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11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in Terri Schiavo Case

By Jeralyn, Section Court Decisions
Posted on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:04:41 PM EST
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Terri Schiavo has been without food or water for 11 days. The latest reports have her in her final hours. And the 11th Circuit has just agreed to consider a new hearing on her parent's request for reinsertion of her feeding tube. What's going on?

Early today, in a surprise move, a federal appeals court told her parents they could file a motion for a rehearing in their effort to have her feeding tube reconnected. The ruling gave them renewed access to the federal court system, though its ultimate significance was not immediately clear.

CNN reports it's a request for en banc review of the last denial.

In other Schiavo news, Jesse Jackson and Randall Terry are now on the same side. And the arrests continue, with police tasering the latest subject.

During Jackson's news conference, Dow Pursley, 56, of Scranton, Pa., sprinted the length of the hospice driveway in an attempt to bring water to Schiavo. Two policemen tackled him and shocked him twice with a Taser.

Pursley was charged with attempted burglary and resisting arrest without violence, the 47th arrest at the hospice since Schiavo's tube was removed March 18.

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    11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in Terri Schiavo Case | 65 comments (65 topical)
    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:53:11 PM EST
    Whee-diculous on all sides. The judges, Jesse, Terry, protesters, and her parents need to take less drugs. Or more.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 04:10:49 AM EST
    Anybody read Nat Hentoff's column on Schiavo?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:00:00 AM EST
    This is a manufacturered ethical crisis by people like the Cult of Randall Terry and to oppose the will of this woman for political purposes Hopsice, the right to die with dignity and the right to make your own choices about health care whether you are non religious or a Christian Scientist or a Catholic is your right. Religious people who support the cult of the living dead are trying to impose their will on everyone. The worst argument is --why not give her back to her parents --BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT SHE WANTED. as for the alleged abuse better get your stories straight --everyone says prior to the heart attack she was a very happy out going person -doesn't sound abused to me.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:32:48 AM EST
    OK, then, both Nat Hentoff and Jesse Jackson have signed on to this "manufactured ethical crisis"? And half the Black Caucus in Congress if I'm mistaken. When people of diverse political affiliations are on the same side, maybe you should think a little harder about the issue.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:33:17 AM EST
    ps Perhaps Michael Schiavo should hire David Boies to sue Imus for the slander this morning claiming he was an abusive spouse.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:33:31 AM EST
    half the Black Caucus, if I'm not mistaken, is how above should read.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:36:03 AM EST
    Duece maybe you should try thinking at all Jesse Jackson LOL how much was he paid to appear...as for the black caucus perhaps you should count again liar-- And there are plenty of people on the OTHER side maybe you should re consider your opinion and try to make them fact based instead of picking things out of Sean Hannity's ass

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:42:47 AM EST
    by the way Hentoff like the parents oppose the right of people to choose even if Terry Schiavo had a written health care directive they would have opposed her choice so his signing on means nothing

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#9)
    by aw on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:11:37 AM EST
    I can't find one person who would want their body kept alive like this. Why is it so hard to believe that Ms. Schiavo wouldn't have either?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:15:29 AM EST
    Actually Jackson comes down on the same side as Randall Terry on just about every issue but affirmative action. He uses the same language in regards to gay people as Jerry Falwell--"love the sinner, hate the sin." Jackson and Falwell represent the left wing of the religious right, and given how much Jackson likes to see his face on TV and hear his own voice, I'm not surprised in the least.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:18:24 AM EST
    It seems this isn't really a left/right issue. Many democrats voted w/ the religous right in Congress, many secular republicans are outraged over the gov't interference in this family matter. It's more a battle between the jesus/morality crowd and the privacy/small govt. crowd.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:30:14 AM EST
    Scarborough last night said at least a dozen times that the government is starving Schiavo to death, that we are feeding Manson and not Schiavo. When we remove someone from a ventilator are we "suffocating" them? Here is the problem I have with the Christians protesting this along with any of the others that are calling it a "killing". If there is a precedent set that removing the feeding tube from Schiavo is tantamount to "killing" which is the fundamental argument of those protesting, what is to stop congress from enacting a law that bans people from making their own choice in this matter?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:34:00 AM EST
    The Los Angeles Times reported on March 27 that when DeLay's father was "badly injured in a freak accident at his home," leaving him "in a coma, kept alive by intravenous lines and oxygen equipment ... the congressman quietly joined the sad family consensus to let his father die." The paper noted DeLay's prominence in advocating the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. His mother also received $250,000 in a settlement as a result of a lawsuit in the injury matter. Tort Reform starts at home.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:38:13 AM EST
    I feel terrible for the other patience in the hospice and their families. How incredibly stressful it must be for them to have to endure the Operation Rescue screaming them down as they head in to visit their loved ones. I feel even more terrible for those patients whose friends and families have stayed away, and may have left them alone to die because they are afraid of being harassed by a protester or other performer in the three-ring media circus. The best thing Jesse Jackson, or any other clergyman, could do is to talk these people down rather than rile them up. The family is being so incredibly ugly (on both sides). I certainly can understand the dynamic--they have been at each other's throats for a decade, and passions are high. But ten years down the road, how are they going to feel about themselves having behaved this way? By all neutral accounts, most eloquently by Terri's guardian ad litem, both the Schindlers and the Schiavos are decent people at the core. When the fuel is taken away from the fire, they are going to have a hard time reconciling their behavior. I fear for the long-term mental health of people like Michael Schiavo and Bobby Schindler's kids, something for which they obviously have no regard while their tempers are so flared. Meanwhile, not only are the families acting so disgustingly, but we have people like Randall Terry making the hospice into an abortion clinic, and Jesse Jackson trying to liken this to another Selma, while cable news is making it into the next OJ or Monica Lewinsky. It's just very sad and very inappropriate, and very damaging.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:41:20 AM EST
    Of course that should have read "patients" not "patience". Too early, coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 07:03:31 AM EST
    I hope Michael Schiavo hires David Boies to sue Don Imus who slandered him this morning on the air Imus needs a trip to the irony board since he is complaining about the same thing from the WSJ

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 08:27:17 AM EST
    what is to stop congress from enacting a law that bans people from making their own choice in this matter?
    Great point J, and that is what scares me about this whole thing. I hope I will be allowed to die on my terms, or if suddenly incapicated, the terms my loved ones decide for me.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 08:54:20 AM EST
    I thought I had read that, in a few states, some crackpots are drafting legislation that would not outlaw living wills/advance directives, but require that they be subject to automatic review. By whom, I don't know. Kind of like a will contest, but with the State contesting it. Has anyone else read this?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#19)
    by Adept Havelock on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:09:31 AM EST
    It's more a battle between the jesus/morality crowd and the privacy/small govt. crowd.
    Contrary to the desire of many paid political pundits to cast this as a left/right issue, every poll I've seen and my own daily experiences discussing this case lead me to believe the statement above is quite correct. Randall Flagg (oops...Terry) is just desperately trying to remain in the public eye. What do you expect from a supporter of good ole' Tom "I don't want Michael to have the same rights I used when I took my own father off life support" Delay.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:29:21 AM EST
    Or Mr "I violated my daugher's right to privacy by selling video tapes of her" Schindler who "pulled the plug" on his mother.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:44:53 AM EST
    There are genuine reasons to be concerned about Mrs. Schiavo, even if many people are using this situation to score political points: Michael Schiavo's story that "this is what Terry wanted" is suspicious, to say the very least. 1. He did not come forward with Terri's supposed wish to die until several years after her heart attack. 2. He only mentioned her supposed wish to die after he received a substantial amount of money from an insurance company that was supposed to be used to provide rehabilitative care for his wife (he has refused to spend any of it for that purpose). 3. He only mentioned this supposed wish to die after he began living with another woman (whom he calls his fiancee, and with whom he has two children). I know, I know, it's the trial court's job to determine credibility, but there are serious reasons to doubt that Terri's wish was to die.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:53:13 AM EST
    Spainster nothing you posted is true this is man who went to nursing scool in order to care for his wife. He always maintained she would not want to be maintained in pvs but Michael Schiavo at first refused to believe she would not get better. He dragged to California to try all kind fo experimental treatment with the parents consent. get some facts you are a megaphone for lies

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:13:44 AM EST
    PS and you are completely wrong about when he formed another relationship and the age of his children vis a vie th courts original decision to remove the feeding tube. But people like you have created an atmosphere when you claim to support life at all costs but The Schiavo family now must live with full time security because of the many deaththreats. You and your ilk held demonstrations at Schiavo's residents, called his family or anyone with the name Schiavo throught he US but especially in their home state and harrassed them. And it is the Schindlers who publicly named Mr. SChiavo's partner and subjected her and her family to death threats and harrassment. Part of FAux Life

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#24)
    by BigTex on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:28:23 AM EST
    Kdog - you can die on your own terms if you set up a living will. Here's an aspect o' th' cast that I haven't seen discussed here before. Michael Schiavo is denying Terri th' right t' receive Communion in her last days. It's one issue t' say she said she wants t' die, another t' deny her th' right t' Communion, which we can safely assume she would want t' believe if she held even marginally t' her Catholic beliefs at th' time o' th' heart attack. This latest act seems purely spite driven rather than in Terri's interest. Does that change th' final analysis? Perhaps, since he can no longer say he's only lookin' out fer her interests, his actions have delivered a message t' th' contrary. Bur more likely it's too late fer anythin' t' come out o' th' blatent act o' spite. This certinally makes th' previous court rulins on him actin' in her best interest suspect though.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:32:25 AM EST
    She is not being denied her right to communion another lie from the Schindler's it was a shameless attempt to allow other than the priest who already serves the hospice access to her room..probably to take more videos for sale

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#26)
    by Patrick on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:36:04 AM EST
    Check me if I'm wrong Sandy, but after last rites, there is no further need for communion. Has she had her last rites? I still think this society can come up with a better way to end a life.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:38:31 AM EST
    She was given last rites when the feeding tube was removed. There was also publicly announced an Easter Communion and the hospice priest sees her everyday.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#28)
    by BigTex on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:48:13 AM EST
    Have you any proof t' counter th' news articles from CNN statin' th' contrary? She recieved Communion and Last Rights, but that was part o' a court order, which leads t' th' inference that it was contested by Michael. After that was met when th' parents wanted her t' receive Communion again th' next day, Michael refused t' allow her to. Here's a question fer you though. You decry her supporters actions and insuniate that they are religious zealots
    But people like you have created an atmosphere when you claim to support life at all costs but...you and your ilk held demonstrations...called his family or anyone with the name Schiavo throught he US but especially in their home state and harrassed them.
    How is that differnet from yer actions which seem t' be those o' a secularist zealot?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:51:36 AM EST
    Secular zealot hardly you are simply a liar CNN your source LOL they got that from the Schindler's it's none of your business

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:54:18 AM EST
    The Schindlers are not receiving death threats odd that it is all coming from one side and you have to lie to have a case that makes your allegations pretty baseless --everything in this case in a court order because of the behavior of the parents not Mr. Schiavo. And writing with an accent doesn't make you more reliable or credible it just makes you a theatrical distraction but still factless

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:02:41 AM EST
    The Schindler's just held a press conference with five people they had just paraded through Mrs. Schiavo's room I hardly think anyone is being denied access

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:05:57 AM EST
    caution: Rabid Moonbat Trolling the area

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:19:06 AM EST
    What a Load- Are you Channeling Terri Schiavo now? No one knows with absolute certainity what Terri wanted- and yes, there are some questions about Mr Schiavo's motivations. I do agree and think he has been dragged through the mud a bit in this spectacle, but the questions are valid. He even admitted on CNN he didn't know what Terri wanted- Check a Tivo'd version of his Larry King interview. I'm normally on the Limited Gov't side of the fence, but this case causes me to wonder who limits the Judiciary.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:19:40 AM EST
    Posted by at March 30, 2005 12:05 PM caution: Rabid Moonbat Trolling the area
    wonder who they meant? I hope it's not the folks trying to make sure this discussion is based on facts. It seems they are called whimpy when they don't speak up and rapid moonbats when they do.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:28:49 AM EST
    Try facts Mr. Owens Why did Terri’s husband get to make the decision about whether she should live or die? Michael Schiavo did not make the decision to discontinue life-prolonging measures for Terri. As Terri's husband, Michael has been her guardian and her surrogate decision-maker. By 1998, though -- eight years after the trauma that produced Terri's situation -- Michael and Terri's parents disagreed over the proper course for her. Rather than make the decision himself, Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements Terri made to him and others, he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures. Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case. The trial court in this case held a trial on the dispute. Both sides were given opportunities to present their views and the evidence supporting those views. Afterwards, the trial court determined that, even applying the "clear and convincing evidence" standard -- the highest burden of proof used in civil cases -- the evidence showed that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. from abstractappeal.com I suggest you visit this site

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#36)
    by scarshapedstar on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:29:12 AM EST
    Wow, they actually agreed to an en banc?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:43:58 AM EST
    They agreed to waive the filing deadline from last Saturday

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:48:01 AM EST
    Tex, I don't see anything in that article that implies that Michael Schiavo ever denied her communion. The statement that he "allowed" it only indicates that he allowed it, not that he denied it and then allowed it. And even the local parish priest, who has doctrinal jurisdiction over the chaplain says that she can receive communion without eating the communion wafer in a practice they call "spiritual communion", and that's what Terri's been receiving for the p[ast several years. Just because the Schindlers and their priest want to do it in a particular way now does not mean that it can't be done at all. And in regards to a court order, the only thing I can find in the decisions is a statement by Judge Greer that a "date certain" had to be set for the removal of life support so that "last rites" and other matters could be coordinated. In no way could that be interpreted to mean that Michael Schiavo denied Terri communion.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:51:49 AM EST
    Actually, WhatALoad presents the gist of the case: it was litigated, and the court determined that Michael Schiavo is Terri's legal guardian and that Mrs. Schiavo would not want life prolonging measures undertaken on her behalf. None of the subsequent legal wrangling or the inflammation of public opinion changes those basic facts. One might consider it a tragedy and/or travesty that she is being denied food and water until death, or consider it an onerous but necessary process, but until such time as Michael Schiavo relents and relinquishes his guardianship to the Schindlers, which ain't gonna happen, all efforts to save Terri Schiavo might be well-intentioned, or not but are ultimately futile.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 12:01:10 PM EST
    Wrong D. Mr. Schiavo has no authority to put back the tube. Michael lacks the power to undo the court order determining Terri's wishes and requiring the removal of her feeding tube. He did not make the decision and cannot unmake it. The court made the decision on Terri's behalf.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 12:23:55 PM EST
    Court turns down the Schindler's request for a new hearing.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 12:27:07 PM EST
    According to CNN the court of appeals has turned down the appeal.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 12:50:59 PM EST
    Can anyone answer this...how can she receive communion? I thought if any food or drink was placed in her mouth she would choke. It's been awhile since I've been in chuch, but isn't communion still bread and wine?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 12:57:01 PM EST
    "Posted by Michael Ditto: "Actually Jackson comes down on the same side as Randall Terry on just about every issue but affirmative action." What an idiotic lie. "He uses the same language in regards to gay people as Jerry Falwell--"love the sinner, hate the sin." To WHOM does he use this language? "Jackson and Falwell represent the left wing of the religious right," Jackson is not a part of the religious right. He doesn't, however, separate himself from those sinners either. "given how much Jackson likes to see his face on TV and hear his own voice, I'm not surprised in the least." You keep slandering him with this 'how much was he paid' LIE. He is there because the parents invited him. He is a Christian reverend, so it isn't surprising that he has religious views. It is also not surprising, if you don't know him, that he is saying mollifying things to people who are suffering. This 'balm on the waters' behavior of Rev. Jackson is not surprising. You wingers take the opportunity to continue your slander of him, and take the heat off the real idiots who cooked this crisis up. Meanwhile, Jackson makes the point that right-to-life people need to "bring the same passion to world hunger." Wow, wonder how much he was 'paid' to say that, eh?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:32:46 PM EST
    The blog Abstract Appeal, created by a lawyer in Florida, provides an information page dedicated to the Schiavo case with particular attention paid to Florida State laws and most particularly the 11th Circuit. Presentation of the major issues of the case there aims to strive for objectivity in this often highly-subjectively-charged and opinionated controversy involving life and death. The "main page" of the site has news updates and some pertinent commentary on the legal status of advanced directives ("living wills").

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:38:11 PM EST
    The 11th Circuit has denied the Schindlers' request for another hearing.
    The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta turned down the request by the Florida woman's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler. Two judges on the 11-member court dissented. Late yesterday, the court allowed the Schindlers more time to file their request, lifting what had been a March 26 deadline.


    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:41:35 PM EST
    MSNBC has some more details here.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#49)
    by desertswine on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:48:07 PM EST
    Can anyone answer this...how can she receive communion?
    I believe her communion has been reported to have consisted of "a drop of wine."

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:49:55 PM EST
    kdog: Can anyone answer this...how can she receive communion? I read that her last communion was given to her via her feeding tube before the feeding tube was removed: she will receive last rites when she is close to death.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:56:55 PM EST
    What a Load- "Rather than make the decision himself, Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts" Because he wanted her dead. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been a "disagreement". ".... asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements Terri made to him...." And never brought up or mentioned in the 8 years prior, and repudiated by Michael himself on CNN. ".... and others," You are referring to Mr Schiavo's relatives. Some of Terri's close friends dispute this. ".. he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures." Therein lies the problem. The Judiciary is executing someone it "determined" wants to die, despite a degree of uncertainity as to the Terri's wishes, and despite the family's willingness to assume responsibility for her. I do not agree that the court should find that way, it is reprehensible. " The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures." With a certain level of evidence to this effect. " Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case." And the Courts have decided to starve someone to death without any clear direction from the person they are killing. You spin your arguments very well, I might add. But your moniker is more of an apt description of what is following it. You should consider sales or running for office.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 02:05:39 PM EST
    "clear and convincing evidence" standard -- the highest burden of proof used in civil cases -- the evidence showed that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures." and her parents are on record saying even if she had a written health care directive they would have opposed it. There is no question that Mr. Schiavo followed every appropriate avenue and the parents have had every opportunity to make their case. People disputing it now will never be convinced. They refuse to believe the facts of the case. They are enabled in their stupidity by a media that gives credence to ever lie uttered by the parents in the wild hope someone will storm the hospice.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 02:26:35 PM EST
    you are right....the media is just itchin' for a riot....for vigilantes to storm the hospice. I feel the most sorrow for the other families who have dying relatives in that hospice, whose final days with their loved ones have become even more upsetting by the nutjobs outside. By the way, I wish a wider shot of the protestors would be shown. As I surf the cable news stations, I see the same few people and the same few signs. The nation should know that there are far fewer protestors there than the media would have us believe!

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 04:00:26 PM EST
    It's all been debunked, Michael Schiavo has nothing to gain from Terri's death and the record shows he was a good husband, so the rest is spin. Talking points aside, I'm concerned if everything medically possible has been done to save Terri (I sure as h*ll hope so!). Correct me if I'm wrong but she went through only one CAT scan?? Assuming I'm right.. is one CT scan enough to prove that her brain is irrevocably damaged? Doesn't it takes at least a several CT's and MRI scans to prove a state of PVS? I'm just asking, because several neurologists seem to disagree.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:07:01 PM EST
    What a Load, Thanks for the link to the Schiavo chronology. A close reading of it shows that (contrary to what you asserted), nothing I said was false at all. Schiavo waited years before alleging that Terri wanted to die. Nothing in the chronology contradicts this factual statement. Schiavo only came forward with the news that Terri wanted to die after she received a substantial settlement. Nothing in your chronology disputes this factual statement. In fact, one of the 1998 entries in the chronology to which you referred me states that Terri's guardian ad litem believed that Mr. Schiavo's position was motivated by his desire to obtain control over that money. Mr. Schiavo only came forward with the news that Terri wanted to die after beginning to live with another woman. Nothing in the chronology contradicts this. Before you accuse me of being a liar again, you should look in the mirror.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:14:23 PM EST
    $1-million offered to end husband's role

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:47:23 PM EST
    The difference is -he has previously said she would not want to be kept in a vegetative state but he did not believe she was in one --it took years for him to realize she was. And he was not in a relationship when the court originally decided to remove the feeding tube Everything you say is false and the worst part is you know it. And of course he did not make the decision the court did and he cannot undo the decision made by the court

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:53:02 PM EST
    No name: How about a Feb. 17, 2004 speech at Harvard, when Jesse Jackson criticized the comparison of the gay rights movement with the civil rights movement by saying "some slave masters were gay, gays were never called three-fifths human in the Constitution and they did not require the Voting Rights Act to have the right to vote," and that "in my culture, marriage is a man-woman relationship." Or his selection of James Meeks to succeed him at the helm of the Rainbow/PUSH coalition, because he is the only black Democratic legislator to have voted against every gay rights bill every to have come up for a vote. And when did I ever say anything about Jackson being paid? Who's making the inaccurate comments (or slanderous, idiotic lies, as you call them) now? Jesse Jackson does everything he can to distance himself from the gay community, while Rev. Al Sharpton, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Coretta Scott King, and just about every other civil rights veteran, religious or otherwise, are unabashedly in support of equal rights for gays and lesbians. And it doesn't matter to WHOM he uses that language, but that he uses it at all. Are you suggesting that it would be OK to make racist assertions as long as it was in front of the right audience?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:12:33 PM EST
    marty - Here is the money. "Bushnell said she has been paid $80,309 since getting involved in the case in 1993. George Felos, who was hired by Michael Schiavo about the time he began the effort to remove his wife's feeding tube in 1998, has been paid $358,434, according to Bushnell." If you want more info, forget. There is a seal on the info. Load writes "Jesse Jackson LOL how much was he paid to appear..." Got any proof on that? No? I didn't think you did.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:28:09 PM EST
    PPJ this link is for you This is a site that has factual information about the case The Schlindlers lawyers have collected millions but we don't ahve a court ordered audit of that No conversation with you is possible because you refuse to deal in the truth. As for Jesse Jackson- the mother asked him to come and the legal fund paid by selling video tapes of Schiavo paid for his expenses.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:29:30 PM EST
    PPJ like his link doesn't work

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#62)
    by BigTex on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 08:16:52 PM EST
    Michael Ditto - good call. I should have been more clear about the articles I posted. The one posted wasn't the one that said she was not being allowed to receive Communion. It was the article pointing out that a court order was issued to allow her to receive Communion and Last Rights on Easter. I apologise for the confusion. Regarding Communion in a Species (bread or wine or both) versus Spiritual Communion you have a good point in that Spiritual Communion is an option for those who are unable to receive Communion in a Species, however, Comunion in a Species is preferred, which leads to Kdog's question The priest administeres a few drops of wine via an eyedropper and a flake of bread, which was an insufficient amount to cause her to choke. As far as why administer Communon after last rights it is a two aprt answer. 1) Last Rights are good, but any sin since the administration of Last Rights can condemn the soul if they are mortal sins, or increase the length of time in Purgatory (this is a Catholic belief, no need to get into the Purgatory exists or not debate). 2) Communion grants Gods Graces. Even if technically unnecessary, as may well be the case since it is unlikely Terri can sin anymore, Communion is still desirable as it imbues the departing soul with God's Grace. What good does that do in the light of Last Rights? Who knows, that's beyond the metaphysics I'm comfortable talking about, still receiving Grace in ones last days/hours isn't harmful, and can do no harm.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 08:45:23 PM EST
    Dearest No Name - Just tried it and it works fine for me. Load - From your link: "more judicial attention, more medical attention, more executive attention, and more "due process," than any other guardianship case in history." A couple of thoughts. First, that is an opinion, because we have no way of knowing. Secondly, so what? Thirdly, the key issue is that there has been no new review of new facts, just "due process." But maybe you had rather have your opinions prechewed. et al - Group calls for Judge Greer's impeachment. "The foundation pointed out that Florida Statute 744.3215 (Rights of Persons Determined Incapacitated) requires that incapacitated people cannot be deprived of food and water. "Ordering that Terri Schiavo may not receive nutrition or hydration naturally is against the law, in the opinion of the Foundation," it said in a statement." And the situation isn't getting better. "We will do everything to enforce the power and authority of the Congress and no little judge sitting in a state district court in Florida is going to usurp the authority of Congress," DeLay added. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, echoed DeLay's concerns. "Federal criminal law protects witnesses called before official Congressional committee proceedings from anyone who may obstruct or impede a witness’ attendance or testimony," Frist explained. "Anyone who violates this law is subject to criminal fines and imprisonment," Frist said. And from the constutution, Article 1, Section 8: "To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;"

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#64)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:03:44 PM EST
    When does John Ashcroft get there?

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#65)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:13:44 PM EST
    Those nuts think we supplied a tribunal. All they need is a cross.

    Re: 11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in (none / 0) (#67)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 04:30:00 PM EST
    DA - The comments contend that he ignored existing law. Me? I'll just let the courts decide.

    11th Circuit Agrees to Consider New Hearing in Terri Schiavo Case | 65 comments (65 topical)