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Terri Schiavo Watch

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 07:37:21 PM EST
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It appears that Terri Schiavo's life is winding down quickly. Her father says she only has hours left to live. The court appeals are still alive, but winding down as well.

And the dirt continues to fly. Tonight on Greta's On the Record, a former caretaker for Terri named Trudy said she knew Michael Schiavo very well, she was his "confidente" while she worked at the facility caring for Terri. She was adamant that Michael told her several times he and Terri never discussed what to do in this kind of situation, that she had never expressed an opinion, and that he used to ask her (Trudy) all the time, "What should I do."

A lawyer on Greta's show said there was a telephone hearing today because the state and federal courts were closed. I had a federal court hearing today, so I don't think that's true.

And legal analyst Andrew Cohen explains in the LA Times why Terri's parents didn't have a case.

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    Terri Schiavo Watch | 58 comments (58 topical)
    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 07:59:42 PM EST
    There was a telephone hearing in Judge Greer's court again ..Gibbs got his associate Wendell to file a false statement saying she heard Mrs. Schiavo try to ssy I want to live.... As for Greta.Christopher Hitchens called Joe Scarborough a megaphone for fraud and certainly Greta has played that role too. If te alleged caretaker knew all this intimate stuff about what Mr. Schaivo really said why didn't she tesitfy earlier this week or in one of the other hearings. Or can we expect this claim in tomorrow's appeal? A man has been arrested for offering to pay 25ok to have Mr. Schiavo killed. They should also arrest Pat Buchanan, Pat Robertson, Randell Terry for calling Michael Schiavo a murderer and saying he would be responsible for her death The media particularly the cable scum have not bothered to check facts or the statements of people who claim to have inside information. The people outside the hospice are not there to support Terri they are there to deny people the right to die with dignity. To say she is suffering is to insult the hospice and all hospice programs. The right will tell any lie to gain advantage and this is just another example

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#2)
    by cp on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:12:55 PM EST
    that's kind of what i was wondering. if this woman is so credible a witness, why wasn't she called by the parents? possibly, because, um, well..........she isn't. ironic how some of those "culture of life" people want to kill mr. schaivo. i doubt they'd get it though.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#3)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:23:45 PM EST
    They should also arrest Pat Buchanan, Pat Robertson, Randell Terry for calling Michael Schiavo a murderer and saying he would be responsible for her death
    Sorry to disagree here What A Load, but I don't think Bucky, Robbie, or Randall Flagg have done anything illegal. A civil libel suit might be more appropriate on the former point. I find the latter point an interesting sentiment coming from people who believe their God is "calling them home". That choice of phrase would lead me to believe that God is responsible for what happened to them (i.e. dying). I hadn't heard about anybody attempting to hire a hit on M. Schiavo, but with all the filth being flung I'm not surprised. It's almost as predictable as the attempt by some pundits to paint this as a left-right issue.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#4)
    by Kitt on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:24:37 PM EST
    I'm so sick of this... We were somewhere tonight that was heavy with the GOP party faithful - almost to a person, they were disgusted with the events of this past week; one person 'felt bad' for the parents. We were really surprised. One of the talking points - the sludge brought out against Michael Schiavo, slinging it left and right. The biggest thing was involvement of the president and Congress however. One thing I noted the other day was an interview with someone tounted as a nurse who was on Fox who could hardly formulate a sentence, complaining about Michael Schiavo. She's a CNA, which is not 'a nurse.' Like the neurologist - someone said he was up for the Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine. There's this preying on the ignorance of the American public because how well known is it that 'the masses' will just accept whatever. How many people know that the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel Prize for Medicine are two separate categories? It's the outright lies and misrepresentations.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#5)
    by Kitt on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:27:03 PM EST
    Adept - Go to 'Americablog' - there's a link there about an arrest for solitication...hiring to kill Michael Schiavo & Judge Greer.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:29:05 PM EST
    Random thoughts... I'm reasonably impressed with Gov. Bush in this. It seems to me that he has done everything he legally (and with proper respect to the other bodies of government) can to get things the way he wants them, but no more than that. I had the same impression of him during the 2000 election. He does at least respect the system of government that we have (unlike a number of other "conservatives"). At least they can't talk about liberal activist judges, given the number of conservative judges involved in these decisions. They'll only be able to complain about activist judges from now on. Maybe they'll finally admit that what they really want is to do away with an independent judiciary - that they don't really believe in a truly democratic form of government. Finally, the lack of interest in the facts by the media has bothered me for a while, and it's been really brought out by this. It's very troubling that journalists think that it's okay to let an interviewee simply lie without calling them on it. They need to realize that the truth isn't fair and balanced. It doesn't have two sides or multiple angles. It's just what's supported by verifiable facts. If that conflicts with someone's viewpoint then that person is simply wrong. Somehow I developed this idea that journalists were supposed to be conduits for the truth and not conduits for lies and propaganda.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#7)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:41:17 PM EST
    Thanks for the link, Kitt. Why do I suddenly feel like David Hasselhoff?. Eeeewww. Must.go.bathe.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:57:47 PM EST
    Adept the FBI arrested some guy in NC for posting a 250k contract on Michael Schiavo and another 50k for a judge. I think Robertson et al should be arrested for inciting this kind of action (Iknow probably not but it feels good to say it.) Michael Schiavo goes everywhere under guard these days because of all the threats on his life from the people of the cult of life

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:58:06 PM EST
    I'm wondering if Michael Schiavo can get a bulk rate from some enterprising attorney for libel cases, because it seems to me like he probably has grounds for a whole bunch of them.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:04:54 PM EST
    Maybe Lin Wood is reading. He did a great job for John and Patsy Ramsey, Richard Jewell and Kobe's accuser. He's representing Gary Condit now, in his suit against Dominick Dunne.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:15:24 PM EST
    Allen, not sure I agree with your impression of ol' Jeb. Apparently he sent a team of storm troopers to Pinellas Park to forcibly extricate Terri Schiavo and take her to a hospital. It was only after local police said they were prepared to shoot back in order to enforce the judge's order that the storm troopers backed down.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:23:31 PM EST
    I wonder what M. Schiavo's kids are going through right now. In related news it is being reported by NewsMax that Judge Greer accepted money from Schiavo's Attorney's law firm. "As if the circumstances surrounding Terri Schiavo could not get any more suspicious, the Center for Reclaiming America has uncovered evidence that Pinellas-Pasco County Circuit Judge George W. Greer accepted a campaign contribution from the law firm of Michael Schiavo’s attorney only one day after "Terri’s Law” was declared unconstitutional by a Pinellas county court."

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:37:39 PM EST
    Brown, you do realize that NewsMax has a long history of fabricating things don't you? Trusting them for news would be like trusting Hannibal Lecter to perform your appendectomy.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:01:06 PM EST
    Michael, I read the article ... wow! I joked about this circumstance but no matter my sense of the absurd or outrage, these folks always surprise me. BTW, thanks for the senate explanation, but to me 'rules' shouldn't ignore the constitution.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:07:47 PM EST
    I wish it were likely that Terri Schiavo's death will finally bring an end to this unseemly circus, but the controversy is going to outlast her. Lots of creepy things are crawling out of the woodwork and there's plenty of pandering media willing to treat liars and fantasists as if they were credible witnesses. The "Nobel-prize-nominated" physician is just a doctor with a quack remedy. The "nurses" who are now attacking Michael Schiavo were not even persuasive enough for the Schindlers to take seriously until these last desperate hours, when anything goes. And we get to hear the fulminations of Randall Terry, the paragon of moral rectitude who was censured by his church fellows for immorality. If you don't educate yourself, you could get fooled by these oh-so-sincere charlatans. Fortunately, it does appear that most people see through the political posturing that has been going on and are recoiling against it. May their numbers be sufficient to damp down the crazy fringe that wants to cry havoc and run to the barricades. And may the Schindlers come back to their senses once their daughter has been freed from her living death.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:12:13 PM EST
    If Gov. Bush had actually sent a team of "storm troopers" there would have been a gun battle. It still just looks to me like Gov. Bush pushed his power to the limit, but not beyond. I'll concede he walked right to the very edge. Still, there's been nothing criminal, no "constitutional crisis", no overturning of the courts by force, just a failed attempt to take advantage of a possible legal loophole.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:19:22 PM EST
    This was a huge risk for the Republicans and a monumental mistake. Polls show that even 64% of evangelical christians think this intervention was a bad idea! Bush's approval drops an amazing 7 points to his all time low of 45%. People are pissed. This whole circus act will only benefi the Democrats, and it should

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:23:12 PM EST
    Ain't it something that a husband's rights now extend to having his wife publicly murdered? And why's the death cult object to someone else taking their annihilationist dogma to it's logical conclusion and targeting the perps?

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#20)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:42:47 PM EST
    I am as much a partisan here in my occasional posts as anyone. I wont object to the things I have read above. I just want to say, I am distraught at the plight of Terri Schiavo. I beg the left to understand, that this isnt a concocted pro life appeal, but a genuine sentiment on behalf of Terri Schiavo. Do I know if it is the right thing to support? NO, but my heart and my soul tells me that the defenseless people are the ones that warrant our most vigorous defense. There is something about a Court saying that a woman shouldnt have a breathing tube strikes me as sick. I hope I dont have to see a case like this, again.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 11:00:53 PM EST
    If this isn't a concocted pro-life appeal then why have pro-life organizations contributed at least two million dollars in legal services to the Schindlers, whereas Michael, to defend what he believes are his wife's interests has only the money set aside for her care to pay his legal fees? If genuine concern for someone in Terri's situation is what has motivated the very vocal minority, then how come we don't hear a peep out of them in regards to the two similar cases in Texas, where the only difference is that the patients are not white and can't pay--and where the families are in complete agreement that life support should be sustained, and the party seeking to remove life support is the hospital's bean counters?

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 11:05:32 PM EST
    Anyone who can call what is happening to Terri Schiavo murder either doesn't have any idea what's really going on or is simply lying. As far as seeing something like this again - it goes on regularly in the U.S. and elsewhere. It's just that most of the time no one bothers to look. And that's the fundamental hypocrisy - let's save Terri but completely ignore all the other people that these kind of things have and will happen to. One thing I've heard that I really don't understand - it's okay to take someone off of a ventilator but wrong to remove a feeding tube. At least thats what some of the "pro-life" people have said. How is it that suffocating someone is acceptable but starving someone is not? And since when is keeping someone alive by artificial means God's will?

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 11:46:24 PM EST
    " I am distraught at the plight of Terri Schiavo." So am I. Thank God it appears that it will soon be over for good. I am also distraught at the plight of my country. Unfortunately, the hypocritical political operatives masquerading as the most pious of Christians have no intention of stopping until they have destroyed the United States and replaced it with a fascist theocracy.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 05:39:54 AM EST
    If this episode hasn't exposed ALL cable news for the cesspool it is I don't know what will. I used to think CNN had a little more integrity than the rest but no more. Look at the unsubstantited garbage they put out for news in this case? ANd they crucified Dan Rather??? Unfortunately, cable news has turned so many of us into news addicts that to give it up would be hard. I'm going to try to stick with real news, good old fashioned networks at 6 and 10, and draw my own conclusions. FOX, CNN MSNBC will put any nut willing to say anything on TV. Something should be done about it.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 06:00:05 AM EST
    The parade of former caregivers and friends --who someohow never brought this information forward until they were going to be in fake news is just amazing --if any of it was true they should all be sued for not coming forward and for hiding information that would have led to some recovery for Mrs. Schiavo. Especially disgusting is the former friend who now lives in Cleveland she has been on Fake News repeatedly apparently having her hair done by the same people who do RAndall Terry's. She claimed the Terri and Michael were on the verge odf divorce and that he beat her. Yet even her parents don't say that...and yet this clown was on each and every fox news show Sue them each and every liar and what about that stem cell research the one thing that might have given hope for her recovery when the event occured

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#26)
    by John Mann on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 06:06:16 AM EST
    These are indeed trying times for Governor and wannabe President Jeb Bush. If he doesn't mount an assault on the hospice where poor Mrs. Shiavo is spending her remaining days, the religious loonies will have a hard time forgetting about it in 2008. If he does send special commando forces to liberate the woman, he runs the risk of being severely chastized by the judiciary. What's a poor boy to do?

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 06:17:57 AM EST
    The real issue is that, had the right thing (in whatever form--proper medical treatment and physical therapy comes to mind) been done 15 years ago, the Schiavo story wouldn't even be "news" today. Doubt we'll ever know the real story. God Bless Terri and her family--including Michael. They ALL need our prayers this Easter.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 07:03:00 AM EST
    Adept - I don't think you can arrest a person for that person calling someone a murderer. If that was the case Bush could have at least 30% of this blog arrested. Load - Many did, and did file affidavitts. But as to your question, I guess we will have that answer when we know why the husband waited 7 years to declare that she had told him she wanted to die. As for you astonishment that the parents didn't know about abuse, that is very common. Deanna - "FOX, CNN MSNBC will put any nut willing to say anything on TV. Something should be done about it." CBS, on the other hand, requires it be but in writing. And another call for censorship. Free speech. It works for all of the Left, but no one else. Tristero - "So am I. Thank God it appears that it will soon be over for good." I know. It is just so icky when someone is being put to death. allen - Yes, it is a hateful word. And of course you can take refuge in that fact that the state insists it is legal, so it isn't murder, simply a killing. BTW - Can we assume you are for capital punihsment? And God hasn't spoken to me about his will. When he told you it wasn't his will to keep someone alive by artifical means, did he appear before you pesonally, telephone, email, letter??? Michael D - Are the bean counters members of the pro life movement? I mean really. If you can't connect them, why mention them together? I thought better of you. BTW - Terri S's bills are being paid for by medicaid, the money is gone, some (approx) $440K have been spent on attorneys. No details are available. Link As for millions, being contributed, could we have a link? It makes sense that pro life groups would be in support, just as abortion right groups would oppose, but some details should be helpful. BrownPower - "In related news it is being reported by NewsMax that Judge Greer accepted money from Schiavo's Attorney's law firm." In an interview with a friend of Judge Greer, he was asked if he knew that the husband's attorney had contributed funds to Judge Greer. The friend indicated he was not aware of this. This I saw with my own eyes. At some point in the interview someone noted that it is not unusual for attorneys to contribute money to judges they have, and will, appear in front of. Call me old fashioned, but judges should not be put in that position. It just looks bad. Jon H - Since you can just look at someone and tell that they are making things up, you can just replace the court system. Hear Ye, Hear Ye! The honorable Jon has looked at the defendent and says he is lying. Execution at high noon! Demo - Good point. But she has a feeding tube. She can breath on her own with no problem. You can't just "unplug" to kill her. So starvation is required. Kamela - You are just so expert. I do hope the Demo's hire you for advice come the next election cycle.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#29)
    by nolo on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 07:07:48 AM EST
    The New England Journal of Medicine has made an early release of two articles regarding the Terri Schiavo matter available online in .pdf format. Here are the links: "'Culture of Life' Politics at the Bedside," by G.J. Annas, J.D., MPH "Terri Schiavo -- A Tragedy Compounded," by Timothy E. Quill, M.D. Note again that both links are to .pdf files.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 07:37:05 AM EST
    PPJ the husband did not wait seven years as usual you are full of crap he did not do anything until he was convinced that nothing could be done of course you remain factless And The Ramsey family collected quite a bit of money for suing news media that improperlp portrayed them of course you wouldn't want your dead brain to be cluttered up by evidence and not the useless sputtering fo liars

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 07:38:20 AM EST
    above post mine and of course the lame and stupid continue to insult the entire hospice system

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 09:47:21 AM EST
    cp - Would you like to discuss cost containment issues by state and federal government? I would guess there are hundreds of items that could be deleted. Why do you keep on chanting the medical condition mantra to me? I have commented again and again my issue is whether or not she has a living will, and the secondary issue of the judge not following the law passed by Congress. To me, the continual assertions of her "condition" by people who agreed to remove the tube, and thus killing her, are looking for a crutch to lean on. If you believe so, fine. Others do not. Accept that fact. They have that right. Twenty odd judges? Someone is wrong here. It is my understanding that the only judge to hear the facts has been Greer. Could you provide us a list of the other 19. Surely some "moonbat" site has it. As to why the husband waited seven years, I do not know. If he believed the medical facts, then he knew within months the situation, and, if he was concerned with complying with her wishes, then I don't understand the delay. This is especially true, if, as some have stated, he stopped all attempts at rehabilitation a few months after the malpractice trial. Load - Can you provide a link showing that he did not wait 7 years? Not only I, but cp also, will learn something new. BTW - Can you make a comment with resorting to vulgar and inance personal attacks? You really should, you know, because they define you so well. nolo - Thanks for the links, but I am not interested in disputing her medical condition. It is what it is.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 10:04:30 AM EST
    It's not indifference. It's that watching her die is American voyeurism at its worst.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 10:39:38 AM EST
    as uusual pointless drivel from PPJ he did not wait seven years to say she would not want to be kept alive He waited seven to be convinced that she was actually in the state where she would want to die he never changed his position on what her wishes were --just whether she was actually in the pvs -- but perhaps that is a bit too complex for you to understand

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 11:35:21 AM EST
    Ace and "Hang-em-high" ppj - If your valuation of life didnt flucuate so drastically with the winds of political expediency and whatever this weeks talking-point is,more here would take you seriously. Maybe Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld should take out the tube; how fast would you dummy up then?

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#37)
    by Adept Havelock on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 11:43:10 AM EST
    Adept - I don't think you can arrest a person for that person calling someone a murderer. If that was the case Bush could have at least 30% of this blog arrested.
    PPJ, Once again Jim, in your haste to spew bile you missed your target. Please show me where I suggested someone should be arrested for calling someone else a murderer. You can't? What a surprise. You can probably avoid more premature spewings like this by thinking about baseball. Worked for me back when I was a teen, anyway.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 12:40:37 PM EST
    We're all flawed vessals Ace. Now, show me ONE POST of yours where youve ever expressed even the thinnest whisper of regret over massive loss of life and suffering incurred in the Iraq invasion, occupation,and fall-out. Juxtapose that with your seeming new-found righteous indignation over this Sshiavo situation."No proof".

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 04:07:37 PM EST
    jondee - Somewhere over in the archives you can find comments by me that say that I would not allow capital punish unless the evidence was absolutely undeniable. I have stated that I am against abortion but believe it is a woman's right to choose. So where do you get your claim? The Iraq war? Sorry. Different subject. Adept - Pardon me, you were quoting What a Load, which I should have noted. But hey, you'll have to admit it was a good comment.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 06:41:38 PM EST
    DA - I thought attacks on family was off limits and considered in bad taste. But, if you want a dissing contest, I'll be happy to oblige. So it is up to you.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 09:26:16 PM EST
    DA - I figure we can hack at each other all we want, but why bring family in? That is just plain bad taste.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 10:33:16 PM EST
    PPJ, I count at least 20 judges looking at this case in just the past six or seven days. And regarding the 2 million, I can't provide a link to what I didn't read--that was a number quoted by an investigative reporter interviewed on Anderson Cooper (I believe he was with the Miami Herald) who has been closely following the story and writing about it since the original court case. And he didn't seem to me to be a biased reporter--he had nothing but good things to say about the Schindlers. The interview was directly after the interview with Terri's court-appointed guardian, so maybe I can use that as a point of reference to find a transcript. I'll see if I can find it.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 11:18:53 PM EST
    I love LexisNexis. But this time it only helped me determine where the story wasn't, not where it was. Apparently MSNBC doesn't file its transcripts with LexisNexis. The program was Countdown with Keith Olbermann (transcript). THe interviewee was Glenn McGee, Director of the Institute for Bioethics, and Editor-in-Chief of the American Journal of Bioethics. And what we found is that on both sides of the aisle on this set of legal actions, there‘s been an enormous amount of money.  Some of it‘s actually been money to support lawyers but most of it has been gifts from large law firms and lobbyists to enable multitasking firms, the kind of thing we saw in the O.J. trial, on behalf, mostly, of the Schindlers. [...] [The] Schindlers have enlisted legal assistance that‘s amounted to millions of dollars at this point, mostly from national right to life associated groups [emphasis added]. He goes on to point out that the legal fees for each filing are at least $20,000, and that teams of 20 and 30 appellate lawyers have worked on the federal appeals, and that each would bill between $500-600 per hour. He points out that very recently the ACLU has stepped in with assistance for Michael Schiavo's attorney, but that to a vast extent the amount of outside money and in-kind legal contributions have gone to the Schindlers and has come from anti-abortion groups. I personally have been contacted by a California private investigator working for Gibbs, the Schindler's attorney, and I know that PI's don't come cheap.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#47)
    by soccerdad on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 06:06:14 AM EST
    Dr Ace says:
    I am not interested in your "seriousness" conceit, because in my experience, you seem to come to the debate with your dogma in place and demand that the facts be made to fit it
    Dr Ace is now in first place for most hypocritical statement of 2005. A very big effort on his part. The rest of the wingers will have to try hard to top this.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 06:27:09 AM EST
    Nice work, Soc. Thanks; I appreciate it. How about a new honor here, maybe the Procrustes Award, for you, who stretch the facts or lop them off at the knees as need be, to fit the iron bed of your orthodoxy...

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#49)
    by soccerdad on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 06:28:10 AM EST
    DA Don't lower yourself to taking the bait (I've been there, done that) and engaging PPJ, or the few other representatives of pond scum that visiti here. They are not interested in debate, they think themselves the great arbiters of morality when in fact they consider "snark" as reason and blind speculation or even lies as facts. Everyone nows their game, point out their factual errors and let them wollow in their own written excrement. Gee, I think you gave me similar advice a few months ago. They're like hemorroids, a pain in the @ss, don't amount to much, and eventually will go away.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 10:07:32 AM EST
    DA - To attack someone's family who has no position in the debate is the height of poor taste. They are not involved. They have no stated position. It is the same as attacking someone who is just walking by. Why do it? It is done for a variety of reasons. First, to enrage the other party and see if you can cause an angry and irrational response. Secondly, because you cannot out perform the other person, all you have left is family, and other, insults. It defines you as a weak and angry person. And yes, I find Foxworthy not funny. His humor is meant to appeal to our baser instincts to denigrate people we think to be of lessor status in society. I will not tolerate the use of the "N" word around me, and I find its use by blacks troubling. If you insult yourself, who will respect you? You forget that I am social liberal who has worked an believed in certain changes in our society, instead you focus only on what we disagree on. That is an excellent way to assure opposition. SD - I have just responded to about three comments made by you in a calm and reasonable manner. Your problem appears to be that you believe disagreement with you is some terrible sin. Trust me. It isn't. So just go on demonstrating your lack of self control and weak logic ability. It defines you, again and again.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimcee on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 12:35:08 PM EST
    It appears that some correspondents on TL believe invective is all there is to an exchange of ideas. Too bad for them and too bad for the Left as a whole because as long as these idiots are considered the core of the Left, think Robert Byrd or Ted Kennedy or some respondents to this site, the Left will be out of power. And before you say that the Right embracess their nuts as well consider what happened to Trent Lott and will eventually happen to DeLay and the split that is happeneing between religio-cons and libertarians in the Schiavo case. The Left refuses to ostricise its worst offenders at all. At least the Right has made attempts to get rid of their trash.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#53)
    by Sailor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 01:13:48 PM EST
    "At least the Right has made attempts to get rid of their trash." bill frist delay g w bush cheney rumsfeld bolton rice powell ashcroft gonzales scarborough randall terry pat robertson limbaugh o'reilly You, sir are deluded, the RW promotes f#%kups and christofascists and the repubs cater to the extremisits who want to kill judges and doctors they don't agree with. They want to destroy the constitution and put us all in a theocracy. Yours is the party of hate, death, torture, war crimes, preemptive war. It's your PLATFORM, so don't dare say all you lockstepped, echo chambered ghouls police your own. Clinton lied about a BJ, and you spent more than $40M trying to impeach him. GWB lied about WMD, is still getting our children killed, but you give him a pass. When you turn GWB et al over to the Int'l war crimes court, we can talk about invective.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 03:32:39 PM EST
    More then 40 MILLION abortions, Sailor, considered no problem by the left. Who's a ghoul now?

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#55)
    by glanton on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 04:02:00 PM EST
    Ahhh, when logic ultimately fails the vacuous mind, it finds its Falwellian haven in taking a shot at Roe. Keep waving the bloody shirt, Doc. Stay alert, and stay with Fox.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 05:47:47 PM EST
    Glanton, at least the Nazis deliberately perped evil. What's it like to be a toadyboy of evil?

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#57)
    by glanton on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 06:06:02 PM EST
    Support for Roe is hardly supporting evil, for that matter it isn't even supporting abortion. But here Doctor you play the hand of 99% of those "protesting" the Shiavo decisions: you, the people outside the hospice, and Randall Terry and the GOP Congress and the Bush Boys and Fox and Rush don't give a damn about that woman: it's all about throwing the nation back thirty years of civil liberties gains, attacking Roe; it's about sticking your damned noses into people's private affairs, self righteous vipers all of you, using this tragic case to push an odious agenda. Even the evangelicals see through it. So again, keep drooling and ranting. You're putting on quite the entertaining, if macabre, show.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#58)
    by glanton on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 06:37:37 PM EST
    Put it down however you want to, Ace. Your question was a stupid one. This is not the GOP convention or a Falwell Revival, or even the New York Times. You don't get to frame the discussion here. Other than ad hominem, the only thing you have contributed to this site in months has been an occasional spurt of lashouts, either against Roe or something else, it doesn't matter. Again, how sickening of you people to use Shiavo and her family in this manner. But par the course, as well.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#59)
    by Sailor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 06:59:53 PM EST
    shorter Dr A$$ - letting 1 irreversibly brain damaged white woman die is murder, killing numerous viable black babies against their mother's wishes is OK. Obviously since you didn't refute any of my points you must endorse killing doctors performing legal medical procedures and those judges (including the supreme court) who upheld their rights to perform those procedures. Hey, in addition to 'what about the children' or 'states rights' how about 'RULE OF LAW, RULE OF LAW!' To mix a metaphor, that strawman don't hunt. Once again the RW endorses the culture of death.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 07:35:24 PM EST
    DA - After all is said and done, you are the one who brought family into the conversation with a despicable attack. I objected to it. So rant and posture and rave and posture. But that is an absolutely undeniable fact.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 11:36:57 AM EST
    despicable attack. Yes, you're the arbeiter of what is acceptable or not. ROTFLMAO!

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 08:21:03 PM EST
    You are not going to get through to members of the leftist socialist culture of death baby murdering sodomite protecting God hating kook fringe. They love death. They want to murder babies, the elderly, the sick, anyone that isn't a snob socialist mentally damaged leftist elitist. You evil people will however stand the judgment. Whether you believe it or not doesn't change a thing.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 09:06:33 PM EST
    You don't like what the woman said, on Greta's show, ergo she's a liar. Surely you caught the video of Michael Schiavo on TV, Mar. 19, telling the world that "Terri had made CASUAL COMMENT(S) that she didn't want to "live that way". The following week, I believe it was Sat. Mar. 26 that one of his brothers was viewed on TV. He said that Michael and Terri had PROMISED EACH OTHER not to let the other live that way! Casual comments? Promise? Do any of you discern the difference? As to the health care worker (nurse or otherwise) who cared for Terri, she stated in an affidavit that Michael asked her on more than one occasion what he should do. "We didn't talk about this." Let's get real. Generally those in their 20s do not give serious thought to end-of-life decisions. Read the transcript of the Larry King Show where he interviewed Michael Schiavo. Read what Michael said re his and Terri's discussions on the subject. I've followed this case since January and I am convinced, with many others, that those in the black robes have taken it upon themselves to legislate, regardless of desires of most U.S. citizens. We elect our senators and representatives, but not our federal judges. Yet when Congress stepped in to prevent the starvation of an innocent person, what an outcry we heard from the left! If you have not educated yourselves that something very questioning may have culminated in the determined decision that Terri Schiavo MUST DIE, do some more research. Also buy lawyer George Felos' book or read excerpts on the net. If you don't conclude he is a strange, disturbed person, cling to your tunnel-vision and hope they don't come for you or yours someday.

    Re: Terri Schiavo Watch (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 12:11:55 AM EST
    Why wont you publish this truth? When my old dog was given her death sentence (as Terris was from the very start of this fiasco) My vet did not put my old girl in a room to starve to death, He did the humane thing quickly WITHOUT PAIN. If only Terri had been a dog! My advice to you is WATCH THAT CRIMEINAL HUSBAND OF HERS THAT POSES AS A HUMAN. HAVE A GREAT DAY

    Terri Schiavo Watch | 58 comments (58 topical)