". While all of these factors must be examined, I believe they have been in this case - and that it's the parent's time (and duty, for their daughter's sake) to let go. It's my opinion, in this particular case, that her mom and dad (understandably, to a point) just can't bear to say goodbye and are treating Terri cruelly in their selfishness, in addition to being made pawns of in a rash of political haymaking off their plight. God bless Terri. God help her family.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 08:25:29 AM EST
    ...in this particular case, that her mom and dad (understandably, to a point) just can't bear to say goodbye...
    because they have to live with that decision, for the rest of their lives. the act itself is no doubt "murder", but it is something i could learn to live with, apparently they cannot. they husband has shown himself to be genuinely concerned, who here in a like situation, would not want their spouse to continue on with their life. i would venture to guest that if for a few seconds she could muster her strength; she would do a HST. may her family find the strength to do what is necessary.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#13)
    by pigwiggle on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 08:52:15 AM EST
    If this was my wife I cannot imagine waiting 15+ years for ‘permission’ from the state. He would very likely be paroled by now if he had done the right thing, assuming he is sincere about his wife’s wishes.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 10:17:21 AM EST
    Sorry about the blank post...that numpad's "enter" key sits right next to the mouse... Anyway, at issue here is the fact that this woman is not "plugged in." If there were a plug to pull, then there wouldn't be so much of a moral debate. There's a big difference between what happens to a person when her respirator is turned off and what happens to a person when they are deprived of food. No one should want her to starve to death. For Terri to die "humanely" she'd have to be put down like a sick dog...

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 10:43:59 AM EST
    This is a point I didn't mention but does concern me greatly, Peter. I don't know the qualitative and quantitative effects of starving, even if "brain dead". Personally, in her position (again for the record), I would much rather be shot up with morphine (or just shot, period). The feeding tube removal is meant, I guess to absolve guilt from the "life terminator"/feeding tube remover. Nor is there an argument, in this case, of the patient suffering pain that they are unable to express - in which case the feeding tube removal seems a bit more humane. I admittedly don't know the background on Ms. Shiavo's eating disorder which rendered her unable to express her wishes. However, I understand eating disorders almost always arise from a certain family pathology where the child feels they have no control over their life. Assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that her eating disorder existed before her marriage, one might make an analogy between the excess control the parents are attempting to exercise over their daughter's CHOICE to marry this man and give HIM the authority to make decisions for her and excess control over her pre-marital life that contributed to her eating disorder to begin with. A theory, unsubstantiated by fact, but no more fantastic than that Terry "knows and responds to" her parents (no one else apparently) despite negligible brain activity (meaning less activity than fetuses).

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 02:49:50 PM EST
    For Terri to die "humanely" she'd have to be put down like a sick dog...
    besides the obvious differences, what are the difference between a terminally sick human and a terminally sick dog. bout 50cc of morphine, she ain't feeling no pain, drifts off to sleep, and moves on to the next phase.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 06:03:38 PM EST
    It is perhaps worth considering whether Terri's alleged former wishes are still applicable. Consider this, if Terri has lost her cognitive powers, is she still Terri? The fear of losing one's self what we most often refer to when we say we'd rather be dead than a vegetable. If she is no longer the same "person" that she once was, then should her old wishes still be imposed? If she had merely changed her mind, we wouldn't have held her accountable to her original wish...and on some very basic levels Terri has changed her mind. If she is not cognizant of her surroundings, then what is left? Primal instincts for survival? Her brain still functions enough that the body can maintain its basic functions so long as it is nourished--and in that sense, Terri, as she is, currently wants to live.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 07:17:32 AM EST
    ...Primal instincts for survival? Her brain still functions enough that the body can maintain its basic functions so long as it is nourished--and in that sense, Terri, as she is, currently wants to live.
    Primal instincts are probably more reactionary, than voluntary, i.e., a cock roach can live a couple of days with his head cut off, a worm cut in two, both parts continue to exhibit life. the essence of human life is a combination of the heart(physical) and the brain(spirit/soul/conscious) life absent one is not really human existence as we know and appreciate it. there simply is no absolute right choice. absent any additional known desires or directives, Terry's last known wishes should be honored. ?what human merely wants to exist(breath)? we want to live.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 08:11:01 PM EST
    Hardleft: You raise some interesting definitional arguments. Human life is being a human that is alive. Terri is clearly not a wombat or a cockroach or a chimpanzee. She is most definitely a human. If you showed a picture of her to a four year old, they could tell you that. And no doctor in his right mind would take a look at her vital signs and tell you that she is taxonically inhuman or that she is clinically dead. And there are many human beings who are desparately struggling just to exist. Every cancer patient in the world just wants to exist. The tsunami victims just want to exist. The soldiers in Iraq just want to exist. I'm curious to know what quality of life you deem acceptable for living conditions, and why all the starving refugees in the Sudan seem to disagree with you? If merely existing weren't good enough for humanity, then why doesn't the vast majority of the Third World just up and commit suicide tomorrow?

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 04:42:42 AM EST
    Let me ask all of you one question. Put yourself in the wifes place. Would you want to live out the rest of your days in a vegetative state? Trying to remember all of the things that you used to do and how your life was,knowing that you will never be that same person again. My wife and I have discussed this issue several times and she has re-iterated that if this was us going through this, that she hoped that I would not keep a feeding tube in her. I feel the same way. Would you want your significant other to give up all the rest of their days to take care of you and lose out on a big part of their own life. I don't think that this is about life insurance money at all. This man is trying to grant his wife's wish. Let the man do that. Yes it will be hard for the parents but I really don't think that they want to sit there and watch there daughter suffer anymore. This would not be murder, it is taking the suffering away. The women no longer knows who she is or who anyone is around her. Put yourself in this persons shoes.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 04:50:52 AM EST
    Put yourself in their shoes. I don't think that taking the feeding tube out is a mistake. This women will never know what being alive means anymore. Do not make her suffer anymore. I was her wish to have the feeding tube taken out, don't let anyone interfere.My wife and I have put ourselves in their shoes and we are both in agreement that if this would happen to either of us, that we would not want to be kept alive by a feeding tube. This I do not think is about insurance money, or about having another wife. This man has suffered enough just trying to cope with the way things used to be and that they will never be that way again. This women lived a good life, she was a beautiful woman, now she is trying to figure out who everyone is. Would you want to go through this? I personally would not.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 07:51:28 AM EST
    So, are you saying that husbands and/or wives cannot be trusted to look out for their spouses interests at all, or just this case?

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 07:52:06 AM EST
    He cares so little about his wife that he went to nursing school so he could care for her (so little).

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#22)
    by MiddleOfTheRoad on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 10:53:13 AM EST
    Peter, I find myself puzzled, perhaps you could comment on this: if Terry is no longer the same "person", and that means that one should not impose her old wishes, (and my leap is that this is a fundamental change), then what right do the parents have to impose their wishes, which come from who *they* perceive their daughter to be, which has to have changed as part of the fundamental change that you propose make her old wishes not apply? (whew, long sentence.) (I'm not sure that simply breathing can constitute a "wish", but for the sake of argument, I will temporarily treat that point of view as a given).

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#23)
    by MiddleOfTheRoad on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 11:00:25 AM EST
    Peter, I feel compelled to offer my opinion on your implied definition of "exist". It seems clear to me that there is an obviously different level or definition of "exist" for someone who has no ability to move or express herself, or even swallow (according to previous tests) versus someone who can still ostensibly forage for food (if any existed in the proper areas of Sudan), or someone who is clearly fighting for their lives (and the lives of others) in a war zone. From your posts, it's clear you are very perceptive - I personally like to try to avoid twisting definitions to prove a point (although I know I still do it, I will continue to try to avoid it). I don't believe you can use the same concept for the various instances I pose above, even if one can technically put them under the same word.

    Re: Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 09:48:38 AM EST
    From another: Jay Wolfson was just on television (Channel 28) building up Greer, that DCF never had any complaint until now, saying that Terri never had a bedsore and that he visted with Terri for a full month. Ch 28 said I am the only one who has called. +++ From me: DCF needs to investigate this in their probe re: Terri Schiavo - AHCA Coverup Information, materials, etc. pertinent to crimes being perpetrated against Theresa Schindler Schiavo and pertinent to a current DCF investigation listed below: [links deleted, not in html format, phone numbers deleted as well. This space is for coments.]

    Stay Issued in Terry Schiavo Case | 24 comments (24 topical)