home

The Pentagon Misleads ... Again

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sat May 21, 2005 at 11:11:18 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

by TChris

David Corn hopes that the Pentagon's latest attempt to mislead will receive due attention. The Bush administration has a history of misleading the public, and the public didn't seem to care when it came time to vote the liars out of office. Is there reason to think that the public will notice that the Pentagon is misleading about abuse of the Koran?

Lawrence Di Rita, a Pentagon spokesman, claims the Pentagon has "received no credible and specific allegations" of Koran desecration or mistreatment at Guantanamo.

How then does Di Rita explain the International Committee of the Red Cross' claim--which became news yesterday and today--that in 2002 and 2003 it told the Pentagon multiple times that prisoners in Guantanamo had said that US officials there showed disrespect for the Koran?

Reports of Koran desecration have been circulated for two years. The Red Cross maintains that the reports are credible and that they were shared with the Pentagon on several occasions. It's easy for the Pentagon to dismiss every disturbing report as lacking credibility, just as it's easy to blame Newsweek for problems that are rooted in the administration's invasion of Iraq. Misleading is a tactic that has served the administration well, and no matter how often the lies are exposed, the tactic continues to provide cover for an administration that refuses to be held accountable for its mistakes.

< Ghost Air's Visit to Stockholm | The 2002 Koran Incident at Guantanamo >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    The Pentagon Misleads ... Again | 32 comments (32 topical)
    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#32)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    Jim and TChris, OK, I know the 'public doesn't care' bit was merely an aside, and this thread's getting old, but to me it's too important to just let pass. Jim, I'm glad I made you smile. But he (or she) who laughs last laughs best. For starters, the Edison/Mitofsky report was full of holes. A sham. It has been thoroughly debunked by credentialled statisticians in three reports released by USCountVotes. And yes, I have read them. [link deleted, not in html format.]

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#33)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    Jim, I was working with adults who spoke NO ENGLISH. I was teaching them basic words like "car" and "food". Trying to get them to accept what in their culture is an obscene gesture would've accomplished nothing but wasting class time. Immersion works well for a percentage of children, but not all. It works well for children who come from families that are literate in their native language. No native literacy at home and you have a huge educational task to teach English.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#1)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Some of us have trouble finding the ICRC credible, much less prisoners who would complain about anything and everytrhing.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#2)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Lying is a fundamental tactic of this admin. It is done often, done on purpose and done without regret. One should read the writing of their Mentor leo Straus (sp?)to understand their ease at doing so. Theirs is reality, they create it, we are stuck in it.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#3)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    PPJ the king of the Bush rump swaps here at TL finds everything negative about this admin to be not credible. He says he's not a Repub, which means he is not acting out of partisan blindness but has actively chosen to support this admin and their crimes. I think thats about all we need to know about this immoral hack.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#4)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    The respect that these guards had for Islam was illustrated by their treatment of the Afghani detainee Dilawar (see Top Brass Implicated In Bagram Deaths below, link to NYT story). Dilawar was sickly but they shackled and beat him. The more he cried out, the more the guards got annoyed, so the more they punished him. The guards noticed that Dilawar would cry out "Allah! Allah!" when they beat him on the legs (his legs were beaten so bad that they were pulpified). The guards got such pleasure out of making him say that they they would beat him some more just for that purpose. I guess Dilawar must have been one of those prisoners who complained about "anything and everything." He is not complaining anymore because he never made it out alive from his detention at Bagram. By the way, the military later determined that he was innocent.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#5)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Koran has been "desecrated" at Gitmo. So what? When the Taliban blew up the Buddha statues, did Buddhists riot? When Serrano did "Piss Christ", was there blood in the streets? When the PA sent terrorists into the Church of the Nativity, did Christians riot all over the west? The problem is in the place you refuse to look - Militant Islam. If Muslims can be incited to kill over alleged incidents with the Koran, the problem is with them, not with us.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    James, The point is, we're supposed to act better than the Taliban, no? Sticking your head in the sand every time our moral standing is chopped at the legs is nothing short of willful denial. Not the ideal state for a free American to exist in, especially during "war". Jim, I suspect you'd trust the Red Cross if you or a loved one were in need of medical care in a war zone. Your political mistrust stems from what? The fact that the Red Cross actually is out there in the s*hit while you're comfortable in your recliner at home?

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Jeralyn, How about a thread about Bush's reason for vetoing the Stem Cell measure: because he's against "science which destroys life in order to safe life". This is the SINGLE MOST damning quote this man has spoken. But he supports the slaughter of thousands of Iraqis on a lie, in the hope of "saving lives" in the future? This one quote could give the Dems the surge they need on this issue, and others -- as it exposes his serious lack of logic skills.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#8)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Of course the point James and PPJ refuse to acknowledge is that its not just about the Koran, its about Gitmo, its about AG, its about an illegal invasion, its about the killing of innocents, . The desecration of the Koran serves as a pefect symbol of America's actions towards Muslims. Another interesting point is the james and PPJ would go nuts if someone burned an American flag. They will say thats different.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#9)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    dadler writes - "Jim, I suspect you'd trust the Red Cross if you or a loved one.." Actually, no. I see so much anti-US bias that I wouldn't take a glass of water from them. SD - Speaking for myself only, I didn't riot when I saw the moslems burning an American flag. Do you know anyone that did? Come now, surely you have a link up your sleave.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Some of us have trouble finding the ICRC credible
    Yeah the International Red Cross is a well-know communist/terrorist front. Right.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Jim, So you'd die before accepting help from the Red Cross. Uh-huh. Sometimes I wonder why I bother with you, my friend. Peace.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#12)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    i never said anything about rioting. Is that too subtle for you? Again its not just about the Koran, although you try to make it out to be in order to minimize the illegal actions of this admin.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Jim wrote, SD - Speaking for myself only, I didn't riot when I saw the moslems burning an American flag. We've had recent riots in this country over court decisions, world economic forums, election fraud, to name a few, and there's a riot every week practically when a bunch of drunk college kids wanna party too hard. We're talking foreign cultures here, or do you not realize that. When I taught ESL, I learned quickly not to point to a student to call on them in calls, but to gesture with an open palm, because pointing in many cultures is considered an insult. We get pissed about what we get pissed about. Other people far away get pissed about what other people far away get pissed about. Simple equation.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Sometimes I wonder if PPJ really exists, or for that matter lives in the same world as we do. The things he spouts often leaves me with my jaw on the floor. Like not trusting the Red Cross, as if they have any agenda besides helping those in war zones or p.o.w.'s. We all know that he would take any help they offered if he was in a tight spot. It just goes to show that his hypocrisy knows absolutely no bounds. And the other thing that gets me is where did all of these pro-buddhism folks come from? I didn't hear a peep of indignation when the destruction of the statues in Afghanistan happened, yet all of a sudden some of our more Right leaning brothers and sisters are acting like they truly care. Give me a break! TL makes a great point about it being much easier to blame a "liberal" magazine like Newspeak, I mean Newsweak for the fomenting of anti-American sentiment then looking at our behavior towards Muslims in general. The Shrubites have forced our military men and women to forgo their own humanity in service to the imperium. I just hope that these people committing the abuse and torture of captives in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and all the other detention centers around the world have the professional psychiatric help when they return to civilian life. But wait, those stand up politicians in the Repuglican party have cut funding to PTSD treatment centers, so I guess we will have some seriously disturbed individuals roaming our streets in the future.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#15)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    SD - Nice parsing. Okay, show me someone who went nuts. With, of course, some physical proof. Of which rioting would be acceptable evidence. dadler - Nice, but any student who is going to live in America needs to learn a small bit about the culture. Including the fact that pointing is not an insult. So, did you do the student harm by not preparing him? I would say you did. As for your examples: First, their actions are condemned and are not acceptable within US society. Secondly, 15 or so people do not get killed. Sherm - I exist only in your imagination..... And you have absolutely no way of knowing what I would, or would not do if I "was in a tight spot." Your comment "he would take any help" merely reflects your self knowledge and basis for actions. In other words, some of us have principles. Evidently your principles are comprimised at the beginning. God only knows how badly they would come out at the end. Plainly put. Don't judge me by your standards because I think your standards are poor at best. BTW - You do remember the American Red Cross using 9/11 donations to buy a new phone system, don't you? I think it was in San Diego. Link to CBS News article re other problems.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Actually, no. I see so much anti-US bias that I wouldn't take a glass of water from them.
    Please provide links to specific instances of anti-US bias. Or, save us the trouble and admit it's just another unsubstantiated claim.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#17)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Am I the only one who understands this is a war for life or death? and yes jim at may 21 you are right and you are right on the money once more john horse, but remember one thing this system is coming down what do you think will happen when you are unarmed? by the way its the pentagon's job to mislead people. Bush is as much your enmey as bin laden is, See people both are working against you and both want you dead, dead, dead.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#18)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Shorter PPJ: Any criticism of the US is "anti-US bias.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    PPJ, Plain and simple. Just remember pride goes before the fall. I agree, to PPJ any type of criticism of the U.S. foreign policy is tantamount to treason. [insults deleted.]

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    the rise of fascist regimes require blind nationalistic fervor. You can count on PPJ and RA

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#21)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    TChris, Um, the public did care. We voted him out of office. He stole it again. The eveidence mounts...take a good hard look.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#22)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    Let me see Lora tell us that Bush stole the election again. That brings a smile to my wrnkled old face. Sherm calls me a fool for telling him he can't rationally judge my actions because he doesn't know me, so he must be using his own principles in taking any help. Randy P makes the old, "criticizing the US is always okay, and you'd better not disagree arguement. Adept challenges what we all know is true. SD brings up the facist regime nonsense. Yes, just another Saturday night down at the ole Talk Left Bar and Grill. BTW - Have any of you made a comment about something the US did that was good in say the last, 10 weeks? Hmmmm?

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#23)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:16 PM EST
    SD - Before I leave, just a reminder. I'm still waiting to be shown that person who went "nuts."

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    Adept challenges what we all know is true.
    Shorter PPJ- Nope, I don't have proof, so I'll just make random claims, and hope noone notices. No troll cookie today.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    Jim, This was an ESL class. English as a Second Language. These were immigrants you would praise, striving to learn English in an underfunded ghetto adult school. These were people who've suffered more in one life than you ever would in ten. Do you think, if you can, that it's a good teaching tool to blithely do the equivalent of flipping them all off? Yeah Einstein, I tried to explain things about our culture, but I tried to avoid words, gestures, actions that would pointlessly waste precious class time meant for LEARNING ENGLISH, and not trying to understand your thoughtless teacher's problem with politeness. I must say, the rapidity with which you will knock off a reactionary response is quite, er, impressive?

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    I'd rather a book in the toilet than a human head, Quibbling over how the koran is treated is a distant second to how human beings are treated in US custody. Priorities people.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#27)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    Randy P makes the old, "criticizing the US is always okay, and you'd better not disagree arguement. Never said that, but it's so typical of you PPJ: when you don't have a leg to stand on factwise, you smear.

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    deleted

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    Can we stop the insults to other commenters and stick to debunking the arguments?

    Re: The Pentagon Misleads ... Again (none / 0) (#30)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    dadler - I didn't fault your intent, I just noted that it would be helpful if these children were taught some of the basics. I would think it would take about ten minutes to do that, and I think it very important, otherwise you have a population subgroup who won't mix well. BTW - I guess wedisagree over ESL vs immersion.

    The Pentagon Misleads ... Again | 32 comments (32 topical)