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Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun May 08, 2005 at 05:51:27 AM EST
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This is the first "Informed Citizen Guide" published by William, James & Co. It's called Untidy: The Blogs on Rumsfeld, and it tells the story of Donald Rumsfeld through the eyes of his blogging critics. The posts were collected by editor and former teacher Tom Sumner.

THE INFORMED CITIZEN SERIES looks at American issues through the viewpoint of political bloggers, the Internet’s informed—and informing—citizens.

TalkLeft is proud to have some of its Rumsfeld coverage included in the book. There are seven pages of TalkLeft posts from 2002 - 2005, in which I write about the different lawsuits filed against Rumsfeld. But that's not the reason to buy the book. You can read TalkLeft's coverage just by typing "Rumsfeld" in the search box.

The reason to buy the book is for the incredible writings of the other included blogs, all on the same topic and in one place, seamlessly arranged. Another reason is to support the concept of the Informed Citizen Guide. It's a way of memorializing blog posts, long after they fall off the home page.

You can read the table of contents, the preface, the blogger bios and a factual piece on Rumsfeld at the book's website for free. My copy arrived Saturday, and as I was reading through it, I realized that even though many of us don't think of ourselves as journalists per se, it is as professional as anything any journalist has written. All of the bloggers' source material is noted in footnotes.

Many thanks to Tom Sumner. The Informed Citizen Guide is a welcome additon to the mainstream media coverage and to the spin put out by the Administration. At $10.00, it's also a bargain.

The second Informed Citizen's Guide will be available soon. It's called "THE BLOGS ON DOUGLAS FEITH & THE FAULTY INTELLIGENCE THAT LED TO WAR."

This book lays out the backstory of the intelligence used to justify the War in Iraq. Featuring the blogging of Americablog.org, Bad Attitudes, The Crisis Papers, Daily Kos, and many others. Selected with an introductory essay by Allison Hantschel, Athenae of First Draft.

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    Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld | 27 comments (27 topical)
    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#1)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    What can you say about Rumsfeld/ well for one thing he will say anything to anyone and take orders well for the bush business, didn't rumsfeld say the cost of the war would be under 107 million? didn't he say that our non government can't stop the next terror attack?...so what or who is he really working for Bin Laden maybe? the list is endless.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    'Irreparable harm to the United States' Words I heard from the radio one day a couple of years ago. The news story concerned the US gov not allowing testimony of the non-combatant, Zacharias Moussaoui. The despicable actions by some inside of the US gov has taken us to the brink of disaster. Donald Rumsfeld shakes hands with Saddam and everybody suddenly gets amnesia. The war in Iraq is more about how those in government carry and conduct themselves than it is about oil or the economy. That's too bad, but that is how it is. It's over. enough

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    One of the more sinister villains in the second half of the 20th Century and the beginning of the 21st, guaranteed, when the history books about this time are written... Remember everyone's joke about Dr. Strangelove when the U.S. invaded Iraq? Remember Blaghdaddy's joke a few weeks back about Rumsfeld and Korea? N. Korea is preparing to acknowledge that they now have operational nukes... Good thing we stopped them instead of invading a third world force with little more than sticks and stones to fight... Remember the neocon's attempted hijacking of Churchill with the references to "peace in our time," when they wanted to take out Iraq? Remember, "Don't let the proof be in the form of a mushroom cloud...?" Anybody laughing now? Someone should be f#*king impeached...Donny 1st and foremost.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#4)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    drronchee - Rumsfeld is fair game, but don't try to wring your hands over the fact that we helped Iraq in its war with Iran. At that time Iran was dedicated to defeating Iraq, and then SA to take over the ME, and its oil supplies. We couldn't allow that, and our armed forces were not ready to fight a war in which we would be heavily outnumbered. Using Saddam as our de fact armed force was a brilliant foreign policy decision that blunted Iran's plans. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And it wasn't new. If you were in WWII then you should be grateful we helped the Soviets and that they helped us. Blaghdaddy - Actually,PPJ doesn't remember Blaghdaddy's joke. Can you tell PPJ why PPJ should? As for North Korea, the deal cut by the Clinton administration has led to where we are now. Blaghdaddy should also understand that North Korea is too close to Red China for us to attack, and that South China still has misplaced hopes of reuniting in a peaceful way. So the most logical choice, with the situation presented by the failure of Clinton's foreign policy as ran by Albright and Jimmy Carter, is to try and bring them under control with the help of Red China and Japan. Will it succeed? We can hope, because if we have to invade it will be a very grim and bloody time.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#5)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    Blaghdaddy - If you are always going to advertise your blog in your comments, why don't you buy an ad?

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    We armed Iraq to the teeth and they attacked Iran. Is there any reason that Iran shouldn't be able to defend its sovereignty? The Iraqis used mustard gas against the Iranians. I wonder where they got that stuff? Saddam was hired by the CIA back in 1959. He was our buddy for a long time before he was found in a spider hole. A 'for tv sexed-up' story that has been proven to be false. He was in an apartment and was fiercely defending himself. A crew of film makers from the Marines made a nice tv version for the hapless American public. Iraq had a secular government. Why was it necessary to invade a country that had never attacked the US? Tariq Aziz was the deputy Prime Minister for the Iraqi government and is a Christian. Who knows what it will end up to be? One thing is for certain, the US cannot in any way benefit from what has happened. The Mongols did the same thing in 1248 AD. They attacked Baghdad and was losing the battle until they were forced to ally themselves with the Shiites and the Christians. There were longstanding differences with the Sunnis at that time. The Sunnis were slaughtered by the Christians and Shiites with the help from the Mongols. Nothing new with what has happened today in Baghdad, either. It's as old as the hills. One thing history teaches us: It repeats itself. If the foreign policy were so brilliant, why are we there today fighting for our survival? It has been a series of mistakes that are now spiralling out of control. Iran still sees the prize and the US has not detered them in the least. Time to lick our wounds and get out. Eventually, that is what is going to happen. The US cannot possibly win. It has been going on since the First Crusade started in 989 AD. If George Bush were more like Charles 'The Hammer' Martel instead of Pepin the Short, this stuff would be over. Charles Martel didn't dilly dally and try to make out like a bandit in Tours in 732 AD. He attacked without mercy and the Saracens ran with their tails between their legs. Either you fight the war to win or you get out. The US is not there to win, it is there to make out like bandits. It speaks volumes of what the US has become. 'Paper Tiger' comes to mind.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    When you're running TL (though Blaghdaddy could swear you are sometimes, the way you blather on without interruption), Blaghdaddy will obey your commands, PPJ. As for the way Blaghdaddy comments on TL, when TL tells Blaghdaddy she has a problem with his "advertising," he will cease doing so. But PPJ, before you run your incredibly enduring mouth, you should look up TL's "chatterer" policy, and while you do that, you'll see "TL's" policy on posting links to one's own site: Namely, that it's OK, PPJ. You'd also see, if you actually saw Blaghdaddy's site, that he doesn't advertise or try to make money from his site...it is his personal log for his personal musings, many of which people happen to agree, and if Blaghdaddy wants to make sure people know where he stands when he's commenting on another site, he's not afraid of people reading what he has to say...he's not profitting from people coming to the Cafe, other than the satisfaction that he derives from the agreeable comments visitors leave...it's called free speech, PPJ... But thanks for whining out...

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#8)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    ppj and blaghdaddy and the great drronchee, you all have good points, but what will happen next?, is itunderstood.? this war will become a tool against the people of this country, oil is power and that will be used on us all. one other point about boy Rumsfeld, who did he work for before bush? check it out. by the way rumsfeld is the guy to start the legaliztion of the dismantling of this non nation, watch and understand his words.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    So, uh, are you for Rumsfeld or against him, Fred?

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#10)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    drronchee writes - "he was found in a spider hole. A 'for tv sexed-up' story that has been proven to be false. He was in an apartment and was fiercely defending himself. A crew of film makers from the Marines made a nice tv version for the hapless American public." Just when I think we have a serious person making comments, you post the above. Uh, could you post some links to some proofs of that statement? I am LOL. BTW - It was brillant because it let two of our enemies kill each other and also protected the oil supply, at no cost to the US. Blaghdaddy - Perhaps you would like to comment on Rumsfeld's plans to attack North Korea in the event diplomacy fails?

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    Blaghdaddy would love to: "Kaboom!" The U.S. would attack N. Korea tomorrow if it thought it could do so without getting a bloody nose...the Powell doctrine hard at work here- "Don't fight unless you know before-hand that it won't take much effort..." That's what bit them on the ass in Iraq- it's taking alot more effort than they imagined, and if you think Rummy would still have gone in knowing what he knows now, he's dummer than his supporters... Blaghdaddy isn't privy to Rummy's "plans," but you can be sure they're as stupid as the last one was... You must bargain with N. Korea- there's no way around it, even before they get the nukes...if you can bargain with Russia, China, and sleep in bed with Arab dicators who give you access to oil, you can talk this little Korean nut down from the ledge... The problem is, this administration doesn't bargain, it demands obedience...and if PPJ's looking to Blaghdaddy for answers on this one, America's in bigger trouble than it thinks...

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    Did the publisher check with the bloggers before putting their pieces in the book? Back in Usenet's heyday, some yahoo was pulling Timothy Lynch's Star Trek reviews (among other things) off the newsgroups and putting them on CD w/o getting Lynch's permission. I would hate to think somebody is doing that to blogs now. --|PW|--

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    Yes, permission was asked. I knew exactly what posts were going to be used. The author was great to work with.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    Sounds good. I apologize for being a bit accusatory; I'm just fairly sensitive about copyright and other IP issues. --|PW|--

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#15)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    to all i am for any person with some new ideals, that will not dismantle this country. can anyone find a person like that?

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    A link for the Saddam spider hole fabrication story: Ex-Marine Says Public Version of Saddam Capture Fiction Whether it is right wing or left wing propaganda, I don't know, nor does it matter. I am not trying to convince you of anything. It is just something to think about. You be the judge.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    At no cost you say, PPJ? Hasn't the cost passed the 200 billion dollar mark or some obscene number like that, has it not?

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    'Allegedly' is a more appropriate word than 'proven'. These unredacted comments are prone to critical review, and that's fine. Heavily censored content isn't much fun.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#19)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    By the way its now well over 600 billion in cost and going up each day. I would be happy if this was a real war, but its not, the fact is with each kid that get killed on all sides will just cause a longer war and if you think this is about terror ask one thing of your non government why did bush say he didn't want bin laden. but remember its not about what you think it is, its about the coming third world war that the murderous oliarchies need to happen.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:53 PM EST
    At no cost to us, right Jim? Like the initial cost for the armaments and chemical weapons weren't paid by US taxpayers. Like the long term costs of creating and escalating conflict in the middle east have nothing to do with people flying planes into buildings in the US. Like the costs in lives and dollars of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have no connection to our long term policy of fomenting violence in the Middle East. They never had it so good as when we helped them war on each other at no cost to us.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#21)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:53 PM EST
    CA - How many soldiers, sailors and airmen died? Answer is, NONE. Do you realize you have opened your coat and shown us that you care more for money than their lives? I thought the Left was big on people rights over property rights? Shame on you. drronchee - Read it again. The comment was about our`assistance to Iraq during the 80's in their war with Iran. As for your Saddam story, put a BS filter on it and see what shines through. First, why would the US make a story up like tis? It buys them nothing and is a long time problem. Especially if we have 20 people involved in the situation the day before. As a matter of fact, seeing the Marines risking their lives to take him alive would have made a better story. Then we have the condition of Saddam during the inital interviews and early post capture. That wasn't a man who had been living in a house with access to soap and water. "Ex-Sgt. Nadim Abou Rabeh, of Lebanese descent, was quoted in the Saudi daily al-Medina" I wonder if anyone verified Rabeh's credentials? Was he actually a Marine? In Iraq? Since he is now in Lebannon, how did he get there, and is he available for interviews by channel 13 in Rochester, who apparently did nothing but repeat an unproven story by an unknown person published in a newspaper of, a best, neutral positons re the US? Judge? If you believe this story then you need to go back to school for a critical thinking class. BTW - If a blog published this story the folks at Channel 13 would be laughing and calling for standards for internet news sites.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    blablahblahblahblah... Rumsfeld is a loony-tune, as evidenced by his biting the heads off even his Republican allies during the last "hearing" in which he was star witness...

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    PPJ - I realize the story could be totally bogus. Who can you believe anymore? Do you know how long Saddam was in custody before the story broke? I no longer trust the US government. I put nothing past the antics they employ. Sorry to be so cynical, but we are in a real pickle these days. The pictures of Abu Ghraib says it all.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    Just for some perspective here...PPJ still thinks it was a brilliant idea to arm Osama Bin Laden to fight the Soviets back in the 1980s.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#25)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    Ernesto - And PPJ still waits for you to tell us why it was okay for OBL to attack us on 9/11. (You may crib Ward Churchill if that will help you.) drronchee - I agree that trust is difficult. That's why I use the old BS filter. Blagh - Deep, real deep.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    What's interesting is how big the cognitive dissonance is on its way to being. Bush is roundly hated by most of the world's population (who have heard of him). So when he travels around and gets their hatred in his face (to the degree he can't avoid it, like all filthy cowards), you lot will have to sing la-la-la-la all day long. Oh look -- you're already doing that. On the American front, the newspapers and tv news that ran with his lies are going into the dumper with alacrity. People don't like being lied to, and Bush has TONS of opposition now from within the R party, especially as politicians realize that Bush's outed LIES are going to fry their little behinds too. A second-wave of Bush-outing documentaries are coming. He is going to be SO HATED by Americans that generations will keep hot tar and feathers on hand just in case he goes by.

    Re: Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld (none / 0) (#28)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    Ernesto - Life isn't movies. It doesn't start and end in a couple of hours, and it doesn't phone ahead. The fact that we armed OBL in his fight with the Soviets does not justify them attacking us, which is your contention. PIL - What are you going to do when Bush's term is over? Who will you hate then?

    Bloggers Weigh in On Rumsfeld | 27 comments (27 topical)