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Bush's Failed War on Terror

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:36:28 AM EST
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Two years later, we are no safer. Iraq has become a "training ground for killing Americans.":

Two years after U.S. troops invaded Iraq, Americans are no safer from Islamic terrorism, and the war that President Bush bills as "a vital front of the war on terror" has become a major obstacle in the United States' effort to curb international terrorism, experts warn.

Experts say the war has made the terror problem worse and Bush's "anti-terrorism coalition is crumbling." [link via Cursor.]

So much for our concern for the "culture of life."

Think Progress has more in Iraq by the Numbers.

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    • Bush's Failed War on Terror | 56 comments (56 topical)
    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:22:54 PM EST
    At the moment, the right-wingers can justly claim that there has been no terrorist attack in the US since 911. All because of Bushco's fantastic policies, of course. These guys surely know how to run the world. Freedom, democracy, and pro-US sentiments wherever you look. Let's sit back and enjoy the next 10 years of US full spectrum dominance. The decline of a once great nation has begun.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:53:15 PM EST
    Exactly right. Scoreboard. Bush has made it impossible for these terrorists to act. Don't tell me about the "failed" war on terror when not a damn thing has happend since 9/11. And you know they would have if they could have. I'm certainly happy Bush was in charge at the critical moment and not Al Gore (and ironically enough, I actually voted for Gore. How wrong I was...).

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:05:28 PM EST
    "imagination is more important than knowledge." --Albert Einstein. that the people running this "war on terror" have NEITHER imagination nor knowledge, well, we're getting what we elected. btw, has anyone ever read a thing written solely by g.w. bush? i mean, that he and he alone has written? even a friggin pragraph? i haven't. is it a wonder we're fabulously directionless right now, when we're run by a man who has absolutely no ability to think, put his thoughts on paper, or even into coherent spoken sentences. so sad.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#4)
    by jondee on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:30:51 PM EST
    Not much of a damn thing happened before 9/11 either. So,under his fabulous leadership only 4500+ Americans have been killed,many times more maimed and traumatized - we know the A-rabs and thier little ones dont count - thats a bang up job. And,unlike the situation before 9/11, the majority of the rest of world loves us now and couldnt possibly wish us ill and even if they did,they couldnt do anything to us because President Bush will protect us.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:34:45 PM EST
    dadler - Somebody said we've gone from presidents who used to write thier own speeches to presidents who cant read other peoples speeches.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:19:47 PM EST
    Not much of a damn thing happened before 9/11 either. So,under his fabulous leadership only 4500+ Americans have been killed,many times more maimed and traumatized - we know the A-rabs and thier little ones dont count - thats a bang up job. And,unlike the situation before 9/11, the majority of the rest of world loves us now and couldnt possibly wish us ill and even if they did,they couldnt do anything to us because President Bush will protect us. Here's a great f'ed up message. Let's take this one precious sentence at a time, shall we? Not much of a damn thing happened before 9/11 either. You know what, I'm not much of a blame gamer pre-9/11, because I think it was so extraordinary. But if you're going to put any blame, clearly it's on the President who was offered Osama by the Sundanese government, and declined. We could have also gone after him in Afghanistan, and we didn't. I really don't blame Clinton (who I liked), but do me a favor and at least point the finger at the guy who was in office 8 yrs. pre-9/11 as opposed to 8 months. If nothing else it proves Bush's theory that you go after threats to the US before they mature, no matter what others say. So,under his fabulous leadership only 4500+ Americans have been killed,many times more maimed and traumatized - we know the A-rabs and thier little ones dont count - thats a bang up job. I'd put 3,000 on Clinton's doorstep, if any doorstep. The other 1500 heros have died so the rest of us can live in more security for the rest of our lives. With the dramatic and miraclous reforms taking place in the Middle East I have no doubt that will happen. Not to mention, an insane dictator who would have wiped us off the map in a second if he could have is gone. Most of the Arabs have been killed by other Arabs, not Americans. And,unlike the situation before 9/11, the majority of the rest of world loves us now and couldnt possibly wish us ill and even if they did,they couldnt do anything to us because President Bush will protect us. Many of our allies have acted irresponsibly, some led by primarily financial motives. We are, by far, the most responsible nation in the world when it comes to world safety. In short, that they don't understand that our safety is their safety is their problem, and they will learn eventually, one way or another. Bush has done a terrific job keeping us safe...that's why he's still President...Thankfully it's not Al Gore in charge.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:24:47 PM EST
    TL: I clicked on your "Murder by Numbers" link and lo and behold, the word murder is not used in the article at all. It was also interesting to note that Think Progress did notuse the throughly discredited Lancet study numbers of 100,000 dead that everyone seems to use here. [Ed. Wile, you are correct, I made a mistake. I have changed it to Iraq by the Numbers.]

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:31:43 PM EST
    Don't let the false sense of security lull you to sleep, people. The terrorists aren't done with us just yet. We'll eventually relax our guard, just a little. It has to happen, eventually, has happened in some places after 9/11, actually. So it's only a matter of time. The only question is, what will the target be? One other thing...As bas as 9/11 was, I still regard what Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols did in Oklahoma City as far, far worse. It's one thing for others to take a shot at you. It's another when that shot is coming from inside your own tent. And our government wasn't stopping every U-Haul it saw after that, either.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:42:12 PM EST
    M.B - Sounds like youre quite a good "blame gamer" - Bush had plenty of warnings,including the names of two of the hijackers from Israeli intelligence - guess Clinton shoudve gotten them. You think that 9/11 types are LESS motivated now? Remember fear for life and limb dosnt enter into it. Of course when IT happens, youll blame Al Gore,Clinton,me anyone but that not-accountable- for-anything,unqualified,dyslexic, trust-fund baby who you think is making you safe. Sweet deams.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:14:14 PM EST
    Great satire, MB. I almost took it seriously till that last paragraph. Now I'm laughin'.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#11)
    by Walter on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:01:03 PM EST
    the real reason that nothing has happened is that they no longer let people carrying box knives on the plane.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 05:33:12 PM EST
    "keep the dems out of the office a long long time".... what is a long time and care to wager.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#15)
    by glanton on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:11:26 PM EST
    MB is right. His argument, moreover, articulates perfectly why I can no longer recognize people who I used to think of as my fellows. This is like some science fiction novel, replete with archetypal trappings: an authoritarian government that rules, and extracts even love, entirely by virtue of the rhetorics of fear; a war that can by definition never end, a war in reference to which all clampdowns on civil liberties and human rights are always justified. A concrete jungle, but people happy as long as they can eat at Olive Garden, shop at Wal Mart, and get at least one glance a night at Shep Smith's insidious smile as he reminds them to "stay alert," and to keep watching FOX. So easily fooled, they must be fools. Did I say they? I meant we. How silly. We are all getting what we deserve.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#16)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:14:23 PM EST
    the reason we are losing the war on terror is very simple, there is no war on terror. The war on terror, world war IV and other such contrivences are simply a methodology to keep the sheep afraid so that they will buy and swollow whole the rhetoric and lies that are being dumped on the sheep in monumental amounts. This is clearly a war for oil. Its no more complicated than that. They don't care what kind of govt. is in Iraq as long as it cooperates with the US. I'm sure another terrorist attack on the US would not bother Bush as long as it were only the sheep that were killed. It would be a propaganda bonaza that would allow him to invade Iran and Syria.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#17)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:04:28 PM EST
    Soc, We make the "terrists" happy too cause they can kill americans without necessarily coming here. What a deal all around!

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:01:40 PM EST
    Doctor Ace, feel free to read a different blog if you don't like what you read here. Your constant belittling of the site with nothing of substnace to say is getting tiresome.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:09:50 PM EST
    keep the dems out of the office a long long time".... what is a long time and care to wager. Minimum two more Republican Presidental wins (minimum 11 more years of Republicans in charge...the earliest I see a Dem winning the Presidency). You want to know why? Look at any poll. Who do you trust on terroism, who do trust to keep the country safe? Invaribly, it will be like 60/30 in favor of the Republicans. It's as bad for Democrats on that issue as it is for the Republicans if you ask who do you trust on the enviornment, and what issue do you think is more important to Americans these days? ]Remainder deleted for length. This commenter is limited to four comments a day.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:55:38 PM EST
    Keep up with the asinine rants against Bush....you idiots will not learn until the GOP adds even more seats next election....damn are you dim.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:08:54 PM EST
    The Nationalist Socialist Party in Germany posted amazing electoral progress all through the 1930's. Then they realized the plan for the New German Millenium and they ran into hard times implementing it. They had a hell of a military though. Gave everybody a run for their money. Can't fault their popularity and electoral success except with some minorities and special populations.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:09:02 PM EST
    I would argue that the spread of democracy and the ending of overt state supoort for terrorist groups makes the world a safer place and puts us on track to reduce this scourge (it is foolish to think terror as a tactic will ever go away). Fanatics abound in the mideast- Democratic reforms give them a less deadly outlet and reduces the oppression that breeds such fanaticism. Our soldiers are battling terrorists in Iraq, more and more they are foriegn fighters as more and more Iraqis are at least accepting the new political process (wait and see) if not whole heartedly endorsing it. The Taliban is gone, AQ is a shattered wreck of its former self, and several of its affiliates have been weakened and their leaders killed or captured. Saddam is gone, which is good in and of itself to the political health of the Mid East Gaddafi is playing nice (for now, I don't trust him) and both Syria and Iran are showing cracks from within- so is N Korea for that matter, but I view that situation more with dread than hope. I really do not see any cause for saying we are "less safe" or pronouncing failure.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#22)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 03:26:11 AM EST
    I would argue that the spread of democracy and the ending of overt state supoort for terrorist groups makes the world a safer place and puts us on track to reduce this scourge
    First part is not necessarily true, i.e. spread ofdemocracy, because truly open electionsin the ME is likely to bring to power governments with a strong hatred of the US, see hezbulloh in Lebanon. Secondly Bush doesn't care about democratic elections see Chavez. The key is do they do business with the US. WRT to state sponsorship of terror, Pakistan is probably at the top of the list because of the spread of nukes and their history of supporting terrorist groups within their borders. So why are we selling them more weapons, and in fact cooperate more closely with them than the democratic government in India. Time to wake up and smell the petrol. BTW the last democratically elected government in the ME was Iran, which we overthrew in 1953 because they nationalized the oil industry

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 07:46:18 AM EST
    MB - I dont imagine it will make one iota of difference to an obviously overwrought,one handed, regime-change fan like you - what with the pom-poms,bullhorn and all - but,back in 97,in a PNAC document signed by those eminent statesmen Rumsfeld,Wolfowitz, Cheney,Abrams,et al,the statement is made that what was needed was, and I quote,"a catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor" in order to mobilize the public and provide a pretext for a radical change in foreign policy. But,of course we know your heros used absolutely every means at thier disposal to protect the 3,000 of 9/11. Of course. Clintons to blame,everyone knows that. You somebody's Little Pet Goat M.B?

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 07:54:52 AM EST
    MB - I dont imagine it will make one iota of difference to an obviously overwrought,one handed, regime-change fan like you - what with the pom-poms,bullhorn and all - but,back in 97,in a PNAC document signed by those eminent statesmen Rumsfeld,Wolfowitz, Cheney,Abrams,et al,the statement is made that what was needed was, and I quote,"a catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor" in order to mobilize the public and provide a pretext for a radical change in foreign policy. You're right Jondee. When you start heading down the path of Bush was secretly behind 9/11, not much else you say beyond that makes any difference.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 08:58:40 AM EST
    Bush was secretly behind 9/11
    not behind it, maybe not even complacent (semantics), you'll like this one, but he certainly did an "FDR" (ignoring all the relevant intel).

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#26)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 10:59:30 AM EST
    m.b., what IS your opinion of that disturbing quote from the plan for a new american century about the need for a new Pearl Harbor type attack? i'm not one who thinks there was a conspiracy, but i nonetheless find this quote beyond disturbing. not because it might suggests a foreknowledge of 9/11, but that it evidences the utter and complete lack of imagination and creativity on the part of the neocons now in power, bush among them. this is america, my friend. and if the people who run it can see progress only through violence, if they have absolutely no idea how to model and sell freedom sans war, if they really cannot come up with the act necessary for the world stage, then what has freedom done for their minds but rot them out? the gigantic, awful USSR didn't need our bombings to fall apart. it happened from within. same with so many other of those communist countries the right insisted would never give up communism without being defeated in war. so the right was ENTIRELY wrong about that whole thing. has never come clean about it, and now i'm supposed to trust the next version of these halfwits and profiteers sending more of the world into the kind of chaos we KNOW FROM HISTORY DOES NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN!! that it is better if it doesn't. but why learn from history, we have new markets to create. if real democracy and freedom happen as a result, we'll take it. until they take freedom a little too far.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 11:34:03 AM EST
    the gigantic, awful USSR didn't need our bombings to fall apart. it They needed the threat of our bombings to fall apart. But to take the anology further, I see one epsiode of bombing (in Iraq) as potentially having a similar ripple effect on the enitre "Arab Block", as our threat of bombing did on the Soivet block. A lot of dominos may be in the process of falling currently. As for the quote, I give it no credence. To think our government had anything to do with (even in an inactive way) 9/11 is absurd. There's a world out there of quotes to misapply if one tries hard enough. My 4th of the day...that went fast.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#28)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 11:49:50 AM EST
    we vastly overstated the real power of the ussr, from its economy to its military. or the military-industrial complex did, and they started doing so before eisenhower could warn us about them in his farewell address. what really brought down the soviet union was what brings down all "closed" societies -- blue jeans and rock 'n roll. the beatles getting behind the iron curtain, quite late too, had a major impact on the culture. and let's remember, this was a culture of citizens who did NOT resort to all-out bloodshed in that power transition. if anything, the imagination-vacuum of the cold war only prolonged things. but think about america in the 1950s. we were too busy keeping our own gulag-dwellers from finally rising up in the civil rights movement, it was difficult to win the moral war abroad when it's just getting started at home. yap, yap. my point was we never had to go to war, because we knew it would result in catastrophe. but we accept small catastrophes for smaller nations when it suits our purposes. even when history teaches us that when war is avoided better things happen, and more quickly. second, come on, i didn't ask you if you thought the pearl harbor quote was real. it IS real, i'm asking your opinion of the quote on a philosophical level. what do you think of minds that really think that is the BEST AND MOST EFFICIENT way to spread democracy? i ask, because many of those minds are crafting war and foreign policy today for us. and let me say it again: i'm not asking to support some conspiracy theory about the u.s. being "behind" 9/11. okay? don't believe it. and i made that clear last time. i asked about the "pearl harbor-like event" quote for reasons of genuine curiosity and communication.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#29)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 11:52:08 AM EST
    oops, last was to M.B.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 12:00:19 PM EST
    Man o man... there is so much to comment on here that I don't know where to start. Dadler.... btw, has anyone ever read a thing written solely by g.w. bush? i mean, that he and he alone has written? even a friggin pragraph? What does that have to do with anything? No president writes their own speeches. They might tweek them.... but never write them. Find something legitament to complain about. Jondee.... Not much of a damn thing happened before 9/11 either. Not sure what remote island you've been on ...but tons of stuff happened before 9/11. It has been adressed in other posts so I won't go into it again. The bombing of the WTC was intended to knock them down... they failed & went back to the drawing board (on Clinton's watch) And,unlike the situation before 9/11, the majority of the rest of world loves us now Again...not sure where you were...but much of the rest of the world has disliked us for a long time. Claxton... As bas as 9/11 was, I still regard what Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols did in Oklahoma City as far, far worse. Yes and Tim Mc 'hated' the government and thought they should be stopped. Sound familiar? soccerdad...there is no war on terror. ...This is clearly a war for oil. There is indeed a war on terror (WWIII) and the sooner the rest of the American people get on board, the sooner it will be over. I find it absolutely freakin amazing that you guys on the left continue to yell about this war being about oil and it's you're fault our hands are tied in trying to find other alternatives... like drilling in Alaska or off the coast of Cal..etc..etc. As with most things... you are NEVER happy no matter what the outcome! Che'... We make the "terrists" happy too cause they can kill americans without necessarily coming here. And that's a good thing. Let's fight them on the streets of Baghdad (were we have soldiers equipped to do so) rather than on the streets of Chicago

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#31)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 12:25:50 PM EST
    There is indeed a war on terror (WWIII)
    If you're going to spout neocon crap at least get the propaganda right. ITS WWIV, WWIII was the cold war against the Russians.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 12:52:26 PM EST
    soccerdad... LOL...well you really can't have a WW without shots being fired.... can you? The 'general' perception is that the cold war (between the USA & USSR) was NOT a WW. (two countries hardly involves the rest of the world) Hence the term 'cold' war. BTW..it isn't neocon crap...it's my crap.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#33)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 01:06:41 PM EST
    see this
    BTW..it isn't neocon crap...it's my crap.
    more's the pity

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#34)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 01:11:18 PM EST
    BB, No politician writes their own speeches, huh? Nothing like an extremist to put his foot in his mouth. Clinton and Gore both have written, and continue to write, many of their public addresses. Or did it slip your mind, among things other than his dick, that Clinton was A RHODES SCHOLAR! And if writing isn't important for the president's position, if genuine intellectual ability isn't, then why on earth would you care about literacy at all? Are you mad? The ability to critically put one's thoughts onto paper, the ability to think and express, AND SHOW YOUR WORK, is what we require of college kids. Are you really saying this SHOULDN'T be required of the leader of the "free world"? What on earth are you advocating? Stupidity? The irrelevance of critical thinking skills? Amazing.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 01:12:06 PM EST
    "Posted by dadler:"we're getting what we elected." NOPE. Haven't had a legal election in FIVE YEARS. Forget one feeding tube, 28 states' worth of voters have had their right to recount removed. We have signed affidavits from Ohio election officials that the election was stolen. Justice Dept? Sorry, they don't do felonies any more. Invading a disarmed country is a major warcrime. Proceeding to commit genocide as USPNAC have is just more racism of the sort that thinks that 'war' is the right of profiteers in the 21st century, just like in the 14th.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 01:24:15 PM EST
    "It was also interesting to note that Think Progress did notuse the throughly discredited Lancet study numbers of 100,000 dead that everyone seems to use here." Saying it doesn't make it so, unlike SCIENCE, MB. The Johns Hopkins study was peer reviewed, and it was done just the same as they have done other similar studies in the past. There has been NO discrediting, except by newspapers (who refuse to publish the facts) and rightwing blogs. The Rape of Fallujah in November was a major war crime NOT included in the JH study. Refugees from this INNOCENT city say that the US military used high-pressure water hoses to wash down the streets after the bombing. So what chemical weapons were they using? Using 'thermobaric bombs' on innocent people is a Vietnam policy LONG discredited, and indeed, illegal. Funny how you don't think all people have human rights. Not funny how you try to justify genocide.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#37)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 01:41:52 PM EST
    paul in l.a., i'm with you, bro. i should've put elected in quotes. so i will. we're getting what we "elected". ahem.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 01:53:12 PM EST
    Paul in LA: You need to read up a little on your own. Thermobaric bombs were first tested in 2001. Clearly after the Vietnam war.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 01:59:39 PM EST
    Paulie, why don't you and Dadler "elect" to get a room. Invite Soccerdad and make it a threesome.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#40)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 02:11:49 PM EST
    hey noname - have anything of substance or just the usual wingnut diarrhea

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 02:18:10 PM EST
    soccerdad.... just because this putz Norman Podhoretz (whoever the hell he is)says he thinks it's so...doesn't make it so. Nobody else has ever refered to the cold war as WWIII. Two countries one upping each other in the weapons/space race does not a WWIII make! Get a clue will ya?

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 02:24:05 PM EST
    Dadler... No politician writes their own speeches, huh? Ok dude. You are splitting hairs now. I'm sure both the gentlemen you refer to had a hand in writing their own stuff, but I guarantee they had help. They have (pay) a big staff to do just that. BTW... I don't judge my politicians (prez or whatever) on how good a speach they write (or read for that matter). I judge them on their actions. But, you go ahead and vote for the guy that writes the best speaches!

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 02:28:03 PM EST
    Paul (move out of LA & put the crack pipe down) Forget one feeding tube, 28 states' worth of voters have had their right to recount removed. LOL... give that old tired arguement up will ya?

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#44)
    by soccerdad on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 03:18:58 PM EST
    B.B. - your immense store of ignorance is showing

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 03:32:57 PM EST
    So many nonresponsive ad hominems...so little time. Compare and contrast: "Thermobaric bombs were first tested in 2001. Clearly after the Vietnam war." ""Using 'thermobaric bombs' on innocent people is a Vietnam policy LONG discredited, and indeed, illegal."" "Paulie, why don't you and Dadler "elect" to get a room. Invite Soccerdad and make it a threesome." Hey, I got an idea. Why don't the three of us meet on a liberal blog and discuss the liberal take on the legal issues of the day? Maybe the host would even let right wingers blather, just for the free speech merit. BB: Give up that old, tired misspelling, 'kay? You winger freaks forget that your Reagan supported and armed (with chemical and biological WMD) Saddam Hussein, because that was more than your fifteen minute memory could hold. You are an entire community of inbreds with 10K RAM and chapped lips.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#46)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 05:17:34 PM EST
    Paul, It's what we call a shallow gene pool.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 06:14:19 PM EST
    What I admire about Soccerdad is not only his keen mind, flawless reasoning, and tolerance of opposing points of view, but most of all I admire his immense patience and grace, that precludes him from ever answering scurrilous attacks with more scurrility and pettiness.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#48)
    by soccerdad on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:00:38 AM EST
    Dr. Ace ascends to new heights of self-parody. Having accused 2 posters of not being here for true debate, he then unleashes an all out attack on the posters making presumptions about what they really believe and ending with insults. Ace you better get your fire extinguishers checked all those straw men you keep around could cause a heck of a fire. And of course this is from someone who presents his rantings as "facts" without any links/references. Heal thyself, people in glass houses... etc etc predictable and indeed tiresome

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:54:32 AM EST
    Soccerdad.... your immense store of ignorance is showing You refer to the war on terror as WWIV because some left wing hack writer calls it that & I'm ignorant? I tried to explain to you two times (nicely) why that isn't true and, having no constructive comeback, you go back to your favorate pastime... name calling. But I'm the ignorant one??

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 08:04:01 AM EST
    Paul in la la land... Give up that old, tired misspelling, 'kay? Oh...jeez...I'm sorry if I offend you. Is that the best you can do.... critique my spelling? I'm at work, I type fast, and I don't take the time to run a spell check. This makes me a bad person I know. You winger freaks forget that your Reagan supported and armed (with chemical and biological WMD) Saddam Hussein, How the hell did this come up in this conversation? I didn't vote for Reagan... (I was a misguided lib back then) but, No... none of us have forgotten this. So? Your boy Clinton did a few things I'm sure will come back & bite us in the ass too. (IE -like not getting Osama when offered him) If you wanna go toe to toe on 'past' party snafus.... let me know.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#51)
    by soccerdad on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 08:15:57 AM EST
    B.B.
    left wing hack writer
    ROTFLMAO You just called Norman Podhoretz a left wing hack writer!!! God thats funny. BB let me give you some advice when you are in over your head stop digging. Now you look like a complete baffoon. You also made the assumption that since I referenced him he must be left winger. So lets see, no basic knowledge of who is who, not enough intellectual curiosity to get off your a** and find out who is who after your error was pointed out to you, and just tons of unfounded assumptions. And we should take your post seriously why?

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#52)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:22:59 AM EST
    b.b., i may be splitting hairs, but your are full of sh*t. i gave you two examples, of many, who wrote many of their own speeches. do you honestly think bush, who has NO intellectual ability, and clinton, a rhodes scholar, had no difference in their ability to craft a piece of written rhetoric? get a friggin' clue. yes, sometimes, they had help, but often they wrote speeches themselves. and you know why? BECAUSE THEY CARED ENOUGH ABOUT THEIR FREEDOM TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES AND LEARN TO ACTUALLY WRITE!! g.w. bush has a profoundly limited intellect, and if you think that limit is GOOD for our country, then we have a gulf of opinion between us as wide as the grand canyon.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#53)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:26:35 AM EST
    b.b., btw, saying i would vote for someone merely because they write a good speech, well, i'd like to think you've got more game than that. if you don't want to get into a debate that requires real though and self-criticism, then just say it's too difficult for you. it's okay.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 04:21:01 PM EST
    BB - Podhoretz is one of YOUR guys. You guys are getting to the point where if you hear anything semi-contradictory from anyone semi-articulate you assume its a "left winger" - you listen to alot of talk radio?

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 04:24:36 PM EST
    M.B - The signatories of that PNAC statement expressed their sense of the need for a catalyzing event such as they described. How do you strongly sense the the need for something without desiring it? Answer please.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 04:31:06 PM EST
    Btw - You say "our government had nothing to do with it" well guess what pal, the buck stops here. But then,you seem to be VERY open to the idea that Clinton had something to do with it.

    Re: Bush's Failed War on Terror (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:43:06 PM EST
    "Whoever the hell he is" Dubya thanks his lucky stars every day for his base.

    Bush's Failed War on Terror | 56 comments (56 topical)