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Parting Thoughts From Iraq

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Jun 05, 2005 at 08:38:33 PM EST
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Newsweek's Baghdad bureau chief, Ron Norland, is leaving Iraq after two years. Some of his parting thoughts from Good Intentions Gone Bad :

Two years ago I went to Iraq as an unabashed believer in toppling Saddam Hussein. I knew his regime well from previous visits; WMDs or no, ridding the world of Saddam would surely be for the best, and America's good intentions would carry the day. What went wrong? A lot, but the biggest turning point was the Abu Ghraib scandal.

Since April 2004 the liberation of Iraq has become a desperate exercise in damage control. The abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib alienated a broad swath of the Iraqi public. On top of that, it didn't work. There is no evidence that all the mistreatment and humiliation saved a single American life or led to the capture of any major terrorist, despite claims by the military that the prison produced "actionable intelligence."

The most shocking thing about Abu Ghraib was not the behavior of U.S. troops, but the incompetence of their leaders.

[link via Atrios, who has his own thoughts on Iraq here.]

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    Parting Thoughts From Iraq | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#13)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:17 PM EST
    soccerdad,
    What the hell is it with right wingers They can't they read a simple declarative sentence. You and PPJ dont even understand the meaning of such words as but or and and we're supposed to take you clowns seriously
    Nice to see that your wild hyperbole is at least consistent. Since you didn't use "but" or "and" in your comments, I still have to ask, what part did I misunderstand? Did you mean to say that Rumfield's "the Iraqis will get tired of being killed" almost-quote was an admission of American policy of killing Iraqi civilians? If so, I understood you fine, and disagreed. If not, then what meaning do you assign to that particular quote? Did you mean that Rumsfield is using insurgents' attacks on Iraqi civilians as collective punishment? That would be strange; the insurgents are killing people for their own goals, which probably don't line up with Rumfield's. BTW, who is "you and PPJ"? I know "you". Are you making some comment about me eating sandwiches? I think you mean PB&J -- not to put words in your mouth.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:32 PM EST
    when all else fails, claim Americans are baby killers. tried and true tactic of those who want the other side to win while whining about having their patriotism questioned. After all, the mercs deserved it, as do all americans including the "little eichmanns".
    And when all else fails, try to start a patriotic pissing contest over the deaths of some hapless pawns in the Neocon game for world domination. But first, you should recall that I am not the one that privatized large sections of what used to be the military's job, nor am I the one that sent these guys over there on false pretenses. I am not the one that snuck their caskets back home in the middle of the night, with the excuse that it was to make life easier for their families. I am not the one that called their caskets "transfer tubes", to make their demise just a little more impersonal sounding - the better to desensitize people to their deaths and more likely to accept the steady stream of future casualties. So if you want to play the "support the troops" game you are barking up the wrong tree by going after me. Besides being totally full of sh*t, as usual.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    Maybe Abu Ghraib was the turning point for most of the hopelessly naive people who originally went along with the plan but the actual turning point for the Neocons was when the Blackwater mercs got publicly lynched in Fallujah. That was when the plan to turn Iraq into a world showcase of unbridled capitalism went right down the toilet. No investor would touch Iraq with a ten foot pole after that. And that's why our leaders leveled the place in revenge. Abu Ghraib was but an unfortunate footnote to the story for the 'Cons.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#2)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    One word.."Bush".

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:45 PM EST
    Not only were the people who supported allowing oil industry insiders to take over Iraq STUPID, they are now insincere. How is it that the bureau chief hasn't noticed the building of PERMANENT airbases? Abu Ghraib wasn't a mistake. Not guarding the munitions wasn't a mistake. Not repairing the infrastructure has not been a mistake. Deploying mercenaries in an occupation, which is illegal, hasn't been a mistake. The list goes on for pages. These aren't mistakes -- it's Mission Accomplished. If the Newsweek chief can't tell TREASON when he sees it, maybe he would be more expert at mowing lawns for $10. He clearly has no clue about the news.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    amazing in the mind of lunatics that lynching and burning of corpses of mercs(American citizens, all) is not really something to be regarded negatively. hard to repair(rebuild as third world functional prior to war?) structures when your heroes are bombing them.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    Ed.... Now you get it....Nick Burg deserved to have his head cut off because we took naked pictures of those poor terrorists (oh ...excuse me..."freedom fighters.") See how that works.... We are evil & they are good.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#6)
    by John Mann on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    BB, let's play the numbers game. How many Iraqi citizens who were doing nothing but minding their own business in their own country have been killed by the American military since 1991? Lots, right? Now, how many Americans who had no business in Iraq in the first place have had their heads severed? Hardly any, right? I realize you believe that the United States of America has the right to do whatever it pleases anywhere on the planet, BB, but come on.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#7)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    There were 4 mercs brutally killed. In retaliation, over 600 Muslims many of whom were innocent womwn and children were killed. So the going rate seems to be 1 American = 150 Muslims. Its important to note the collective punishment aspect of the retaliation, and in fact, that is the basis of most US policy in Iraq. As Rumsfeld said "Eventually the Iraqis will get tired of being killed". Shock and awe shock and awe.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    Soccer, right you are, but these MERCENARIES, placement in an occupation being UTTERLY ILLEGAL UNDER THE GENEVA LAW, are given UTTERLY ILLEGAL waivers of ANY legal responsibility for their actions. Were they, just prior to being hung off that bridge: 1) raping women and children? 2) robbing the remaining savings of blocks-worth of civilians? 3) killing grandmothers, for sport? 4) beating children to death in order to intimidate families? No way of knowing. But guess what? They would have ZERO culpability for those crimes. Bush thinks so highly of HIRED GUNS that he gives them a total waiver of ANY legal responsibilty. Not just under Iraqi or International law, but under US law. Carte blanche. It must be nice to be a dictator. Mussolini is always right. And, finally: If only the Fuhrer knew.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    when all else fails, claim Americans are baby killers. tried and true tactic of those who want the other side to win while whining about having their patriotism questioned. After all, the mercs deserved it, as do all americans including the "little eichmanns".

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#10)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    soccerdad,
    There were 4 mercs brutally killed. In retaliation, over 600 Muslims many of whom were innocent womwn and children were killed.
    Which specific incidents are you talking about?
    Its important to note the collective punishment aspect of the retaliation, and in fact, that is the basis of most US policy in Iraq. As Rumsfeld said "Eventually the Iraqis will get tired of being killed".
    I call shenanigans on that. The correct Rumfield quote is: "At some point the Iraqis will get tired of getting killed and we'll have enough of the Iraqi security forces that they can take over responsibility for governing that country." You make it sound like he's talking about Iraqis killed by U.S. troops, but in context he's clearly talking about Iraqis being killed by insurgents.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    amazing in the mind of lunatics that lynching and burning of corpses of mercs(American citizens, all) is not really something to be regarded negatively.
    If you are referring to my original post, which it seems you are, I did nothing but state the fact that the Fallujah incident was the effective end of the Neocon plan of empire building in Iraq. If you want to read anything into as far as "negative" or positive", that's on you. It's also a diversion from the fact that Fallujah was leveled in retaliation for that incident.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#12)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    What the hell is it with right wingers They can't they read a simple declarative sentence. You and PPJ dont even understand the meaning of such words as but or and and we're supposed to take you clowns seriously I wrote about this here The incidents refers to the 4 mercs killed and who had their bodies hung on a bridge, the retaliation was against Fallujah.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#15)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    roy are you being purposly obtuse? Or do you need to go back to 5th grade english.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:48 PM EST
    I guess I am barking up the wrong tree by trying to shame anyone here into realizing the folks that hang mercs/stone homosexuals/behead prisoners/(insert some horrible practice of your choosing here) might not be the morally responsible side to back in a conflict. My guess is if the American Nazi Party came out with an anti-Bush platform, it would suddenly find backers here.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#17)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:48 PM EST
    ED are you truly that dishonest? Your charge is utter BS, but what else is new. You have no shame do you?

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:48 PM EST
    I guess not but, then again, I never made a comment along the line of "screw em" in regard to the mercs' lynching(apparently after raping innocent elderly iraqis). as long as anti-Bush, I see no basement to folks many posters would back. The Jihadists certainly are no big improvement on Nazis.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:49 PM EST
    Posted by Ed: "when all else fails, claim Americans are baby killers." CLAIM? AMERICANS ARE baby killers. The illegal Iraq invasion has killed tens of thousands of babies, and the sanctions regime killed nearly a MILLION babies. Use of D. Uranium in Iraq will kill hundreds of thousands of babies in the next decade. But you completely missed my point, which is WAIVER OF ALL LEGAL CULPABILITY. Glad to hear you think that American citizenship means that you can do whatever the hell you want in an Occupation. Rape, rob, kill, dismember, torture -- it's all OK -- because you have a US passport. Nuremberg. That's all you clowns will understand.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:49 PM EST
    Ed Just keep making the crap up.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#21)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:49 PM EST
    Ed's right. The left, as George Galloway has encouraged it to do, has made itself a Siamese twin with Islamofascists. Nothing an enemy of the US does can be condemned on this board, or in any other lefty venue. So the point about the Nazis is right on. All you need to do to get the left on your side is oppose the US and Bush. Exceptions are invited...... There is a cute blog called "Misha" which you can get to from Instapundit. I am not slick enough to figure out how to get there direct, except by a general search which would probably take too long. Misha has quotes from Norland's writing over the last couple of years. Norland lies when he claims to have been an unabashed fan. Misha lays it out. Fortunately for you, Misha will no doubt prove so unpleasant that you will be able to do the lefty thing by saying Misha is a !@#$%^&* and so what he says can't be trusted. However, since he's quoting Norland, this tactic will be meaningles--as it always is. You just think it accomplishes something. But for those who don't want to soil your hands, the point is that what Norland's said over the years is permanently available to anyone and that can't be helpful to the left. You really don't have to read Misha to know that, whether you don't like it, or really, really don't like it.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#22)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:49 PM EST
    RA you are your delusional self. Isn't it time for your meds.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:49 PM EST
    Ed, show me where I said "screw the mercs". No really...show me.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#24)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:49 PM EST
    What, in particular, Soc, bothers you about the facts? Other than that they are both true and unhelpful, I mean? You did hear about Gorgeous George Galloway, didn't you? If your actions and words are different from his, please demonstrate the difference.

    Re: Parting Thoughts From Iraq (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:50 PM EST
    You did hear about Gorgeous George Galloway, didn't you?
    Yeah I heard he was smeared by the Neocons and ended up whoopin their asses on live TV (and in court).

    Parting Thoughts From Iraq | 25 comments (25 topical)