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Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must Go On

Update: Jeanne D'Arc at Body and Soul writes to Senator Durbin. Don't miss it and read the comments there too.

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Original Post

People may disagree about whether Sen. Dick Durbin should have apologized. We should stay focused on the real problem: the administration’s torture and indefinite detention policies, which are un-American and make us less safe.

The media has spent the last week focusing on one paragraph of Sen. Durbin’s speech, instead of responding to the right-wing noise machine. The rest of his speech, which the right-wingers didn’t bother to read, gets to the crux of the real issue:

It is worth reflecting for a moment about how we have reached this point. Many people who read history remember, as World War II began with the attack on Pearl Harbor, a country in fear after being attacked decided one way to protect America was to gather together Japanese Americans and literally imprison them, put them in internment camps for fear they would be traitors and turn on the United States. We did that. Thousands of lives were changed. Thousands of businesses destroyed. Thousands of people, good American citizens, who happened to be of Japanese ancestry, were treated like common criminals.

It took almost 40 years for us to acknowledge that we were wrong, to admit that these people should never have been imprisoned. It was a shameful period in American history and one that very few, if any, try to defend today.

I believe the torture techniques that have been used at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and other places fall into that same category. I am confident, sadly confident, as I stand here, that decades from now people will look back and say: What were they thinking? America, this great, kind leader of a nation, treated people who were detained and imprisoned, interrogated people in the crudest way? I am afraid this is going to be one of the bitter legacies of the invasion of Iraq.

It is not too late. I hope we will learn from history. I hope we will change course. The President could declare the United States will apply the Geneva Conventions to the war on terrorism. He could declare, as he should, that the United States will not, under any circumstances, subject any detainee to torture, or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. The administration could give all detainees a meaningful opportunity to challenge their detention before a neutral decisionmaker.

Such a change of course would dramatically improve our image and it would make us safer. I hope this administration will choose that course. If they do not, Congress must step in.

Two op-ed columns today also focus on the real problem. Middle East expert Jim Zogby argues that what really hurts our image in the Arab world are the administration’s torture and indefinite detention policies, not Durbin and other critics of Guantanamo:

What damages the U.S. image and endangers us is not comments by Mr. Durbin and other critics of Guantanamo Bay. It is the Bush administration's detention and interrogation policies. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld explicitly authorized the use of abusive interrogation techniques at Guantanamo Bay. FBI agents and the Red Cross both concluded that the use of these techniques at Guantanamo constituted "torture." In the past, the United States always has condemned the use of such techniques. Now we apparently approve of them.

According to polls we have conducted, Arab attitudes toward the United States have dropped to dangerously low levels. The treatment of Arab and Muslim prisoners is a big reason, rivaling regional disapproval of U.S. policy toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the war in Iraq.

Comments by Mr. Durbin and other critics help, not hurt, our image in the Middle East. People there are already outraged about Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib. That Mr. Durbin and others have demonstrated the courage to speak out and challenge these shameful and abusive practices illustrates to the Arab world that not all Americans support what the world knows we have done.

As their criticism makes clear, there are still Americans who hold high the values we call on others to emulate. At a time when we're trying to spread democracy, Mr. Durbin and other critics show people in the Arab world how a democracy works.

Clarence Page notes in the Chicago Tribune that we still need to address the problems at Guantanamo that Durbin raised. We won't let this discussion die. It's too important. Senator Durbin was correct and apology or no apology, the Dems should stand behind him and not let the right-wing direct and dominate the discussion.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#1)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    Yep - once again, the issue is ignored, overlooked or deliberately thrown aside. It's not about Durbin's 'comment.' It's the fact that his "source" was an FBI report who was reporting on what they (the FBI agent) had seen happening while they were at Guantanamo.

    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#2)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    One word...show.

    Durbin is to thank (or to blame) for the focus on his unfortunate analogies. He embarrassed his party, and for that he should have the decency to do what Trent Lott did when he made a similar faux pas-- namely to resign his party leadership post.

    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#4)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    Just for my own interest, I scrolled down to the original post about Durbin's apology, just to observe any graciousness on the part of the usual RWNJ's who comment here. Zip

    Durbin deserves the exact same graciousness and credit from conservatives that Trent Lott got from Liberals when he repeatedly apologized a couple of year ago. It wasn't until Lott resigned his party leadership post in the Senate that the dogs were called off.

    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#6)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    There's no need for Sen. Durbin to resign.

    I agree with Jim Zogby on what really has, and will continue to, hurt our image in the Middle East. Sen. Durbin's criticism of this administration's policies can help with that, but only if more were to join in.

    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#8)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    cheetah - Could you tell us how criticizing our military in the WOT will help us in the middle east? Because that is exactly what Durbin did. And given that these countries are, at best, neutral and at worst, actively hostile to the US, tell us how appearing weak will improve our image?

    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#9)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    PPJ as you know thats not what Durbin said, your continued regurgitation of the Bush/right wing talking points doesn't make it so. PPJ has bought into the shock and awe paradigm of the Bush admin, i.e. Bush et al feels that the WOT can be won by sheer intimidation. That explains most of the admin's actions both the torture and the military tactics in Iraq (see Fallujah). This approach is doomed to failure. People fighting in their homeland seldom succumb to intimidation. Using only these techniques, without a concerted coordinated political approach carried out honestly and in good faith, means we are doomed to failure. All this is very well known by the military experts like those at the war colleges. But since the neocons are smarter than everyone else on the planet......

    Kitt: Please explain why Durbin should not resign his minority whip party position, but why Lott should've resigned his? Both men embarrassed their party (even Mayor Daley and Hillary have criticised Durbin). Both gave lame apologies (IF I have offended anyone...) The Left demanded Lott's scalp, but they defend Durbin's indefensible analogy.

    "The Left demanded Lott's scalp,"
    Simply false. Last I checked, the Democrats in the Senate have absolutely zero control over who gets to be the leader of the majority party. It was the White House that hung Sen. Lott out to dry.

    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#13)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:27 PM EST
    Kitt: Please explain why Durbin should not resign his minority whip party position, but why Lott should've resigned his? Both men embarrassed their party (even Mayor Daley and Hillary have criticised Durbin). Both gave lame apologies (IF I have offended anyone...) The Left demanded Lott's scalp, but they defend Durbin's indefensible analogy.
    Why? You brought up Lott...... Sen. Durbin hasn’t embarrassed his party. If anything, the likes of Richard M. Daley and Hillary Clinton, along with Joe Biden lately, who think it’s fine to attack the motives of another Democrat, is what I find more embarrassing. I'm sick of the infighting of the Democrats. Durbin’s analogy may or may not have been right on; it may or may not have been appropriate. [I understood what he was saying when watching it on CSPAN because that isn’t all he said.] It doesn’t matter - that’s NOT the point. The point is the REPORT of findings regarding Guantanamo and the author(s) of that report. It’s a wee bit difficult to maintain your ‘we’re above reproach’ attitude while practicing the same methods as those you consider deserving of admonishment for their practices, regardless of the scale.

    Dark Avenger-"It was Senate Republicans who voted Lott out of his position". Absolutely correct, and that should end any further attempt at a tie-in between Durbin and Lott. It won't, but it should.

    Re: Senator Durbin's Remarks: The Discussion Must (none / 0) (#15)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:29 PM EST
    Wandered over to Juan Cole's place to see if he knew anything about the "last throes" mentioned by VP Cheney. He had this about Gen. Abizaid. There was this from a fellow academic of Cole's:
    "Yesterday I talked with a 2nd Lt and West Point grad who has just come back from Iraq. He says flat out that the war is lost, that "we" only control territory when the troops are there in massive numbers and that "they" take over as soon as the troops leave, that the army is over-extended and morale is terrible -- drug use is escalating -- that there still isn't enough armor, that the Iraqi army and police are worse than useless, and that senior officers are convinced that it is Vietnam redux. One of his classmates a 23-year old was killed last week -- for nothing. There are signs that this story is belatedly beginning to sink in across the country, but he, and I, fears that it is too late."
    I remember long ago an officer bad-mouthing the Iranians for leaving their jet fighters on the tarmac - snow and all kinds of crappy weather. (Yes, the Iranians; like I said, long ago.)