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Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurgents

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 09:17:53 AM EST
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Last week Dick Cheney said the Iraq insurgents are in their "last throes." Today on Meet the Press, Donald Rumsfeld said it will take 12 years to beat them, and U.S forces won't win. He claims the "win" will come after U.S. forces have left.

Rumsfeld, addressing a question about whether U.S. troops levels are adequate to vanquish the increasingly violent resistance, said, "We're not going to win against the insurgency. The Iraqi people are going to win against the insurgency. That insurgency could go on for any number of years. Insurgencies tend to go on five, six, eight, 10, 12 years.

"Coalition forces, foreign forces are not going to repress that insurgency," the Pentagon chief told "Fox News Sunday." "We're going to create an environment that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi security forces can win against that insurgency," he said.

Dream on.

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    Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurgents | 34 comments (34 topical)
    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    GOP Daffynictionary: "Last Throes"- A short period only lasting a dozen years or so. 12 years of this slaughter? Oy.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    Rumsfeld, in interviews on the Sunday news shows, warned that the insurgency could grow through the year as Iraqi leaders develop a constitution for a democratic government.
    Translation: Once the Iraqis get a whiff of our plans for rigged elections and privatization of industries, they will join the opposition fighters in droves.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#3)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    Ernesto - Glad to see you back attacking the evil neo-cons who are the same as OBL... (Remember, those are your words..) But let me see. You are saying that the elections will be rigged. Now, I ask you, outside of making a cheap shot, what evidence do you have of that? Now, I also ask you, what is bad about making industries privately owned? Are you saying that they must be state owned? Isn't that the socialist way? Isn't that the facist way? et al - So Rumsfeld says that after we get Iraq able to defned itself, we will leave. And this is bad? Wow.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#4)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    Is this the same Rumsfeld who said before our invasion of Iraq "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." (tip of the hat to desertswine for this quote) "We're not going to win against the insurgency. The Iraqi people are going to win against the insurgency..." So what Rumsfeld is acknowledging is that we may be in Iraq for as much as 12 years and we will still not defeat the insurgents. All 12 more years of casualties will produce is to theoretically weaken the insurgents enough for the new Iraqi government to defeat them.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    Ernesto - Glad to see you back attacking the evil neo-cons who are the same as OBL... (Remember, those are your words..)
    No, I said the Neocons were actually worse than that certain former CIA asset that we seem to have misplaced and forgotten about. BTW...do you keep a filing system on everyone that posts on here and then just cut and paste from it? You repeat exactly the same inane phrases over and over, forcing others to waste more bandwidth along with you to give the same responses again.
    But let me see. You are saying that the elections will be rigged. Now, I ask you, outside of making a cheap shot, what evidence do you have of that?
    Even you should know that if Iraq were to have a true democracy they will end up ruled by a Shi'ite government strongly linked to Iran. Israel don't like Iran, ergo neither do we...and we ain't about to let them go that way. Just like we didn't let Vietnam unite under Ho...so we killed democracy there and replaced it with a colonial occupation government.
    Now, I also ask you, what is bad about making industries privately owned? Are you saying that they must be state owned? Isn't that the socialist way? Isn't that the facist way?
    I'll let the Iraqis answer that one: At the end of our meeting, I asked Mahmud what would happen if the plant was sold despite the workers’ objections. “There are two choices,” he said, looking me in the eye and smiling kindly. “Either we will set the factory on fire and let the flames devour it to the ground, or we will blow ourselves up inside of it. But it will not be privatized.”
    et al - So Rumsfeld says that after we get Iraq able to defned itself, we will leave.
    Defend itself from who?
    And this is bad? Wow.
    Our proxy armies killing their own people. Worked great in 'Nam. This is the same exact plan. Good luck.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#6)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    Ernesto - I didn't ask you if an Iraq plant worker, probably poorly educated and dependent on that plant would think it the right thing to do, I ask YOU if you thought it was. And, as usual, you didn't answer. But I think I know your political philsophy, and your answer.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    Let's see, Rumsfeld thought the conflict would last a few days, a few months, doubting six months. Years later he says, well, maybe twelve years... Jim says they never had it so good before the AG pictures came out. I think there is a credibility problem. Jim, please, you and JR need to catch a flight to Bagdad. Take Rummy with you. They need your perspicacity in the worst way over there.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Now, I also ask you, what is bad about making industries privately owned?
    [Ken Lay] Why absolutely nothing, I think it's a wonderful idea! And maybe we can work on relaxing some of those tough regulations while we're at it...[/Ken Lay]

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#9)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    What a wonderful strategy. Now let's try the "not-win" plan against Iran, then maybe we can "not-win" against China. I'd like to see Rumsfeld hang.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Well, after a fair trial of course, and a little vacation in his own gulag system.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    The Sunni insurgency is fighting to get us out of the country. They know they are a minority and cannot control things like they did under Sadaam. But I think, and this goes against conventional wisdom, that the Sunni insurgency believes it will only get a fair deal when it is only dealing with fellow Iraqis and not Sadaam's old friend, and Iraq's new occupier, the U.S..

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    hmmmm not 11 years not 13 yeaars?

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#13)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    I imagine all the parents with 7 year olds and under can now sigh with relief. All the rest of of you start making plans to move to canada or have their kids become Young repiglicans!

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Let me ask all you right-wingers out there a question. Do you believe there are no "liberals" fighting and dying in Iraq? If you do, you are sadly mistaken. If you don't, why are you not supporting those troops by calling for Rove to apologize to them?

    Durbin needs to stop apologizing, and he, and the rest of these quaking Dems, need to call for the right-wing hack Karl Rove to apologize, and for the rest of the Reps to ask for his resignation.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Rumsfeld says "coalition forces, foreign forces are not going to repress that insurgency."

    Ok. Now who's claiming our troops aren't able to win? Perhaps, Mr. Sec., if you had seen to it the troops you put in harms way, on LIES, had the equipment necessary to fight these so-called insurgents, you wouldn't have a need to make such a claim.

    This man is a disgrace, and an utter failure!

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#16)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    I thought I would share this from a recent LA Times article (Iraqis Fear Era of Relentless Chaos, Cruelty by Patrick J. McDonnell and Ashraf Khalil). Emphasis are mine.
    As U.S. commanders wonder how to disengage from a conflict that appears increasingly unpopular at home, edgy troops grapple with an unnerving truth: Their very presence inspires the rebellion they seek to crush. "Part of the recruitment for this insurgency is fueled by the perception that we are an occupying power and have no intention of leaving," Army Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, commander of the Multinational Corps, said in a recent interview. "I think we need to make it clear that we intend to draw down, and we intend to drawn down relatively soon, and we have no aspirations here."
    Makes sense to me, but what does the commander of the Mulitnational Corps in Iraq know about the actual situation in Iraq?

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#17)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    12 Years of full employment for the young, becuase within that time this nation won't have any jobs, sounds like a plan to me! and the boys in washington can make a-lot of deals for dismantling what is "Left", of this nation state, Aztlan here we come. but just remember your time is number in years and god help you all when it happens.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Fred Dawes,

    12 years of full employment for the young, because within that time this nation won't have any jobs".

    Very interesting obvservation Fred, and I think there is much truth in it.

    This man is a disgrace, and an utter failure. He should be paying for what he has done to our troops, and to our country.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    oops-"observation"

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Jim: "Rumsfeld says that after we get Iraq able to defned itself, we will leave." HILARIOUS. And you really believe him? PERMANENT airbases. A war which Cheney uses to threaten us by saying it will go on for our entire lifetimes. If the 'war' will go on for our entire lifetimes (or until the USPNAC is busted and brought before the bar of justice), then those airbases are going to stay. If the airbases are going to stay, then the 'Iraqis' are not going to beat the insurgency -- US troops are going to be dying in that effort FOREVER. The pipelines aren't "only for 12 years." And this "tend to last for X years" BULLSH*T is really ripe, like most of Rumsfeld's treason. The airbases were the cause of the invasion. They are not going to give them up, which means that either Iraq will be dismantled (genocide), or the Iraqi people will be fighting the illegal imposition of airbases on false pretences ALONG WITH US for as long as it takes. "There is no more Iraq -- there will be three territories." -- Genocidist H. F* Kissinger, early 2004.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Of course the airbases are permanent, and there will be a whole lot more where those came from in time, all over the ME. This is the PNAC agenda, it's not about pulling out, it's simply about going forward until all the conquering is done.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    Paul in LA,

    "The airbases were the cause of the invasion. They are not going to give them up..."You are exactly right. I'm glad you posted this again, because I don't think you understood my post the other day. I was talking about Dems strategy, not my opinions, or what the truth about this whole disasterous PNAC plan is.

    I also have been calling for, and petitioning for, investigations for war crimes. For a long time, as a matter of fact. Keep stating the facts behind this absolute disaster. It's important to keep them out there in everyone's face.

    Again, I have been saying this since before the invasion of Iraq. This is about oil, and having a foothold in the ME. The plan is to REMAIN THERE for a very, very long time. Anything they say to the contrary is a lie.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#23)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    Cheetah, I have been against the war and occupation of Iraq, but I have never been strong on the arguement that this war was about oil. Still, it is interesting that representatives of British and American oil companies will be meeting next week to carve up Iraq's oil reserves for themselves. I have a suggestion. Lets put the corporate logos from our oil corporations on the uniforms of our troops in Iraq.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    john horse,

    Great link. I hope others read it as well. Did the story change your mind any? Let's follow this story, see if it gets much coverage here. Want to make a wager?

    Great final comment!

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    Do Cheney and Rumsfeld ever speak? One says the insurgency is in its "last throes", the other says it could take 12 years to break them. Looks like nobody knows what the heck is going on in the neo-con playground. Let the impeachment begin, the most incompetent administration of our lifetimes! At a time the world needed competence and intelligence more than ever. Instead we got greedy war-mongers who think every problem is solved by military might and favors for friends. Our children will suffer for this.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    The cognitive dissonance of competing lies. cheetah, I don't recall the thread you're referencing, but if it involved attacking Dems for not satisfying your expectations, count me out. I am FAR more concerned about resignations and retirements, than I am about how the strategy is going. NO strategy will succeed until the Rs decide to fight for the Constitution themselves. It was possible to doubt the full extent of USPNAC treason, at first. Those times have passed.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    12 years at what $75 billion a year? This is a great investment, I mean at nearly a trillion dollars we should have a decent little democracy in a country the size of what, Oregon? These guys are good. They can build a nation in 15 years for only One Trillion dollars and cannot figure out how to make social security viable long term. I only wish I was half as smart.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    Paul in La, It was in a thread from Fri., update on Iraq, and I was not attacking Dems for anything. Again you make an assumption. Oh well, never mind.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    I say we just make Iraq our 51st state, put a Major League Baseball team in Baghdad--in the National League, so they have to visit Washington at least once a year--and be done with it. If it's gonna take 12 years of fighting, we might as well just annex the country and make everyone over there US citizens.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    but if it involved attacking Dems for not satisfying your expectations, count me out.
    Paul, your arguments often express righteous indignation, but refusing to acknowledge the complicity of the Democratic Party in aiding the PNAC/Neoconservative agenda dilutes your moral certainty. How can you support individuals who support a Neoconservative agenda? Will Marshall? Al From? Bill Nelson? Evan Bayh? Will Marshall has frequently signed off on the bloody PNAC documents calling for further intensification of a militarist middle east strategy!!! Yep, that's Will's signature right next to William Kristol's. That whilst he remains "President" of the "Progressive Policy Institute" think tank for the DLC and the "New Democrats", featuring members the likes of one Hillary Rodham Clinton. No one is twisting their arm. Better to say that some Democrats are opposed to Neoconservative War Corporatism than to place support Carte Blanche where it isn't deserved.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    "How can you support individuals who support a Neoconservative agenda?" Whom are they? You name a bunch of wonks who do not hold elected political power, and call that the party. I got news for you - the Dem party is well over 100 million people. Our representatives are sent to power in the legal, Constitutional democracy. They are not sent into coups expected to make everyone happy in an impossible situation. For the record, the actual elected officials in the Congress voted NAY 60%/Nay 50% in the House/Senate. John Kerry OUTED the USPNAC airbases scandal during the first debate. Howard Dean actively opposed the war. So did Kennedy and Byrd, Pelosi and Boxer. John Conyers is actively working hard to overcome this coup. Hillary Clinton is the junior Senator from NY. She is not the Democratic party, no matter how much the winger's have convinced you to think she is. ALL of my friends will be voting for John Conyers, or Howard Dean, if John Kerry or Al Gore doesn't want to run. Now give me anything like a fair election, and watch this country change back into its former, MUCH safer, saner democracy. We got a lot of problems, and you want somebody to blame. I BLAME BUSH

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    On topic, I want to note that a helicopter was shot out of the sky in Iraq today -- THANKS, Donald. Rumsfeld's criminally-negligent war plan FAILED to write a single order to protect munitions and materiel inside Iraq. The Pentagon/WH admits that it has allowed 450 shoulder-fired missiles to be transfered to the hostiles. One of these missiles, meet one of our helicopters. 449 still missing. -- Posted by cheetah: "I was not attacking Dems for anything." I was responding less to you in that comment, and more to disaffected TS and others who didn't get the news that there has been a coup. With trillions of dollars being funneled into military spending (and corporate pockets), I simply don't expect my representatives to succeed stopping it during a coup by those same corporations. It is crucial that they stay on the job, trying to find a political solution.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#33)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    PIL writes:
    ALL of my friends will be voting for John Conyers, or Howard Dean, if John Kerry or Al Gore doesn't want to run.
    One can only hope.

    Re: Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurg (none / 0) (#35)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    The Democratic party doesn't exist in my mind. They have become, despite some notable exceptions, Repub lite. All you have to do is look at the role call vote for the bankruptcy bill. As a whole they have not been very outspoken about the war, because they know its about the oil. Both parties will back the corporations over the individual. It just that the Repubs have more people who want to install a theocracy. I have stopped giving money to the democratic party but will give it to individual dems who are progressives. PPJ - the confluence of a mounting current account deficit and the arrival of peak oil will mean that in 2008 Repubs will have trouble being elected dog catcher. Unfortunately by that time no one will be able to fix the problems in any reasonable time. So winning the 2008 election will be like being named captain of the titanic just as its going under water.

    Rumsfeld: It Will Take 12 Years to Beat Insurgents | 34 comments (34 topical)