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Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Done

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 10:05:03 AM EST
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The last appeal was denied this morning in the Terri Schiavo case. Florida state Judge George Greer denied relief in this latest filing in which the parents presented an affidavit from a member of their lawyers' firm who says on the day the feeding tube was removed, Terri was asked to repeat the words "I want to live" if that's what she wanted, and she responded, "Ahhh" "waaaa".

Doctors have said Schiavo's past utterances were involuntary moans consistent with someone in a vegetative state.

The parents have said they will not go back to the federal courts. It's over.

Her death will now become a spectacle watched by the entire world. Already, there are sites taking bets as to the exact moment she will expire. Some express boredom or indifferrence - saying the story has outlived its newsworthiness.

The story clearly is making a lot of people uncomfortable. Why? I My view is that it a display of American voyeurism at its worst.

On the angle of the radical right's religious hysteria over the case, read Billmon and check out Jesus' General's Republican Jesus feature.

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    Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Done | 52 comments (52 topical)
    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 11:20:35 AM EST
    terri is in the same medically needy program as i am down here in florida we are hoping that the attention that terri is receiving will focus on the medically needy program and our fight to save it thank you link

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 11:33:41 AM EST
    Can't be too long before the trickle becomes the flood. Shrug off the state certified murder of your neighbor and you just granted them permission to target your own picayune existence.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#3)
    by Adept Havelock on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 11:56:37 AM EST
    Bendito, Your (and others) "outrage" might be a little more plausible if you were also condeming this case as well. After all, this child was removed from life support against the parent's wishes, under a law that was signed by none other than the current president. Oh, maybe that's why the Talibaptists haven't bothered with it. Maybe it's not all that important to them to "err on the side of life" when it might cast Georgie in a bad light. The silence from the fundies on Bush's law is deafening. I guess Bush was for it before he was against it. Sorry Kuros, I hope it helps you out too. However, we here in MO just has a great example of how the compassionate conservatives were going to save money by cutting Medical and Social programs for the disabled (until they got caught and people started getting outraged). Jeb is cut from the same cloth as those yahoos.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 12:46:49 PM EST
    Adept - are you saying you agree with the Texas case and the Schiavo case, or are you just pointing out the hyprocricy? Yes, there is hyprocricy enough to go around on both sides. It's funny, if I don't feed my kids and they starve then it is murder. But if you don't feed a patient and they die then it isn't. How many defense lawyers here would be upset if their client was found guilty and sentenced to death with as much evidence as presented here? Yet, the right goes out of it's way to make sure a person in this condition is taken care of yet cuts medicare and health benefits. We are all hypocrites and should be ashamed of ourselves for not doing more to help those in trouble.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#5)
    by Adept Havelock on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 12:53:35 PM EST
    Indeed, BocaJeff. Plenty for everyone on this issue. However, I believe the reason that the removal of the feeding tube is not being legally considered to be murder has something to do with the court finding for M. Schiavo's statements that Terri would not want to live this way.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 01:08:17 PM EST
    Bush also cut funding for the Federal Traumatic Brain Injury Act. According to doctors at Walter Reed Army Medical Center (you know, that hotbed of liberal views;-), 60 percent of the wounded soldiers coming back from Iraq have traumatic brain injuries.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#7)
    by Adept Havelock on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 01:28:08 PM EST
    Why does Walter Reed Hospital hate America? ;-)

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 03:40:49 PM EST
    Agree, Talkleft. I'm a Nurse practitioner in Tampa and have been appalled by the constant barage of Terri's image everywhere. We recently changed our pts right to privacy laws, making them even stronger. Then you see Terri's picture, Terri's picture with the ballon etc etc Blatant exploitation. Very disturbing.Who do blame for that? The media for doing it or the family for sneaking a camera into the Hospice and filming her?? I think I heard that the Schiavo's have appealled to the Florid Supreme Court, again. What are your predictions???

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 03:41:09 PM EST
    I found a great post about the legal aspects of the Schiavo affair at american demos, everybody should check it out.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 03:55:46 PM EST
    et al - It isn't murder because the state says it is legal. It is, however, a killing.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 04:06:01 PM EST
    Why do so many people persist in lies and distortions? It's funny, if I don't feed my kids and they starve then it is murder. It's not murder if your child is in a persistent vegetative state and you're the legal guardian. We are all hypocrites and should be ashamed of ourselves for not doing more to help those in trouble. You're the one relying on dishonest arguments. That's where the hypocrisy lies. If you want to help those in trouble concentrate on helping those who can actually benefit from your help.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 05:03:26 PM EST
    Since 2000, I've resisted labeling actions by the Neocons and their peripheral herd as Fascist, preferring to ascribe only a desire for hegemon and greed abroad to Corporate wishes. I've even praised the Neocons for making no real progress towards the Christian Theocracy that Social Conservative would-be inquisitors would like to see America become. But this story, happening (literally) in my backyard has me furious. Jeb Bush tried to send State Police to override a Judge's order and abduct the woman out of her Hospice. I'm surprised in the extreme that local police actually told them they had no authority to do so and that State Police / Department of Families would be barred from entry unless accompanied by the Judge who set the order. Whether it was politically motivated to cause a stir or not, Jeb's administration has just attempted to use the powers of the Florida executive to violate a legal order. That specific action is clearly an abuse of power. He should be impeached. But given the Conservative stranglehold over the State legislature, I suppose there will be no check on Jeb Bush's authority. Thank providence for Lawton's judges - Gerrymandered place that Florida is.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 07:14:19 PM EST
    Tamp, sometimes I fear you are educated beyond your intelligence. Havelock, you're very adept at responding to Ben's alleged outrage, but you seem to ignore the sharp logic of his comment. I thought the word "picayune" very apt.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 07:43:42 PM EST
    As the Terri Schiavo tragedy continues, we've learned that most Americans believe that these complex, deeply private end-of-life decisions should be made by families, not the government. What we've also learned that is that one of the Americans who apparently feels that way is none other than Tom Delay. The Los Angeles Times reports that in 1988, Mr. Delay's own family chose to end life support for their 65 year old father, severely injured in a tragic accident:
    "There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the congressman's 81-year-old mother, recalled in an interview last week. "There was no way he (Charles) wanted to live like that. Tom knew, we all knew, his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way." Doctors advised that he would "basically be a vegetable," said the congressman's aunt, JoAnne DeLay. When the man's kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connecting him to a dialysis machine. "Extraordinary measures to prolong life were not initiated," said his medical report, citing "agreement with the family's wishes." His bedside chart carried the instruction: "Do Not Resuscitate." On Dec. 14, 1988, the senior DeLay "expired with his family in attendance." (Source: LA Times, 3/26/05)
    In a further irony for the tort reform crusader Delay, his family filed a product liability lawsuit and later received a $250,000 settlement. In 1988 and beyond, the Delay family suffered a terrible tragedy, one which should elicit only our sympathy, not our judgment. Surely all Americans can respect their pain, their preferences - and their privacy.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 08:36:53 PM EST
    Whatever, Ace. When it comes to writing irritating obtuse acrimony, I'm afraid I'm no match for your half-witted ego.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 02:34:41 AM EST
    Jim: "It isn't murder because the state says it is legal. It is, however, a killing." Jim, on each of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians: "It isn't murder because the state says it is legal. It is, however, a killing." The difference is that the people of Iraq were healthy and conscious when Bush butchered them. They got to watch their children go up in flames, along with their cities. Just how far is Fallujah from Florida, anyhow? Apparently it is Across the Racist Divide.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 06:26:42 AM EST
    The Right -to- Lifers should call themselves the right -to White, Christian, Conservative -lifers. All other life is apparently not worthy of their histrionics.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 07:31:20 AM EST
    TS - Jeb Bush is the Executuve Officer of the State of Florida. As such he has sworn an oath to uphold the constitution. If he believes someone has violated the constitution, yes, even if that someone is a judge, he has every right to take action. Indeed, many believe he must. The action should be reasonable, and it should be decided later in the courts. But a judge is not the totality of our government. A judge is only one part of three equal branches. A judge must answer to someone. But the Left, the radical Left in particular, has started to believe judges are more equal. This is natural because the agenda of the far Left has been advanced mostly through the courts, and not through Congress. The frustration that people feel in this matter is explained in this Their take is that the family was "outlawyered" in the inital hearing, and after that the justice system has only ruled on "law," not on fact and evidence. Congress sought to correct this by passing a law that directed the federal judge to review the total case. That judge did not do that. That is a shame because it certianly appears, especially to laymen, that he ignored the will of Congress and thus the will of the people, who Congress represents. This case has been a perfect storm for the judiciary. They have weathered it at the cost of further loss of confidence in the system, and a further reduction in reasonableness on both sides. They should have made a great attempt to explain the situation, and they should have taken the "way out" that congress gave them. At the very least taken it so that the husband's side could have taken it to the SC. That they did not is bad governance. The additional cost is to the Left, and their champions, the Democrats. The law of unintended consquence has given Bush the perfect reason to stop the filibuster and to fill the judiciary with the very judges the Left does not want. I cannot believe Bush will not take this opporunity. And before you scream about the polls, remember that Bush is not poll driven. He is driven by his agenda.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 07:32:45 AM EST
    et al - The link in the above is from Power Line on 3/26.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#22)
    by soccerdad on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 07:47:11 AM EST
    Of course the plan of the Rethufs was to further weaken the judicial part of the government in the eyes of the people so to further gain sympathy for their cause of stacking the courts with their extremists picks. So PPJ where did you copy this from, frontpage or some other rag. i'd go look except i don't have the stomach for it today. As if powerline is a fair and unbiased source. Of course if you can back it up with a source not on the koolaid, maybe we would all pay more attention.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 07:49:58 AM EST
    PIL - This thread is about Terri Schiavo. But to answer you: Yes, people are being killed in Iraq. Some intentionally, some accidentally. It is a sad fact of war. Killing is happening. Now we all know you hate Bush, oppose the war, and call everyone who supports the war racist. Got anything new to say? Jon - As you well know, the difference is that the Delay family was in agreement. That is not true in the Schindler-Schiavo case. You really shouldn't compare the two. et al - I would like to see the following poll questions: 1. If there is a Living Will, or if there is not, but the immediate family is in agreement on what action to take, should the government intercede? My answer would be NO. 2. If there is not a Living Will, and if the immediate family is NOT in agreement on what action to take, should the government intercede? My answer: YES. Those two questions allow an honest response to different situations. The polls I have seen do not, so they are really meaningless, apparently designed to support a position of the polling group.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#24)
    by soccerdad on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 07:57:00 AM EST
    Rethugs not Rethufs The republcans are only the party of life when it fits their political agenda. They don't care about life, they dont care about the Iraqi civilians they slaughter, they don't care about the young child who died in Texas against the mothers wishs due to a law bush signed the purpose of which was to save money, they don't care about the Indians who were killed last week. Jeb is trying to solidify his standing with the radical conservative base so he run in 2008. Its blatent hypocrisy passing as political theater. And by the way I find the conservative religious right that it would be ok to kill the husband and anybody who stands in the way of saving a dead women a tad hypocritical.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#25)
    by soccerdad on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 09:17:00 AM EST
    2. If there is not a Living Will, and if the immediate family is NOT in agreement on what action to take, should the government intercede?
    Fine tuning the argument to fit todays circumstance The husband has the legal rights, something you don't want to bring up and don't bother with all your inneundo about the husband

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 09:33:24 AM EST
    It is ironic that a bulemic's last moments in life are centered around food issues. As the parent of a bulemic child, I believe that Terri probably did not want to live in the first place. Bulemics are very self-destructive and the disease is their vehicle. Her penance has been the vegetative state she has been kept in for the last 15 years. Now are we going to continue to punish her, or finally give her the release she sought in the first place when she hated and abused her own body? And no, if my daughter were in the same state, I would not keep her indefinitely alive. I say this with the confidence of my religious beliefs, that there is another life beyond this one, and tying someone to this plane of existence beyond their time is cruel and selfish on our part.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 09:42:19 AM EST
    SD - No, stating the reality of TWO different situations. The husband's "rights" are well covered in both cases. BTW - If you have been paying attention you must know that I haven't defended the right's position. BTW - I merely noted Power Line's comments. If you disagree, fine. Why don't you send them an email and challenge them to a debate? And my thoughts are my own. But, have you read Juan Cole lately? I am sad about our present condition. The judiciary reminds me of the medical profession a few years ago. They speak more and more to themselves while effecting more and more of the general public. That is bad. Communication is crucial.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 09:48:31 AM EST
    PPJ very funny,
    I haven't defended the right's position.
    folowed by
    The judiciary reminds me of the medical profession a few years ago. They speak more and more to themselves while effecting more and more of the general public. That is bad
    Irony is your king

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 10:29:21 AM EST
    SD - As you know, the thread under discusson is Terri Schiavo. I have not defended the right's position in this manner. The right wants her left as is. I just want the question of her intent to be fairly judged. Huge difference.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 10:56:19 AM EST
    PPJ support of the culture of faux life Mrs. Schiavo's intent has been fairly judged you just don't like the outcome so you keep asking for a do over at least her parents are honest --they are on record saying it wouldn't matter what she said they don't believe it would be the right thing to do. you are just a lazy right wing loser who cannot even bother to educate himeself the history and facts of the case

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 11:00:43 AM EST
    TS - Jeb Bush is the Executuve Officer of the State of Florida. As such he has sworn an oath to uphold the constitution. If he believes someone has violated the constitution, yes, even if that someone is a judge, he has every right to take action. Indeed, many believe he must. There is no legal foundation; Jeb is making it up as he goes. This isn't a frontier judge hanging people in the town square; this is a judge issuing a ruling/order based on his interpretation of law/precedent - i.e. his job. It is not Jeb's job to re-interpret legal rulings by Florida courts. It is also not his job to play politics (or even worse, seriously instigate a police showdown) in order to violate a Court order. But then, I find it pretty interesting that Conservatives and Conservatives-pretending-to-be-Social-Liberals want to give the Executive Carte Blanche to run amok over our legal landscape. King Jeb? What kind of name is Jeb anyway - he's from Maine. Even his name is a political stunt.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#32)
    by Jlvngstn on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 11:19:39 AM EST
    PPJ: Husband and his brother and his wife all heard her say that she would not want to kept alive in a pvs state. I am sure thousands of people are praying for her to survive without the tube, perhaps god will intervene adn show his power. Or maybe, there is no god and the convenience of miracles is not going to happen. I feel bad for her parents but the charade of getting better should be put to rest.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#33)
    by soccerdad on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 11:38:35 AM EST
    PPJ What BS. Your little thing about the judges was right of the right wing script. No what you and the other wingnuts want is the judges to come to same conlusion you have, it they don't they're activist judges. Right? You're pretty good at splitting hairs, but unfortunately you leave a trail. You just want whats fair as long as "fair" is defined as what you want. This has always been your tact, but its become transparent

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 12:26:55 PM EST
    What's the difference between pulling the "plug" on Terri's life? Her eating disorder got her where she is in the first place. She didn't and wasn't eating in the first pla.e. She's getting what she asked for (only 15 years later). This is what she wanted. It's not what her husband wanted.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 01:26:48 PM EST
    Jim: "PIL - This thread is about Terri Schiavo." Not actually. You were making a point that state approval does not change the fact of murder. That's utter hypocrisy coming from you, apologist. "But to answer you: Yes, people are being killed in Iraq. Some intentionally, some accidentally. It is a sad fact of war. Killing is happening." Your passive voice betrays your LYING, Jim. "Now we all know you hate Bush," For very good, well proven reasons. " oppose the war," Because it has killed many tens of thousands of totally innocent, cerebrated human beings, who you do not think are fully human. On the other hand, you think a decerebrated woman who lost 99% of her mental life in an infarct fifteen years ago and has been kept alive in a jar for the gratification of her parents DENIAL, is a tragedy. "and call everyone who supports the war racist." QED. Wash your hands, Jim. It's a good weekend for that, and for sure the racist in your brain will not lift a finger to stop the MURDER of the innocent en masse. One tragic white woman -- an outrage. 100,000 tragic Arabs -- when is dinner?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 07:06:47 PM EST
    Hmmm, Let me see if I can write like SD. Listen moonbat, your drivel is stupid by any comparsion to the real world and you don't read Power Line and have no conception of what truth is spoken to power if the judges say do it then you have no ided of what is wrong with the right and we all know that you are stupid anyway becaise you disagree with me... BTW - That's humor, son. Or an attempt at same. PIL - In the spirit of further playing like Soccerdad. You're an idiot. According to you everyone is a racist who disagrees with you. Grow up. BTW - Yes, people do get killed in wars. In the spirit of PPJ - Good heavens. Grow up. Pepper - Her weight was 115 when she died. Hardly skinny. But hey, it makes no difference now. She's being killed anyhow. Did she have a Living will, we're unsure.. But we know that our thoughts and motives are pure.. JL - Then how come some say that, pre malpractice trial, the husband was saying he didn't know what she wanted. Oh, wait! I know. Everyone is lying. There. That solves everything. You gotta watch out for that world full of liars. TS - Your problem is simple. You refuse to recognize that we have three equal branches of government. But I pointed that out in the last comment. I'll ignore your smary comment re my political philsophy, and just put it down to an overwhelming lack of knowledge on your part. But the hissy fit is hard to ignore. To steal a line from "Be Cool." Look at me, TS. If the judges have no control, what is to keep them from taking over? Load - A "right wing?" You display your total ignorance of my many comments in support of social liberal causes. And lose? Lose what? I can assure you of very little, except this. For the last 39 years my life has been pure velvet. Here, read a little of my political beliefs, post radical take over of my Democratic Party.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 08:34:25 PM EST
    If Jeb wants to push the legislature to rewrite the law in such a manner that ties the hands of the judiciary and then sign it, that is his remedy, his check, his discretion under the Florida Constitution, Common Law, and Florida Statute. Sending the police to act on his personal will, regardless of the motivation, is an abuse of power. The Pinellas County Sheriff (surprisingly) would seem to agree with me.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 11:34:59 PM EST
    "Posted by Doctor Ace: "40 million abortions, 24% African-American, twice the population rate." Your point being? "C'mon Paul, Soc, et.al., and tell us they're not really people." OK: they are not 'really' people. Embryos are not people. Spontaneous abortion of zygotes is something like 40% of all fertilizations. You may if you prefer believe that God is ordaining these failed implantations, but that's just your claim. Why God would not want 40% of all fertilizations to fail remains unexplained. Non-viable fetuses are not people, in the sense of being separable from the mother's body, health concerns, and health status. They cannot be accorded the individuality of 'personhood.' Born children, and viable late-stage fetuses ARE people, and blowing them up en masse is a very great crime. USPNAC has killed something like 50,000 children. And you have laughed about it. So when you want to dress yourself up in MORALITY, like the wingers over what's left of T. Schiavo, the blood on your hands makes that RIDICULOUS.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#39)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 03:04:42 AM EST
    PPJ You have no sense of humor when you are shown to be wrong do you? For you to complain about anyone else is hypocritical since all you ever do is snark. pathetic as usual

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#40)
    by soccerdad on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 03:31:26 AM EST
    shorter PPJ - I am a social liberal and Bush is right about everything. And he think's we're still buying this broken down, hypocritical nonsense.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 07:31:59 AM EST
    TS - Glad to know you are now a FL constitutional expert, as well as US. Repeat after me. If he thinks the constututional is being violated, as chief executive officer, he is duty bound to act. It can then be sorted out. Our political system depends on checks and balances. ON ALL BRANCHES. (Yes, that's a yell!) And actually it is claimed he dispatched the health and human services protective group, not police. I mean experts should keep their facts straight. Actually he sent no one. And the sheriff isn't the top state executive. Details, details, details. SD - Shorter. I'm SD and I know all. The US is evil, the courts are always right and I hate Bush. BTW - How do you square my position on gay marriage (don't care) and health care (must be fixed, probably a single payer plan, tax payer funded) with you snarky claims about my supposed love of Bush?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#42)
    by glanton on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 07:48:24 AM EST
    PPJ: The problem with what you're saying is that it's much easier to say the constitution is being violated than to prove it. The tension between the might explain, among other things, why Jeb is not storming the Bastille, as it were, and seizing Shiavo in direct defiance of the courts. The Fla courts have not violated the consitution because they have ruled on the evidence available to them. Not liking the ruling is no excuse for defying their decision: you have to show that they did something illegal. Michael might well be lying. But we cannot prove it. And the husband's word has to stand here: we have no choice but to assume he knew his wife's wishes better than anyone. You might say but wait, there's new evidence. To which I ask, do you think there would have ever been a moment that the parents, in all their paon, wouldn't have come forward with "new evidence"--would they have ever let this go? Do we just draw it out indefinitely? I don't like the situation any better than you do but to use the case to somehow delegitimze the Courts (not something you have done, but something the Right has made it their #1 priority to do) is despicable. Again, if Michael is lying to achieve some agenda than he is the lowest of the low, here. And again, I too wish he had just walked away and let the parents care for their daughter. But I also wish we had health care for the destitute in this nation, I wish we didn't make it a regular project to blow things and people up, I wish the color codes were in a novel and not a real government tactic, I wish the Scopes trials were over--that religion stayed in the home and in the church, and I wish the media were responsible. A wish in one hand a pile of *&$# in the other, what do you have more of?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 09:00:05 AM EST
    You guys expend a lot of useless energy kicking around old Jim. Talking to Terri Schiavo would be a more enlightening conversation.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#45)
    by Kitt on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 09:22:00 AM EST
    Jim - "Repeat after me. If he thinks the constututional is being violated, as chief executive officer, he is duty bound to act." Jeb Bush has already said he does not have the constitutional power to intercede. He's done all he can as 'Governor of Florida' and he will do nothing more. Hence - the point is moot. He's the CEO as you say and HE is not taking further action. It's over.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 12:18:35 PM EST
    Gentle Readers: PPJ does not just mount strawmen - he is one. PLEASE let's not get every progressive discussion derailed by PPJ's invectives - they show no real position and don't make sense - I'm beginning to doubt that PPJ is a real person expressing their own opinions ("Is that you, Carl??...Don?...). PPJ is now on my permanent "manual" ignore - I hope to garner support in this area - let's actually get somewhere! PPJ States:
    You display your total ignorance of my many comments in support of social liberal causes.
    . Jim - this is the biggest hunk of hooey you've spewed out of your rabid frothing mouth to date. I've been commenting here for months and can't think of even ONE instance where you took a position that was anything but antithetical to TL's. This, in fact, is the only common thread to your "views" (and I do use that term loosely) and makes me suspicious of your ultimate motives for posting here.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 12:29:14 PM EST
    Jim has a Living Will stipulating that when he is unable to comment on TL, all life support functions shall be terminated.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 12:34:03 PM EST
    Now, re: Terri. Fact #1: The parents position is to deny that she is in a PVS based on their "observations" that she appears lucid to them and despite repeated independent medical diagnoses to the contrary. The only position that supports the parents claims is that the Doctors are lying or mistaken and that Terri "knows" what's happening and wants to live. This is creepy for several reasons. First is that anyone who knows anything about brain function who has read the diagnosis of no prefrontal cortex and no normal electrical activity in the brain can doubt that Terri has no "consciousness" or "awareness of her surroundings", never mind a "will to live." This smacks of an anthromorphization (look it up!) of Terri that equates the Schindlers with folks who say that their cat or dog "talks" to them and they can understand and relay everything they say. The next creepy fact is that the Parents claim they "know" what's "best for Terri" and "what Terri wants" over her husband's claim that Terri claimed otherwise. Now, I'm imagining parents who never let go of Terri - who were so involved in Terri's live that Bob Schindler, after hearing that Terri's husband had received a lost spousal wages compensation of $300K (equal to what she would have earned during her lifetime)felt this should be shared with the Schindlers - as if they were Terri in some sense and in a martial partnership with Michael in her absence. In keeping with Michelle's comment that:
    It is ironic that a bulemic's last moments in life are centered around food issues.
    I wonder if her parents seeming inability to allow her to "leave her parents and cleave to her husband" reflected a sense that "They knew what Terri really wanted perhaps even over what Terri claimed she did??" That may contribute to an explanation of the Bulimia. I find it as bizarre that the Schindlers would feel entitled to share this compensation for Michael as it would have been for them to ask for a portion of her wages when alive. So, anyone who feels that the doctors are wrong (research first, please) and that Terri is conscious and can recover, and who ALSO believe that your parents should have the final say over your husband re: your wishes if you are incapacitated STAND UP AND BE COUNTED!!! Because that's the only argument you can use here.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 01:30:15 PM EST
    They should change the law, I'm saddened to think that this happening in America. Starving someone to death, if this were my child I would find a way to at least give her water, that isn't life support. I cannot understand why the parents aren't putting up more of a fuss to have more say so about her life, after all her husband has another life. I think he did this to her, why would he want her to be cremated?!!! The only person in her family who shows any sign of a little care is her brother.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 01:40:20 PM EST
    Oh by the way I posted this comment non-politically. Instead of letting this proccess go on like this, she should live Oregon.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 02:16:30 PM EST
    I cannot understand why the parents aren't putting up more of a fuss to have more say so about her life, after all her husband has another life
    Um, I think it was the parents who were supposed to get another life. At least according to the bible?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 05:18:20 PM EST
    And actually it is claimed he dispatched the health and human services protective group, not police. I mean experts should keep their facts straight. Actually he sent no one. That's a blatant lie. Easily referenced at information services, apparently outside of NewsMax. The State Police were accompanying the Department of Families. Or is it your contention that the mainstream media lied? Please, please, please...fall into that trap so I can reference back to it every single time you make apologies for the corporate media. Here, I'll help you; I don't even believe that the information is completely accurate -- but then, I never trust what the Television tells me to believe. Et Tu?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:58:44 PM EST
    Isn't there a doctor in prison for assisted suicide? I think if I'm not mistaken. I think he has more compassion than these people who are starving her to death, a slow repulsive death, People go to jail for not properly caring and giving their animals food or water.I can't believe it!!!! I thought it was enforced to have it in writing, stating if a person didn't want life support. Even if she isn't hurting, it may be tramatic to children who are watching this. I am not a child but is still tramatic. It's so hard to understand the laws. It seems like the president could have done something, he does everything his way in other matters.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 02:43:50 PM EST
    Agonizing about this person in a semi-vegetative state,and NEVER a hint, a whisper of concern about tens of millions of U.S kids living in poverty - and dont give me that "povertys a reletive term" horse sh*t - or, the thousands slaughtered,maimed and traumatized in Iraq by this "pro-life" administration. I dont believe any of you. You direct your "concern for life" in whatever direction your authoritarian movement tells you to and no further. Simon sez stand on your head.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Do (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 07:11:50 PM EST
    Well they don't have to have it all over the media. It does bother me when I see our guys who come back from the war with no limbs. and it also bothers me to know that there are hungry people, especially when there is food wasted everyday. I just think the laws should be different. I guess I just have more feelings than some people do. The subject was Terri. I am not standing on my head yet!!!!!!!!

    Terri Schiavo: Final Appeal Denied, Parents Done | 52 comments (52 topical)