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38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:14:13 PM EST
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The military has announced it will free 38 detainees held at Guantanamo. Seems they weren't terrorists after all. So sorry, never mind.

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    38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano | 35 comments (35 topical)
    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 12:09:25 AM EST
    Bush made a major mistake with all these prisoners. In fact, it seems prisoner problems have been the biggest disaster of his administration. He should have did what Bill Clinton did in Bosnia, drop bombs on them. Take no prisoners. Dead men tell no tales (and cause less problems for Presidents.)

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 02:31:03 AM EST
    Samantha Power, in Genocide: A Problem from Hell credits the Bosnia campaign with saving hundreds of thousands of lives. As for DMTNT, at the end of the set-up Gulf War, US forces slaughtered retreating Iraqi conscripts -- a war crime. That didn't happen under Clinton, whose primary crime against humanity was the crime of omission in the face of Rwanda. The main reason that omission happened was that Republicans, who have now proven what they'll do to undemocratically seize power, were attacking him to the point that the political risk of loss of US soldier lives was untenable. Now Bush has ruined the lives of tens of thousands of American and Allied servicemen and women. Clinton lost 17 in Somalia, and he was reamed for it. Bush is just picking his teeth with 10x as many's bones, and the Rs do NOTHING.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 04:25:25 AM EST
    Paul, we were original told the Bosnian death count was 250,000 to 350,000. Now it looks like it was really in the 100,000 to 125,000 range. With such wild fluctuations in actual deaths, any estimate of lives saved is unreliable. An estimate of "hundreds of thousands of lives" saved is laughably ridiculous.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 04:33:10 AM EST
    As for DMTNT, at the end of the set-up Gulf War, US forces slaughtered retreating Iraqi conscripts -- a war crime. Paul, with all due respect, I simply don't understand why you think the above is a war crime. Could you please explain?

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#5)
    by roger on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 04:40:47 AM EST
    Attacking people who are unarmed and attempting to surrender is a war crime

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 04:59:57 AM EST
    Which was it? Were they retreating or attempting to surrender?

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 05:24:22 AM EST
    PIL - You are as irrational as ever. The destruction of retreating armies is as old as mankind, and is the prime reason soldiers are trained to fight as a disciplined force. And history is replete with retreating foes who, when not pursued and killed, reorgnized, turned and defeated the other army. All the Iraqis had to do was surrender. Soldier - You will find that everything the US does is a war crime to Paul, and everyone who disagrees is a racist

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 05:35:58 AM EST
    PPJ, in truth, anyone who supports the current Social Security system is a racist. And, I know that Paul supports it.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 05:51:02 AM EST
    yeah shame on those Iraqis for not just laying down when their homeland was invaded and their children killed.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 07:38:50 AM EST
    Since they have been released, they must not be terrorists. Some kind of due process could have figured that out months or years ago. Though I'm sure these men have an axe to grind now.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 07:53:42 AM EST
    Anybody wonder why Dubya et al don't want to accountable to the International Court? After years in detention, what is the explanation? Is the press hustling to get the story on these 38? Anybody asking about their treatment at Gitmo. I know they never had it so good, but it would be good to hear it from their voices. Any chance that the treatment of these individuals constitute violations of the conventions and treaties we have signed (and are thus part of US law)? Connect the dots. War crimes. We have become a rogue nation. An evil empire is reborn.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 08:12:34 AM EST
    Any interviews or public debriefings before they are "released to their home countries?" Come on, all you who have been so supportive of this illegal detention, how do you reconcile this initial release? And note, I say initial release. Connect the dots. There is another story on this site about stopping access by the press to the process for determining who gets released. Connect the dots. The last thing that our administration wants is for the American people to hear and really understand what has been going on at Gitmo. And keep in mind, Gitmo is the visible part of the potential iceberg. How many ghost detainees are there? Where are they? What is being done to them and how can it be justified under our laws. Don't give me the Dirty Harry scenarios, that's a movie and I am talking about the law of this land. True patriots will defend the principle that we are a country of laws, not a country of men.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 08:40:44 AM EST
    Look, at a minimum, these people were fighting for the Taliban, who (if you don't remember), were giving a safe haven to Al-Queda, who lives to literally destroy the United States; to kill us all. Maybe they are just soliders. Maybe it is time for them to go home. But the sympathy the people on this board have for those who (at a minimum) fight for those who want to murder us all, astounds me. Priorities people. This is not a game. Bush is not the enemy. Al-Queda and other terrorits (and terrorist states) are. Come on.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 09:00:26 AM EST
    Why was a deal made? or was it the boys were not taken under arms?

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 09:07:16 AM EST
    But the sympathy the people on this board have for those who (at a minimum) fight for those who want to murder us all, astounds me.
    They don't want to kill me, just the threatening heretical government running out of control in my country.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 09:19:20 AM EST
    They don't want to kill me, just the threatening heretical government running out of control in my country. Marty, I got news for you. You could have voted for Ralph Nader, and you're still on the hit list.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 09:26:06 AM EST
    V2Marty comments They don't want to kill me, just the threatening heretical government running out of control in my country. Have you ever heard of the Barbary Pirates?

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 09:45:07 AM EST
    I will never understand this irrational fear that leads people to support the indefinite detention of others w/o due process, and to support the erosion of our liberty, and to support the invasion of a country that was no threat to us (which led to thousands upon thousands of innocents being murdered), and so on and so on and so on. 8 fundamentalist crazies, supported by a fundamentalist crazy terror group committed an especially heinous act of terrorism. This does not "change everything". I'll never understand and I've given up trying. You are more likely to be hit by a bus, get over yourself.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 10:23:17 AM EST
    Look, at a minimum, these people were fighting for the Taliban, who (if you don't remember), were giving a safe haven to Al-Queda, who lives to literally destroy the United States; to kill us all.
    . Actually, there is a documentary out on a former Al-Queda "member" who was sent by the CIA to Gitmo to fraternize and gather information about terrorists. He was very, very credible and very, very traumatized to the point of being suicidal - even though he was known to be an operative. His take was that "approximately 10% of folks in Gitmo are actually Al-Queda. The worst mistake the Americans did was to offer a bounty to those 'turning in' terrorists. As a result, most of the folks there are either drug addicts, general street people, people who have mental health problems or who had enemies who profited off of them. They don't even know why they're here." Are you really proud of that, soldier? Did you know that most civilized countries (including the Germans in WWII) took prisoners because it was understood in the old days that the soldier fighting on the ground was a political pawn who most likely had no choice - therefore neutralizing his fighting capability was enough. Soldier, I don't know if your fighting experience is so great that you've become immune to any compassion for life or if it is so little that you think bloodlust is patriotic, but I don't support your position at all. War is hell and all that but it is not license to rape,pillage and burn. P.S. that doesn't make me a wimp either.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 10:33:55 AM EST
    Good words mfox.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 10:43:53 AM EST
    His take was that "approximately 10% of folks in Gitmo are actually Al-Queda. The worst mistake the Americans did was to offer a bounty to those 'turning in' terrorists. As a result, most of the folks there are either drug addicts, general street people, people who have mental health problems or who had enemies who profited off of them. They don't even know why they're here." Come on Fox. Are you seriously trying to posit that 90% of the Gitmo people were incident by-standers hanging out on the streets who got picked up by accident? Please????????? And I said they were likely Taliban soliders, not necessarily Al-Queda, although both are possible. Jesus,where the f' do you people come up with this crap? 90% of the gitmo were incident by-standers??? UGGGGHHHH.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 11:02:20 AM EST
    mfox comments Soldier, I don't know if your fighting experience is so great that you've become immune to any compassion for life or if it is so little that you think bloodlust is patriotic, but I don't support your position at all. War is hell and all that but it is not license to rape,pillage and burn. P.S. that doesn't make me a wimp either Boy, I don’t know what I said to bring that on, but I’ll try to answer your question. If I am wrong in my position, it is not from a lack of compassion, it’s from a lack of knowledge. Take Iraq. I assume you believe we should send food to Iraq, when their people are hungry. I believe that, too. I assume you believe we should send medicine to Iraq, when their people are sick. I believe that, too. In fact, we probably both believe that we should send them all sorts of material things, if we reasonable can. We are a rich nation and can afford it. But I don’t think that is enough. I think we need to send them what they need to improve their living conditions, however THEY feel the conditions should be improved. I don’t think we should send them beans, if they want steak. What can we give them that could possibly do that? I believe the ONLY thing we can give them that can do that, is liberty. In fact, I feel we are obligated to give them liberty, just as many people feel we are obligated to give them food. The cost to give them liberty is high, both to our country and to Iraq. But, in the long run, the cost of not doing it, is even higher. And yes, the liberty we give them, won’t be perfect. Neither is the food.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 11:21:36 AM EST
    Soldier, You are delusional. The invasion of Iraq was never about liberating the Iraqi people. The are not liberated now. They are constantly on their guard. They have sporadic electricity and water services. Their hospitals are severely understaffed and undersupplied. Parents are afraid to send their children to schools, especially unescorted. Civil war could break out any time. Yet the privatization of the oil industry continues.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 11:21:38 AM EST
    mfox, sorry. I just realised you were probably refering to my comment at the top of this page. That comment was actually a poor attempt at humor.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 11:27:32 AM EST
    I very likely am delusional. That doesn’t change the facts. In 2002, conditions in Iraq were WORSE than those you just described.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 02:30:49 PM EST
    mfox - What is the name of the documentary? Who made the documentary? Who has vetted it besides you? Please, you make claims but offer no proof. V2marty writes - " They don't want to kill me, just the threatening heretical government running out of control in my country." Congrats on the dumbest statement of the week. Have you watched? Have you read? Have you been pulling a Rip van Winkle????

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#27)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 09:57:40 PM EST
    Soldier, You are wrong again. Why don't you email a resident of Baghdad and ask her?

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 04:58:50 AM EST
    MB mistakenly said:
    Look, at a minimum, these people were fighting for the Taliban
     Sorry, mate, but you are quite simply WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Where is your evidence of their guilt? What court found these people guilty? Who testified against them? Who represented them in court? Because without all this you cannot claim that they are Taliban fighters. How do you know what they are? Who are you to decide their innocence or guilt? Do you really believe that they are guilty just because your government tells you so? The idea behind "innocent until proven guilty" is that it applies to all people in all circumstances. In particular it doesn't restrict this assumption of innocence to those of the American nationality. Or perhaps it does for you. This is the whole problem with Guantanamo. You clearly just don't understand the issue being discussed here. Try harder, please.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 06:51:06 AM EST
    MB wrote: MB mistakenly said: Look, at a minimum, these people were fighting for the Taliban As Will Rogers said, it's not the things he don't know that bother me, it the things he knows for sure that just aren't true. If they were fighting for the Taliban and that is the reason for their detention, they are entitled to treatment under the Geneva Conventions. There must have been lots of Germans in the 1930s and 40s who think like PPJ and MB. Which is say, not too deeply. My country tis of thee, uber alles.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 08:10:59 AM EST
    As Will Rogers said, it's not the things he don't know that bother me, it the things he knows for sure that just aren't true.
    I didn't know that Will knew PPJ :) PPJ, at the risk of being an idiot for even engaging your where's the proof diatribe (you always ignore the proof when it's presented and offer none of your own) I'll try to find the link right now. All interested should hear this kid's story. Very compelling as I said.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 09:31:27 AM EST
    Che, I find it interesting that your Iraqi "resident" would choose to host her site from Mountain View, CA., the home of her "occupiers." Don't take my word for it, do a whois search. That doesn’t mean that I am totally discounting her site. Only that I find it suspect. I’ll take a look at it when I get the chance. Thanks for the info.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 09:35:51 AM EST
    Here's the link PPJ. I recommend all check this kid out. No, the CIA isn't proclaiming him one of theirs, but I find his story both credible and compelling. SON OF AL QUEDA The story of a Canadian citizen who grew up among Bin Laden's children and was groomed to be a terrorist - but instead ended up working for the CIA.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 11:00:37 AM EST
    Of course I do, Dark Avenger. Why doesn't she go to Egypt? It just surprises me, almost as much as if she had went to Israel. Anyplace else in the world, including England, would make more sense. France would make A LOT of sense. I equate this with a devout Christian choosing to host his Christian website on a server known for hosting porn sites. In my original post, I considered making a snide remark about Democrats funding the site. I didn't, because I would sincerely like an answer to this question. Again, in my mind, the server's location doesn't negate the site, it only make it suspect.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#35)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 05:02:23 PM EST
    Soldier, Nice dodge.

    Re: 38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 06:53:55 PM EST
    I have to agree

    38 Detainees to be Freed From Guantano | 35 comments (35 topical)