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Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Closed

By TChris, Section War on Terror
Posted on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 04:06:17 PM EST
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by TChris

Closing the Gulag detention facility at Guantanamo would put an end to a public relations disaster and begin to repair the image of the United States as a country that cares about human rights. President Carter and Senator Biden are among many who want President Bush (in Carter’s words) "to close down Guantanamo and the two dozen secret detention facilities run by the United States as soon as possible."

"Not gonna happen" was the essence of Donald Rumsfeld's response, as reported in this morning's New York Times. Apparently President Bush didn't get the memo.

President Bush left the door open to an eventual closing of the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay on Wednesday amid mounting complaints and calls for it to be shut down ....

President Bush's pledge to "explore all alternatives" wasn't a ringing endorsement of President Carter's request. Still, his refusal to rule out Guantanamo's closing confirms that President Bush doesn't read the morning papers. By tomorrow, expect Bush and Rumsfeld to be on the same page: everything's just fine, it's all the left wing media, there's no need for change.

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    Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Closed | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    They take him off his leash for 15 minutes and already he's contradicting everyone else. They need to find that earpiece ASAP.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#2)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    "Absolute power corrupts absolu--oh, fuggettabowtit."

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#3)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Ah... gulag is to "gitmo" as Hitler is to "Hussein" Far-too-right republicans say, "Exaggerations for me and not for thee!"

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    OK so if the bushies close Gitmo what is a realistic alternative? Set them free? Turn them over to the Gov'ts of the countries where these guys were captured? Send them to Disney World? It is easy to say close the place and calling it the Gulag is way over the top, TChris could do a little research into the real thing. Unfortunatly the propaganda value of realistic descriptions of the Russian gulag would show what an extremely hyperbolic claim is being made by AI and ruin the Left's new meme. Either way what is a realistic solution to Gitmo?

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    what is a realistic solution to Gitmo?
    Close it down. Either charge and try the prisoners as quickly as possible or let them go.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#6)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    Actually, closing Gitmo would cause problems. You'd have to redo your complaints, which would be identical, although as usual, false, to specify the next alternative. Anybody who thinks you're operating in good faith is an idiot, including Tom Frieman.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#7)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    what is a realistic solution to Gitmo?
    Today...? The strong ones have resisted and the weak ones have broken. In the past, many of the most famous (and infamous), most noble (and ignoble) leaders honed their logic while imprisoned. It's too late already. There are many nascent leaders in those prisons. I think I'll go read "The Second Coming" by Wm Butler Yeats now.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#8)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    Sir? How about shutting down Abu Ghraib, like you promised? No, not that either?

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    What does it matter if we shut down Gitmo, we've still got tons of secret prisons located who knows where, with people disappearing into them regularly. The solution isn't just to close Gitmo, thats a band aid. We have to rethink our treatment of prisoners from the ground up.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#10)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    No,No, You don't get it at all do you? the new deal will be for you soon.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#11)
    by Andreas on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    The issue here is not a "public relations disaster" or "the image of the United States". We are dealing with a government which consists of war criminals. They should be put on trial.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#12)
    by TomK on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    Don Rumsfeld likes his secret torture gulags. What fun is it going to war with brown people if you can't lock them up without charges and torture them with your death squads? Don't you know our boys need to have some fun? Are you against the troops? Why do you hate the troops? If you were in their position, you'd be torturing brown people to blow off steam too. It's the american way. Um, no. This country sucks. The elected leadership is 100 percent in the hands of corrupt corporate interests, and the control advertising has over elections will assure that never again will a president without corrupt corporate ties be elected. What can you expect from these guys?

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    What Ernesto said. Either try them or release them. It's that simple.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    RA: so you're saying that the many agencies and investigators which have confirmed the allegations of abuse, including people within the Army and the Pentagon, are making s**t up? The Red Cross is lying? You may be perfectly comfortable that only the bad guys are getting this treatment, and they deserved it enough that we don't have to go through our normal procedures for putting people on trial and presenting the evidence. If you love America as we do, don't you want it to be a good, fair country? Don't you want 200+ of Constitutional law to survive? Apparently not. America now seems to consist of a small group of Bush supporters. I only hope you never accidently get arrested for something you didn't do. Actually, to be honest, I *do* hope it happens, because it might open your eyes and teach you something.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#15)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:52 PM EST
    "IT'S ALWAYS SAD when a solid, trustworthy institution loses its bearings and joins in the partisan fracas that nowadays passes for political discourse."
    Who could the Washington Post be talking about? Amnesty International? Surely not. Oh, yes? Now really. I guess that says a lot.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    I don't think closing Gitmo would accomplish very much. It cetainly isn't going to change anyone's mind! I think Jimmy Carter jumped on this bandwagon to help people forget about his abysmal term as president!! Hey Jimmy...can you say HOSTAGES, IRAN, GAS LINES etc etc

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#18)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    DA - What don't you understand about the very first phrase from the WP editorial:
    ""IT'S ALWAYS SAD when a solid, trustworthy institution loses its bearings"
    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#19)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    You don't get it at all do you? the new deal will be for you soon.
    C'mon Fred, you're scaring me.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ambiorix on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    Who could the Washington Post be talking about?
    So for the unnamed whore that wrote this WP article, it is OK for the US to have prison camps where moslims get tortured to death, but is it a shame to call the torture sites gulags.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    For the encephacally challenged, opinions are not facts, editorials are not articles. N one cares what some rw pundit says, especially since they don't list any facts. Yes, it is always sad when a gov't lies to start an illegal war and then keeps lying to maintain it. All of the facts that AI listed were true. the only thing rw rushballs can complain about is semantics, one friggin' word out of a whole report. It will always play well in limbaughland, but not in a reality based world. Back on topic: Like everyone else accused of a crime in the american system, charge 'em & try 'em, or let 'em go.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    I suggest moving them into the homes of good liberals(tom friedman/nytimes reporters). my guess is that some lifestyle changes might be made as they might not be too accomodating for jews/christians/women/anyone not psychotic but, given their innocence, I am sure the accomodations could be made.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    And I suggest ed's neighbors report him as a terrorist, the gov't whisk him gitmo, since they don't need a warrant or prob cause and anyone with knowledge of his wherabouts is gagged by statute. Then he can enjoy all those frat party hijinks.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#24)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    Ambiorix - Nice language. I mean what class you exhibit in your disagreement. Makes one proud to have known you. Sailor - The Washington Post can not be called a right wing paper, nor does it have a right wing editorial page, and if you try and say it does reasonable people will just giggle.

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#25)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    The thread is about closing gitmo, not the wash post. And the post is not a lib paper, no matter how many times rush limbaugh says it is. p.s. It was an editorial. Charge them and try them or admit you run a gulag and let them go. What part about freedom, american ideals, the constitution and due process don't some posters understand!?

    Re: Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Clo (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    my guess is if I were walking around with an AK-47 shooting at people, I would have problems. Of course, I am not in Afghanistan shooting at people, so my degree of concern is limited. Again, since all at Gitmo are simply victims of circumstance, just release them(in your hometown-don't dump them in foreign country to kill there/have the courage of your convictions). Since Tom Friedman/nyt/posters want them released, why not put money where your mouth is?

    Guantanamo Won't Be Closed ... Unless It's Closed | 25 comments (25 topical)