home

Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Churchill Buyout

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 05:08:25 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

A University of Colorado regent has confirmed to a local news station that an attempt will be made to buy Professor Ward Churchill out of his contract. The report on his scholarship has been delayed until next week.

< U.S. Withdraws from Vienna Convention Death Penalty Protocol | Military Report: Abuse Not Ordered by Higher Ups >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Churchill Buyout | 60 comments (60 topical)
    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 06:33:47 AM EST
    Anything to shut him up is OK with me! What a righteous Whack!!!

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 07:31:23 AM EST
    If your goal is to shut him up this is the wrong way to go about it. Not only will buyout be expensive but Mr Churchhill will be able to play the Matyr card for sometime, giving him a bigger forum to express his views. In addition a buyout is bad public policy essentially he is being rewarded for saying something that is politically incorrect, or some people might argue he is being punished for excersizing his right to free speech. Either way it is a trend that we do not want to start.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#3)
    by roy on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 10:11:56 AM EST
    I think this is just a cowardly way for the University to dodge a problem. Either keep him on staff and publicly defend the decision; or (my preference) fire him for academic fraud, plagiarism, and assaulting a TV reporter. Instead, they're spending taxpayers' money for the convenience of a few administrators. Maybe Churhill will refuse the be bought out. It'd be the first thing he's done that I might respect.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#4)
    by selise on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 10:34:29 AM EST
    roy, is churchill guilty of fraud, plagarism and aussault? i thought the only thing he'd been accused of was writing things some people didn't want to read? if there is more to it, i'd like to know. thanks, susan

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 10:50:18 AM EST
    I wonder if Ward ever read the United States Constitution, article 3, sec. 3 Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. Ward is guilty of treason by adhering to America’s enemies. Losing his job should be the least of his worries.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#6)
    by roy on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 11:03:31 AM EST
    is churchill guilty of fraud, plagarism and aussault?
    By "academic fraud" (not regular fraud), I meant distorting sources he used in papers. I don't know if "academic fraud" is a technical term or not, so let's say "academic dishonesty" instead. By "plagiarism", I meant copying artwork and claiming it as his own work. By "assault", I was referring to hitting a TV reporter who was trying to ask about the plagiarism. Academic dishonesty and plagiarism are discussed here. It's a long post, so search for "General Allotment Act" and "Winter Attack" respectively. Assault is documented here. It's a little hard to tell what's going on in the video, but the reporter and camera man seem like good enough witnesses.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 11:29:17 AM EST
    burger boy, you are truly a fascist. Speaking your mind, no matter how much the rest of the public doesn't like your opinion, is in no way an act of treason. Where is the "aid and comfort"? Where is "adhering to their enemies" in his incredibly misquoted paper? Nowhere, you dumbass. It never ceases to amaze me the lack of any real thought processes in the right wing trolls that love to sleaze around this site. You don't like what he said, fine. Don't try to come up with half baked and ludicrous theories about whether he committed treason or not. It just don't fly, you idjit. To the brownshirt about the plagirism and assualt fallacies (in goon speak that means lies), where in the hell do you get any of your facts? Jeff Gannon's website, or that paradigm of "journalistic integrity" Bill O'Reily? In your inane response to me please cite where a person might find the treasure trove of knowledge only you have access to, and not just a bunch of stupid claims about how anyone who disagrees with the Idiot King's (aka George "Shrub"'s) claims that the evil terrorists attacked us because "they hate our freedom" is a traitor and guilty of treason. America is starting to wise up to the fact that you fascists make all these outlandish accusations without a shred of evidence. All this crap you guys spew out of your mouths is gonna come around and bite you in the tail one day.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 11:32:20 AM EST
    Just actually looked at your links in the previous post, Roy. Fairly specious about both claims. Do you have any more "facts" you would like to mangle or have you had enough of having your case of s.f.b. displayed for the public?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 11:42:45 AM EST
    susan - Read this for information as to his academic problems. This is the conclusion by Thomas Brown, Lamar University: "Situating Churchill’s rendition of the epidemic in a broader historiographical analysis, one must reluctantly conclude that Churchill fabricated the most crucial details of his genocide story. Churchill radically misrepresented the sources he cites in support of his genocide charges, sources which say essentially the opposite of what Churchill attributes to them. It is a distressing conclusion. One wants to think the best of fellow scholars. The scholarly enterprise depends on mutual trust. When one scholar violates that trust, it damages the legitimacy of the entire academy. Churchill has fabricated a genocide that never happened. It is difficult to conceive of a social scientist committing a more egregious violation." CU is wrong to offer anything. If they think he should no longer be associated with CU, they should let him go, and then settle it in the courts if Churchill feels wronged.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#10)
    by roy on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:05:27 PM EST
    Just actually looked at your links in the previous post, Roy. Fairly specious about both claims.
    Since you called me a "brownshirt" before bothering to even look at the evidence I pointed to, I should be in good company by ignoring you from now on.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:16:51 PM EST
    PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!!!

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:32:17 PM EST
    hmm. since manifest destiny posited native americans as savages, and since our historically wretched treatment of them has been documented to the hilt, i can only surmise that this is an argument over the EXTENT of caucasian american genocide against native americans, as opposed to and argument as to whethere genocide occured or not. let's remember, the savage definition is enshrined in the declaration of independence AND the constitution. found this link to pop the other side. http://bsnorrell.tripod.com/id29.html

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#13)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:54:52 PM EST
    I'll take only 50K to stop commenting on this site.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 02:02:12 PM EST
    Ignore me all you want, Roy. But it just doesn't stand to reason that you would post that "stuff" and not want a response. So I gave you one. The first site was just more conspiracy writing with very little understanding about the facts that are twisted to fit a certain presumption the sites creator obviously already had. I enjoy some conspiracy theories of my own (Shrub stole the election and his re-election, Cheney is a raging alcoholic and nobody in the MSM has the guts to publish anything about it, Gannon/Guckert is a nice person, etc.) but I don't subscribe to any of them as the gospel truth either. The video is inconclusive as well, but I don't suppose this will deter you. Let's be adults and just talk with a little bit of truth here. You don't like Churchill's analysis of the causes and consequences of 9/11. Great, then just say so. Don't try to cover it with some kind of righteous indignation about he is plagirist, a traitor, ad naseum. Just say what you mean and quit with all the useless propaganda railing against one of the horrible academic "elite" in this country. CU has a CONTRACT with the man and must buy him out, otherwise they will be sued, probably lose, and then end up paying him more money. It is that simple. They can't just fire the man. I am not a huge fan of the guy either but I don't try to cover it up with a bunch of pseudo intellectual claims as to the veracity of his papers, whether or not he beat up a reporter, or any of the other reasons the Right Wing of this country hate him. Brownshirts,Right Wing, hmmm? I wonder if there is any kind of connection here? Ignore away Roy, I will be in good company laughing at your crap assertions.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#15)
    by demohypocrates on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 02:26:47 PM EST
    dadler, hmmmm. Churchill introduces a very specific genocide argument. ppj posts to a very specific piece which directly challenges Churchill's thesis. dadler introduces a "hmmm. since manifest destiny posited....". Manifest destiny posited? Manifest destiny posited? hmmmm. I'd like to meet manifest destiny. Sounds like he has some good posits. hmmm, wtf are you talking about? The argument was over a specific allegation. I thought the rebuttal to Churchill was effective. I thought Churchill's scholarship is suspect. But at least he has a semblance of scholarship. YOU have a laziness of opinion, a laziness of language and a laziness of scholarship. hmmmm. hmmm.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 02:50:25 PM EST
    I can't believe I am saying this, but I read the link in the earlier PPJ post and agree with demohypocrates that it was a good refutation of a specific claim Churchill made. The reason I have never been a booster of Churchill is because he tends to over exaggerate and sometimes completely misread or misquote his sources. I believe he brings a much needed fiery rhetoric to the lefties, whom have been acting like geldings for the last couple of decades, but I also subscribe to the view that when he makes claims that are supposedly backed up by others scholarly work then he had better get it right or otherwise not cite them at all. I don't mind people who speak with some fire , but you gotta get it right. Last post of the day. Promise.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 03:11:21 PM EST
    No criminal charges have been filed against Churchill, so people who bray that Churchill is guilty of treason, etc. sound wildly unreasonable to me. If you don't live in Colorado you might not be aware of the Rocky Mountian News' obsessive fixation on Churchill, and the obnoxious, non-stop talk-radio flogging of Churchill by Caplis, Silverman and Peter Boyles, with distiguished Churchill-bashing guests such as Gov. Owens and Congressman Bob Beauprez. I mean, it's unreal how long this has gone on, and I wonder if it has crossed a line into harassment and defamation of Churchill. I'm a CU grad and I don't want to see the university get sued. I don't want Churchill to win. But I also don't want to see talk-radio vigilantism triumph. It's a no-win no matter how I look at it, but a buyout may put the controvery to rest soonest.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 03:14:33 PM EST
    demo, i made my point perfectly clear. this entire issue isn't about whether ward churchill is someone we hate or love, whether he's a sloppy academic or not, it's whether what he wrote about 9/11 constitutes speech that deserves to get him fired, bought out, tarred and feathered, whatever. as per his genocide and smallpox blankets claim, my point was we used many means of exterminating native americans, since they were "savages" -- trail of tears, wounded knee, broken treaty after broken treaty, etc... and this argument about ward churchill's scholarship on the issue is NOT about whether genocide happened; it's simply about whether his claim about the smallpox blankets is documented -- which, from the links provided, it doesn't look to be. forgive me for having the opinion of a free person. wait, scratch that, don't. to quote david mamet, from the pultizer prize-winning play "glenngary glen ross": "you child. who the f*ck told you you could work with men?" peace.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#19)
    by demohypocrates on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 03:47:38 PM EST
    Lisa, What a weird notion of free specch you must have. Its ok to call 9/11 victims 'little Eichmanns' but how dare people get angry and criticize you over saying it. Speech invites speech. And really stupid speech can invite a helluva a lot of it. dadler, we weren't arguing about how right Churchill is or was, or about the saliency of his political points. It is about his merits as a scholar. I have never argued he should be fired, but, from what I have read, the man merits little worth for his scholarship. Put this weakling on your shoulders because of some perceived suffering by the Kick- a-Poo Injuns, but your credibility will wither like his already has.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 03:52:46 PM EST
    Jim, laying manure as usual: "This is the conclusion by Thomas Brown, Lamar University" Actually, not: "While there was a smallpox epidemic on the Plains in 1837, historians agree that it was accidental, and the Army wasn’t involved." Some people say is not a conclusion. HIstorians don't agree on who wrote Shakespeare, much less on controversial issues dealing with the genocide of the first nations. Brown's next paper will prove (by assertion) that the US military killed the bison NOT to starve out the indians and destoy their way of life, but becaues bison were hurting the habitat of the endangered Kansas field mouse. You liberals might have preferred to have allowed the Kansas field mouse to be made extinct by liberal inaction and 'bison-hugging', but our US military achieved the goal of saving the cute little critters, for all eternity, by shooting every bison they could find, and leaving the meat to rot on the Plains. Brown also notes that he is a member of the Sierra club and once gave a schoolkid a nickel so he could buy candy, so there. Brown's field is SOCIOLOGY, from the Department of Sociology, Social Work, and Criminal Justice. How is he qualified ot assess the historical evidence? His work is in modern race relations. As such, he is doing rightwing work trying to dispossess people who claim indian descent (WC is not his first, or main, target). Here's a paper he presented in 1999, see if you can get the drift: Trimming the Family Tree: The Social Construction of Multi-Racial Ancestry                 Is it any surprise that he published his initial attack on the website of (pro-Israel rightwing racist) David Horowitz? He's a shill. He's also a "Democrat" and a board member of the local ACLU chapter. So that's OK, then. Churchill dismissed the claim with one sentence: "He found a footnote he disagrees with."

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 04:45:43 PM EST
    Demohypocrates, it's not about free speech. Just ask Churchill's hardcore critics. Most of those who are calling for his ouster claim that it's not because of the little Eichmanns comment. It's because, they say, Churchill has commited crimes such as fraud, treason, incitement. And yet, no criminal charges have been filed. The more I listen to Churchill's critics the more they sound like a lynch mob to me. Look, if the guy has committed crimes, he should be tried in the courts, not on a radio call-in show. If Churchill is unfit to hold a job at the university, let the Regents make that determination. That's their job. If you don't like how they handle it, elect different Regents. There are systems and people in place to handle this situation, yet vigilantes insist on taking Churchill's fate into their hands. That's what I object to.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 05:05:20 PM EST
    Lisa, the reason no charges have been filed for Churchill ripping off 'Winter Attack' and other artworks is because the owners want to wait and see if Churchill takes the bait. The windfall will be much larger after Churchill is $10M richer.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#23)
    by Richard Aubrey on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 05:12:28 PM EST
    As I said earlier, they can't fire the guy. To do that, considering his tenure, they'd have to prove his work is inadequate. Since they would never (wink) hire somebody whose work was inadequate, then it would follow they'd have to show his work went downhill after he was hired. If they can't show that, if he could show--however it would be defined--that he's either improved or not declined in his work, then CU has a problem. Either they admit his work isn't inadequate or they admit they hired him knowing--or that they didn't bother to look--that his work was inadequate. Ditto promoted and tenured him. In other words, to try to fire the guy the admin will demonstrate they really, really screwed up. That they got all weak in the knees with a fake-brave, insane lefty speaking truth to power with all those rough edges that cause other lefties to wet themselves (in a good way) and hired him precisely because he was who he was. And then were afraid to do anything about it. They were inflicting this moron on the students of CU at the taxpayers' expense because they couldn't think of a way out of their mistake. That's why they get the big bucks; to duck solving problems. BTW, to claim that, since he hasn't been indicted for a crime he therefore hasn't committed any is wild, even for this board.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#24)
    by roy on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 05:14:56 PM EST
    Lisa, I think you use terms like "lynch mob" and "vigilantes" to demonize Churchill's critics. It's just talk. Talking is not lynching or vigilantism. Talking is part of how we deal with being unsatisfied with our government. The Regents and Churchill are all government employees. (Not counting the death threats he's gotten; those probably aren't from radio talk show hosts)
    ...let the Regents make that determination. That's their job. If you don't like how they handle it, elect different Regents.
    That's a fine mentality to have, but talking about public officials and the situations they deal with is also an important part of the democratic process. We're supposed to second guess officials. It helps them know what their jobs are, and it helps us as society coordinate our goals.
    There are systems and people in place to handle this situation, yet vigilantes insist on taking Churchill's fate into their hands.
    Those systems are people are mostly paid for by taxes. Taxpayers should complain if they don't like what they're getting for their money. Those "Vigilantes" aren't taking anything into their hands, it's just talk. (For clarity, I think Churchill is a jackass who shouldn't have gotten tenure. He can't be fired for his Eichman essay or for being too white, but he can and should be fired for other faults that showed up because of his celebrity. The only crimes he's commited are assault and copyright violation.)

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 05:32:04 PM EST
    Christ, Talk Left. This thread is a Conservative censor mob. No Lisa/Selise - its not your imagination. You're completely surrounded by brown shirts. My opinion is back on the last Ward Churchill thread. Treason? Forget Eichmann, I'm sure Goebbels would approve.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 06:19:01 PM EST
    Roy, it's just talk, you say. Unless it's something Churchill has said, in which case it's incitement or treason, right? Talk-show hosts Caplis and Silverman have started a drive to solicit pledges from people for a CU legal defense fund. The fund is to convince the university to do the right thing and fire Churchill. The fund will cover legal expenses incurred when Churchill sues for wrongful termination. Firing Churchill is a matter of principle, they say, and with a war chest of donated cash, the university will be able to fight. I'm not a lwayer, so I don't understand how that's not a bribe or undue influence of some kind. They're saying: Fire Churchill and we'll give you a big pile of money. We know that charitable donations to the institution have declined, the legislature isn't eager to give you more money, and cash-cow out-of-state enrollments are dropping. So play this Churchill thing our way, and we'll make it worth your while. But it's all just talk, right?
    Taxpayers should complain if they don't like what they're getting for their money. Those "Vigilantes" aren't taking anything into their hands, it's just talk.
    I'm a taxpayer and what I'm getting for my money in this case is a bulwark against a howling mob that demands the immediate termination of a state employee without due process. Priceless.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimcee on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 07:22:29 PM EST
    Who would think that some old hippie would have the power to get people to care about him either way. If you're on the Right and want him to go away, ignore him. Of course he is an easy whipping boy for you. If you are on the Left and want to defend his freedom of speech as well as his lucrative salary I have one question: Why would you be willing to pay the public salary of a civil servant that was anything but civil and quite frankly not much of a intellectual? What does this fraud of a intellectual bring to the table except the lowering of discourse and a cheapening of history. UofC@Boulder should be ashamed for having hired this clown in the first place. Both sides should be ashamed to have wasted this amount of time on this fool. Or are we all fools to have given him a minute of our time. This is less a First Amendment issue than it is of politics and most of all, class. Ward Churchill and the word "class" do not fit in the same sentence. Anyway,I believe his 15 minutes are up, eh?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#28)
    by Richard Aubrey on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 07:24:27 PM EST
    Lisa. Suppose they went through due process and then fired him? The legal fund would still be necessary because there would be some shyster willing to sue. Since CU is planning to buy the guy out, the likelihood is that they would settle without a trial. Easy money all around. But, the question remains; How serious are you about due process? Are you interested in it solely because it looks as if it might not be called into play and thus provides you an excuse? Or would you go along peaceably if they did the box-xing and i-dotting and then fired him?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 07:38:38 PM EST
    Why would you be willing to pay the public salary of a civil servant that was anything but civil and quite frankly not much of a intellectual? Yep. That's how it starts. We turn our backs on the ones singled out as an easy target then ignore it later once it becomes commonplace. WC is publically inept; a pseudo-intellectual who fails to draw the line between intentions, apathy, and complicity even when directly challenged, given a national forum, and a second chance to make the point the right way while admitting to oversimplification earlier. Later, we will ask ourselves how it could possibly have gotten to that point, in much the same way that we looked back on McCarthyism in the 1980s. Only now, history has been rewritten and society is now encouraged to repeat that kind of zero sum thought. Treason.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 07:44:33 PM EST
    The reason why Ward Churchill is news, and the dire poverty of the Lakota in Rosebud SD is not, is that there are well-funded rightwingers out trying to stir this kind of overcooked beans from the botteom of the pot, in order to give their antidemocratic, antiamerican, racist, antisocial agenda more time to destroy the restrictions on their corporate buddies. They have had their watchlists for years; once the liberals get their own, all of a sudden the blogdomain is 'getting out of control.' Meanwhile, reports of napalm use on the trapped people of Fallujah continue to filter out of Iraq, and the howls of cheapsuit fake scholars like Brown (who somehow went from a PhD at John Hopkins to an Associate Professorship at Lamar), come out of the fundie, white supremacist woodwork to fake some talking points on the dangerous left that wants to STOP the use of napalm on innocent human beings. The Klan: Bush, Bolton, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rice, Negroponte, and the murderers at Centcom. Eichmanns? Horowitz is an outright Arab-hating racist. His only flaw is that he doesn't make the trains run on time. He just hosts liars like Brown, and helps his clan of inbreds grind the rightwing radio-machine as loud as they can, so their MONKEY can dance on the dead bodies of the innocent. "Heh, heh, it's just like Wounded Knee and the Trail of Tears! Smallpox blankets got nothing on F16s with napalm. Hey, Condi, get me that Congressman who wants to nuke Syria on the phone. I want to give him one of them 'freedom' awards."

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 07:45:38 PM EST
    Yes, Richard -- if there are grounds for termination, fire the guy. It's like the Gary Barnett thing -- I don't like him and I'll never give another dime to CU while he's there, but I understand that the Regents can't just march into his office and fire him simply because a lot of people despise him. That's not fair. CU may be exposed to a lawsuit regardless of when/how they fire someone, but if they follow their policies and document real grounds for termination, at least they'll have their credibility. The alternative -- firing based on public mood -- would be shameful, IMO.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 09:34:11 PM EST
    Sherman - He was hired to teach, not bring a "much needed fire..." Paul In LA - I quoted a person. You may disagree with the person. You may say the person is wrong. You may even say the person is lying. But just because I quoted him, that doesn't mean that I have lied. Now. I realize that you can make such claims against Bush. But it is past time for you and your potty mouth to understand what is, and is not, lying, and to act like a person who could have a civil discourse on a personal level. Which, BTW, I doubt you capable of. Lisa Jones - You can call Peter Boyles many things, but a right winger isn't one of them. As a CU grad, why aren't you saying that CU should either let the guy alone, or fire him. If the states own university cannot or will not take a stand, what possible good is it? Buying him off smacks of the worst kind of intelluctal dishonesty. jimcee - Your comment made remember a song.... Bring in the clowns... don'ty know why. Lsia Jones - Do you know the reasons for termination by CU of a tenured professor? They are rather specific. Please get a grip on your logic. There is no due process when an employee is terminated. If the employee thinks they have been wronged, then they can sue. That is due process. dadler - I assume your childhood comment is about your self. But do be careful. Self analysis is painful.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 09:45:49 PM EST
    Posted by Jim: "Paul In LA - I quoted a person." No, you tried to spread, yet again, a rightwing, false, talking point. As I have explained to you ad infinitum before, that a professor is involved in controversy IS THEIR JOB. A dispassionate view of this particular FAKE RIGHTWING CRISIS would reveal that WC has stimulated his students, the CU, the state of C and H (and the rest). Indeed, against the vacuum in the media about the crimes, warcrimes, and terrorism BY BUSH AND HIS PALS, as well as the US gov't in the past, against native peoples, against American first nations (who are owed $7 Billion in missing funds), and against INNOCENT Arabs who have the bad grace to be sitting on our oil, Ward Churchills comments, studies, art efforts, and attempts to protect himself from abuse, come off as ANT TURDS in the scheme of things. " You may disagree with the person. You may say the person is wrong." I may point out that the guy is a rightwing shill working on dispossessing native peoples. " You may even say the person is lying. But just because I quoted him, that doesn't mean that I have lied." I can't hear you, Jim, over the sound of your manure spreader. Whose fault is that?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 11:17:08 PM EST
    Lisa Jones - You can call Peter Boyles many things, but a right winger isn't one of them.
    PPJ, I never called him a right winger. I referred to him as an obnoxious non-stop flogger of Churchill. Same thing?
    As a CU grad, why aren't you saying that CU should either let the guy alone, or fire him.
    I said it's a no-win situation. I favor a buy out because I'd like to see the whole fiasco wrapped up asap.
    If the states own university cannot or will not take a stand, what possible good is it? Buying him off smacks of the worst kind of intelluctal dishonesty.
    It would be far worse if CU caved into bullying from the governor et al, or accepted 'fire Churchill' funds from goofy talk-show hosts, IMO.
    Lsia Jones - Do you know the reasons for termination by CU of a tenured professor? They are rather specific.
    Not so easy to fire the guy, is it? Oh well. Cheer up.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#35)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 02:14:22 AM EST
    Tampa, Way to invent melodrama. Every petulant liberal cries McCarthyism when they cower. It must be a rite of passage to victimhood. You wear it well. Your benefactor doesnt.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 03:59:09 AM EST
    "W... is publically inept; a pseudo-religious liar who fails to draw the line between lying about his intentions, lying about his actions, and lying about his complicity in disasters, even when directly challenged, given a national forum, and a second chance to make the point the right way while admitting to oversimplification earlier, which he has never done. Admit an error, that is. Later, we will ask ourselves how it could possibly have gotten to that point, in much the same way that we looked back on McCarthyism in the 1950s. Only now, history has been rewritten, hundreds of thousands have been killied for no reason, and society is now encouraged to repeat that kind of zero sum thought. Treason. "

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#37)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 10:10:40 AM EST
    Roy said: It's just talk No, it's a deliberate campaign to ruin the career of a man who simply gave his opinion.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 10:54:32 AM EST
    Lisa Jones - Based on your evasive answer, I assume you didn't read the employment terms. If CU thinks he should not be terminated, they should say so and leave him alone. If they think he should be fired, they should do it and be prepared to defend their position. Cost should not even be considered. An organization that will not enfoce its rules is morally weak at best. Morally corrupt at worst. As an alumni I would think you would so embarassed that you would be demanding a clear resolution, not trying to sneak away. Unless, of course, you are using this as a way to defend Churhill. Which, BTW, the whole world will view the pay off as. And CU's problem's will have just begun. Paul In LA - So you believe it is okay for you to have free speech and say many things about Bush (for ecample), but no one else has that right? Hypocritical to the max, eh? TS and PIL - McCarthy was a guy who started off trying to do good. There were spies and traitors in the government.(See Vernona Project.) Along the way he lost his perspective and control and started doing harm. The Democrats were able to marginalize him because of that. The Republicans have done the same thing to the present day Left.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#39)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 12:51:03 PM EST
    Che, Apparently he gave other people's opinions also. He is a plagiarist and intimidated his victim tnto silence.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#40)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 12:58:36 PM EST
    Dem, BS. You folks didn't give a rat's ass about Churchill til you incorrectly heard what he said. And not til 3 years after he said it! Since then it's been a witchunt. He's a plagerist! Give me a F***ing break. Want someone to check your closet?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#41)
    by roy on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 01:14:43 PM EST
    Demohypocrates,
    He is a plagiarist and intimidated his victim tnto silence.
    What evidence is there that Churchill intimidated the original artist? Che,
    You folks didn't give a rat's ass about Churchill til you incorrectly heard what he said.
    On behalf of the Right, I promise to complain about people before hearing about them from now on.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 01:17:22 PM EST
    If CU thinks he should not be terminated, they should say so and leave him alone. If they think he should be fired, they should do it and be prepared to defend their position. Cost should not even be considered.
    Cost should not even be considered? PPJ, this comment alone betrays the grandiose idiocy of your so-called principled position. This is a state-funded school. I don't want to see them waste millions in a pissing match with Churchill. With a buyout in the $500K range, CU is closing the book on this inexpensively.
    As an alumni I would think you would so embarassed that you would be demanding a clear resolution, not trying to sneak away. Unless, of course, you are using this as a way to defend Churhill. Which, BTW, the whole world will view the pay off as. And CU's problem's will have just begun.
    Maybe you missed my earlier posts on this subject. I'm not demanding anything from CU. I have confidence that the Regents and the courts can handle it. I don't want Churchill at CU. I don't want him to "win." Nor do I want the hysterical yackers and right-wing vigilantes who keep stirring this stinkfest to "win." And, ultimately it's a no-win. If Churchill is fired, everyone knows it will be because of his views. If he stays at CU, the school will never get past it. If you care about CU, free speech and hearing/reading about something other than Churchill, a buyout makes the most sense.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#43)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 01:28:14 PM EST
    roy, This isn't the case of the artwork. It is something entirely different. And very much more damning, imo. He is a thug and a punk. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7156384/

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 02:37:44 PM EST
    Jim: "Paul In LA - "So you believe it is okay for you to have free speech and say many things about Bush (for ecample), but no one else has that right? Hypocritical to the max, eh?" I know, I know, it's hard to believe that Bush stole TWO presidential terms, but he did. Ward Churchill is not in gov't, and isn't starting wars for profit. But I understand -- with all that manure spreading, it must be hard to see through the sh*t. I simply can't reach Bush's level of hypocrisy, but you do give it an effort, Jim. Demohypocrite fails to note that when he attacks Ward Churchill for supposed crimes, his buddy Bushliar has killed 100,000 people, committed a coup in Haiti, that has killed 1,000s of people, and lied his way through two stolen elections. Those aren't supposed crimes against single individuals, those are treasonous crimes which have increased the possibility that 10s or 100s of thousands of Americans will die from terrorist attack. You are on your way to being hated forever, Demohyp.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#45)
    by Richard Aubrey on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 02:40:35 PM EST
    Hated by such as you, Dem? I recall Hap Arnold being quoted as saying, "I am being nibbled to death by pissants". As to stolen elections--proof, please? Coup in Haiti? This is Earth, Dem. Recalibrate your brain.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#46)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 03:05:50 PM EST
    Suffice to dsay, Paul, you have embarrassed yourself in ways I couldnt have dreamed of. Thanks for making my job easier.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 03:55:28 PM EST
    My comparison to McCarthyism is dead on. Its not confined to this circumstance, this example. It started somewhere around September 11, 2001 and goes on to this day. "love it or leave it". Go tune into Rupert's lies and stroke your pathetic ego.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 04:42:02 PM EST
    "Much needed fire"? I think others have provided better writing, more cogent arguments, and more light and heat than Churchill. Actually, how many people in this discussion had heard of him before this fracas? Ward is guilty of treason by adhering to America’s enemies. OK, then so is Ann Coulter. Yawn... can we take the language down a notch? ("adhering." Makes me picture somebody picking him up, slathering crazy glue on him, and sticking him to somebody else. Disturbing image. Maybe I need more coffee.)

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 05:20:09 PM EST
    Sherman Look up the word ‘fascist’, then get back to me.... I guess simply stating your deferring opinion doesn’t if your intolerant ideology. Your childish misspellings, leave us some insight as to the limit of your intellect. I don’t have a ready answer for that. One of the things I’ve suggested is that it may be that more 9/11s are necessary. This seems like such a no-brainer that I hate to frame it in terms of actual transformation of consciousness.~ WC Personally I heard Mr Churchill talk about 9/11 and say something to the effect of “why did it take them to do something, you should have done along time ago” That to me that is adhering to our enemies. But I don’t anticipate Ward being formally charged. You should have more respect for us “right wingers” we freed the slaves. The first two African American Senators were also “right wingers” from Mississippi, all the way back in 1870. I am afraid after that your intolerant party took over and for the next 100 years denied African Americans the right to vote.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 05:38:25 PM EST
    Paul in LA Do you know how many people Saddam killed? Your bombastic numbers wouldn’t even compare. Are you against democracy in the middle east?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#51)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 06:26:31 PM EST
    Burgerboy, And we sanctioned 90% of the killings. Even helped him supress the resistance. At the very least we stood by as informed accomplices.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 06:45:36 PM EST
    C'mon, Che. Surely you understand that situational nuances often require a reevaluation of perspective. We voted for him before we voted against him, remember?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 06:52:30 PM EST
    You should have more respect for us “right wingers” we freed the slaves. The first two African American Senators were also “right wingers” from Mississippi, all the way back in 1870. I am afraid after that your intolerant party took over and for the next 100 years denied African Americans the right to vote. Burger: I'm not sure whether you're really an imbecile or if you're being intentionally dishonest. Conservative does not equal Republican. Liberal does not equal Democrat. Earth to Burger: Zero Sum thinking leads to erroneous conclusions. The parties switched ideologies regarding civil rights between 1950 and 1970. Get a clue. Tell me Burger, which present day party would have more in common with the Federalists?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 07:14:22 PM EST
    Lisa - "This is a state-funded school. I don't want to see them waste millions in a pissing match with Churchill. With a buyout in the $500K range, CU is closing the book on this inexpensively." Hmmm, Lisa. That puts CU into the same situation that is described when a man asks a woman for sex for a million dollars. When she agreed, he offered her $10.00. "Sir," she said. "Who do you think I am?" "Madam," he replied, "We have established that. We are now determing your price." TS - You wouldn't know McCarthyism if it was biting you on your behind. There is no HUAC. There are no loyalty oaths. There are no congress people demanding to know the politics of our Hollywood actors. It doesn't exist. Get over it.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 07:47:24 PM EST
    TS Your right, I should have used Republican, instead of rightwing. You should have more respect for us “Republicans” we freed the slaves. The first two African American Senators were also “Republicans” from Mississippi, all the way back in 1870.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 07:47:51 PM EST
    Huh? If CU pays Churchill to go away, CU is a prostitute? PPJ, you must be something special if, in your world, prostitutes pay their johns. The only application I can see for your crude analogy is this: Everyone is getting f--ked, and CU is paying to make it stop.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#57)
    by Richard Aubrey on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 07:58:49 PM EST
    Lisa. You may be on to something here. CU is a masochistic john. They pay to have clowns like Whitey Churchill do this stuff to them. It's so delicious. Look up "frisson". I think that's French for "cheap thrills". CU gets to think they're edgy. Diverse. Speak truth to power. And nobody can do anything about it. They're just as wacky and anti-American as an Ivy League campus. If a student complains, flunk him or sentence him to some kind of hate-speech salt mine. If a citizen complains, call him a redneck and smear him in the media. Maybe this is stretching the john thing a bit. But now CU has to pay to make it stop. They paid to start it. Now they're paying to make it go away. The Regents are the ones who should be looking for another line of work. I understand Mr. Peepers is coming back and they need a bunch of stand-ins.

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 09:42:18 PM EST
    Tampa Student The parties switched ideologies regarding civil rights between 1950 and 1970. Get a clue. I only hear Democrats claim that. Mississippi didn’t vote another Republican into the senate until 1978. So from 1880-1978 all Democrat Senators coming from Mississippi. If the ideologies switched, why didn’t the voters?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 10:45:54 PM EST
    Lisa - You can't be that obtuse. The point was that CU is making an ass out of itself. To return to the earlier comments regarding McCarthyism by PIL and TS, I can only say: CU. Have you no shame?

    Re: Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Chu (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 11, 2005 at 10:54:59 PM EST
    Posted by Richard Aubrey: "Hated by such as you, Dem?" History, and America. How about this tasty quote: "This war will last 6 days, or 6 weeks, I don't think it will last 6 months." --Don Rumsfeld Do you not think that someone who is SO wrong about an illegal invasion should RESIGN? He is going to be hated by history, even if the Cowardly Liar protects him now. "As to stolen elections--proof, please?" Proven: the Justice Dept., REQUIRED BY LAW to investigate both elections (2000, 2004) refused to investigate either. We have signed affidavits from election officials in Ohio that Triad Systems changed out the computer boards and software on counting computers across the state (felonies) TO PREVENT A LEGALLY-ORDERED RECOUNT from occuring. They also supplied false numbers to report (another set of felonies). And the SecState head of Bush's campaign REFUSED to allow the legally-ordered recount to take place. The Justice Dept.? Not interested in investigating felonies. "Coup in Haiti?" Removed Aristide by force of arms, turned him over to Bush's merc company Blackwater. C. Rice said on the record that she didn't want Aristide TO BE IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE. Gee, democratically-elected leader not supposed to be in the hemisphere because the National Security Advisor says she doesn't want him there. Don't see anything wrong with that picture? Posted by BurgerBoy: "Do you know how many people Saddam killed?" I do, because unlike you, I was PROTESTING Reagan/Bush when they and their envoy Don Rumsfeld were SUPPLYING Hussein with chemical and biological weapons while he was doing those genocides. You were yelling at me that I was unpatriotic for attacking R/B/R for their illegal, unconscionable actions. "Your bombastic numbers wouldn’t even compare." So, Bush can commit genocide, but his numbers are too low. That's your point? "Are you against democracy in the middle east?" What part of SIXTEEN US AIRBASES in a sovereign country do you consider democracy? There is no democracy if there is no self-rule. If there is self-rule, then why is the US still there, since all evidence suggests that Iraqis want the US gone.

    Regent Confirms Instructions to Offer Ward Churchill Buyout | 60 comments (60 topical)