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Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:41:43 AM EST
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A three-judge panel of the 11th Circuit has refusedto order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. Her parents say they will now go to the Supreme Court.

An emergency filing to the high court would go first to Justice Anthony Kennedy, a Reagan appointee who has staked a moderate position on social issues. Kennedy would have the option to act on the petition alone, although on previous emergency requests involving Schiavo he has referred the matter to the full nine-member court.

The full decision is here. (pdf)

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    Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo | 33 comments (33 topical)
    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 08:39:46 AM EST
    The main stream media and their sister scum the cable news networks are pretending there are not answers to the questions being raised. The most irresponsible and the husband should sue Fox was having a nurse on who said he had been injecting her with insulin (ala Klaus Von Bulow) and she claims to have reported it to the police --a very easy fact to check --but no fact checking from Fox and then they reported on the interview as if it were a news story. There are a very clear set of facts and to pretend they do not exist is tabloid journalism at it's worst. And the MSGOP interview with the Dr who claims the patient can mouth words-well if that were true we would know what she wants. The reporting has been disgusting and not a word on NBC about the Delay remarks where he thanks god for Schaivo's predictment becasue it gives him an issue and takes the focus off his ethical issues. only CBS had the guts to run as a straight news story CNN traiklibng one day later pretended it was something that could be spun. And now Congtressmen Welden asked Bush to send in the national guard and kidnap the patient

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 08:59:28 AM EST
    Talkleft, What do you think the Supreme Court will do? Hear the case? Not? Just wondered what your opinion is. Thans in advance.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:07:17 AM EST
    Terri Schiavo Ebay item. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7310417280&category=554&sspagename=rvi:1:1v_home

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:09:35 AM EST
    Most people have a very sanitized perception of the "end of life" experience thanks to the media and the lack of education available on the topic. Let's face it. Unless you are a veteran nurse (I am) or caregiver with years of experience working with terminal patients, you don't have a clue what it's really like to be on the edge of death or in a vegetative state. Ordinary people have no idea what it really means to be dying, incapacitated, terminal. Sure, if you are a visitor to the hospital, the nurses make everything look pretty for you during visiting hours. But that is NOT reality. Anyone that wants to keep Terri Schiavo in this state should immediately go to work in a nursing home as a nurse and stay there for a few years before even considering making comments about something they know nothing about. Trust me. The experience will change you for life. What you don't see when you are watching news footage of someone like Terri Schiavo is that she cannot communicate her needs, and she cannot communicate her emotions (rage, frustration, anger, depression) about that fact that her basic needs are not being met. Imagine for a moment being in Terri Schiavo situation and in any of these scenarios: 1) you could not convey to your caregiver that you are experiencing severe pain and this went on for years with you suffering and not receiving pain relief because you could not communicate your pain 2) you had miserable cramps in your legs and you couldn't tell anyone so you were left with the torturous cramping 3) your feet were freezing cold and you were helpless because no one knew to cover you up. Patients like Terri Schiavo are stiff with contractions (arms and legs fold up and become stiff as a board). It is VERY painful when caregivers have to move their limbs even to clean them up. We have the technology now to keep people alive even though their bodies have started to decay (advanced bedsores) and many of their automatic body functions have failed (ability to swallow, breath, etc.). I am astounded at the propaganda that has been spread by the media. They only tell certain aspects of the story. But, not the whole picture. In the Terri Schiavo case, since she cannot communicate, she suffers every day in every way imaginable. To allow someone to suffer like that against her wishes, is inhumane - it's abuse, and selfish of the parents. The companies that benefit from keeping decaying bodies alive are richly rewarded by Medicare and Medical (reimbursement). In my opinion, this is medical Auschwitz. I have worked with these patients for over 20 years. All efforts need to be made for those that cannot communicate their suffering, and that are decaying. When you work in medicine, you quickly learn that Western medicine is all about big profits. It's also a very big part of our Nation's gross national product. There is a lot of healthcare and pharmaceutical special interest money powering this issue. I am pro-life. Still, there is a point where we need to get out of God's way and let Him take his children home where they will be at peace. Not turn them into poster children for some politicians special interests. My mission when interacting with patients and families is to turn on the light of truth about the importance of becoming empowered with knowledge about staying well, getting second opinions, seeking alternatives whenever possible before going under the knife or taking symptom-oriented medical treatments and for God's sake, find and fill out an Advanced Healthcare Directive. It's a one-page for that lets people know your wishes should you not be able to express them yourself. You can google on Advanced Healthcare Directive and find a free form to download. Best Wishes But that's another topic for another day.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:11:45 AM EST
    http://terrischiavomadeuthink.blog-city.com

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#6)
    by John Mann on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:15:52 AM EST
    Michael Shiavo mentioned the other night in an interview that there are no happy endings in this case... except perhaps for Terri. I can't even imagine what it must be like for her to be trapped in that state. I hope she is truly not aware of what's happened to her. I understand her parents' desperate need to fight for keeping her alive. My sister died a few years ago, and my Mom has never been the same. It's not normal to lose a child... children are supposed to bury their parents - not the other way around. It's not likely her parents will ever "get over" Terri's death, especially since its coming has been so drawn out, but hopefully once it's over they'll be able to find a little peace.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:19:45 AM EST
    Hey Straight Up Try facts none of what you say applies to her but of course you are willing to be a liar you have no evidence of the charges you make and there is ample evidence you are lying you have no personal experience with this patient making you a very irresponsible member of the medical community -no wonder there s so much malpractice insurance required

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:28:26 AM EST
    NEW INFO:::::: Jut announced. Schindlers will go back to the Appellate court in Atlanta for a review by all of the 11 judges before going t othe Supreme Court. Can anyone tell me what that means? What are the chances there vs the Supreme Court? Thanks

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:29:59 AM EST
    Goddamned trolls are everywhere, except volunteering to free Iraq and volunteering to pay for Terri's infinite treatment. I'm sure they know the Medicaid cuts and backruptcy law changes put in place by their heroes would have prevented her from living even this long. Oh, if and not, the law Bush signed in Texas would have surely been invoked by the hospital to let her die. (I wonder if Frist owns a piece of that hospital?)

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:38:05 AM EST
    Jut announced. Schindlers will go back to the Appellate court in Atlanta for a review by all of the 11 judges before going t othe Supreme Court. Can anyone tell me what that means? What are the chances there vs the Supreme Court? Thanks
    What it means is that the Shindlers want to take every possible chance to have someone order the tube reinserted; my guess is that the chances in either forum are pretty low.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:51:10 AM EST
    The court did not deny relief to Terry Schiavo -- it denied relief to her parents and siblings. According to the courts Terry Schiavo would have wanted her feeding tube removed if she were in such a position. They have ruled consistently in Michael Schiavo's favor on this fact. That means that replacing the feeding tube would have been denying Terry Schiavo relief.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:07:02 AM EST
    Slight quibble over the title: it really should read "Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terry Schiavo's Parents" Ms. Schiavo's own relief would be do die as the courts have found was her wish.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:21:50 AM EST
    Let's hope the Supreme Court will again refuse to hear the case. The 11thcc ruling spells everything out clearly and it's nice to read unbiased legal work for a change... This is truly a tragic situation and more tragic is the political propaganda around it. Positive thoughts to all concerned, on both sides of the Schiavo family.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:39:56 AM EST
    Straitup I was profoundly impressed with what you expressed. I am a Vietnam Vet and a victim of Agent Orange. I recently suffered a Heart Attack and while being treated for it I then suffered a Stroke! I can tell you being Paralized is like having you siamese twin die. I lay in bed spending hours trying to make my toes move to no avail. little things like itching turn into sheer torture. I slowly regained some of old self. I cannot conceive of a loving God who would no want Terry with her in heaven. Please ignore that Moron troll his a Load alright a load of scum.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:54:36 AM EST
    This second request to the 11th circuit for a full en banc hearing (where all members of the appellate court hear a case) likely won't happen. Since two separate federal court's have now looked at the Parent's case and found nothing of merit it is unlikely that all the members of the 11th circuit ct. of appeals would. They would have the benefit of the previous two rulings which are written quite well and explain the reason why the plaintiffs cannot hope to prevail. I can't imagine the Sup Ct stepping in. Like I said yesterday, 11th cir. affirms district ct, (en banc hearing denied- which I didnt include but which has less chance of winning than the original 3 judge panel) then the Sup Ct. muffs around a bit, in the meantime Terry dies, and all the GOP'ers claim they did everything "under god" to save her but it just wasn't enough. They then hump their bible until the mid term election to try to win more seats, especially in Florida where conveniently seats can be won, and then people like me lose all interest in government and consider one of the caribbean islands as a warm, somewhat exotic place to live. Rather simple really. ~peace~

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:05:58 AM EST
    What A Load: that was uncalled for, mean spirited, and trollish quite acutally. StraightUp: i appreciated you sharing your personal experience and what your eyes have seen, as mine have not, and i hope i speak for many others here.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:17:32 AM EST
    Trollish and meanspirited is what is being done to the husband of this woman and by epople like straight up who try to cloud this issue with irrelevant stories. Nothing ins straight ups post is true about Mrs. Schaivo and therefore is not relevant in this discussion

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 12:00:49 PM EST
    Straightup- i wish you or someone in the field with your insight and experience would address the misguided masses out there who think they are supporting this poor woman and in fact they would rather doom her to suffering. All so the parents will not have to face her death...granted a difficult thing to do. This is about Terri, not her family. So many people act like this is a woman who was born this way and therefore couldn't have made a choice to die. She was a fully functioning person and like the majority of us would not want to linger , stripped of all control and dignity. Much more likely that she would have discussed this with her husband rather than parents. The Schindlers, may God forgive them and those who are protesting are not doing this for Terri.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 12:03:23 PM EST
    What A Load i read the comments again; to be sure i wasn't being trollish and mean spirited. i understood the comments to be about the actual conditions the patients endures when the family leaves, the lack of attention given to patients in this condition, the simple comforts their unable to request, the medical industry in u.s. being about profits, the need for a medical directive. didn't see a twisting of the situation favoring right or left. just a personal perspective. but of course you could be right, vigilant skepticism, it permeates my approach, so i digress.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 12:23:13 PM EST
    Does the Schiavo tragedy show that the conservative movement is approaching a meltdown? Maybe not, but the yawning chasm between economic and social conservatives, dormant for two presidential elections is reemerging and with it, a serious threat to the Republicans' majority status. For more, see: "Achilles' Heels"

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#21)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 12:23:28 PM EST
    The 11th CCOA has refused to hear the case. As expected, Jeb Bush has found another hack neurologist, who "has not personaly examined the patient", to say she may have low level cognition. Jeb also told the pro lifers that "your prayers are being answered". Operation rescue is sending CHILDREN to protest and be arrested in a demonstration.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 12:37:18 PM EST
    I just saw a pic of what looks like a 12 yr. old kid being arrested for trying to break in to this poor woman's hospital room with a glass of water. Who would put their kid up to this? Do the jesus freaks have no sense of decency? What a freakin' circus.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#23)
    by cp on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    what a load, i suggest you go back and re-read straightup's comments, clearly you need to have your glasses on this time. kdog, no, they have none whatever. if you'll recall, operation rescue is a randall terry organization. the same randall terry who can't be bothered to pay child support to his ex-wife, but instead solicits funds to buy his very own $432,000 house, with his new, much younger wife. the guy is morally bankrupt and ethically vacuous. what would you expect from his followers? considering the fact that the SC has so far refused to even hear the schindler's case, ever, why should now be any different? i don't think it will.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:12:25 PM EST
    what part of "...she is unable to swallow..." do they not understand. they act as if this woman could eat and drink on her own and she's being denied sustenance. the really sad part for the people attempting to bring her food/water, is they believe this. blind faith, not very productive for the individual, catastrophic for society.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:23:42 PM EST
    In addition to the great tragedy of Terry Schiavo's suffering--and the suffering of her family, we've got a good look at how the ugliness of the right wing works. A special law for one individual while they fight their illegal and immoral wars, attempt to destroy Social Security, foul the air and water, steal elections, attack reproductive rights and women, attack the poor with cuts in programs like Medicaid, etc. Here, the right wing can be seen in the clear light of day, cynically manipulating a family's grief and tragedy for their own mean spirited ends.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:24:35 PM EST
    CP I suggest you re read straight up's post which contains the following: "What you don't see when you are watching news footage of someone like Terri Schiavo is that she cannot communicate her needs, and she cannot communicate her emotions (rage, frustration, anger, depression) about that fact that her basic needs are not being met. Imagine for a moment being in Terri Schiavo situation and in any of these scenarios: 1) you could not convey to your caregiver that you are experiencing severe pain and this went on for years with you suffering and not receiving pain relief because you could not communicate your pain 2) you had miserable cramps in your legs and you couldn't tell anyone so you were left with the torturous cramping 3) your feet were freezing cold and you were helpless because no one knew to cover you up. Patients like Terri Schiavo are stiff with contractions (arms and legs fold up and become stiff as a board). It is VERY painful when caregivers have to move their limbs even to clean them up." All of the medical personal who have seen Mrs. Schaivo say she does not feel pain or have emotions. The playing loose with facts and misrepresenting the status of this woman is part of the problem. Straight up has never seen this patient yet is quite willing to say what she feels or does not.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:42:29 PM EST
    A small math problem: The Schindlers lost their petition for an en banc rehearing by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals by a vote of 10 to 2. They had previously lost their appeal by a 2 to 1 vote by a three-judge panel. If the two dissenters had been on the three-judge panel (instead of only one of them), the Schindlers would have won the first round by a vote of 2 to 1. What were the chances that a panel of three judges chosen randomly from the full bench of twelve would contain the two dissenters? Well, there are 220 ways to pick a subset of three judges from a group of 12. If you take the two dissenters, there are ten judges left over with which to round out the panel, so there are only ten ways to make up a panel containing both dissenters. In other words, the Schindlers had only a 10 in 220 chance (about 4.5%) of getting lucky with the 11th Circuit Court. Now you know how close we came to another round of this ongoing circus.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#28)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:48:44 PM EST
    Go ahead twits. Feed her. She'll aspirate and be dead in a week. There's a joke inside the medical community: Q. What are the three most overrated things? A. 1. Home cooking 2. Extramarital sex 3. The Mayo Clinic

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:52:22 PM EST
    Nice math TonyB, of course the odds should have favored them since they have god on their side;-)

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#30)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 02:05:33 PM EST
    What a load, What Straightup and lay folks don't understand is that, in vegetative states, a grimace during movement is a very common reflexive movement that does not correlate with any cortical activity on EEG or PET. The fake smile on her face that everyone thinks is communication is facial muscle contracture. It's the only "expression" she has. For those of you who think our medical technology is lacking, I give you Terry Schiavo. I'm amazed that they kept her alive this long. Whoever was in charge of supervising her care all these years certainly did a great job. But If she's really brain dead, why would we fight nature to keep a person alive like that? If she has cognition, why would we fight nature to keep a person alive like that? If there is a god I hope that god puts Randall Terry in a body like that with full faculties for his crimes against our culture.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#31)
    by Kitt on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 02:23:12 PM EST
    Che - Don't even get me started on that little f*c Randall Terry.... Just saw this on Reuters "A U.S. appeals court on Wednesday denied a request for a full bench hearing on a bid by the parents of brain-damaged Florida woman Terri Schiavo to have her feeding tube restored, a court official said. The judges of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta voted 10 to 2 NOT to grant a full hearing, the official said. My compassion for her parents is about nonexistent given this grandstanding charade of theirs. I'm beginning to doubt the sincerity of their concern for their daughter. To me, this isn't about love; this is about control, resentment, & spite.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 04:37:49 PM EST
    There is a positive side for Democrats especially on the state level --they should pass legislation requiring doctors office and hospital admitting forms include a form for health care directives Wisconsin has legislation that allows medical personal to ignore a written living will. Democrats should pass legislation which makes it a felony to ignore the instructions of someone's health care directive.

    Re: Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:42:26 PM EST
    Che - "If she has cognition, why would we fight nature to keep a person alive like that?" Because they want to live? You are like your name sake.

    Appeals Court Denies Relief for Terri Schiavo | 33 comments (33 topical)