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Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard

This is right out of the Twilight Zone--Newsweek reports on Air CIA which flew ghost detainees on a 737 to parts unknown, often and interrogating them for months.

We wrote about this here, the Washington Post covered it here, but Newsweek has a lot more detail - and proof: [link via Cursor.]

NEWSWEEK has obtained previously unpublished flight plans indicating the agency has been operating a Boeing 737 as part of a top-secret global charter servicing clandestine interrogation facilities used in the war on terror.

Read the story of Khaled el-Masri - he was gone for 5 months.

Masri, a German citizen of Lebanese descent, says he was taken off a bus in Macedonia in south-central Europe while on holiday on Dec. 31, 2003, then whisked in handcuffs to a motel outside the capital city of Skopje. Three weeks later, on the evening of Jan. 23, 2004, he was brought blindfolded aboard a jet with engines noisily revving, according to his lawyer, Manfred Gnjidic. Masri says he climbed high stairs "like onto a regular passenger airplane" and was chained to clamps on the bare metal floor and wall of the jet.

Masri says he was then flown to Afghanistan, where at a U.S. prison facility he was shackled, repeatedly punched and questioned about extremists at his mosque in Ulm, Germany. Finally released months later, the still-mystified Masri was deposited on a deserted road leading into Macedonia, where he brokenly tried to describe his nightmarish odyssey to a border guard. "The man was laughing at me," Masri told The New York Times, which disclosed his story last month. "He said: 'Don't tell that story to anyone because no one will believe it. Everyone will laugh'."

No one is laughing now, says Newsweek.

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    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 01:46:17 AM EST
    Sounds like the planes used by JANET Air, the DOD's private airline with nonstop service between McCarran in Las Vegas and Area 51. They are actually dubbed the T-43, purportedly for use as a trainer, but more often used as a combination passenger/cargo jet with a highly configurable interior.They are basically 737-200's refitted with engines that are interchangeable with the engines in other Air Force heavy jets. The Air Force lists 11 of them in their possession, but at least 6 T-43's are in service with JANET Air as passenger/cargo jets.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 03:41:28 AM EST
    Tip of the week. After reading the two previous posts buy stock in tin foil. Bet the ranch. Mark W.......still the PRESIDENT Jeb/Condi08

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 04:41:47 AM EST
    Hmmm, flight plans would certainly prove that a plane flew from point A to point B. (Ok, let's assume ATC at both ends and that the ATC is US-style and requires amended records be filed at both ends when a change occurs.) But Flight Plans are not Passenger Manifests. Nor are they Cargo Manifests. Sorry, 5 years in the shipping/logistics business. :-) -C

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 06:53:48 AM EST
    W.......still the PRESIDENT In name, sure. In function, never. But Flight Plans are not Passenger Manifests. Nor are they Cargo Manifests. And we all know this administration has never enganged in state sanctioned tortue, never condoned state sanctioned murder, never hired Argentinian mercs to make people disappear, never ended the careers of those who don't go along, and has nothing to do with the rise of fascism in the United States. It's obvious that Masri actually won an all expense paid vacation to Afghanistan. While at the cotillion for new arrivals he became depressed that he was not the most beautiful in the crowd. Ergo, the allegations of torture and abuse. Some people just can't be satisfied.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 07:53:04 AM EST
    Klaatu- I don't suppose it was the same "Black Ninjas" that raided Ross Perot's place? Argentinian mercs? That's absurd. I've never seen or heard of any. Where did you pull that one from?

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 08:14:06 AM EST
    Those for whom torture and extraordinary rendition are not a laughing matter might wish to consult the following article: "Cruel Science: CIA Torture & U.S. Foreign Policy" by Alfred W. McCoy, professor of History at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in The New England Journal of Public Policy, Winter 2005. This is an extensive, seminal article that traces the history of CIA torture programs over the last 50 years.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 08:14:46 AM EST
    klatuu - Uh, dude, I suspect the CIA is torturing people, and I know that we are still using Clinton-era rules to ship people to countries that perform torture. And I have some, very minor, issues with that. But flight plans only prove that an aircraft of a certain number took off from A and landed at B. And then *only* if US/Canadian style ATC rules are followed. It doesn't even do that in the US if the origin point is a military airfield or a VFR (visual flight rules) airport. And if the end point is a commercial airport that allows private traffic "at will" not even then. (Some large airports such as ORD or JFK do not allow private traffic not arranged in advance.) -C

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 08:29:46 AM EST
    As I am currently re-reading the all-time classic "1984", I can't help but be reminded of the "Ministry of Love". Orwell, smartest SOB of the 20th century, and a better prophet than Nostradamus. I wish he were alive today, we need him.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 08:57:02 AM EST
    Did I say anything about aliens? Area 51 does exist. It's a test facility for super-secret military hardware such as the U2 spy plane and the SR-71 Blackbird. If you think it doesn't exist, maybe your brain is made of tinfoil. And JANET Air most certainly exists. If you've ever been to Las Vegas's McCarran Airport, you've seen it. They have a private terminal, their own ATC, and they do indeed fly hundreds of civilian contractors to work, as well as cargo, every day in the very distinctive modified Boeing T-43 aircraft. No tinfoil hats here. Just reporting the facts.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 10:06:44 AM EST
    kdog- 1984 is a must read- but I feel the threat of us descending into that sort of governmental hell is far less likely to be realized than the threat of a calamitous disaster being handed us be our enemies. If credible stories start popping up of US citizens being shangied on the way to walmart for 6 months in this regard, then I may well express concern. But this is business as usual, not any different from how things have been under past administrations, incuding Clinton.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#14)
    by roger on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 10:10:26 AM EST
    Dog- Try We by Zamiatin. A lot closer to what W is trying to accomplish, IMHO.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 10:34:16 AM EST
    All things coming out of the government are right out of the twilight zone, the fact is how many may have been U.S., Citizens? the fact is the CIA Has the "mossad" guys kill people here, its been in the media and people just look away and say nothing or little. The ghost detainees at some point would have been killed, and who do you think will be doing the killing? Anyway most of us in this non nation will see a day when politcal prisons will Just be shot down like doys and it will be people you know. "Aztlan anyone"? oh yes the left and right both will be happy to do the murder of a nation. and its people.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 11:00:17 AM EST
    Klattu... this administration has never enganged in state sanctioned tortue, never condoned state sanctioned murder, never hired Argentinian mercs to make people disappear, never ended the careers of those who don't go along, ....etc..etc..blah..blah..blah LOL...yes & none of these things were EVER done before GW arrived on the scene... I never cease to be amazed at just how much power that guy really has... I mean he is actually responsible for all the evils ever done by the US...(even before he was born)... absofreakinlootly amazing. Man o man...you are from another planet aren't you? You can wake up now.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 11:01:36 AM EST
    ...but I feel the threat of us descending into that sort of governmental hell is far less likely to be realized than the threat of a calamitous disaster being handed us be our enemies.
    were already there many from the right simply fail to acknowledge this. negroponte with no oversight, do you honestly have that much faith in a human. bigBrother is and has been in control for quite some time. the coup was done clandestinely at first, but with bushCo the necessity for covertness has been abandoned, resulting in a steady decline of civil liberties, that will ultimately lead to a total suspension of the constitution when the "calamitous disaster being handed us be our enemies" occurs, is complacently allowed, or orchestrated. ?what are the two most powerful agencies in the us government? it ain't the DOJ, the DOD, or SCOTUS...

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 11:14:35 AM EST
    W.......still a failure.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 11:29:37 AM EST
    Hardleft- Personal opinion, Negroponte is doomed to failure. The whole idea that consolidation at the top of the Intel Heirarchy will magically "clean up" our Intelligence problems is oversimplification at best. This was one of Dennis DeConcini's pet ideas from way back when. Something needed to be done to help end a lot of the idiotic turf battles and improve sharing, but adding another layer of bureaucracy with a budgetary stranglehold doesn't seem all that promising. Personally, I feel the biggest two intrusions into our civil liberties came from Social Security and the IRS, and most on the Right think that way.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 12:49:19 PM EST
    ah, the same dunces who missed all the signs pointing to 9/11. no doubt they'll be successful now. cough-bullsh*t-cough. meanwhile, the next big disaster is looming even more clearly, and our leaders don't seem to be paying attention at all. again. link we'll be scratching our heads soon, wondering how we had all our attention in one place, while it was desperately needed somewhere completely different. the folly goes on.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 12:51:01 PM EST
    Clearly some of you don't remember or know of Jose Padilla. He is an American citizen denied due process, habeas corpus, legal representation, among other crimes. If it can happen to him, it can happen TO YOU.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 01:01:35 PM EST
    I thought Padilla had a lawyer, a recorded arrest, etc. I also seem to recall the Courts stepped on the government's case a bit as well. So he has representation, and is being heard in the Courts. I do not think that It can happen to me, as I tend to shy away from dealing with foriegn terrorists, or attempting to market my availability with them. In the not-to-distant past, they would shoot people as traitors outright for what our friend Jose is accused of.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    The innocent have nothing to fear, right Gerry? And government agencies never make mistakes.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 04:33:32 PM EST
    Ian- Government FREQUENTLY makes mistakes. I am of the firm conviction that most of the excesses people on the right and left of this country go spasmodic over, leading to conspiracy theories and spurious sinister allegations can be attributed to simple Bureaucratic incompetence- and there is way plenty of that to go around. To be fair and honest, if Padilla was up for simple racketeering or drug peddling, I would be on the "wait a second here" side of this- but he isn't, and there is by all appearances evidence linking him to murderous thugs we are currently fighting. In these sort of transnational issues I will readily admit to being willing to give the gov't some leeway. These are things all Americans SHOULD pay attention to, and be ready to raise voices when our collective toleration limit is hit. Mine hasn't.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#24)
    by soccerdad on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 04:49:26 PM EST
    Gerry, I thought you were smarter than that pile of rubbish at 5:33 few bad apples, buracratic errors, Geeesh. Give them some leeway. another sheep

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 09:13:38 PM EST
    Soccerdad- Leeway? not necessarily. I fault the government for being incompetent while others see big conspiracies. Personally, I would rather be accused of being devious and smart than just being a derelict idiot- and I bet most bureaucrats would as well!

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#26)
    by Peaches on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 09:22:59 AM EST
    Personally, I would rather be accused of being devious and smart than just being a derelict idiot- and I bet most bureaucrats would as well! Why would anyone care what the bureaucrat prefers to be accused of. Either way, if they are devious or a derelict idiot, they should be criticised and removed if possible. Devious means crooked. It insinuates that they are making decisions outside of public scrutiny because they know the public would not tolerate what they are doing if they had full knowledge. These are things all Americans SHOULD pay attention to, and be ready to raise voices when our collective toleration limit is hit. Mine hasn't. THe key word here is collective. For many people the limit has been reached. For the many others such as yourself, it has not. As SD said. another sheep

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 09:41:51 AM EST
    Thanks Rog, I will. Always looking for a good read.

    Re: Ghost Air: CIA Says All Aboard (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 11:46:07 AM EST
    Peaches- My point I was trying to make is that I feel much of what gets portrayed as insidious our gov't does is usually rooted in incompetence and derilection. One hand of government is frequently working at cross purpose and in complete ignorance of what another part is doing. Many on both ends of the spectrum read things nto these instances for more than what they are-incompetence. Do I fret over the possibility of civil libeties eroding here? Daily, I'm an American. Do I sense that is currently happening? NO. I see the potential for abuse in the Dept of Homeland Security, this new and stupid DNI post Negroponte's been appointed to (doomed to failure, IMHO), and yes, the Patriot Act, but nothing that alarms me (yet). On the last one, I'm acceptable to the Patriot Act as long as it has a Sunset Provision this side of the Decade. Call me a Sheep, whatever. I do my own thinking.