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Wednesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 09:02:37 AM EST
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An open thread again. I have to lay off typing today, to let the cortisone shot I got in my shoulder yesterday afternoon start working. Who said blogging isn't hazardous to your health? Also, Markos of Daily Kos and Jerome of My DD are in town today, conducting interviews for their book, and I'll be meeting them for lunch, along with the folks from Progress Now.org. Hopefully, I'll be back to blogging tonight, and I've sent out an S.O.S. to TChris, who if not in court, may take over today. In the meantime, here's a space for you.

Update: A big thanks to TChris who posted up a storm today. Lunch with Markos and Jermome was a working lunch - with Colorado Gubernatorial candidate Rutt Bridges, a Democrat, who announced his bid last Thursday. Markos and Jerome interviewed him for their book for over an hour, using an IPod with a recorder on it. No laptops, no notes. Just the four of us and Sarah, one of his staffers. Lunch was brought in from Quiznos, and we ate at his desk. Their book is going to be a best seller, I'm sure. Anyway it was great to see both of them and also nice to meet and hear the thoughts of Mr. Bridges in such a small setting.

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    • Wednesday Open Thread | 36 comments (36 topical)
    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    one man's experience running his new car on pure vegetable oil.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    um, that "car running on vegetable oil" link was supposed to be getoffoil.blogspot.com

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Ernesto - From the Tuesday Open Thread - Cheney isn't a neocon. He is a conservative (perhaps). i.e. He never was a liberal, or a leftie. "
    An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: “The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920s” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.).
    Still waiting for you to answer why it was okay for the Radical Moslems to attack us on 9/11.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Blag writes: "And don't use the U.N. resolution, because it never authorized force, just spoke of "consequences..." America ain't the U.N., so invading without a further resolution was a renegade act..." I don't think the US is obligated to justify their actions to you, or to the UN. But yes, "consequences" can easily be understood to mean the resumption of force. You should remember that the agreements/resolutions were made, and agreed to by Saddam, to stop the use of force. But the reason we invaded Iraq was that it was part of a strategy in the WOT. It was a preemptive attack because it was beleived by everyone that Iraq had WMD's, had the infrastructure and human resources to produce WMD's and that Saddam would use them, or give them to terrorists. [insult to another commenter deleted]

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    30 + more dead in Iraq yesterday, despite sweeps, despite finding luxurious bunkers, despite "The Dick" stating that the insurgency is in it's final throes. Who will clean up the steaming pile of .... our pet chimp has left us that is Iraq? And by the way, we can all relax. Monkey Boy and Blair have both stated that the verbatim spoken words from the highest British intelligence authorities are not true. Man, those guys are wrong about EVERYTHING.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Yes, I caught part of their press conference and the phrase "steaming pile of sh*t" hardly gives justice. Maybe - "mile-high steaming pile of sh*t."

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    it was beleived by everyone
    Not everyone, just those thirsty for unnecessary war (that they themselves would never get anywhere near), or those with an agenda, or those with a boss breathing down their neck telling them what conclusions to draw. What is the war on terror exactly? Is it similar to the war on nervousness or the war on anxiety? I'm only half kidding.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    No kdog, a better comparison would be the war on drugs.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    PPJ - and then there's the enormous amount of waste when you go in for surgery. You're likely to get separate bills from ambulance, ER, radiologist, lab, surgeon, surgical assistants, anesthesiologist, floor doc, hospital, and follow-up from the surgeon. Every one of those bills takes as much effort for a billing person as it would have taken if they were submitting them all on one bill. In other words, there are ten billing people under the current system repeating the same work ten times. Then it all gets repeated at the insurance company, where they process ten bills instead of one, and then there is the postage and paper to print ten different statements for coinsurance, and the insurance company has ten opportunities to deny a claim because they failed to see it in the context of the others. And if Medicare is involved, it's twice or three times the work, because most people have secondary and even tertiary insurance policies. And doctors/billing companies have to maintain fee schedules for each one of the contracted payors (about 11 of them) in order to figure out what to charge--or else they have to charge 200% or more for Medicare and just hope the insurance company properly adjusts the payment to the contracted rate. The uninsured usually get charged the 170% or 200% of medicare that the doctors are billing, so they get screwed too. Medical billing is a huge clusterf***. Yes, I've done it for a living, can you tell? :-)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    I've been having a great time arguing with people here lately, but there's a consistent clarity problem. We often talk about what people "should" and "shouldn't" do, but it's often unclear who has crossed over into "should be required by law" and "should be barred by law". Maybe we can prepend a big capital "L" to signify some amount of legal coersion. For instance, one shouldn't tell racist jokes, and one Lshouldn't burn crosses on black families' lawns. Or maybe TL and Mike Ditto could install another button next to the Quote button, which would put a section of text in a special "by law" font. Half-joking about the solutions, but the problem is real and frustrating. (And, lest I not stir the pot, I remind you all that the Right does not have a monopoly on Fascism.)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    You are absolutely right Adept. The half-serious point I was trying to make is, terror is a feeling, like happiness, sadness, elation, or fright. How do you wage war on feelings? At least with drugs, there is something tangible that can be destroyed. A war on Al Qaida makes a lot more sense. That war can be won. War on terror is fantasyland stuff.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    A war on Al Qaida makes a lot more sense. That war can be won. War on terror is fantasyland stuff.
    Another reason the "war on terror" label was chosen, IMO. A war on "terror", like the war on drugs, pushes all the buttons in the rule-by-fear playbook. A war on "Al-Queda" has an obvious goal. A war on "terror" can be twisted into whatever the administration desires.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    kdog - Change that to everyone of any importance.... ;-) Michael D - And when you get medicare and supplemental insurance involved, the results is a nightmare indeed. I worked for a spell AFTER I turned 65 and had Medicare, so my company insurance was listed as prime. The first time I used Medicare, it was rejected, so I had to call Medicare to change/notify. Took three calls to three different groups. Thing is, no one has ever done an accurate cost estimate, and using a "committee" is deadly.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    The ”war on terror”, identified in Amnesty International's annual report as a new source of human rights abuses, is threatening to expand to Latin America, targeting indigenous movements that are demanding autonomy and protesting free-market policies and ”neo-liberal” globalisation.
    Link

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Adept...my thoughts exactly. See Greg Z's link for a case in point.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Michael, I use a billing service and they are GOLD to me. But I still do my own coding (for surgical assisting). Believe it or not, HMO's are the most cooperative with contracting and paying providers (at least in my area). PPO's just absolutely suck. It's a hassle to get a provider application, it's an eternity getting contracted, and it's a hassle getting paid (as you said, thy'll deny if you have any typos). Sometimes they transfer my bill to the patient, then they pay ME!. So I have to refund the patient, with a letter of explanation. Medicare is tortuously slow, often there is a 3 to four month lag in getting paid. So you adjust. The advantage of all this to me as a practitioner is that I can be an independent contractor. And after having been employed by MD's, hospitals and clinics over my career, I certainly am grateful to not have to work for those idiots anymore. Much of the phenomenon of complex medical billing is caused by practitioners divesting their talents (and resources) into more specialized clinics and sevices and making their services so "indispensable" that the carriers are authorizing payments to compete in the marketplace, or avoid getting into trouble for not authorizing treatment that becomes the standard of care. Capitation is an interesting phenomenon. A carrier (Ins. Co.) will pay a set amount to the hospital for the care of a patient. Fees for sevices are then disbursed to the individual contractors (MD's, surgeon, etc). I my case I would then bill the surgeon instead of the carrier. This simplifies it for the carrier somewhat, but I doubt we'll see any savings from that technique. It, of course, is much more complex than this. I thought I would give you another perspective FYIO.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Che, yeah credentialling is a pain in the @$$, and if you're not a businessman with good negotiating skills, you get screwed. A lot of my clients didn't even realize they could negotiate on the fee schedules, and almost none of them realize that they have to contact the carrier to get updated to the new RVRBS if there is a reimbursement increase. I never really experienced much of a difference between HMO and PPO, but there were huge differences from carrier to carrier. The worst are these TPAs like Sloan's Lake. You can get paid by Medicare 2 weeks after the date of service if you submit with 837 and get remittance advice by 835 and sign up for direct deposit. If your billing is using all the HIPAA technologies correctly, Medicare goes from being the biggest pain in the butt to being by far the easiest and fastest payor. Just by getting that set up for one of my largest clinics, we dropped the 60-90 bucket by half after one month, and they got an extra $50,000 that month.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Michael, I'm not savvy enough yet to aggressively negotiate but your point has encouraged me. Thanks. As a non-physician (PA), Medicare will not accept a claim from me. This means I have to get a PIN # for EVERY group, and they have to tack on the CPT with an AS modifier code for assisting. Right now I have almost a dozen active PPIN #'s. But it does cut down on their paperwork. I don't send a separate claim. Sorry, TL, to go off in a different direction.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Cheney isn't a neocon. He is a conservative (perhaps). i.e. He never was a liberal, or a leftie.
    When I say Neocon, I am including the PNAC crowd, no matter their past affiliations. So in my book Cheney is a Neocon. So after clarifying this...what do you think about his numerous deferments in order to avoid military service? BTW...I really like the "universal service" idea that you mentioned before...especially if it could be made retro-active. :D
    Still waiting for you to answer why it was okay for the Radical Moslems to attack us on 9/11.
    I never made this claim, actually. I said it was idiotic to arm, fund, and train the Afghan mujuhadeen. Orrin Hatch on the other hand said it was worth it.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Michael - It amazes me that we can start talking about health care, specifically about single payer health care, or as the right likes to call it, "Socialized Medicene," and no one from the Left, except Che comes in. And he is discussing technical issues with the current system. I feel like screaming. HEY DEMOS! Do you think this might be an issue of interest to all Americans? Do you think this might be something you could win some elections on? Instead, we get questions about Cheney's deferments..... and comments about Clintons dodging... Won't put a splint on a child's arm, or provide blood pressure medicene for Grandma.. But it does feel soooooo good... Ernesto writes:
    "When I say Neocon, I am including the PNAC crowd, no matter their past affiliations. So in my book Cheney is a Neocon."
    Well, he isn't, and in the world I live in when you start defining words to mean what you want them to mean, people tend to giggle at you. As to military service. College deferments were legal. I didn't like them, but if I refuse to do business with all of the people who took deferments, I would have a very small universe of people. I do believe in Universal Military Service. That means all. No deferments. Two years upon high school graduation, or age 18, which ever comes later. As to 911 attacks. Can you make a simple declarative statement? No quals?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    when you start defining words to mean what you want them to mean
    OK...to avoid confusion instead of Neocon I will use the term PNAC/Neocon to refer to these critters in the future.
    all of the people who took deferments, I would have a very small universe of people.
    OK...to be more clear, how about the people that took deferments and then went on to start wars? That should whittle it down a bit for you.
    I do believe in Universal Military Service. That means all. No deferments. Two years upon high school graduation, or age 18, which ever comes later.
    I'm down with that! And I honestly believe the Iraq occupation would wind down very quickly if that were to happen.
    As to 911 attacks. Can you make a simple declarative statement? No quals?
    I was against them. And the way they were exploited to the hilt by the PNAC/Neocon crowd. Oops, sorry couldn't resist!

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Ernesto - If you disqualified every politician who never served in the military you would have a very long list. So give it up.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    This was from ras over on the Janice Rogers Brown thread...
    At least now the Iraqis can choose their own govts, as they see fit. If they want another socialist one ... unlikely, but for argument's sake ... they can do so ... or not; either way it's their choice now, a choice they never had under Saddam.
    ras...if the Iraqis have democracy now why can't they vote on whether they want U.S. troops to stay or leave their country?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    If you disqualified every politician who never served in the military you would have a very long list. So give it up.
    Come on, quit dodging. I specifically asked you about politicians that got deferments then went on to start wars. For or against?!?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by N in Seattle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Speaking of people named Bridges, why have you said absolutely nothing about the decision rendered by Superior Court Judge John Bridges in Dino Rossi's gubernatorial election contest in Washington? Or about the lawsuit itself? I thought a "law blogger" might find something worth noting in the case. Judge Bridges, essentially hand-picked by the Republicans, and based in a strongly Republican county, issued his ruling on Monday. It was a devastating point-by-point rejection of every (pathetic) argument by the petitioners. In a case where they asked to have votes removed from Gregoire's totals due to the presence of some number of demonstrably illegal ballots cast, he ended up removing 4 from Rossi's total and none from Gregoire's. He pointedly rebuked the GOP's efforts to make him into an "activist judge" if he had supported their contentions. He rejected their unscientific, statistically-invalid expert testimony. He dismissed the case with prejudice. His decision was so strong, and so well founded, that the GOP decided not to file the appeal that everyone in the entire state anticipated. Again, Jeralyn, I wonder why you didn't find this legal matter worth mentioning here.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Sorry, N in Seattle, see What Atrios Said.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Ernesto - Don't be obtuse. But, just because I am in a very good mood tonight. I said I disapproved of deferments. I said that they were legal, and that if I refused to do business with people who had one I would have a very small universe of people. Now what is it you don't understand about that? As for politicians starting wars who had not served, I thought Clinton should not have gone into Kosovo until he had UN support. I mean you must be talking about Presidents, right? And W was in TANG.... Give it up, Earnie. You aint slick enough to do anything but get your self in trouble. BTW - Tell us why we shouldn't have used the Freedom Fighters in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Now remember. No knew they would have the loyalty of a snake. And doing so saved us lives and hurt our enemy. I mean you did think of the Soviets as enemies, didn't you? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    Jim, I would also like to see some form of universal health coverage. But in our society right now there has to be a tiered system. You can't just eliminate these major third party payors. It's a huge industry. They would never allow it. I would gladly go back to being an employee of a healthcare organization, if it would mean universal health maintenance and emergency treatment for everyone.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    As for politicians starting wars who had not served, I thought Clinton should not have gone into Kosovo until he had UN support.
    Why because he was a Democrat? Can only Republican presidents invade someplace w/o UN support and get your support?
    And W was in TANG....
    Yeah and that was only to get out of going to NAM. It's OK though, I am sure some lower class kid was (unwittingly) kind of enough to take his place.
    And doing so saved us lives and hurt our enemy.
    You gotta be kidding. How did it save us lives? It's not like Carter or Reagan were ever gonna send US troops in there. No sir, we are 3,000 lives in the hole thanks to your "brilliant strategy".

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    I mean you did think of the Soviets as enemies, didn't you? Inquiring minds want to know.
    Yep, that's what we were told for a long time after they helped us beat the Nazis. But the Afghan "Freedom Fighters" (Reagan's words) launched 9/11 which killed thousands more of our people in 3 hours than the Soviets ever did in 50 years. I guess history shows us that the "enemy of our enemy" was a worse enemy than just our enemy.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    Che - I agree we have a huge structural problem, but if we don't start working on it, it will never go away. Ernesto - I opposed the war in Kosovo. I saw no national interest involved, and would have left it to Europe to sort out. But, when Clinton sent in the troops I zipped my lips and supported the country.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    Ernesto - The Cold War killed thousands, add up Vietnam and Korea alone, and then the thousands of others killed on ptarol looking for Soviet submarines, etc. Since you didn't do that, I think it plain that you never have regarded the Soviets as an enemy. That's a rather common position of the Radical Left.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    "I feel like screaming. HEY DEMOS! Do you think this might be an issue of interest to all Americans? Do you think this might be something you could win some elections on?" What a joke. Every major Deocratic candidate that I can think of, which most definitely includes Clinton and Kerry, in at least the last four cycles, has talked often and eloquently about the need for Health Care reform. But the media barely attends to the speeches and never covers the issue, unless it's a GOP scam to limit malpractice suits or something like that. The GOP made absolute and utter demogogic fools of themselves over Shiavo, though, and in doing so got the full blessing of our noble "fourth wing of government." Even as they cut Medicare for people who actually aren't brain dead. Fortunately, people saw through that one and for a rare fleeting moment, saw the political landscape for what it is. You would have almost thought freedom was a priority in the media and among voters in this country. Almost.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    Woohoooo, Jim, you are completely right about healthcare. The whole system is in shambles. as an individual, getting healthcare is almost impossible. the insurance companies are running in the red. deductables are soaring. Bring on the socialism. Please.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    glanton - Somehow I have missed Dean, Reid, Hillary C and Pelosi saying anything about healthcare. What I have heard is a bunch of attacks on Delay, SS reform, judical nominees and Repubs in general. As for Shiavo, what in the name of blue blazing hell does that have to do with healthcare? V2marty - Actually, national health care doesn't have to usher in socialism. Riddle me this. How about a 4 percent national sales tax, capped at $4000 per transaction, with unprepared food, drugs and healthcare excluded? Would that pay for it?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    Republicans and many Dems would never tolerate a tax like that. Too radical. Sorry. Just being realistic with the people in charge right now. Health care, as well as other essential services, should be nationalized, but not before we fire all the liars. All of them. Dem and Repub alike. Start fresh. Clean the slate. Flip the Etch-a-sketch and shake it like a can of paint.

    Wednesday Open Thread | 36 comments (36 topical)