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Riding With Cops in the Windy City

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Mon May 09, 2005 at 10:04:54 AM EST
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Over the winter, Defense Tech's Noah Shachtman spent a week and a half riding around Chicago with the police. After "2,250 spy cameras, 466,000 pieces of evidence, four suspected drug dealers, and one giant car chase," Noah has written this report for Wired magazine, in which he says,

Chicago's two-fisted street cops have a new kind of backup: a point-and-click surveillance network tied to a citywide crime-fighting database. (Smile for the camera.)

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    Riding With Cops in the Windy City | 14 comments (14 topical)
    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    Chilling report. Judging by the description of the zoom capabilities, the ladies might start wanting to think about wearing burqas. Massive potential for abuse. I don't like where this road leads.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    From what I remember, the camera boxes are extremely visable: blue and white checkered boxes atop light poles, with a blue strobe on top that just screams "police". Any idoits caught doing something illegal deserve exactly what they get.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#3)
    by The Heretik on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    The right to be left alone. The joyous relief in life that one can be alone with one's self and one's thoughts. Nobody need worry so long as they aren't doing anything wrong. Certain pathologies of behavior evolve when people are being watched. Find me someone who says they enjoy being watched. We are witness the porn of a new police state. Collecting informataion without legal purpose is immoral. Such information's use moves quickly across all ethical line. Let's call up the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover or perhaps Franz Kafka for more spooky insight.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    Well said Heretik. I fear most Americans just don't care, too afraid of the boogeyman d'jour to be concerned about their freedom and privacy.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#5)
    by jackl2400 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    Drugs. Drugs. Drugs. Now with cameras, the police can see drug deals happening on the street and swoop in. Wow! Hey, if the drug laws ever change, are these cops going to know how to do any other kind of "policing" other than drug surveillance? **Is** there any other kind of policing being done right now?

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#6)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    The process is insidious. They always begin by using this technology to catch the worst of the worst. How can anyone complain when the metro pass tag is used to catch a car hijacker. How exciting it is to see first hand the bad guys caught in the act by video survielance on Cop TV. Eventually they will come after any body and every body for not paying parking ticket or attending a Democratic protest rally. I'm to old to see that day but it's comming. You can bet your privacy on it.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    I sorta-kinda agree that there is potential for misuse (where isn't there in anything?), but come the f*** on, you have to be dumb as a post to get caught by these cams. They are visible from block away because of the flashing blue light atop it. And yes...people have the right to be left alone. That includes the people who have to live with dealers and bangers on their street corners. Also, considering that Chicago has been the murder capital off and on for years, you all shouldn't limit your arguments to catching dealers or the absurd potential-down-blouse-shot scenario.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#8)
    by jackl2400 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    Ern: not to pick on you, but your opinion seems to be a common one and I want to see if I can understand it. You're saying (1) the cameras are conspicuous so you have to be an idiot to commit crimes "on tape" in their vicinity and (2) that discouragement of street drug dealing and attendant nuisances is legitimate.

    Now, as to (1), does your opinion change if CCTVs are more ubiquitious and essentially invisible, as they are for security on private property, so that essentially all urban public spaces are under multiple invisible surveillance?

    And as to (2), while I can understand why people, especially residents, hate the violence and nuisance that accompanies street dealing, I don't neccessarily think that would translate to support for the obvious solution, which is get drug trafficing inside and behind closed doors.

    While I think this would be a solution to the drug dealing problems that vex urbanites, somehow I think most residents and the politicans and cops that pander to them have a less tolerant agenda, they still think they can arrest their way out of the problem.

    But no, arresting street dealers is not enough to feed the maw of the WoD. The goal is a drug free America but the path is the genocide of drug users. See this story about evicting druggies in Indiana. See Also, Richard Lawrence Miller's "Drug Warriors and their Prey" before you try to lay any Godwin's law critique on me.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#9)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    I find buying into this obsessiion over drugs and sex a bit over board and a serious destraction. We need to go back to being fixated on having a war on Poverty, getting universal health care, ending crime while at the same time emptying our prisons instead of filling them and protecting our enviornment for future generations. We have been destracted by the right for to long. We must get back on track.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#10)
    by The Heretik on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    Ed, don't you realize where we are right now? Welcome to the War on Everything TM

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    Jackl: Correct, but... (1) My thoughts on police using essentially invisible CCTV cameras are irrelevant because first, that's not what they're using, and second, it's probably illegal for them to do so in the first place. (2) Many people -- especially store owners and residents in high-crime areas -- praise the cameras. I think some even have gunshot detectors on them so that cops can target a point of discharge and go check it out. The main problem is that drug dealers just start dealing on side streets that are out of sight of the cameras. We're not talking about selling a little weed here...it's crack, heroin, etc. But, as I wrote before, this isn't only about stopping dealers. The WIRED article made it seem like that, though. The other problem is that people who have never had to push through addicts and thug-lifers on their way home at night, or have never been on edge waiting for the next crack of gunfire wondering if it will come thru their window, are the first ones jumping up screaming about invasion of privacy. The entire computer system is for making the CPD more organized so that they can tackle all sorts of crimes, and make less mistakes while doing it. So, unless you're dumb or doing something intentional for the camera, the cops MOST LIKELY won't take an interest in you.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    I live near and often drive through one of these neighborhoods on the west side of Chicago. As you can see from the article below, some business owners are in favor of them and have seen the difference they can make. The Illinois ACLU has endorsed their use as long as they are used solely for crime fighting purposes. As a Chicago resident, I sympathize with those that feel the cameras unfairly label their neighborhood as a bad one. Those of us who live here already know the bad neighborhoods regardless. It remains to be scene whether the cameras will help to promote investment and growth. link

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    The cameras may be highly visible in Chicago, but the spy cameras in NY are well hidden. I get the creeps walking down the street now, wondering how many cameras are watching. This is unacceptable in a so-called free society. A reminder, crime is expected to be higher in free societies as opposed to totalitarian ones. We cannot become so overzealous in crime prevention that we forget about the freedom. And the ogling of women is not far fetched, it's allready been documented that private security cameras have been used for this purpose. I don't want my wife or daughter being used as some cops jack-off material.

    Re: Riding With Cops in the Windy City (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:56 PM EST
    et al..... Big Brother is indeed watching! George Orwell was just about 20 years off is all. (1984 vs 2004) I live in the Chicago burbs and am not happy about this. This is the outcrop from the successful program of mailing people speeding/red lights tickets ....it turned out to be a money maker... so this is the next step I guess?

    Riding With Cops in the Windy City | 14 comments (14 topical)