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Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 08:41:29 PM EST
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The right-wing blogosphere can now wipe that egg off their keyboards....for weeks they've been pedaling conjecture that the GOP talking points memo about Terri Schiavo that Raw Story published and countless liberal blogs, us included, linked to, was a hoax.

Now, the author of the memo has 'fessed up: He's legal counsel to Florida Senator Mel Martinez. The Washington Post reports:

The legal counsel to Sen. Mel Martinez (R-Fla.) admitted yesterday that he was the author of a memo citing the political advantage to Republicans of intervening in the case of Terri Schiavo, the senator said in an interview last night. Brian Darling, a former lobbyist for the Alexander Strategy Group on gun rights and other issues, offered his resignation and it was immediately accepted, Martinez said.

America Blog has more.

Watch the right try to spin themselves out of this one. Shorter Powerline: It depends on the definition of "Republican official" and "party leader." (Sen. Martinez doesn't count because he'd only been in office three months and could hardly be described as a party leader.) And don't blame us, blame ABC and the Post. Don't you just love the way the right accepts responsibility?

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    Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real | 43 comments (43 topical)
    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#1)
    by Darryl Pearce on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 09:46:06 PM EST
    When--oh, when will they get their "overzealous workers" under control?

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 11:24:07 PM EST
    Definitely more heinous than the starvation murder of Terri Schiavo.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:38:31 AM EST
    Funny. The wingers have been blathering on for weeks about some grand Democrat conspiracy to make the GOP look opportunistic, and whaddya know... I also find it funny that Martinez's staffer couldn't spell Terri's name right, or get the correct bill number.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#4)
    by Pete Guither on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:43:07 AM EST
    Bendito, If you must drag us along on your own trip to use Terri for your personal political purposes (just like the GOP), then at least get the terminology right. You should have said: "Definitely more heinous than the dehydration murder of Terri Schiavo." I mean, really, how can you expect to get any respect as a troll when you don't even misrepresnt things properly?

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#5)
    by bad Jim on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 01:26:50 AM EST
    The effusions of the 101st Chairborne Division are so predictable that they're actually comfy.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 06:17:03 AM EST
    For shame GOP...for shame.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 06:25:53 AM EST
    Gee, after the bogus CBS memos, and the virulence with which the lefty bloggers defended them, I wonder where we would have gotten the idea that this memo was a fake too? Maybe you guys can give us tips on how to get egg off a keyboard.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 07:22:03 AM EST
    I wonder where we would have gotten the idea that this memo was a fake too?
    Um a vast Dan Rather conspiracy???

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 07:23:01 AM EST
    Jim and Smaack, you really aren't as clever and witty as you think you are. Sure for Repuglicans you are, but that really isn't saying too much. It wasn't a fake memo, your side will exploit human suffering just to consolidate more power, and the American people are starting to see you guys for the small, hate filled Brown Shirts you are. Way to spend all that political capital on a bum deal!

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 07:58:06 AM EST
    Wow Sherman - it took you seven whole lines before you got around to calling me a Nazi for trying to keep the state from starving a helpless woman to death. Funny - I seem to recall that it was the Nazis that made a national pastime of starving people to death. In any event I'll leave it to history to decide which was more heinous - a staffer for a first term Senator drafting a stupid memo, or a major network news operation relying on faked memos to concoct a bogus story in an attempt to sway a Presidential election.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:00:58 AM EST
    Of course, before Martinez was a senator, he was Bush's hand-picked cabinet official for HUD. And during the Schiavo nonsense, the three amigos of the GOP senate were Martinez, Santorum, and Frist. He may not have seniority in the Senate, but he clearly has connections and influence.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#12)
    by roy on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:04:03 AM EST
    I don't read all the Righty blogs, but it seems like they only really harped on two points: 1: The memo was attributed to Republican "party leaders" or "officials" without evidence for such 2: The Post denied making such an attribution Both those claims are still born out by evidence. Claim #1 doubly so, the attribution was made without evidence and it turned out to be incorrect. Accusations of fakery or Democratic trickery were limited to very fringe blogs (of those I read) or deliberately presented as idle speculation. So, I don't see any egg. Links to contradict me?

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:53:49 AM EST
    roy.... So, I don't see any egg. How about Sandy Berger? You know, the guy that stoled documents concerning the Clinton administrations knowledge of 9/11 & terror oganizations and then burned them? That's HUGE egg.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:59:56 AM EST
    List of Republican morons currently wiping the egg off their face

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:11:59 AM EST
    Mel Martinez is a pretty big fish in FL GOP politics. I'd call him a party leader.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:14:47 AM EST
    Wow Sherman - it took you seven whole lines before you got around to calling me a Nazi for trying to keep the state from starving a helpless woman to death. FYI, it wasn't the state, it was her husband. And she wasn't starved, she was dehydrated. And if assisted suicide were legal, she wouldn't have had to suffer.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:17:21 AM EST
    When I first heard of Martinez, back when he was with HUD, I asked a friend in Florida if he knew anything about the dude. He said he's a big deal in FL. He's like Tom DeLay is in TX. He holds a lot of sway among state Republican legislators. Don't know if it's true, but that's what I was told. That would make him a leader to me.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#18)
    by Adept Havelock on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:27:38 AM EST
    6 eggs over easy, coming right up: Only fringe blogs, huh roy? Fringe like: The Wash. Times Check out Egghead Sen. Robert F.Bennet(R) in this Washington Times Article A link Taken from Newsmax to Propaganda Matrix Formerly Egg shaped Rush Limbaugh weighs in (OK. Some "fringe") Mother Hen wannabe Michelle Malkin The Humpty-Dumpties at Powerline And a nice Accuracy in Media post that ties it all together, using simple words for wingnuts still in denial. With all those eggs, better watch your Cholesterol. Nihilistic beat me to it, but here's the links for the wingnuts who don't want to go to John's site.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:30:52 AM EST
    "Links to contradict me?" Uh yeah, buddy, why don't you check out this very comprehensive list of quotes from all the completely delusional Republican wackjobs who insisted that the talking points memo was another dirty trick by the Democrats and then get back to us when you're a little more informed... [link deleted, must be in html format]

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:36:30 AM EST
    "FYI, it wasn't the state, it was her husband" Which he could not have done without the cooperation, approval and assistance of the state. Thus see this story. "And she wasn't starved, she was dehydrated." Do you really think that makes a difference? Would the Holocaust have been less shocking if the Nazis had simply dehydrated 8 million Jews? "And if assisted suicide were legal, she wouldn't have had to suffer" Be careful - if you don't believe that witholding food and water from someone who is unable to feed herself is "assisted suicide", then the only other thing you can call it is murder.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:39:14 AM EST
    Bah - here's the link from above: Here.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#22)
    by Adept Havelock on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:43:39 AM EST
    Smaack- For future consideration, if you want to be taken as a serious troll around here, you might find a better card to play than "the other guy did it too.". That argument is weaker than my late grandmothers afternoon tea.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 10:07:14 AM EST
    Gee that's really great advice Adept. I'll try to keep it in mind. But my point was not simply that "you guys did it too." My point was that in recent history the Left has proven itself ready, willing and able to falsify documents to advance its political ends, so it was not paranoid or beyond the pale for us to consider the possibility that in this case you might have done it again.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#24)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 10:27:20 AM EST
    From the Washington Times: "Senator Martinez has never seen the memo and condemns its sentiments," spokeswoman Kerry Feehery said. "No one in our office has seen it, nor had anything to do with its creation."

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#25)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 11:21:53 AM EST
    Smaack - and do you really expect us to believe that the contents of the memo are not standard GOP procedure these days? Which is more likely: GOP kisses some more fundie a** or vast left-wing conspiracy. I think I know which way Occam's Razor cuts on this one.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 11:36:16 AM EST
    "And she wasn't starved, she was dehydrated." Do you really think that makes a difference? Would the Holocaust have been less shocking if the Nazis had simply dehydrated 8 million Jews?
    If you're so worried about facism infiltrating the U.S. (an ultra right-wing philosophy), Terri Shiavo is the last place to look. Try Brandon Mayfield. Why can't they ever "come for the wing-nuts" first? Oh yeah. They depend on their apologist support to perpetrate their crimes against humanity.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:40:50 PM EST
    Star: what proof do you have that this is "standard GOP procedure"? So far as I know, the Shiavo case is unique - which is what made it news. Mfox - I would invite you to scroll up a bit to see where Sherman called me a "brownshirt" for comparing this situation to the CBS Memogate. It ain't US that cries "Nazi" every time we disagree with someone - its YOU.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:51:59 PM EST
    Smaak, I can go to todays threads and find three (that I can think of off hand) instances where Right wingers are calling democrats Nazis. If you don't believe me, challenge me to find them, with the price being a tip to TL. Hint: Ultra right is Facism, Ultra left is Communism.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 02:09:29 PM EST
    Smaak - If you guys werent so blatantly hypocritical in your "preciousness of life" stance,eg: Schiavo situation terrible,Iraqi kids blown to bits with cluster-bombs o.k,prisoners with grossly incompetant representation executed by Bush o.k etc Many more would probobly take you seriously. As stands now,you appear to be monkeys dancing to whatever talking-point tune of the week is being played.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 02:17:43 PM EST
    I will challenge you to defend that last point. The fact is, the only real difference between Hitlerism and Leninism/Stalinism is who owns the means of production. Under Leninism/Stalinism, the State owns the means of production, and directs centrally what is going to be produced by the state. Under National Socialism, the means of production remains in private hands, but is so thoroughly regulated that there is little practical difference between National Socialism and Stalinism. You guys have bought the exceedingly silly argument that there is a dichotomy between Soviet Socialism and National Socialism, while in truth suggesting that each represents the opposite side of the spectrum is like saying that the opposite of black is dark grey. The truth is that the conflict between Hitlerism and Stalisnism had more in common with the struggle between Menshevics and Bolshevics than it does with the struggle, say, between Greens and Libertarians. Hitlerism and Stalinism were kissing cousins - inalterably opposed to each other simply because each side saw the other as heretical. The only valid and meaningful political dichotomy that can be drawn is between totalitarian statism and anarchy. On that scale, German Nazisim and Soviet Communism will be snuggled up very neatly together. I don't particularly care whether you locate them on the right or the left, but to portray them as the opposite of each other is propagandistic and silly.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 02:23:36 PM EST
    That cuts both ways Jondee. For you, destroying life that is innocent but inconvenient, i.e. unwanted fetuses or spouses, is ok. But destroying life that has been adjudged guilty, i.e., murderers and rapists, is wrong. And the last Democrat President, as I recall, was more than willing to send troops into harms way and kill lots of people whose existence was inimicable to American interests - see Somolia, Kosovo, Haiti and... Iraq. So be careful about climbing up on your high horse - its very easy to toss allegations of hypocrisy right back at ya.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#32)
    by roy on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 03:47:24 PM EST
    Nihilistic and Adept Havelock, good job. You've convinced me that egg is, indeed, involved. I'm still defending Malkin, her criticisms were all focused on reports posted without adequate evidence, and the evidence wasn't out at the time. Others (who I should have remembered) jumped to conclusions and have some 'splaining to do.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 05:51:20 PM EST
    Smaak - Ive said many times that both parties are in varying depths in the pocket of those who fund them. We wont have something approaching a society where justice and long-term sustainability rather than selfish "interests" are main priorities,until we make some drastic but entirly feasible changes in the electoral process. Now explain to me how,once the technology developes,as it will,to keep anyone "alive" how will marshall the resources,moral and economic,to keep from being "murderers".

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#34)
    by Adept Havelock on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:09:39 PM EST
    Thank you kindly, Roy. In the words of the great Andrew Martin: "One is glad to have been of service". Smaak- I've seen lot's of outrage about Schiavo from you. Got any outrage to spare for Sun Hudson? After all, this infant's life support was removed under a law passed by GW Bush himself, back when he could spare time from Tex-ecutions. So much for the "if there's the slightest doubt, always err on the side of life" talking point. Anyone who's been paying attention can see that lots of people on the Right saying this voted against making DNA review for capital cases mandatory. A lovely double standard if there ever was one.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:54:16 PM EST
    The only valid and meaningful political dichotomy that can be drawn is between totalitarian statism and anarchy. On that scale, German Nazisim and Soviet Communism will be snuggled up very neatly together Wow. Where did you learn your Early 20th Century history, on the Discovery Channel? Amazing how dishonest definitional assumption can (intentionally) render words meaningless (revisionism). Your accuracy ends somewhere around your statement that both Stalin and Hitler were totalitarianists. The National Socialists were about as "Socialist" as the Federalists were proponents of Federalism. Your interchangable use of "Leninism" and "Stalinism" demonstrates a lack of understanding of the difference between the two, much less an understanding of either Marxism or German Nationalism. Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Pinochet, Batista, were all Fascists - all militant opportunists with no philosophy of government beyond the maintenance of their their individual rulership, not Socialists. Neither government was Socialist. The Mensheviks were the only real Socialists in Russia. The Leninists were Communist revolutionaries, but weren't Marxists. The Marxists wanted to be Communists, but would have settled for Socialism (or even Capitalism) at the time. Stalin was a Fascist and ended the Leninist's attempt to accelerate the adoption of Marxist Communism: he purged the Leninists and subdued the proletariat, that is to say the Soviets after Lenin's death. Stalin reinstated Kadet business ownership so as to allow industry to finance the growth of the Soviet Union. Their methods of coming to power/constituencies, the socio-economic class strata/workforce, the geo-political disjoints between German/Soviet cultures and their international boundaries, etc. All nuanced differences that dishonest Conservative propagandists don't have time to learn before spouting off.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:59:02 PM EST
    Sorry, Talk Left, but the Nazis come up on every thread and there is never an appropriate thread topic to correct the revisionists and be entirely on-topic.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 03:38:51 AM EST
    Adept - actually I'm not "outraged" at all about Shiavo. Merely interested in the moral and philosophical issues that her case raises about what we do with those in our society who are helpless, and who decides. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you will see that my point was not to start a topic about Shiavo (we've probably had enough of that, and she's dead so it doesn't much matter) or the nature of National Socialism - it was to suggest that lefty "outrage" over suggestions that the Shiavo memo was fake are somewhat misplaced given the left's willingness in the recent past to fake and then defend memos used in the election against Bush. It wasn't till Sherman decided to call me a Nazi that we got off on the other subjects.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 03:42:54 AM EST
    Tampa Student - I've read Mein Kampf - have you? If you had, you would understand that it is written entirely in language that Marx would have understood - the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoise. Regardless of your niggling distinctions, tell me - for the ordinary person on the street, what is the difference in terms of their liberty, individual dignity and personal autonomy between living in a fascist state and a communist state? I submit that there is none, and that if that is the case, then to suggest that one is the opposite of the other in any real sense is, as I said before, propagandistic and silly.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 04:03:19 AM EST
    Godwin's Law, ladies, gentlemen, and rightwingers. Godwin's Law.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 05:50:54 AM EST
    Appreciated, Tristero, but if that comment is directed at me it is misdirected. It only took 9 posts into this thread for the Nazi references to begin, aimed at me by a lefty who apparently didn't appreciate an alternative viewpoint invading his little cocoon.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#41)
    by Adept Havelock on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 11:02:20 AM EST
    Merely interested in the moral and philosophical issues that her case raises about what we do with those in our society who are helpless, and who decides
    OK. I'm still waiting for your response to the Sun Hudson case (links in my previous post).

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 11:46:34 AM EST
    Adept - you're right - I don't like that one much either. Hard to see much of a distinction between the two cases really. So is your argument that Texas was wrong to pull the plug against mom's wishes, or that Florida was wrong to do it? Or is your argument...hmm, let me see... as someone here wrote earlier: For future consideration, if you want to be taken as a serious troll around here, you might find a better card to play than "the other guy did it too.". That argument is weaker than my late grandmothers afternoon tea.

    Re: Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 10:17:59 PM EST
    As usual, the thread is over before we get down to the crux. The 2 second response, since no one is going to read it, is that (1) I've read Mein Kampf, (2) there is a lot more going on in Hitler's pre-1930 mind than class warfare, (3) as I alluded, freedom was relative depending on one's socio-economic-political-cultural status, as in any culture, and (4) I hadn't even begun detailing those "niggling" points. Your comparison of Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto is pretty simple minded and shallow. Respected historians/authors/editors Fainsod and Shirer disagree with you.

    Egg on Their Keyboards: Schiavo GOP Memo Real | 43 comments (43 topical)