home

Wednesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 06:27:32 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

We haven't had one of these in a while and I'll be off at court and the jail today. The floor is your's.

< Right Wing Groups Break Ranks Over Filibuster | Justice Dept. Hasn't Complied With Senate Request for Patriot Act Info >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Wednesday Open Thread | 50 comments (50 topical)
    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 06:59:01 AM EST
    If you want a laugh, check out The Onion Weekly Dispatch

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 07:18:11 AM EST
    If you live in or around the 7th District of New Jersey and want to elect a Democrat to Congress there, we're starting a new PAC called Blue 7th PAC. Right now we are represented by Congressman Mike Ferguson, a right wing conservative Republican who has a reported 94 percent pro-Bush voting record. He also has the largest fine in FEC history and is the largest recipient of money from Tom DeLay. We've launched a website at http://www.dumpmike.com and will be launching http://www.blue7th.com in a couple weeks. (We need some web help, particularly when it comes to design, if anyone is interested.) If you live in the 7th, please sign up and get involved. The more active people we have the more likely we will be to take back the 7th in 2006!

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 07:20:09 AM EST
    Heaven less opulent than the Vatican! DEA seizes suspension bridge! Good stuff mfox, gotta love The Onion!

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 08:26:46 AM EST
    Today was funnier than usual, kdog.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 08:33:40 AM EST
    Check out Bush's secret iPod playlist.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 08:37:08 AM EST
    Check out Billmon's post on the playlist. Brilliant.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 10:26:31 AM EST
    On yesterday's Fresh Air on NPR, Terri interviewed Bob Dole about his upcoming book. When asked about Trent Lott, he responded that he can't comment on something when he doesn't know the facts, and he doesn't know the facts because the facts have been published in the NY Times which is "part and parcel of the Democratic Party, and some would say NPR is as well." Therefore anything published in the NY Times is false, a premise which he repeated a couple of times. On the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush: Dole says that 260 veterans can't be lying, therefore whatever they had to say was absolutely true. Even though he says he considers Kerry a friend, he says that Kerry faked injuries for three purple hearts so that he could get out of Vietnam. On the judiciary: Dole says it's not partisan, that there are activist judges on both sides, and that they deserve the full wrath of the legislature.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 10:30:51 AM EST
    Oh and Terri responded to his NPR jab with one of her own. She asked him if he thought that any question asked of him was out of political bias. I don't have the wording right, but it stung pretty well the way she delivered it. And all of her questions were pretty softball for the most part, just asking him what he thought or felt on this issue and that issue. It's not like he was lashing out because she had him backed into a corner. He just wanted to take a characteristic stab at NPR while simultaneously using them to promote his book.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 10:33:56 AM EST
    Does anybody think Newt Gingrich's recent rebuke of Tom DeLay is anything other than a hackney ploy to play to the middle for the 2008 presidential campaign? This is his new campaign slogan: Sucks less than Tom DeLay.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 10:48:35 AM EST
    Anybody heard from Cliff lately? Has the cajun cochon dropped off the radar?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 10:58:43 AM EST
    Mfox, The Onion had a fantastic diatribe by the 9/11 hijackers, who ended up in Haites instead of paradise. Apparently they were quite surprised and disappointed in their final destination.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 11:14:45 AM EST
    I heard from Cliff yesterday. He's just been busy with work stuff, he'll be back.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Beck on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 11:28:24 AM EST
    Eric Rudolph pled guilty today to bombing an abortion clinic, killing a police officer and injuring a nurse. He pled guilty to avoid a trial and possible death sentence. Would that be the definition of irony - to be executed for bombing an abortion clinic?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 12:38:37 PM EST
    I'll take it one step further, Beck.
    Would that be the definition of irony - to be executed for bombing an abortion clinic?
    I would say the ultimate definition of irony would be to be executed for having an abortion.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 02:01:09 PM EST
    TL, thanks for the update on Cliff. When you get 'of a certain age' and start to see friends fall by the wayside you start to miss even the acquaintances you argue with;-)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 02:07:05 PM EST
    LoL Sailor. Really?? : )

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 02:08:36 PM EST
    Che, when you said: The Onion had a fantastic diatribe by the 9/11 hijackers, who ended up in Haites instead of paradise I'm not sure you meant Hades (as in Hell), or a version of Hell set on an impovershed Carribean Island. Which is it?? : )

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 02:16:37 PM EST
    Have you commented yet on the 16 year old girls from New York who are being held as suspected terrorists by the FBI? NYT had story last Saturday about it. Curious to see your observations on the issues involved.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 02:17:11 PM EST
    Yup, I'm stupid. It's Hades. Sorry. Sheesh.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by roy on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 02:28:16 PM EST
    Day 12 of the Minuteman Project. Still no gunplay, violence, or other criminal acts. Still no apology from the Left for misrepresenting the group as bloodthirsty thugs.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 02:59:04 PM EST
    give the "bloodthirsty thugs" time, the experiment has a ways to go. it (gunplay/violence/criminal acts) will happen before it’s over. no apologies necessary. ?did you know it's quite easy to loose a body (or two) in that terrain?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by roy on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 03:44:05 PM EST
    oUtsIdEl@@kN, I propose a challenge. If, on May 15, any registered Minuteman has been arrested for a crime in connection to the MMP, and not yet cleared of that crime, I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice. If not, you will start calling yourself "OutsideLookingIn" on these forums. If you want to work out technicalities, e-mail me. Do you accept?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 04:06:58 PM EST
    mfox, really. We have a community here about as diverse and disfunctional as any I've lived in. I would never wish any contributor ill health.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 04:19:34 PM EST
    Mungo - I don't know about 16 year old girls being held as terrorists, but I do not know about a 16 year old in Iran for adultry. Both sound bad to me.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 05:11:26 PM EST
    PPJ - I was concerned about the 16 year old girls being detained without due process in this country. Now that I know that they are hanging 16 year old girls in Iran, I am not that concerned. They could torture them without due process and it wouldn't be as bad. I just hope they don't hang them like the Iranians. Sounds like a pre-emptive war against Iran would restore humanity to their justice and prison system with little cost to us. Didn't even think of the relationship between our justice system and the Iranians until you mentioned it. Thanks.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 05:21:54 PM EST
    mungo - Yes, our civilizations are just so similar, aren't they? Why, as we speak I am just waiting to know the name of the latest hostage that Jerry Fallwell has taken and is threatening to pray over. No doubt the agony will be extreme.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 05:57:30 PM EST
    Mfox can't be a real person. No one's that dense. :-)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 06:12:10 PM EST
    Michael D - Most likely Dole does not consider Kerry's and his service on the same level. And yes, it is hard to get 260 people to all agree on something. Having said that, we would probably be better off if we could get past all of that and get on with the war we're currently fighting.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 06:15:14 PM EST
    Jerry's butt buddies have taken a whole country hostage executing thousands of innocents in the process. But our purpose is so much more noble so that makes it all o.k. PPJ, if you care so much about 16 yr olds, which I doubt, why dont you run down for us briefly all the great things that your frat-by-in-chief has done to make the U.S a better place for its young people. Omigod! Look over there! An evil Arab!

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 06:49:57 PM EST
    Jondee, are you feeling OK?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 06:54:41 PM EST
    Thats one dipsh*t.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 08:00:55 PM EST
    jondee - My comment speaks for itself. If you are offended by facts, you should cover your ears. But I am always amused by how just the mention of Fallwell makes some people tremble in their shoes.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 08:15:03 PM EST
    PPJ- The Iranian justice system is inhumane, sexist and harsh and should be deplored. Our countries are not similar. And this has something to do with 2 16 year old girls being detained as terrorists how? ??

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 01:44:42 AM EST
    Falwell doesn't make me tremble, he just makes me nauseated. I predict a preemptive war against Iran in the next 6-12 months. The sabre-rattling has already begun. Negroponte will be in an all-powerful position to cook up some intelligence, Bolton will be ready in the UN. Cheney will work the Sunday talk shows spewing nonsense about Iran's nuclear weapons program. None of the pundits will bring up the fact that Cheney, Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz all strongly supported Iran's nuclear energy program in 1976 because they foresaw Iran eventually running out of oil and having no other viable means of energy production. The bombs will start flying, Halliburton will get more no-bid contracts, thousands more soldiers and civilians will perish, and all will be well with the world.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 05:31:28 AM EST
    mungo - It was just my way of pointing out that criticism of our system goes on and on without anyone ever saying that yes, we screw up regulalry, and we need to fix our problems, but we are still much, much better than 98% of the rest of the world. Michael D - Fallwell, who I disagree with, has the right to say whatever he says. And his brand of religion is much better than those who cut off heads and hang people for adultrey.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 06:05:32 AM EST
    Before we get on our soap box about "women and children" and how great we are, perhaps we should ponder this for a moment: US soldiers seized a mother and daughter from their home in Baghdad two weeks ago and allegedly left a note on the gate: "Be a man Muhammad Mukhlif and give yourself up and then we will release your sisters. Otherwise they will spend a long time in detention." It was signed Bandit 6, apparently a military code, and gave a mobile phone number. When phoned by reporters an American soldier answered but he declined to take questions and hung up. Salima al-Batawi, 60, and her daughter Aliya, 35, were blindfolded, handcuffed and driven away in a Humvee convoy on April 2, leaving the Arab Sunnis of Taji, a suburb north of the capital, incandescent.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 06:15:33 AM EST
    Jerry Falwell is a popular preacher, how many of the kidnappers have the notoriety of Falwell in their own country Jim? Eric Rudolph is a Christian and I would imagine loves the falwell teachings. Compare an apple to an apple.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 06:54:31 AM EST
    Sailor - I should have been more explicit in my expression of humor. I was laughing at the "certain age" and not at your caring about fellow posters. I worry about Fred Dawes regularly. On the other hand, I did make a small point about how some folks here twist everything you say. That was the only comment I made on this thread and Horse w/ no Name comes back with:
    Mfox can't be a real person. No one's that dense. :-)
    Would you care to elaborate on WTF you're talking about horse. Don't forget "it feels good to get out of the rain"

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 07:08:12 AM EST
    I enjoyed this editorial about how moralistic, zero tolerance sex and drug education hurts kids.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 07:09:49 AM EST
    Oops...here it is http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/opinion/ny-opros134215531apr13,0,6792898.story?coll=ny-opinion-print

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 09:17:47 AM EST
    Has anybody seen this little nugget of propaganda? Have any idea who is behind it? I can't find any identifying information.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 09:57:25 AM EST
    PPJ - Was thinking about your comments when reading this Juan Cole post. Link Likewise, colonial occupation gives the occupiers an easy sense of self-worth and powerfulness. Thus the appeal of occupying other countries precisely for those sections of the dominant "whites" in US society that are least secure in their whiteness (e.g. lower middle class Southerners). Much about the Abu Ghuraib torture scandal can most easily be explained in these colonialist/racist terms. Likewise, the sex and power fantasy of white men saving brown women from brown men, which has figured so prominently in the new discourse of American empire, is best explained in this way.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 10:14:08 AM EST
    It seems that freedom.gov started off life as Dick Armey's web site. Now it's a purely partisan propaganda vehicle masking as an official government web site. It doesn't say who's behind it, or who is paying for it. It provides no contact information. It doesn't conform to federal section 508 accessibility requirements. It's clearly partisan hackery. Is it illegal? I wrote a letter to Diana DeGette asking her to investigate and forward to the GAO if needed. It's impossible to know if it violates the propaganda clause of the appropriations act just by looking at it, because we have no idea who paid for it. There are several other laws that it pretty clearly violates (including section 508), but I seriously doubt anybody outside the GAO is going to take action on it.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 12:55:44 PM EST
    Today, April 14, is tax freedom day, the day your federal taxes are earned for 2005. In the year 2000, tax freedom day was May 3, 13 business days later. No doubt everyone who thinks Clinton was a better pres than GWB will be sending 13 days of their gross pay to the IRS next month! HAR!

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by roy on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 01:54:56 PM EST
    Ace, Did you correct for the larger spending deficit under Bush?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 02:32:17 PM EST
    PPJ - Youre congentitally tone deaf to injustice unless its perpetrated by Arabs, that much has become obvious in the last year. Your favorite candidate attempted, while gov. of Texas, to FURTHER lower the age at which juveniles could be tried as adults, incuding presumably for capital crimes. Spare us the phoney idignation about all-things-muslim, and the crocadile tears. Btw, Falwell is frightening because he stands as such a living reminder of how easily captivated your side of the aisle can get over

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 03:04:15 PM EST
    The increase in the deficit has something to do with it, but I'll be dead when your children and grandchildren have to pay the debt off, so hardy har-har yourself.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 04:49:58 PM EST
    Roy and noname, come back after you sent your check! [Doctor Ace, please come back tomorrow if you'd like, but enough for today.]

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 07:07:05 PM EST
    Mungo - Hmmm, nice psychobabble. As a white southerner whose parents were sharecroppers, I think I understand that culture more than Juan Cole, or you, ever will. I get a real chuckle reading some of the BS pontifications of folks like Juan. Nice thing about the US. My parents worked their way into land ownership, education and a very comfortable retirement. Guess they didn't know they shouldn't strive for improvement, but instead spend all available time chewing tobacco and drinking shine. You guys are jokes. JL - The operative words are, "and allegedly." jondee - I've seen injustice up close and personal, and I've seen it corrected. I haven't seen any of that coming out of the ME except for Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan, and both of these have a long way to go. Let me know when you have some actual examples, say from Iran, Syria, Egypt, SA.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 07:22:49 PM EST
    SD - This is from the Delay thread. I brought it over because it is a reply to you, but off subject. You were commenting about who/what/why US military intercepted Russian aircraft. First get a globe. It'll help you understand. The first line of defense was out of Iceland by USN air early warning EC-121. When a Russian aircraft was spotted they would scramble the Air Force (F102's) for intercept and escort, just to let'em know we were watching. As the Russian, typically a "Bear" long range bomber/tyransport, flew down the east coast to Cuba they would be picked up and greeted by other means, and again intercepted by 102's out of FL, AL and TX. Many times the Bears would turn inbound towards the US, which led to some nerous Nellies. Were the playing or were they real? Along with the east and west barriers out of Iceland we had radar picket ships, Greenland radar sites, and White Alice and the Dew Line in AK, extending across Canada, and westward. This gave us a good look at anything coming out of the USSR over the pole and into the US. And yes, it was dangerous. And yes it was miserable. But it was a very important part of the Mutally Assured Destruction (MAD) strategy that probably kept either side from pulling the pickle and starting the last one.

    Wednesday Open Thread | 50 comments (50 topical)