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Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict He'll Walk

American- born Abu Ali sits in a U.S. jail cell, indicted on terrorism charges. The Government claims he confessed to treatening to kill President Bush. (Background here, here and here.)

Law enforcement agents have told Newsweek they think he'll walk. The confession was obtained while he was imprisoned in a Saudi jail, and no American agents were present.

NEWSWEEK has learned that his confession, which occurred shortly after his arrest in June 2003, was videotaped by the Saudis and immediately turned over to the FBI. The tape became the chief piece of evidence against him. But back in Washington, the case presented an agonizing dilemma for top Justice Department officials, sources said.

The problem with this Perry Mason moment, however, is that it occurred in a Saudi Arabian prison, where no U.S. officials were present and where, according to human-rights groups, suspects are often physically abused. One of Abu Ali's lawyers, Edward MacMahon, said after the suspect's first court hearing last week that he personally saw "multiple scars" all over Abu Ali's back, looking "exactly like somebody who has been whipped." Prosecutors deny this, but even U.S. law-enforcement officials admit there is a good chance Abu Ali could eventually walk out of prison a free man.

But the problem may be bigger than that.

If the Saudis sent Abu Ali home—as they kept offering to do—Justice officials fretted the videotape would likely get tossed out of court, and Abu Ali would walk. "We didn't know what to do with this guy," one former Justice official confided to NEWSWEEK.

Their solution was to let him sit in a Saudi jail cell for 20 months with no access to a lawyer and no charges brought against him.

Critics say this is a prime example of how the Bush administration has "outsourced" the detention of terror suspects to cooperative Mideast countries with poor human-rights records.

The only reason he was returned to the U.S., Newsweek says, was that his parents had sued the Government over their son's detention and the federal judge wanted explanations from the Government as to what it knew about his detention in Saudi Arabia. Rather than tell, they brought him back to the U.S.

Newsweek goes on to ask whether this is a proper tactic in the terror war. We can answer that: No. We should not kidnap people and send them to countries that are known for human rights abuses. Period.

While the U.S. insists Abu Ali was not tortured, a Saudi source says differently, depending on what your definition of torture is.

U.S. prosecutors insist that Abu Ali was examined by doctors and there were no signs of abuse. But a source close to the Saudi security forces told NEWSWEEK that the interrogations of Abu Ali had indeed been aggressive. "He definitely got slapped around," the source said. "But he was not tortured."

If slapping someone around isn't torture to the Saudis, where do they draw the line? A slap and a kick? Or does it take a burning cigarette lodged an ear canal before they call it torture?

Everyone describes Abu Ali as polite and cooperative which will be another problem for prosecutors:

Prosecutors will also have to explain how a man described as unfailingly polite became ensnared by terrorists. Abu Ali's family proudly notes that he graduated at the top of his class at the Islamic Saudi Academy outside Washington.

Bottom line:

....inside Justice, many are still deeply uneasy. "I was amazed they did this," one veteran official said. "I don't know how [the prosecution] can be done successfully." Another senior law-enforcement official told NEWSWEEK that Justice was making the best of a bad situation. Even if the case ultimately collapses, an aggressive prosecution might be able to delay for years the day when Abu Ali will be able to "walk free," the official explained.

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  • Re: Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict H (none / 0) (#1)
    by john horse on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 04:48:07 AM EST
    If the prosecution doesn't have the evidence then Abu Ali should walk and walk now. The Justice Department is talking about delaying for years the day that he will be able to walk free even though they know their case is weak. This is after Ali had been kept in custody for at least 20 months. As the old saying goes, justice delayed is justice denied.

    et al - Perhaps the best thing that will come out of this will be national exposure to his high school, dubbed "Terror High," and the network of SA financed schools in the US. If Moslems want to come to this country, they should send their children to public schools and public universities. We do not need Balkanization based on anything, much less religion.

    Right, mandatory public schools. No more private religious schools of any sort. Do you see the religious right going along with this idea, Jim?

    It's stories like this that make plain how important our civil service is. And why BushCo is trying to destroy 100 years of civil service regulations. At this point, it is only the career employees of the government who are offering any brake to the thugs at the top.

    CA - You should remember that too much of anything can cause a real problem. And I have never said the Right was any less hypocritical than the Left. We`are starting to find ourselves on the horns of a real dilemma. There is little doubt that elements of Islam are pouring money into some schools. In the past, distance and time of transit, limited both money, information and continuing influence. Gradually, the situation would correct itself because our system is so superior, and the subgroups would be assimilated. That is no longer true. Communication is almost instantaneous and financial assistance is just as fast. How we will respond to these problems will be interesting. One thing is for certain. From time to time a free and democratic society has to reach into the body politic and say to a group: You must change, and change now. This is nothing new. It happened, to a certain extent, to the Mormon Church in respect to polygamy, and specifically to a southern culture that allowed discrimination against blacks. You should especially remmeber that schools were the battlefround, and some were forcibly desegregated, often under the threat of arms by the Federal Government. I think the Dutch are now getting the picture. Perhaps we will before too long.

    Jim, these are the same kind of arguments that were used to intern Japanese Americans a few decades ago. That action is generally seen as an error in hindsight, even though at that time, many red-blooded Americans were very scared of strange orientals with their godless buddhism and ancestor worship. Do you see a problem with your suggestion that if Muslims are in this country or want to come to this country, they have to send their children to public school? As for your comment on "terror high," links please. I am not familiar with the school or its impact on American life. We seem to be in civil discourse, Jim. What's up?

    btw, slavery and discrimination are American problems, not confined in any meaningful way to the South despite the Civil War, etc. Hey, how do the red states line up with the old slave states? Connect the dots. Racism is alive and well. Right now we may be shifting focus to muslims and brown-skinned arab types, but the story is the same.

    Re: Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict H (none / 0) (#8)
    by pigwiggle on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 09:11:45 AM EST
    “btw, slavery and discrimination are American problems, not confined in any meaningful way to the South despite the Civil War, etc.” Interesting you say this. I’ve lived my entire life having never traveled east of Huston, living in Idaho and Utah mostly. Last week I visited Georgia; I was stunned at the bigotry. I have never in my life encountered anything like that in my life. It’s not about opportunity either, as any racist comment is meet with sound condemnation here; it’s cultural.

    Re: Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict H (none / 0) (#9)
    by pigwiggle on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 09:21:33 AM EST
    “btw, slavery and discrimination are American problems,” I hope you don’t mean uniquely American; I am more than willing to provide stats showing it is on par with that seen in most every western country. “Hey, how do the red states line up with the old slave states? Connect the dots. Racism is alive and well.” I’m in the process of testing the correlation between hate crime and the voting record of states. So far is looks arbitrary and random. How do the slave states line up with this years election results, very suggestive.

    R
    If Moslems want to come to this country, they should send their children to public schools and public universities. We do not need Balkanization based on anything, much less religion.
    So, by this thinking, Fundie Wingnuts should pull their children out of Christian Fundamentalist religious schools, as the majority of Americans are not Fundies, and this leads to "balkanization". Didn't you notice the last election PPJ? Balkanization is a standard tactic for both the left and right in the country. It's all part of the "your either wit' us or agin' us" mindset. Somehow, I don't see your idea being embraced by the most of the Fundies in this country. Some might be short-sighted enough to think it would only apply to Muslim's, and be a point scored for Jesus, but I think most would see it for what it is: A bad idea, and a dangerous precedent. RE: Abu Ali- If the dept. doesn't have evidence, he should be released. Simple. Why is this administration so bloody incompetent when pursuing these cases? How many cases have fallen apart because some idiots couldn't follow the rules gathering evidence or questioning prisoners?

    PPJ: Just how do you justify your hero George Bush's fealty to the the Saudis?

    Why is this administration so bloody incompetent when pursuing these cases? How many cases have fallen apart because some idiots couldn't follow the rules gathering evidence or questioning prisoners?
    therein lies their desire to do away with the rules, hold "humans" indefinitely without trial, based simply on accusations and circumstantial evidence. the practice would most certainly be extend to political opponents.

    Adept - Most of the "fundies" you reference are much closer to the mainstream that the schools funded by off shore Moslems. That is one difference. Of course another one is that the "fundies" aren't cutting throats and flying airplanes into buildings. Of course another one is that the "fundies" haven't declared jihad on you non-believers. ;-) Other than that... Anon67 - And why do you think I see Bush as a hero? CA - Try google. "And the school itself has been accused of teaching students to shun or dislike Christians and Jews, and once used an 11th-grade textbook that claimed trees will say on the Day of Judgment, "Here is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him." That is a damning comment. Philadephia Daily News "The school's former comptroller, arrested last year after videotaping the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in Maryland, has been labeled by federal agents as a high- ranking member of the terrorist group Hamas." The issue is becoming, how far can individual freedom go before it runs smack into responsibilty to society. And no, my comments come no where near the Japanese situation during WWII. Basically, all I have said is that Moslems should not be allowed to teach radical hate, funded by offshore perto-dollars. Perhaps the Left can review its hatred of drilling in ANWAR and building nuclear power plants. As for discriminatio and slavery being "American problems," I assume you are trying to respond to my comment re sometimes society must demand changes. I would agree, but let us not mince words. The real problems were in the south, not in Nebraska (for example). And finally, yes. I believe that if you come to this country you should send your children to public schools, and do whatever is necessary to join the mainstream. For if you do not, why are you here? Out of many, one.

    True, they are not "cutting throats" or "flying aircraft" into buildings. Neither are most Muslims. However, their have been numerous incidents of Fundies targeting doctors who perform abortions, bomb clinics, etc. How about the case recently where it was decided to not prosecute under terrorism statutes, though the accused had explosives, and was targeting Gay Bars and Abortion Clinics. Some right-wing militias with ties to the "christian identity" movement can easily be considered terrorist groups. Anybody remember Ok. City? As for Fundies who haven't declared "Jihad"...take a look over at LGF or Free Republic, there's always the Fundie cry for "No King but Jesus" or "America, the Christian Nation" (thankfully they are often shouted down by the libetarian's there). Fundies have targeted and killed people who disagree with them and their agenda. Thankfully, it's a minority. Just like it's a minority of Muslim's who commit terrorism. Yes, some Christians decry this, as do some Muslims. Enough of both sides? Not even close. I'd love to hear Falwell, or Robertson, or Dobson condemn their own extremists as quickly as they condemn those of a different religion. Terrorism from both religions still happens, and the comparison is quite valid. Fundamentalism is an extreme viewpoint, it breeds extremeism, Christian or Muslim. Other than that..... The notion of forcing anyone to go to public or private school is absurd. I thought freedom included the freedom to choose such things.

    Re: Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict H (none / 0) (#15)
    by glanton on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 01:18:31 PM EST
    pigwiggle: Those maps are truly frightening to me, though you don't seem very concerned by them. A great sleep has enveloped the nation; will we ever awaken?

    the "fundies" aren't cutting throats and flying airplanes into buildings. Iraqis either.

    Adept - It is amazing how the Left can always attack US citizens and defend Moslems. Could we have some links to these things? Could we agree that most Moslems are not terrorists, but most terrorist in the modern era are Moslem? While the Pope calls for peace, this school is using text books calling for Jews to be killed? Surely you joke.

    Re: Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict H (none / 0) (#18)
    by soccerdad on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 02:40:17 PM EST
    "The school's former comptroller, arrested last year after videotaping the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in Maryland, has been labeled by federal agents as a high- ranking member of the terrorist group Hamas."
    Given the record of the feds in their terror trials I put no stock in this accusation. The other main source of the comments in your Phil. article is Daniel Pipes, a well known loon who has made his rep on hating Muslims and is such a fringe lunatic that Bush doesn't want him anywhere near the admin. Got anything else?

    No, I don't joke. This time. I also don't recall bringing up the pope, nor the high school. My point was that fundamentalism is an extreme viewpoint, and feeds extremism, regardless of the religion used as it's vehicle. My comparisons, which you chose to ignore, were to the uniquely American breed of Christianity as expressed in the Christian Identity movement and others like it. They give the world people like Eric Rudolph, who bombed a gay bar and an abortion clinic. If your unable to see that these people are just as dangerous as any other religious extremists, then I commend you on your selective perceptions. And yes, most terrorists these days are Moslem, but most Moslem's are not terrorists. It still remains that your blanket statement that all "Moslem immigrants should be forced to go to public school" (the point of my post) is a foolish and dangerous precedent to set, and incidentally not too likely to be embraced by the Christian Fundies.

    BTW PPJ- nice assumption, I almost missed it.
    It is amazing how the Left can always attack US citizens and defend Moslems.
    Please show me where I attacked US citizens (other than a few bomb throwing terrorists).

    PPJ: Just how do you justify your hero George Bush's fealty to the the Saudis? Anon67 - And why do you think I see Bush as a hero? Okay, how do you justify the President of the United States fealty to the Saudis?

    Dearest No Name - Do you have a comment to make, or are you just trolling? Adept - Actually, it was an overhead statement reflecting what I see as the actions of the Left in far too many, but not all, situations. Your comments here reflect it beautifully. I comment that radical Islamic terrorists are a problem. You make a "not all Moslems are terrorist" comment and then go into 200 or so word attack on christians. Adept, attacking abortion clinics is bad, and we have responded. But the real problem is not that. The real problem is an attack from outside the US by a group dedicated to killing Americans. And a reasonable person would say that letting a school teach that killing Jews, or anyone, is not stupid, it is very bad public policy. Why you seem to think it is always necessary to lecture us over fairness I will leave to our collective imaginatuons.

    PPJ- two quick points:
    "and then go into 200 or so word attack on christians."
    Pay attention. My "attack" was on fun-duh-mentalism. My examples were Christian Fundies, specifically the Christian Identity folks (or are you defending them too?) Secondly:
    And a reasonable person would say that letting a school teach that killing Jews, or anyone, is not stupid, it is very bad public policy.
    I don't believe I ever said otherwise. I simply stated your blanket policy of forcing all Muslim immigrants (or any other group) to attend Public Schools was a dumb idea, and a slippery slope.

    Adept - No. You make a four or five word comment about Moslems terrorists, mentioning that all Moslems aren't terrorists....what insight...and then you rip off 200 or so words attacking christians. And I didn't call for force. I did say that schools that teach that it is okay to kill Jews should be shut down. do you think they should not?

    Re: Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict H (none / 0) (#25)
    by soccerdad on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 05:17:33 PM EST
    PPJ have anything besides Daniel Pipes to support your argument? I see you are in fine form today with your distortions etc.

    Sorry Jim, no dice. I just reread my post, and what do you know, it's against fundamentalism (christian fundamentalism in this case, once again, specifically the Christian Identity brand which is equally as intolerant as that practiced by Islamists.) I still beleive that fundamentalism is an extreme viewpoint, and breeds actions like we've seen from Muslim Terrorists and Christian Clinic bombers. You don't agree. Fine. While I understand your desire to turn my words into a general attack on Christianity, sorry, no dice. Maybe you can show me where I made an attack on all Christians. As for your second statement:
    If Moslems want to come to this country, they should send their children to public schools and public universities.
    So your not calling for this to be policy? Fine. I'll just dismiss it for what it is, a very bad idea. I don't recall disagreeing that schools that taught people to kill other people should be closed. Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth. Keep trying. ;)

    Adept - Can you show us a detailed attack on the Moslem radicals? I mean since you are so against fundamentalism, surely you have one or ten at your finger tips. We're waiting....

    PPJ- Nice way to avoid my point. Is that really all you've got? I'm sorry. To be honest, I don't give too much thought about Muslim fundamentalism, as I encounter it rarely in my personal and daily life. The same cannot be said for fundies of other sorts. I'm not sure what you mean by "detailed attack on Muslim radicals"? I would think the military actions ongoing in the ME would qualify. However, if your speaking socially, two books I read a few months ago detalied several (what I found to be) noble efforts opposed to it. I recommend to anyone interested to read The Sewing Circles of Herat, and Reading Lolita in Tehran by Christina Lamb and Azar Nafisi, respectively. They detail the efforts of women to educate other women, literally in the face of death. Quite moving. Also, if your interested in working with a group, there's always Karamah.org/. They do good work. On that note, I bid you a good evening. You've been a lovely troll, thanks for playing. ;)

    Re: Abu Ali: Some Law Enforcement Agents Predict H (none / 0) (#29)
    by pigwiggle on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 05:01:41 AM EST
    glanton- “Those maps are truly frightening to me, though you don't seem very concerned by them.” I said they were suggestive, but I now don’t think there is anything to them. I took the 1860 census for free whites, free blacks, and slaves and tried to correlate slave population ratios to the 2004 presidential vote. The problem is most states were sparsely populated around emancipation and further, the vote margins were achingly slim. If you are interested I could send you the excel sheet and you can see for yourself.