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Homeward Bound from Iraq

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 11:59:35 PM EST
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If one state passes such a resolution, it's an event. If 25 of the 50 states pass one, it will be a movement. Contact your state legislators and encourage them to do what legisators in Oregon are proposing:

A group of nineteen Oregon Democrats unveiled a bill Monday that asks the Bush administration to come up with a timeline for withdrawing US Forces from Iraq. Their move comes after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Sunday that US troops could be in the country for up to twelve years.

The Homeward Bound Act of Oregon piggybacks on a bill introduced in Congress earlier this month. It is co-sponsored by Republican Walter Jones of North Carolina, renowned for his efforts to rename French Fries, Freedom Fries.

Jones has changed his views on the war and now wants to force President Bush to announce a withdrawal plan by the end of 2005. Northeast Portland Democrat, Chip Shields, says the Oregon bill may be symbolic, but it could be powerful.

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    Homeward Bound from Iraq | 21 comments (21 topical)
    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    Johnny,

    I use Firefox as well, but have no problems like that. Have you updated recently?

    I have had the same problem with my Sens. and Rep., all quite right-wing.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#3)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    I do hope that Dems everywhere get behind this movement.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#4)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    Ha, now we're fighting fire with fire. We all know the subliminal connotations of the "flip-flopper" propaganda campaign... But now the Republicans will have to speak out against a bill that reminds people of a movie with lovable courageous animals! Not to mention they will have to once again argue against "the troops", as if slashing their pay and healthcare wasn't enough. Say, if only there were a political party smart enough to, I dunno, string the never-ending parade of middle fingers the Republicans give to our soldiers into a narrative...

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#5)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    Scar: Myself being one of the active duty troops, I am most keen in seeing when my pay and healthcare has been cut so I may complain. Can you remind me when it was cut?

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    Thursday, August 14, 2003 Printable Version Email This Article Disclaimer Washington -- The Pentagon wants to cut the pay of its 148,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, who are already contending with guerrilla-style attacks, homesickness and 120- degree-plus heat. Unless Congress and President Bush take quick action when Congress returns after Labor Day, the uniformed Americans in Iraq and the 9,000 in Afghanistan will lose a pay increase approved last April of $75 a month in "imminent danger pay" and $150 a month in "family separation allowances."

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#7)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    thanks to Democrats, who screamed about this we had the next story: A day after supporting a plan to cut combat pay to U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Pentagon backtracked and supported a pay extension. The pay cut, which was planned to equally deduct pay increases begun in April, would roll back "imminent danger pay" by $75 a month and "family separation allowances" for the Armed Forces by $150 a month. Last April, the House and Senate increased the "imminent danger pay" for the first time in more than a decade from $150 a month to $225. The "family separation allowances" was increased from $100 a month to $250. Those increases - which were retroactive to last October - are set to expire on Sept. 30 unless Congress and the president continue the provisions. A day after the disclosure of a planned pay cut for U.S. troops, the DoD assured the public that they endorsed an extension of benefits. If Congress doesn't vote to renew the increases in Family Separation and Imminent Danger Pay, the DoD will use "other authority available to the department to make up for any shortfalls," a DoD press release stated.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    Hey Wile, have you been over to Iraq or Afghanistan yet in your capacity as active duty military? Do you want to go? Sincere questions, no insult or innuendo, frankly curious. On Firefox compatibility - I didn't know that Firefox was especially problematic for this site. I am registering and re-registering constantly, plus I am getting redirected to the screen that wants me to take out a TL ad about half the time. I have been waiting for someone else to mention frustration, wondering if it was something in my local computer settings that had suddenly gone awry. Can we fix, TL?

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#9)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    CA: Iraq at the beginning.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    I would cut the pay of those serving and fighting in Iraq, too. They should be winning this war, but they're not. The US is losing helicopters, tanks, humvees, etc. Make the soldiers who survive pay for those military hardware items. If you break it, you pay. Either they start winning this war and stop losing all of their equipment, or they need to pay for it. I'm tired of paying for this losing and not getting my money's worth. Cut their pay. Make it hurt even more. Increase the pay of Halliburton employees and Kellog employees. They deserve to be paid more. Enough of this high cost of the war. Why, I oughta...

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#11)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    Donald Rumsfeld said Sunday that US troops could be in the country for up to twelve years.
    It's a minor point, but that's not what Rumsfield said. He was talking about how long it would take the new Iraqi government to defeat the insurgents. How long U.S. troops are involved, and how many, and in what capacity, is still a mystery. He also said "any number of years" and just gave twelve as an example of a number.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#12)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    Hey the sad part of this story is bush never had a plan of war so how can we get out of one in iraq that he said was not a war? and said it was over? sounds like bush is one more LBJ. oh yes, bush will do a full disclosure on the non war today, what a joke.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    Roy, The Iraqis can't fight the insurgency until we get out. And who's to say when we get out, the insurgency won't stop? Or that the insurgency getting us out might not make the Iraqis feel like they actually accomplished something? As long as we are there, the insurgency will fight. What have they got to fight for when we're gone? To simply destroy the country? We've done a good job of that on our own. The path we are following is essentially the failed path of Vietnam, where we believed we could bomb a country into submission, impose our will and snap our fingers and create a "democracy".

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    I guess I have a hunch, that when we leave, the Iraqis will feel more unified than they ever have before. Unpleasant ironies aside, they will have done something no one else has. Gotten us out in a timely fashion. Now, all those military bases being built isn't encouraging, but if we can manage to let these people decide their own fate we might be able to leave the place without a base, or even the need for one.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#15)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    that last post sounded like i thought bases MIGHT be necessary. i don't think this, but the opposite. that bases should NOT be put there.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#16)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    Dadler,
    The Iraqis can't fight the insurgency until we get out.
    That might be true, but leaving too soon won't help. The Iraqi police and military won't suddenly become better trained and equipped overnight just because we leave.
    As long as we are there, the insurgency will fight. What have they got to fight for when we're gone?
    You know they mostly kill Iraqis, not foriegners, right? Are you suggesting that they'll stop killing Iraqi police and army personel? Stop blowing up Iraqi voters? Stop kidnapping sympathetic journalists and aid workers? Stop blowing up Iraqis waiting in line at banks and markets? If so, what line of reasoning leads you to that conclusion? I don't buy them feeling "unified" when we leave, it's hard to feel warm and fuzzy about somebody who tried to kill you for the crime of voting. As for what they're fighting for, I think it's simple: they're fighting for the ability to force their will on their neighbors. They'll still fight for that when/if we leave, and they'll do a very good job of it if we leave too soon.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#17)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    I should hastily concede that I don't know when "too soon" is, as I don't have any practical experience in nation building.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    Roy, It doesn't matter what I think, it matters what Iraqis are thinking. The insurgency is largely Sunni, we know that, and we've alread talked to some of their leaders, in the hopes of starting a dialogue. Hmm. Seems our leaders are starting to think the same thing I am. The Sunnis are a minority, aren't stupid, know their era of dominance is over. This is a fight to get us out. And perhaps, pride swallower of all pride swallowers, it might be better for us to leave now, say we got rid of sadaam, and let these people decide the fate of their own land. Or else, I fear, like we might have already, we risk a no-win situation, where our bull-in-a-china-shop attitude and actions have gone past the point of PR repair and credibility restoration. Unless we're only worried about our short-term image. Which is always the case, I suspect.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#19)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    Wile, stop by the VA sometime and ask them how compassionate Bush has turned out to be.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    The whole discussion of when the USPNAC should withdraw is seriously brain-damaged. With major, permanent airbases in Afghanistan, Qatar, and Iraq, USPNAC is NEVER leaving. NEVER is a lot longer than 12 years, and Rumsfeld knows it. Maybe he should change NORAD's rules of engagement again, and give the American public another jolt of terror. He sure has delivered for Former Iraq.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Roy, I agree rumsfeld's remarks were as you stated, but this is still the guy that Feb. 7, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.". You might enjoy the whole article.

    Re: Homeward Bound from Iraq (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Bush, 6/99 - "I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." Bush June 25 2005 "President Bush yesterday rejected calls from Congress to set a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq"

    Homeward Bound from Iraq | 21 comments (21 topical)