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Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Fri Mar 18, 2005 at 09:07:49 PM EST
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How low can you go? How about bringing your 80 year old mother along on your Socical Security Road Show to reassure seniors that their social security benefits are safe.

Too bad most seniors don't have the Bushco family fortune behind them so they too won't suffer when it turns out to be a lie.

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    Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security | 28 comments (28 topical)
    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 04:53:26 AM EST
    I guess the kid who memorizes presidential trivia wasn't enough.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 05:39:47 AM EST
    Is this any lower than dragging a triple amputee around with you to shore up your "war hero" credentials? Or using your children as props in your campaign commercials? Come on. This is pretty small and petty stuff when your mission is supposed to be "liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news". Or are you claiming the little lady was there against her will?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:15:08 AM EST
    The tactics this little man uses to achieve his goals are beyond belief. When will he give his father equal time to retract his own evaluation of privatizing SS of twenty years ago (the same time frame when W was espousing privatizing) that privatizing is a 'nutty idea' and basically mean-spirited and not worthy of a democratic society?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:17:32 AM EST
    You gotta love it. Like Babs has any clue about social security. Why don't they trot out some people who count on social security to live on. Oh yeah, they would be against privatization.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#5)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:39:46 AM EST
    “Why don't they trot out some people who count on social security to live on. Oh yeah, they would be against privatization.” Better idea, lets ask those same folks how much more of your money they wouldn’t mind taking through the force of the feds. It’s not charity when it the money is taken by force; it’s certainly not charity when a recipient has the same vote as a donor.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#6)
    by wishful on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:43:14 AM EST
    pw, where ever did you get the idea that Social Security was set up as a charitable foundation?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#7)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 07:30:31 AM EST
    “pw, where ever did you get the idea that Social Security was set up as a charitable foundation?” I don’t know what else you could call it. For example, I live in the heart of the LDS church. When Mormon faithful fall on hard times, disability or the death of a primary wage earner, they receive financial support from the church. The difference between the Mormons and the feds is how willing their donors are. Further, the retirement savings portion of SS is still wealth transfer. The bottom third of wage earners will receive ~200% of their contributions back in benefits; the top 2/3 won’t break even. We can play games of semantics, insurance and so forth, but pragmatically speaking a system that transfers wealth from better off to poor is charity. When donations are coerced by government force, it’s SS or FSP etc.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 07:53:58 AM EST
    Why not trot out a few people who, like me, are facing another 30 years of being forced to pay into this grand scheme only to be told that the benefits we were promised will not be there for us when we retire. Let's see what they have to say about it. As for using "Babs": If the Democrats and the AARP are going to continue trying to scare grandma with their lies and hysteria, it only behooves the President to present a different viewpoint for that same age group. It's all part of the art of persuasion, which I can forgive some for failing to understand since they, for the most part, gave up on persuasion and opted for forced collectivization a long time ago. Like the unions, if Social Security was such a great idea, we wouldn't have to be forced into it.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#9)
    by wishful on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:05:38 AM EST
    pw, words matter. SS is not a charity. Is the establishment and maintenance of our court system charity, or part of a functional government made possible by the citizens pooling their resources for the "common" good? The civil court spends more of the justice system pie than the criminal, and is more heavily used by the wealthy and corporations than your average individual citizen, yet average citizens are forced to support it. Is this bad? Is this charity? How would we conduct the business of democracy without pooling resources and deciding how to run things? Social Security has a slight progressive bent, for those making up to about $90000/yr. Unless you believe that the trust fund doesn't exist. Then the bent is truly regressive--but that's another story altogether. Social Security actually benefits all of society by some using it more than others, just like our civil courts do. We can't survive without commerce which is supported by the courts, so the average joe pays in more than he uses and likes living in a functioning democracy. Social Security keeps the rotting corpses of the old, the disabled, the widows and orphans out of your path so you don't have to bother yourself stepping over them on your way to your destination. Maybe one of those orphans who would not otherwise have the chance, will discover the cure to cancer or the way to prevent all abortions that everyone will buy in to. How would that be for giving back to society for its investment in treating its people with some modicum of decency. And it is the citizens of this great society that think this is the right thing to do. It is NOT charity--it is the result of the one of the best models of a society that humans have yet come up with, even though our society still can be improved. Be glad you were born here and have this as your birthright.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:30:07 AM EST
    My grandparents were there and said Bush's mother STOLE the show!! Said she was great, crowd loved her. What I thought was a tacky decision, turned out to be marketing genious! Who knew?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#11)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:33:13 AM EST
    “[civil court] is more heavily used by the wealthy and corporations than your average individual citizen, yet average citizens are forced to support it. Is this bad? Is this charity?” It is bad, and is effectively charity. Folks should pay for that portion of the public infrastructure they use. “How would we conduct the business of democracy without pooling resources and deciding how to run things?” As the economy becomes more centralized, the nation becomes less free. Remember, this isn’t simply a representative democracy, but rather a constitutional republic designed to protect us from the tyranny of the majority. To your second to last paragraph; the government cannot mandate affluence or decency. The SS system and welfare in general is a reflection of the majority’s will to be charitable, it doesn’t exist in spite of public sentiment. If charity were eliminated from the federal agenda tomorrow the streets wouldn’t fill with the corpses of rotting old folks. Rather, average people would do exactly what they have compelled the federal government to do; but more discerning, more flexible, and certainly cheaper. And perhaps the growing sense of entitlement would be tempered by the possible consequences, when folks are faced with truly willing but non-compulsory donors.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:33:30 AM EST
    Bush did what to his mother? can he go to prison for that? bush and family will do anything and some times to each other.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:42:24 AM EST
    I wonder if people like pigwiggle buy auto or homeowners insurance only if they are planning to total their car or burn down their house? Insurance, which is a key component of Social Security, is a bad deal for everybody but the limited few who end up needing it. But anybody with anything to protect buys insurance. Social Security protects our society, and it's a good deal for the overwhelming majority of people.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#14)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:58:39 AM EST
    “I wonder if people like pigwiggle buy auto or homeowners insurance only if they are planning to total their car or burn down their house? Insurance, which is a key component of Social Security …” My homeowners policy, and likewise auto, will only pay under a few specific circumstances. SS always pays out, no matter if my retirement investments pay big, or if I don’t save a nickel; I will receive the exact same quantity of benefits. Call it what you like, it isn’t insurance in the colloquial or literal sense. “Social Security protects our society, and it's a good deal for the overwhelming majority of people.” I don’t know where you get this idea. The SS program isn’t designed to create wealth, but rather is a transfer of wealth. If some folks benefit by a given amount then there are other folks who are penalized by that exact same amount.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 10:15:26 AM EST
    pw says,
    SS always pays out, no matter if my retirement investments pay big, or if I don’t save a nickel; I will receive the exact same quantity of benefits. Call it what you like, it isn’t insurance in the colloquial or literal sense
    It was intended for what it was intended for, call it what you will colloquially or literally. It indeed does pay out the same regardless of the status of your investment accounts. And that as it was intended. If through the richness that is life, you have lost your investments or your ability to invest, and do not have income through means other than wages, your SS benefits save your life. If you are one of God's fortunate children, SS benefits won't make much difference. That is the plan we devised, and it works quite well, in particular for the middle and lower working classes who are at significant risk of misery for the rest of their lives if God does not so smile on them. For the wealthy, they don't need any such program. Maybe that's why there is a cap on the wages subject to FICA withholding, and why no income but wages are so taxed. It is basically a safety net for the WORKING people, by the working people.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 11:29:33 AM EST
    Not one WMD in Iraq. Hating a LIAR who has killed 100000 civilians is NORMAL. And now he and you are lying about SS. Oh my, when you retire in 30 years, you'll only get 80% of your benies. Wow! At least you will still have your arms and legs, eyeballs, ears, and testicles, Ace. Now may some more sucking sounds. Bush's arse is so covered with your hickies that he can't sit down.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 11:29:46 AM EST
    bush and what he did to his mother, brings back fond memories for doctor ace and his relationship with his mother.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 12:14:50 PM EST
    Nothing wrong in hating a man who has condemned thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of foreigners to die. My favorite quote from the Potemkin village tour:"I was telling Mother in the limousine - I don't remember talking to her about 401(k)s when I was a little guy," Bush said. Yep, he was talking to his rich mother in the limo about why us poor folks need to put more money in wall street pockets.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#19)
    by wishful on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:19:13 PM EST
    DA, I never thought of it that way until you so aptly pointed it out. If those three are Bush haters, then Bush is right about everything. Why didn't I see that sooner?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 09:07:26 PM EST
    Dearest No Name - Social Security does not pay the same to everyone. The ammount paid to the payee is dependent on the amount paid in when the payee was a payer. So, it was intended to work like an "investmemt." Izzy - Who knew? The same people who ran his re-election campagin. PIL - Life is too short for hate. It clouds the brain, as you so clearly demonstrate. wishful - The reforms proposed do not remove the insurance portion of SS. In fact, it increases it. Presently, when the husband dies, his portion is severely reduced and passed to the wife. With the reforms, all of the personal accounts go to the wife. Were you aware of the above, and have you considered it?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 01:18:57 AM EST
    Alternative TL headline: Bush Pushes Grandmothers Off Cliff, to Use Their Social Security.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#23)
    by john horse on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 06:19:05 AM EST
    Its a good thing for Republicans that Bush trotted out his mother instead of his mother-in-law. According to George W, she lost $8,000 in the stock market on her Enron stocks. Anybody notice that he doesn't seem to want to talk about that much anymore?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:52:49 AM EST
    PPJ says
    wishful - The reforms proposed do not remove the insurance portion of SS. In fact, it increases it. Presently, when the husband dies, his portion is severely reduced and passed to the wife. With the reforms, all of the personal accounts go to the wife. Were you aware of the above, and have you considered it?
    Jim, were you aware that this is meaningless for those earning up to about $90000/year? These people will be REQUIRED to purchase an annuity upon retirement that provides at least the poverty level income. Economists have calculated that there will be nothing left to inherit after the annuity purchase in the Bush scheme, since all of the projected private investment account will be required. With very optimistic projections, it is estimated that for wage earners who live the average lifespan, 32% will be worse off than they would be under the current plan. With more realistic assumptions, over 70% will be worse off. For those about 30% who are better off, it averages about $1000.00 per year more. See Brad DeLong's site for the info. There will be nothing to inherit, and the living spouse will have NOTHING if she didn't work in order to live the Santorumized lifestyle. Otherwise she will have her own annuity, probably with less benefits than her husband, since wommen generally earn about 70 cents on a dollar to men, and lots take time off to have kids, further reducing their investment.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#26)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:53:23 AM EST
    That was me.

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#27)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 11:01:54 AM EST
    Jim, You DO know that the administration assumes NON inheritable annuities in their scheme, don't you?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#28)
    by Dadler on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 06:40:47 PM EST
    jim, btw, here's a link on bush's "I don't understand how poor people think" quote. to his credit, the complete quote reads much more positively, but not when held up to dubya's actual record of progressively helping the poor and needy. http://blogs.salon.com/0002255/2003/12/02.html"> link

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 06:41:47 PM EST
    dadler - The link doesn't open. Why am I not surprised? "the complete quote reads much more positively, but not when held up to dubya's actual record of" Then why use the incomplete quote? [Ed. Dadler's link was broken due to a missing quotation mark in the html code, we fixed it.] dadler, that is just bad, and I think you know better. I mean, why rant about Gannon? Where is the difference? I am disappointed. wishful - I believe you are referring to the NON-personal account SS dollars. i.e. Same as now. BTW - Can you provide a link on your claims?

    Re: Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security (none / 0) (#30)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 09:25:15 PM EST
    Jim, No, I am talking about the personal account dollars. And I never learned the link thing.(ok, I'm embarassed.) Go to Brad DeLong, Talkleft has a link. He has a post entitled "Shiller: Private Accounts a Bad Deal, on March 19, 2005, at 8:41 am. I hope you can get to it from thid info. Mr. Shiller has quite the credentials.

    Bush Uses His Mother to Push Social Security | 28 comments (28 topical)