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Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 05:08:50 AM EST
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Danny Schecter of Media Channel has an op-ed at Common Dreams that contains the appeal of the newspaper Il Manifesto for the release of journalist Giuliana Sgrena.

" We ask of the men who have taken hostage our colleague, Giuliana Sgrena, that they release her, not just as an act of generosity and of mercy, but because Giuliana has always been a journalist who has struggled for peace, and an ally of the Iraqi people. Her articles for “Il Manifesto” have always expressed her opposition to the war and to the occupation of Iraq by the Americans and by the international coalition supporting them. Keeping her prisoner or harming her would further damage the cause of Iraq and of the Iraqis in the eyes of the world, fueling the arguments of those who want to impose “democracy” or “freedom” on the Arab-Moslem world through war and violence.

“Il Manifesto” does not believe this and has never believed it. It is an independent newspaper, peace loving by tradition, and it has always opposed the “preventive wars” of George Bush. Through Giuliana’s eyes our readers have seen the suffering that is daily inflicted on the Iraqi people by the occupation, especially on the women and children, suffering that she was determined to give voice to. It is a hard task, amongst the proliferation of armaments that has the world in its grip, and a task that a negative outcome for Giuliana would render yet more difficult. Iraq would be still more alone.

"We therefore beg you to free Giuliana quickly, and in the name of the Iraqi people who you wish to defend. Liberate one of the few voices that are still free to describe the reality of Iraq for what it is, and to oppose all forms of tyranny.

Here is the English translation of Il Manifesto's statement on Giuliana's release , and on the death of Nicola Calipari.

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    Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena | 96 comments (96 topical)
    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 01:17:38 AM EST
    Thanks for that JM: Here's coverage from Libertarian LewRockwell's blog: US Soldiers Try To Murder Another Journalist Posted by Lew Rockwell at 01:57 PM Despite the universal reprinting of Pentagon press releases by the US media--the Italian car carrying the hostage and her rescuers was speeding towards the checkpoint and refused to stop despite warning shots--the foreign press reports the truth. When the USG soldiers opened fire, the car was 700 yards from the airport and had passed all checkpoints. Giuliana Sgrena had helped expose Abu Graib and other US military crimes, including massacres in Fallujah, and she has much more to say. She is hated for not being embedded and FOXified, so they opened fire. One can never rule out a snafu--this is the government, after all--but the rest of the world sees it as an attempted hit. Thanks for the link to Kevin Thomson and the link and translation to Christopher Manion. Here's what they had to say about Martha too: Respect the State's Agents Posted by Karen De Coster at March 5, 2005 10:34 AM Sheldon Richman on Martha Stewart and her real crime: Yet she is now confined to her home (not her entire property) until August. It may be a nice home, but that does not change the fact that the state intends to humiliate her. It goes to show that the state will tolerate many things. But lying to its agents is not one of them. Of course, those agents are perfectly free to lie to us.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#2)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 03:07:51 AM EST
    Articles such as Napalm Raid on Falluja? would not have made Sgrena popular with the US military

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#3)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 03:49:44 AM EST
    This suggests that checkpoints are confusing to many drivers.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 04:30:02 AM EST
    As I stated in the prior thread: Il Manifesto is to the Left of Chomsky, and to the Right of Satan. As such, cannot be taken as an unbiased broker facts.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 05:14:12 AM EST
    ALL non-Centcom reports out of Fallujah confirm that a very serious war crime was committed there by George Bush and his Centcom co-conspirators. It is a My Lai, times ten, or twenty. How many of the mosques in Fallujah were destroyed? The gov't has renamed their gasoline bombs, but no change in name is going to make their use in Iraq ANYTHING but an utter warcrime. No part of these atrocities can be hidden under the idiot excuse of needing to install Bush's demockery. 100,000 civilians killed -- what was their crime?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 05:18:31 AM EST
    PaulLALA, By your own words, you wish our men in uniform dead. Those are treasonous words.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#7)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 05:57:55 AM EST
    By your own words, you wish our men in uniform dead.
    And which words were those? I see nothing in the 6:14 post

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#8)
    by DonS on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 06:03:47 AM EST
    Boquisucio, you assume "to the Left of Chomsky" is an indictment. Maybe to an authoritarian rightest like yourself, but that only makes it your opinion. Look around, this is called Talkleft. Not everyone here buys your fascist bile by a longshot.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 06:55:25 AM EST
    Soccerdad: From: U.S. Troops Attack Freed Italian Hostage, Kill Guard Posted by: Paul in LA on March 4, 2005 10:10 PM "The US military deserves a whole range of 'attacks.'..." We all know where PaulLALA stands. He stands front and center with thos who wish me personally harm.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 06:58:05 AM EST
    DonS, Look around, this is called Talkleft. Not everyone here buys your fascist bile by a longshot. I we enter a mental asylum, and look around, could we come to the conclusion that schizophrenic delusions are acceptable?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 07:05:25 AM EST
    Boquisucio The second paragraph of his post makes it clear that "attacks" is not mean as a physical attack on the military but verbal or legal 'attack' due to some of thei actions. Better start improving your reading comprehension. But that wouldn't allow you to attack the messenger would it. No one wishes you personal harm. Getting a little paranoid?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 07:36:24 AM EST
    Soccerdad, If I may quibble, when taken in context of an on-going war as we have today, "a whole range of attacks", can only mean one thing: to do physical harm to those wearing our uniform. Either PaulLALA is loose with his lexicon, or he is purpously duplicitous in his wording. As far as your snark, I do take it personal. On Feb '98, our enemies issued a Fatwah, ordering the killing of americans; an order which was carried out on Sept '01. I saw with my very own eyes the column of smoke rising-up in Arlington VA. Up on that column of smoke went three neighbours of mine - The Falkenbergs passengers of AA77. To me this is VERY Personal

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:09:33 AM EST
    Can you say "Histrionic Personality Disorder??"

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:10:34 AM EST
    "To me this is VERY Personal" As with all such testimonials, the proper response is to sign up; I hear the military is taking all comers in some way or another.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:15:12 AM EST
    When I read posts by Paul in LA, I think of paranoia and "histrionic personality disorder," though I suppose in L.A., this would hardly be noticed.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:17:42 AM EST
    "I saw with my very own eyes the column of smoke rising-up in Arlington VA. . . . To me this is VERY Personal" Sheesh, another fool who thinks Iraq was behind 9/11 . . .

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#17)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:29:28 AM EST
    I like the patented "Then go sign up" answer some throw around in here all the time. What about those of us who have already signed up, and done their tour? Does that same sentiment apply to us, or have we "earned" the right to serve you a nice hot steaming plate of SHUT THE HELL UP! Having served, it is my opinion and belief that this was an unfortunate incident, and because of the nature of conflict, there will probably be more. Don't let those who get all excited about the misfortune of a few, or the fog of war, get under your skin. Most of them are still wet behind the ear, stuck in their adolesence, whining, sniveling malcontents, who would never be happy, even if there were peace on earth, and a socialist government in every county. BTW, Someone paid for her release? That's the way to ensure this type of kidnapping continues indefinitely.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:30:14 AM EST
    Bam, Histrionics: n. an artificial or overacted display of emotions. I'll take your inmature snark as youth's inpudence,unable to cope with reality. There is nothing artificial nor overacted in my post above. Maybe the atrocities of Sept '01 were just a video game for you. You have mislearnt to disassociate your self from this event. To me, it meant the deaths of good people in my neighborhood. That to me, is personal.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:33:08 AM EST
    rea, You were obviously asleep on the evening of Sept 16th '01. Go read and study the President's address to the Nation. It tells you exactly the course by which this Global War on Terror is and will be conducted.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#20)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:40:47 AM EST
    Rea, Nice fantasy world you live in. We all know terrorists were behind the September 11th attacks. Apparently you don't believe that Iraq was a nation that supported terrorism and because they did, became a legitimate target of the War on Terror. I certainly don't ever recall there being a war on the "perpetrators of the the September 11th attacks", but if there was, then your comments would be right on. Since that hasn't happened, crawl back under your rock and live in your dream world. The rest of us will defend your right to be an idiot.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 09:07:53 AM EST
    Getting back to topic, Il Manfesto may have made an appeal to release Sgrena, but it appears that cold hard cash paid to the terrorists by the Italian government actually secured her release. The unintentional shooting of the car she and her escort were driving in will doubtless be exploited by the Italian left.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 09:13:17 AM EST
    Back on Subject: Il Manifesto as a Daily Newspaper, was founded by Luigi Pintor, an ex Stalinist Partisan Guerilla Leader. It has its origins out of the 12th Italian Communist Party (PCI) Central Committee's Congress in Bologna. At the time, the PCI was very worried that the Left in Italy had taken a moderate/centrist approach, as it worked from within the mainstream political process. They resolved that in order to galvanize the Left back into its orthodox Stalinist roots, it required an official mouthpiece to communicate with its cadre of followers. Ergo the foundation of Il Manifesto in 1971. Ever since then, it has done its outmost to put forward its dogmatic positions to the general public. It is regretable, that we Americans cannot discern the nuances of European Media, and take this propagandistic rag as a mainstream source of news.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:18:38 AM EST
    Patrick at March 7, 2005 09:40 AM Boquisucio at March 7, 2005 10:13 AM ya'll some funny dudes. spewing right dogma like fact. lol!

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#24)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:23:41 AM EST
    At least I put a name to my "Spewing right Dogma," so that it can later be attributed to me. As far as we know your a troll who takes contrarian positions just to stir the pot, and can offer no real or insightful ideas to the discussion. I know, I know...Don't feed the trolls.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:32:54 AM EST
    ...can offer no real or insightful ideas to the discussion.
    thus you assume your post are real and insightful, or is that real insightful. again ya'll some funny dudes. roflmao!

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:38:47 AM EST
    No Name at 11:18 AM & 11:32 AM I challege you to research a bit on Sig. Pinto's biography. And tell me if what I posted above is not true.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:42:45 AM EST
    Oh, how inconsiderate of me, you all can't read a lick of Italian. No wonder you are so ignorant about this agitator.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:45:52 AM EST
    Patrick You know better (or at least I thought you did)> Iraq was not behind 9/11 which you seem to acknowledge. However, wrt to Iraq supporing terrorism, the only thing that has been confirmed is that Saddam gave money (about 25k) to families of Palestinian sucide bombers. That puts Iraq pretty far down the list of countries who supported terrorism and certainly doesn't justify invasion. To put things in perspective, AG Khan in Pakistan has spread nukes all over the globe and we give Pakistan more aid. Pakistan has physically and monetarily supported known terrorist groups. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with the "war on terrorism".

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#29)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:48:48 AM EST
    Patrick - BTW you're the one who appears should go crawl under a rock.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:58:24 AM EST
    No wonder you are so ignorant about this agitator.
    from this your point is? i'm understanding: that it's alright to kill her. your an agitator; you should be shot?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:59:01 AM EST
    Oh please Soccerdad, don't pooh-pooh Saddam's involvement in International Terrorism. Leave it up to you to exculpate a beast like that. And just think that I had some respect for you.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#32)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:01:59 AM EST
    If I may quibble, when taken in context of an on-going war as we have today, "a whole range of attacks", can only mean one thing: to do physical harm to those wearing our uniform.
    The word attack was placed in quotes clearly indicating a specific meaning which he defined. Thats common practice and I would suggest that he be a little clearer next time to avoid any confusion but stand by my interpretation. I was referring to anyone here (TL)wishing you harm but it appears that was not what you meant. I certainly don't take the tragedy of 9/11 personnally. It was a political attack (as are most terrorist acts). It was an attack motivated by OBL's hatred of America's policy in the middle east. I think this may be a semantic issue more than anything. The response of this admin, to invade Iraq, makes no sense in the context of the war on terror. What it has done is make more of the Islamic world mad at the US and provided training for the next wave of terrorists. Yes there are terrorist currently in Iraq, but they were not there before the war started.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:02:34 AM EST
    Well said soc. I would guess more money went from the US to AQ than from Iraq to AQ. Maybe we should attack the CIA.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#34)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:04:11 AM EST
    Boquisucio if you got the proof I'll read it. He was an evil dictator, but to call him a big time supporter of Terrorism is just not warrented. Pakistan is a big time supporter of terrorism, but we're friends with them.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:04:18 AM EST
    Boq...the CIA did more to help OBL than Saddam ever did. Why aren't you taking that "personally"?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:06:07 AM EST
    Gee, Soc, sometimes help comes from the most unlikely places. Very admiring of your commitment to logic, truth and your own convictions.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:09:58 AM EST
    Bush is a foreign policy genius people. How many Bush hating papers have already begun to speak of the "Iraq Effect"? (anybody read the NY Times editorial). He'll go down as one of our finest Presidents ever, much like Ronnie. The Great Emancipator- George Bush.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:18:46 AM EST
    notU, I do not wish ill to 5th Columnist such as her. My point was that you not being aware of the Raison d'Etre of Il Manifesto, you are accepting as gospel, that this is an impartial broker of facts. And thank-you for the love, unlike you to me, I wish you better.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:23:31 AM EST
    Soccerdad I certainly don't take the tragedy of 9/11 personnally. It was a political attack.. That is where we could not be more different from one another. That "political attack", did cost the life of 3000 inocents. Why do you take the stand of defending those who killed us by the thousands?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:27:30 AM EST
    I've never heard my man soccerdad defend terrorists. He just doesn't want us to help in creating anymore. I'd love to know when criticizing our gov't became treasonous. Jefferson would be ashamed of us.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 11:28:46 AM EST
    Soccerdad...not that you need me to chime in, you are more informed than 99% here, including me. Keep up the good work.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 12:10:34 PM EST
    Boquisucio the statement wished no ill will on you. i do not advocate violence for political/ideological differences. an accusation: your an agitator followed by a questioned action: you should be shot? was a question following up my understanding that it was acceptable to you to kill her because she is an agitator, politics notwithstanding. that was not your intent, understood.
    ...you are accepting as gospel, that this is an impartial broker of facts.
    not at all, i simply like to hear all accounts, as there usuall are at least three hers, theirs, and what actually happened, rashomon.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 12:31:23 PM EST
    notU - Glad that we can clear up the air. Again, I trully believe that what happened to Sigra. Sgrena was a tragedy; and do wish her the best.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 12:44:17 PM EST
    So, the logic goes, because Sigra. Sgrena worked for a very left wing paper, she must have made up the story to justify her paper's position? Unfortunately, the facts coming out seem to support her version. C'mon folks. Does anyone here actually believe this was a random act of violence? I would think her left leaning political view would suggest otherwise in itself. If it was a mistake, we should pull out of Iraq immediately. No "liberation" should kill innocents as blatantly, casually and incompetently as a mistake of this calibre would indicate. If so, our troops are so badly trained, so badly prepared for combat then our mission is doomed by our lack of concern for any life.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 12:51:51 PM EST
    C'mon folks. Does anyone here actually believe this was a random act of violence? An accident, yes I think 90% of the people think that.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#46)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 01:24:13 PM EST
    Why do you take the stand of defending those who killed us by the thousands?
    Show me where I did. I think semantics is an issue. I'm taking the term personnaly literally. The attacks were not directed at the people, as individuals, who died because of who they were. They were direted at the buildings which represented wealth of the US. It doesn't make the attacks any less reprehensible or repugnant. I support totally the capture and punishment of those who organized and funded the attacks. Anybody seen OBL? He wasn't in Iraq.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#47)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 01:33:14 PM EST
    WRT Sgrena, at this point in time I believe it was just another checkpoint tragedy. It happens all the time there, innocent people shot up. I think the US command in Iraq deserves criticism for not doing anything to decrease these kinds of incidents. Its also seems likely that the paper would leverage this for political gain. Usually its just no-name innocent Iraqis that are killed at checkpoints in "accidents". No one cares. This time someone cares. Occupations are political operations, the "noise" made by the Italian paper is political heat that they have the right to use. Lord knows the Bush team have done similar things.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 01:37:52 PM EST
    This "occupation" of Iraq will do more for world peace and safety than any before (more than Germany,more than Japan). Women actually protested for their rights today in Kuwait. It's all due to Bush, a genius President.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 02:38:00 PM EST
    mfox writes - "If it was a mistake, we should pull out of Iraq immediately." Let me see. Let us ignore all that has been accomplished. Let us ignore the elections. Let us ignore that Saddam's plans for WMD's, and his long range rockets, were destroyed. Let us ignore that Egypt is having an actual election. Let us ignore that Syria is going to leave Lebannon. Let us ignore that Israel is pulling out of some of the "occupied terrorities" and that the Palestinians are making an effort. Let us just ignore that and run around in circles screaming and shouting that all of this must be done away with because an accident happened and someone was killed. And let us forget that the prime cause of the accident was poor coordination, brought on by Italy's decision to do this very quietly becuase they had paid a ransom. mfox, The year has about nine and a half months left, but no one can possibly match this. I hereby award you First Prize in the 2005 "Hysterical Rant and Dumb Statement" contest.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 03:16:02 PM EST
    Soccerdad, Show me where I did. By downgrading the Act of War perpetrated against us on 09/11, to a "Political Act", you are indeed sanitizing their actions - transforming it from a blood and guts atrocity to an abstraction worthy of academic pululation. Once you do that, you are indeed minimizing their barbarity against us and serving as an unwitting apologist and defender for our enemies.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 03:37:17 PM EST
    Let us ignore that Saddam's plans for WMD's, and his long range rockets, were destroyed. Nobody was claiming that he hadn't had plans, if you'll remember that pre-invasion, we were not only told that he had WMD, but that we knew where Saddam kept them. I also remember some of those 'long-range' missles being destroyed before the War, because they were found by the inspectors, and they weren't long-range enough to pose a threat to the American continent in the first place. If there is a technical definition of what a 'long-range missle' is, a link would be helpful here. Really, PPJ, you make it too easy some days.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 03:55:58 PM EST
    The Dark Avenger, I guess that you have chosen to forget them Scuds raining over Tel-Aviv

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#55)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 04:02:16 PM EST
    Dark also forgets that he launched an unprovoked war of aggression against a neighboring country and these sanctions were put in place as a condition of a CEASE-FIRE and when he ignored the sanctions no more cease fire. Pick which reason suits you...They are all valid, IMO.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#56)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 05:43:27 PM EST
    Boquisucio Clearly you are an idiot who chooses purposely to redefine words. Note that i said it made it no less repugnant. But you don't care as long as you can carry on your attacks. You are now the straw man champion. You have lost your credibility

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#57)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 05:46:36 PM EST
    I guess that you have chosen to forget them Scuds raining over Tel-Aviv
    And what year was that? PPJ - I see you are reading the neocon crap.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimcee on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 06:14:30 PM EST
    Did Saddam support terrorism by paying suicide bomber's families in the West Bank $25,000 for allowing their kids to be the delivery method? Yes, sell your kid, win a prize. Was the Italian reporter the target of an US assasination attempt? I doubt it much. Was it an accident? Yeah because if the US meant to kill her she would be dead not wounded. Is it a tragedy? Yup. Was the Italian intelligence officer a hero? You bet. Did the Italian Gov't pay a ransom to have her freed? It seems pretty obvious that they did. They have in the past so using past practice as precedent they did this time. Question: Could that cash be used to fund more terror bombings? Yes siree. Why didn't the Italian authorities contact the US to make sure that there would be safe passage for Ms. Sgrena? Seems odd to me. Reading Ms. Sgrena's own account the car she was riding in was speeding and acting in the same way as previous car-bombers have in the past. Read her own account. Will she use her experience to defame the US invasion of Iraq? Of course she will, just read her kind words for her kidnappers and you'll get the drift, just think "Stockholm Syndrome". That she works for the Communist paper "Ill Manifesto" is just a reminder that there are articulate fools who are willing to decieve their readership with Marxist rhetoric instead of honest reporting. She defended Saddam and his torturers when he was in power so of course she demonizes democratic reformers in Iraq. The only way Communism succeeds is by a lack of true democracy. She is no friend of the people only their oppressors. It is sad to see that there are fools in this country and on this site that are as articulate as she but with the same foolish naivity that she brings to the table. Oppression takes many forms but most are self-delusions, just ask the deceased NYT reporter and apologist William Durante, he seemed to love Stalin. Sgrena is nothing more than that. A propagandist.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 06:34:13 PM EST
    SD - You keep making an incorrect statement: " It was an attack motivated by OBL's hatred of America's policy in the middle east." So I'll keep refuting it in OBL's very own words: "REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US ? BIN LADIN: The cause of the reaction must be sought and the act that has triggered this reaction must be eliminated. The reaction came as a result of the US aggressive policy towards the entire Muslim world and not just towards the Arabian peninsula. So if the cause that has called for this act comes to an end, this act, in turn, will come to an end. So, the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world. Link to interview with OBL. DA - "With regard to delivery systems, the ISG team has discovered sufficient evidence to date to conclude that the Iraqi regime was committed to delivery system improvements that would have, if OIF had not occurred, dramatically breached UN restrictions placed on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War Want more? Read the Kay Report.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 06:35:15 PM EST
    Soccerdad, Thanks - that was some great lovin' coming my way. Is ad hominem attacks all that you've got left in your bag-o-tricks?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#61)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 07:25:50 PM EST
    Boquisucio Lets see- you start by accusing me of thing you know not to be true then whine . Typical bully can dish it out but can't take it.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#62)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 07:37:31 PM EST
    PPJ - We've been through this. your lack of comprehension of the english language is breathtaking in its magnitude. Actually your just being disingenous. He does say he wants us to stop our aggressive policy towards all Muslims. So I will give you that its more than the ME, but notice the word policy. We've been through your wishful think wrt to the Kay report. There's also the dufler report andthe 9/11 commission reports. There is no sense discussing it any further since you just ignore everything every body says and keep repeating and repeating your standard lines. Despite what Lenin said, repeating them does not make them true.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#63)
    by Richard Aubrey on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 07:51:03 PM EST
    Jon Stewart, that sly fooler, got Nancy Soderburg to admit she and other dems were hoping for a catastrophe. They must all be lurking here. Well, guys. All I can say is that nothing is for sure. Maybe there will be a catastrophe. You can always hope.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 07:56:06 PM EST
    Soccerdad, To the contrary, I only gave back your own words in a way that make crystal clear where you stand both morally and philosophically. Sorry that the reflection in the mirror is unbecoming.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 08:26:08 PM EST
    SD - Thanks, but you are giving me zip. He said what he said, and it is very clear. "The reaction came as a result of the US aggressive policy towards the entire Muslim world and not just towards the Arabian peninsula." BTW - A government's policy defines its actions. "... a definite course or method of action selected from among alternatives and in light of given conditions to guide and determine present and future decisions b : a high-level overall plan embracing the general goals and acceptable procedures especially of a governmental body So read that as: The reaction came as a result of the US aggressive actions. And he then excludes the pennisula by saying, "not just." It becomes even plainer when he says: ..."the whole world." So now, could you quit repeating that BS inaccurate statement that gives the terrorists political cover?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#67)
    by chupetin on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 09:28:32 PM EST
    Richard Aubrey, I guess you did'nt read todays Altercation column. Why dont you take a look? Dark, just ignore Jim. We all know what he is.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 12:15:39 AM EST
    MB kept on repeating (endlessly):
    He'll go down as one of our finest Presidents ever, much like Ronnie. The Great Emancipator- George Bush.
    Bush= foreign policy genius
    It's all due to Bush, a genius President.
    That's the same line three times today. What are you, MB some kind of vacuous high school cheerleader? I've been ignoring your pointless and provocative little "ra-ra-ra" comments for a couple of weeks, and have held my tongue till now, but I really think it's time to speak out, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who is tired of it. If you have nothing to say keep your mouth shut and your mouse unclicked. Nobody cares for your repetitive, empty sloganeering. We know you think Bush should be made into a saint, we know you loved Reagan. Got anything else to say? No? Then shut up. In case you weren't aware, this is a discussion blog, intended to explore serious issues as and when they arise. Your comments are nothing more than content-free repetitions of your naive views. You keep waving your little republican pom-poms and chanting your little "Go Bush, Go Bush" crap and quite frankly it's becoming as tedious as a child nagging its parent for sweets. Most people with a modicum of intelligence on this blog and elsewhere understand that international politics, even more than national politics is a long term issue. For you to stand there are chant "we're winning, we're winning" simply because some of the Iraqis voted a month ago merely serves to display to us all that you really have no clue what on earth you're talking about. Go ahead and chant if you like. The rest of us adults will continue to debate the issues and hopefully increase each others understanding of what is going on in this period of world history. As an aside - TL: Any chance we can get this guy/gal limited to four posts a day? I've had enough of his childish provocation. End rant. [Ed. Ian, MB hasn't posted more than four a day.]

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#68)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 01:54:24 AM EST
    Way up at the top of this thread, in the 1st posted comment is the post I made from LewRockwell.com and his blog. The post was from Lew himself. It was entitled: "US Soldiers Try To Murder Another Journalist".[March 5th post, 1.57pm] A click on 'VJ' will also get you there. Lew Rockwell runs the fairly conservative Libertarian 'Ludwig Von Mises Institute' in Auburn Alabama. Yes, right in that Liberal bastion of 'Bama. Now tell me how he's a commie too, for having the same opinion on what may have happened here OK? Mises Institute = Mises Institute LewRockwell's Blog = Lew Rockwell's blog

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 02:26:09 AM EST
    Hey, Bosc, if you plan on slandering me, how about getting somethings straight first: 1) 40,000 troops with NO Kevlar. 2) Only 2% of the vehicles armored during the invasion. 3) Not enough water, not enough food, not enough bullets, not enough housing. 4) Not enough troops to guard ANY of the ammo dumps. 650,000 pounds of ammo gone missing; 4,000 shoulder-fired missiles, gone missing; 280 tons of high-explosives, suitable for blowing our troops back home directly, gone missing. 1,000s of GIs with arms and legs, ears and eyes, gone missing. 5) 1,510 GIs NOT COMING HOME. WMD? Not one gram, not one shell, not one My quote said: "Plenty of reasons to attack THE MILITARY without attacking the troops." Though I know it stretches your intelligence, try to understand the difference between Centcom and our troops. When Centcom orders our troops into an illegal invasion, lying to them as Bush did to us, and then under-equips them, that's a reason to attack Centcom, and the Pentagon, and Donald "on the cheap" Rumsfeld. Such an attack on the military is IN FAVOR of our troops, you numbskull. And whenever our troops are deployed illegally, or are ordered to commit warcrimes, or are ordered to take amphetamines and fly (and then as a result shoot up friendlies and civilians, stoned to the gills), that's a reason to attack the military, in favor of the troops. Get it?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#70)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 02:29:03 AM EST
    ...not one vial. When you took the second half of my clause off, and replaced it with elipses, you were LYING. You were misrepresenting my statement to get a big brownie point from your fellow brownie-nosing Bushlickers. Shave your head so Bush can pat it for you.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#71)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 02:47:29 AM EST
    Boquisucio Are you always this delusional

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#72)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 02:50:07 AM EST
    kdog-thanks it means alot. Thanks for the encouragement

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#73)
    by Kitt on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 03:55:50 AM EST
    Whew...soccerdad has already called Boquisucio an idiot, so I won't have to - vaffanculo minchione.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#74)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 04:34:35 AM EST
    Soccerdad, You can't debate me on the truths which I stated, so your last resort is to employ tricks better suited for the reptilian side of our brains. Good Job!!! kitt, Grazie per la sua cortezìa. Le sue parole sono molto carine. Per lei, la voglio dieci Babà - Baccione!

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#75)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 04:54:52 AM EST
    Boquisucio a delusional neocon You can't debate someone who lies and distorts. Your "truths" are a figment of your overactive imagination. Actually i don't think its imaginationas i think it is purposeful. The is the right's mo. Misrepresent what people say, insist that it is true , and when the person fights back assassinate their character. You have learned well from your neocon masters. But you still remain dishonest, delusional, and pathetic since you can't discuss with honesty and integrity. Everyone here cansee your tactics and I am sure your necon friends approve, but since they are irrelevant to me...... I wil have nothing further to do with you, since I don't want to go down to your level

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#76)
    by Kitt on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 05:23:11 AM EST
    Siete benvenuti, minchione.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#77)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 05:37:12 AM EST
    Soccerdad, It is not an overactive imagination, its my ability to do short work on your flimsy built achetypes that´s got you in a tis. These are things I won't hold my breath on: a) you refuting my statement on Luigi Pintor, and his gaggle of Stalinists Agitators. b)PaulLALA's wishes for the death of our men in uniform. b)Your diminution of the Act of War of 09/11 into a polite Political Act worthy of Parlor Discusions.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#78)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 05:41:16 AM EST
    Kitt - È mi scuso, per non ritornare tutte le vostre buonavventuranze che mi ha mitto. Baccione cara mia.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#79)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 05:54:16 AM EST
    a) you refuting my statement on Luigi Pintor, and his gaggle of Stalinists Agitators.
    I dont believe I ever commented on that In fact i said the paper was likely to use the incident for its political advantage. strike 1
    b)PaulLALA's wishes for the death of our men in uniform
    . he didn't you choose to misinterpret his words strike 2
    b)Your diminution of the Act of War of 09/11 into a polite Political Act worthy of Parlor Discusions.
    Simply not true, I called them repugnant, reprehensible and called for the capture of the funders and perpetrators - Strike 3 thanks for playing better, luck next time You are prone to hyberbole and gross distortion when it suits u. I don't know about everyone else, but this is getting a tad boring.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#80)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 06:15:59 AM EST
    I don't believe anyone intentionally tried to kill her or her protectors. I think we have a bunch of scared kids with heavy artillery that are shooting first and asking questions later. Which is why we should take the decision to go to war far more seriously and with much greater reserve. These kids are being told, "don't let this become another vietnam", when in doubt shoot to kill, better them than you. Of course, I don't blame the kids, every war has had its share of "non-conventional" fighters and every war has had its share of civilian casualties. If I am a commander I am reticent to tell them not to shoot and ask questions later as I would have to live with their loss as opposed to the others...

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 06:23:05 AM EST
    Well said J...I agree.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#82)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 08:07:55 AM EST
    Ah - that was good oatmeal I just had; but where was I... Soccerdad, You usually exhibit more wattage in your arguements than the average denizen of this blog. For that reason I'd recommend that in between soccer practice, you'd pick up a copy of Jung's treatises on Archetypes. He expertly detailed how our personal archetypes affect our conscious & uncouscious thoughts. He can make you a better debator. But on the task at hand. a) I'm glad that we are in agreement that Il Manifesto is a highly biased, Stalinist publication b) On PaulLaLa, You can't call for the blood of our soldiers, and then wring your hands on those who kill them, all in the same keystrokes. Both statements are mutually exclusive. That either shows intentional duplicity, or a serious disassociative disorder in the writer. c) Likewise on you sugar coating the perpetrators of the atrocities of 09/11, and then tisk-tisk their actions. Do a gut check, and let me know whether you find both statement congruent with each other. I will ignore your loving comments on NeoCon Masters, Hyperbole, etc. You are better than that; or so I thought.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#83)
    by Kitt on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 08:27:10 AM EST
    Okay, Boquisuico - uncle. You're throwing in words I don't know - which wouldn't be hard as Italian is about fifth way down the list....working knowledge, plus the prerequiste cuss words which I learned incidentally while driving in Italy (which is still better than driving anywhere in Mexico). Buonavventuranze - is that a word? Seems kinda compound.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#84)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 09:01:41 AM EST
    Kitt - Yes; it is a compound word: Wellwishes. As far as colorful language is concerned, it certainly comes in handy when driving both in Napoli and México DF. But have you driven in Lima? They make the traffic jams along the Paseo de la Reforma look like a Sunday trip to church.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#85)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 09:08:39 AM EST
    B - Why dont you cut the childish talk-radio level PaulLaLa crap?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#86)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 09:26:14 AM EST
    Jondee, The moment begins to engage in a cogent manner, I will be the first one to return the favor.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 09:36:40 AM EST
    PPJ - You want badly for people to believe that "aggressive intervention against" means "stop us from doing whatever we want" as if there were a danger of Iraq invading - which you also seem to believe - or the Saudis setting up bases in the U.S - but then, youve never met an aggressive U.S intervention that you havnt liked have you? - except possibly one or two that werent aggressive enough. Jim youve taken your old cold war"the rooskies are tryin to take over the world" ruse and not- very-reflectivly projected it onto a relativly rag-tag bunch who perpetrated what 19 above-average-intelligence college kids could have done. But,it keeps the fat contracts and make-work program moving along dosnt it?

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#88)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 10:20:14 AM EST
    Boquisuico I don't need a copy of Jung. I don't have the patience or desire to waste my precious time debating dishonest, disingenous, people such as yourself. In order to have a debate there has to be agreement on the meaning of common words by all parties. Since you are either badly in need of a dictionary or intellectual honesty (you decide which) that precludes debating you. If and when you decide to drop the histrionics and demonstrate intellectual honesty let me know until then its a couple waste of time. Underneath the reasonably good writing is just another right wing psuedointellectual poseur.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#89)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 10:26:12 AM EST
    Again - Ad Hominem attack is is employed either by small minds or by those with defeated arguements. In either case, both resort to the reptilian part of the brain. Congrats!!!

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#90)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 01:15:50 PM EST
    "b) On PaulLaLa, You can't call for the blood of our soldiers, and then wring your hands on those who kill them," I have done neither thing. It does create a conundrum: How to support the troops when they are committing atrocities under orders? Nonetheless, I do, because I recognize the awesome (and awful) nature of being under orders, and believe that the first to be punished for those crimes-under-orders are the commanders who cooked up the orders! You, on the other hand, idealize the troops, and ignore their travail, because YOU SUPPORT THE POLICY, NOT THE TROOPS. That's why it doesn't bother you that the troops are getting the shaft. Iraq didn't attack us. Hussein's crimes have NOTHING to do with installing 16 US airbases in Iraq. Al Qaeda's crimes have NOTHING to do with Cheney's pipelines through Afghanistan. American national security has NOTHING to do with the religious war of the rightwingers against Islam, against Iraqi and Islamic culture, and against the people of Iraq. And destroying our military in order to 'need' a draft is not supporting the troops. It is DESTROYING the troops.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#91)
    by Kitt on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 02:43:55 PM EST
    This: "You, on the other hand, idealize the troops, and ignore their travail, because YOU SUPPORT THE POLICY, NOT THE TROOPS. That's why it doesn't bother you that the troops are getting the shaft. is an excellent point and is probably how this administration is able to do the things they do while mouthing the words 'we support of the troops.' For example, the debate on easing bankruptcy restrictions which may benefit those National Guard troops who find themselves in financial straits because the military isn't paying as well as their civilian job and subsequently voted down.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#92)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 04:39:17 PM EST
    PaulLaLa By your own words: From: U.S. Troops Attack Freed Italian Hostage, Kill Guard Posted by: Paul in LA on March 4, 2005 10:10 PM "The US military deserves a whole range of 'attacks.'..." At a time of war, your comments can mean only one thing: you want our men in uniform to come in boxes into Dover AF

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#93)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 05:27:54 PM EST
    Yes Paulie,the above was mine.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimcee on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 06:59:02 PM EST
    Damn, I thought that people would talk about the facts of the incident instead of their own political interpretations of it. I was wrong. If there was a time for a new "movement" it is now. A simple proposal: All politics is pragmatism, period. No parties, just, well... pragmatism. What is best for everyone, skip the socialism as we can take care of ourselves. Man o'man, some on this site are oh so negative.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#95)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 09:45:10 PM EST
    Posted by B.: Posted by: Paul in LA: "The US military deserves a whole range of 'attacks.'...""...that don't involve attacking the troops." You repeat your lie, again! Well, that's how you get your winger pats on the head. "At a time of war, your comments can mean only one thing: " Yeah, I blame Bush for destroying the lives of 1,410 GIs, and for allowing the looting of NINETY sites with dangerous materials that were previously under UN control. Thanks, George!

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#96)
    by roy on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 10:45:13 PM EST
    Pictures of the car are available.

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#97)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:02:46 AM EST
    Centcom lie number #5,642. That car doesn't look like it was in a in a hail of bullets. It's clearly not the car involved. When the UN building was bombed, Centcom announced it had 22 Al Qaeda in custody, who had admitted to the bombing, and to their AQ membership. Truth? NEVER HAD ANYONE IN CUSTODY, except one Iraqi teen who they quickly knew wasn't involved. Bush has told some real stinkers, treasonous stinkers. Centcom has a whole bunch of stars on its sleeve that ought to be ripped off. But the same was true with Vietnam, and with information suggesting that Centcom used NAPALM against the innocent city of Fallujah last November, it is Vietnam all over again. THAT'S WHAT THIS JOURNALIST WAS REPORTING ON. Centcom can cook a story to cover this use of WMD on an innocent, previously peaceful city, but trotting out somebody else's car? That's like their response to the Al QaaQaa explosive's dump, which was to show satellite photos of ANOTHER part of the dump, in the attempt (now wholly discredited) to convince people that the material had been moved before the invasion, which the preponderance of evidence, like unbroken UNMOVIC seals, contradicts. Liars!

    Re: Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena (none / 0) (#98)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 04:14:19 AM EST
    PaulLaLa Posted by: Paul in LA: "The US military deserves a whole range of 'attacks.'...""...that don't involve attacking the troops." Great Double Speaker there Paulie

    Il Manifesto's Appeal to Free Giuliana Sgrena | 96 comments (96 topical)