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Calls for Rove's Resignation

By Jeralyn, Section Valerie Plame Leak Case
Posted on Mon Jul 11, 2005 at 01:29:36 PM EST
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Liberal groups and blogs are calling for Rove's resignation:

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid just released this statement (received via e-mail)

Washington, DC – “I agree with the President when he said he expects the people who work for him to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. The White House promised if anyone was involved in the Valerie Plame affair, they would no longer be in this administration. I trust they will follow through on this pledge. If these allegations are true this rises above politics and is about our national security.”

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    Calls for Rove's Resignation | 41 comments (41 topical)
    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:05 PM EST
    resigning is the LEAST he could do or suffer. can he also be publicly blanched for a few minutes in a vat of his own steaming b.s.?

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:05 PM EST
    i mean, could i, as a private citizen get away with disclosing such info because i didn't like someone? in this atomosphere? i be public enemy traitor at home number one. And I'd be Patriot Acted and up on charges as fast as you could say PlameGame. the higher-ups should fall further, at least one would assume. but you never know with this administration. so far they've been able to weasel like no others. no offense to literal weasels.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#3)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:05 PM EST
    Demos - Calls for Rove's Resignation Dog bites man.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#4)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:05 PM EST
    “Liberal groups and blogs are calling for Rove's resignation … MoveOn.pac” Some involved in MoveOn would like to distance themselves/MoveOn from the leftist liberal activist image. Charles Fazio the host of one of the upcoming MoveON parties (i.e. fundraiser to block GW’s Supreme nominees) in the Washington, DC area likely covered by the Washington Post released some interesting instructions for his guests … “We don't want to come across as leftist, liberal activists. We want to come across as we are- regular folks who are finally saying enough is enough to the extremists; that we're not falling for their extremist rhetoric anymore and we're finally going to expend the effort necessary to get our country back.” … “Oh, because a photographer will be here, might I suggest we put away our ‘Bush is a Liar’ t-shirts. Let's look like they do.” Seems there are some cooler heads attuned to the mainstream; a bit of distance from the Nazi/war criminal rhetoric may swing MoveOn within mortar range of mainstream America.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:05 PM EST
    Posted by PPJ aka Jim at July 11, 2005 03:08 PM Demos - Calls for Rove's Resignation Dog bites man.
    Rove did it and the facts are nipping at his heels. Bites dog man.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#6)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:05 PM EST
    Meanwhile, in a typical distract and evade operation, GOP operatives are hounding Senator Clinton over her criticism of President Bush's attitude toward the spiraling budget. Dog bites Hillary.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#7)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:05 PM EST
    That should read "budget deficit."

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    every patriotic person should be calling for rove's head. No american should countenance putting political revenge over national security. pw, assuming your comments about moveon were made seriously, the nazi|bush ad was contributed, along with thousands of others, by folks who entered an ad contest. moveon took it off the site as soon as they were made aware of the content. Holding moveon responsible is just as wrong as holding TL responsible for comments in these threads.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#9)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Lab - It's no fun when you have to explain'em. "Dog bites man" is an old saying that something is not news. Such as Demos demanding Rove resign.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Perhaps Rove is guilty as charged by the fever-swamps of the Left and if he is guilty of divulging Ms.Plame's identity then would he be guilty of identifying a covert agent or just a desk jockey. As it would appear Plame was a former undercover operative but has since been flying a desk at HQ and getting her husband nice roadtrips to have tea with African leaders and be well compensated for his time. Perhaps a bit of nepotism? Who cares? The other angle is that the "Master of Evil" Karl Rove is just putting chum in the water to attract his real quarrey, the reactive Left, the "I can't resist a sound-bite" Dems and people in the press such as Terry Moran. Before I'd take this bait I think I would make a few more passes around my prey. But I may be wrong.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    No need to wait for Karl Rove to resign or be indicted. You can pronounce your own verdict and sentence on Rove today.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#12)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    MSNBC countdown
    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#13)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    sailor writes;
    every patriotic person should be calling for rove's head. No american should countenance putting political revenge over national security.
    The question remains, what did Rove do? We now know he identified her as Wilson's wife who worked at the CIA. Was she covert? Read what this NyTimes article said.
    But other former C.I.A. officers say that by 2003 Ms. Wilson's cover was already thin. Any serious inquiry would have revealed that Brewster Jennings was little more than a mailbox. Though she traveled regularly, Ms. Wilson, who speaks French, German and Greek, had been working for some time at agency headquarters in Langley, Va. And her marriage to a senior American diplomat, Mr. Wilson, ended any pretense of having no government ties. "At that point, she looks, walks and quacks like an overt agency employee," said Fred Rustmann, a C.I.A. officer from 1966 to 1990, who supervised Ms. Wilson early in her career and calls her "one of the best, an excellent officer."
    BTW - The practice of rendition has been thoroughly condemned. Did the reporters who identified the shell companies concealing CIA airplanes break the law? Now remember. Many of these aircraft were most probably used for perfectly normal spy craft activities having nothing to do with detainees, but everything to do with other national security programs. Hypocrites any one?

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#14)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Somebody outed a jet?

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    bush -"We're talking about a criminal action." the cia made the referral to justice. novak wrote
    "Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him. "I will not answer any question about my wife," Wilson told me.
    The NYT article said nothing of the sort, they just quoted ex-cia officials who are indebted to the gov't for private security contracts. The agent named left in '90, pretty much out 'o touch except for being called on to lie for the admin. Furthering the admin's

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#16)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Che - No, a CIA front company. You know, something the evil Rove also did. Sailor - The quote is from the NYT article, not exactly a source that could be considered friendly to the admin. But BIOR.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#17)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    So Rove outed the jets also? Or were they just planes posing as jets? Valerie Planes. This is big.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    More PB&J on Rather: Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at November 24, 2004 11:15 PM glanton - Cleverness is not your strong suit. "If you really think he lied on purpose to get Bush then i can see why you think he's disgraced. But the facts don't support that." The question is simply, what facts do you have that don't support Rather's desire to attack Bush - you do remember his famous exchange with GHWB, don't you? - and his general position as carrying the water for the Demos. Then we have the fact that he rushed the memos into the limelight, even though his own experts were urging caution. And don't blame the female producer. Rather had 100% editorial control and he excercised it. And even after any reasonable person would have backed away, we have him arguing that they were fake, but accurate, using a very aged person. At the same time, he was ignoring the family who were in total disagreement. Reasonable reporters don't make mistakes like that. They just don't. He wanted an October suprise and to get Bush. Why the double standard? Why is a SOCIAL LIBERAL so protective of Rove and so critical of Dan Rather?????

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Q Scott, if I could -- if I could point out, contradictory to that statement, on September 29th, 2003, while the investigation was ongoing, you clearly commented on it. You were the first one who said, if anybody from the White House was involved, they would be fired. And then on June 10th of 2004, at Sea Island Plantation, in the midst of this investigation is when the President made his comment that, yes, he would fire anybody from the White House who was involved. So why have you commented on this during the process of the investigation in the past, but now you've suddenly drawn a curtain around it under the statement of, "We're not going to comment on an ongoing investigation"? Q Excuse me, but I wasn't actually talking about any investigation. But in June of 2004, the President said that he would fire anybody who was involved in this leak, to press of information. And I just want to know, is that still his position? Q So could I just ask, when did you change your mind to say that it was okay to comment during the course of an investigation before, but now it's not? Q Scott, can I ask you this; did Karl Rove commit a crime? Q Do you stand by your statement from the fall of 2003 when you were asked specifically about Karl and Elliott Abrams and Scooter Libby, and you said, "I've gone to each of those gentlemen, and they have told me they are not involved in this" -- do you stand by that statement? Q Scott, I mean, just -- I mean, this is ridiculous. The notion that you're going to stand before us after having commented with that level of detail and tell people watching this that somehow you decided not to talk. You've got a public record out there. Do you stand by your remarks from that podium, or not? Q Why are you choosing when it's appropriate and when it's inappropriate? Q No, you're not finishing -- you're not saying anything. You stood at that podium and said that Karl Rove was not involved. And now we find out that he spoke out about Joseph Wilson's wife. So don't you owe the American public a fuller explanation? Was he involved, or was he not? Because, contrary to what you told the American people, he did, indeed, talk about his wife, didn't he? Q Well, you're in a bad spot here, Scott, because after the investigation began, after the criminal investigation was underway, you said -- October 10th, 2003, "I spoke with those individuals, Rove, Abrams and Libby, as I pointed out, those individuals assured me they were not involved in this." From that podium. That's after the criminal investigation began. Now that Rove has essentially been caught red-handed peddling this information, all of a sudden you have respect for the sanctity of the criminal investigation? Q Do you recall when you were asked -- Q Wait, wait -- so you're now saying that after you cleared Rove and the others from that podium, then the prosecutors asked you not to speak anymore, and since then, you haven't? Q When did they ask you to stop commenting on it, Scott? Can you peg down a date? Q Well, then the President commented on it nine months later. So was he not following the White House plan? Q We are going to keep asking them. When did the President learn that Karl Rove had had a conversation with the President -- with a news reporter about the involvement of Joseph Wilson's wife and the decision to send -- Q When did the President learn that Karl Rove had -- Q After the investigation is completed, will you then be consistent with your word and the President's word that anybody who was involved would be let go? Q And a follow-up. Can you walk us through why, given the fact that Rove's lawyer has spoken publicly about this, it is inconsistent with the investigation, that it compromises the investigation to talk about the involvement of Karl Rove, the Deputy Chief of Staff? Q Scott, there's a difference between commenting on an investigation and taking an action -- Q Does the President continue to have confidence in Mr. Rove? Q So you're not going to respond as to whether or not the President has confidence in his Deputy Chief of Staff? Q Has there been any change or is there a plan for Mr. Rove's portfolio to be altered in any way? Q There's a difference between commenting publicly on an action and taking action in response to it. Newsweek put out a story, an email saying that Karl Rove passed national security information on to a reporter that outed a CIA officer. Now, are you saying that the President is not taking any action in response to that? Because I presume that the prosecutor did not ask you not to take action, and that if he did, you still would not necessarily abide by that; that the President is free to respond to news reports, regardless of whether there's an investigation or not. So are you saying that he's not going to do anything about this until the investigation is fully over and done with? Q But you acknowledge that he is free, as President of the United States, to take whatever action he wants to in response to a credible report that a member of his staff leaked information. He is free to take action if he wants to. Q Scott, what was the President's interaction today with Karl Rove? Did they discuss this current situation? And understanding that Karl Rove was the architect of the President's win for the second term in the Oval Office, how important is Karl Rove to this administration currently? Q Who is Karl Rove as it relates to this administration? Q No, no, no, no. Who is Karl Rove as it relates to this current administration? Q Scott, I think you're barrage today in part because we -- it is now clear that 21 months ago, you were up at this podium saying something that we now know to be demonstratively false. Now, are you concerned that in not setting the record straight today that this could undermine the credibility of the other things you say from the podium? Q Scott, at this point, are we to consider what you've said previously, when you were talking about this, that you're still standing by that, or are those all inoperative at this point?

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 10, 2003 11:09 AM Looks like the story had no legs, although God knows the press tried everyway possible to prop it up. RE: Plame investigation dying down. http://talkleft.com/new_archives/004610.html#004610 Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 10, 2003 12:08 PM Larry In newspaper talk, "No legs" means that the public has no interest. (Think party of the first part type of thing in lawyer speak.) And right wing lap dog media? Surely you jest. Have you told Jennings, Rather, et al of their new political position? I just wish I could see their face when you do. If the Bush administration was guilty of anything it was keeping these Clinton people aroind. http://talkleft.com/new_archives/004610.html#004610 Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 11, 2003 01:33 PM Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman They’ve taken away your number and given out your name Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman The Left is in a dither and know Rove is who to blame Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman Your husband has protested, yet no one has been arrested Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman They've taken away your number and given out your a name Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman The Left is in a dither and know Bush is who to blame With apologies to the writers and actors of one the all time best TV series. The Devil made me do this. http://talkleft.com/new_archives/004610.html#004610 Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 12, 2003 05:22 PM By golly RA, well said. Now serial, let us explore memory failures. Hillary Clinton couldn't remember that she had stored Rose Law firm records in her closet... The Clinton adminstration had a worker bee who pulled over 1100 personal files from the FBI, who could never remember who had hired him! Want some more? Maybe later if you are good. http://talkleft.com/new_archives/004610.html#004610

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    this one is my favorite: Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 31, 2003 10:10 AM Wilson suggests that the outing of his wife was an act of revenge for his untoward comments a few weeks before against the war, the administration, etc. Possible. He should have remembered that it was the Democrats under Clinton who claimed that politics was a "blood sport," and expected a little love tap in return. He also claims that a "journalist" told him that Karl Rove had just said that Wilson's wife was fair game. I would enjoying knowing who that journalist is, because, if the statement is true, Karl Rove knows who it was he made the comment. If that guy's speciality is "White House," he's going to need a new line of work. http://talkleft.com/new_archives/004845.html#004845

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Sorry bolded the wrong one: He also claims that a "journalist" told him that Karl Rove had just said that Wilson's wife was fair game. I would enjoying knowing who that journalist is, because, if the statement is true, Karl Rove knows who it was he made the comment. If that guy's speciality is "White House," he's going to need a new line of work.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#23)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    From same thread as above: Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 31, 2003 01:11 PM DA I wasn't challenging the messenger's accuracy, just his judgment in identifying Rove as the source to Wilson. Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 31, 2003 04:13 PM Yeah, must have been taking lessons from Clinton and his merry band. Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at January 1, 2004 08:10 PM Interesting that you mention the Travel Office scandal. Those people who didn't practice "blood sport," ruined some lives in an almost effortless manner. Perhaps that is what Foster was referring to. In any event, it took a jury about zip point one second to clear the manager of all charges. Yes, the Clintons were so lovable. If you were a FOB. "As it is, why isn't President Bush still keeping the man who leaked the information on his staff?" What do you mean? Do you mean that Bush knows, and has dismissed? Or do you mean why is he keeping the man? That presumes he knows, in which I would assume he would turn him over. You obviously think he would not. As to why Ms Plame was kept after her useful days as a covert operator, and Ames certainly blew her cover, who knows? Training? Old contacts? The list is almost endless. I'm still giving odds on no indictment. Interesting that Wilson didn't identify Mathews, rather than using the "journalist" ID.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#24)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    JL&bs writes:
    Why the double standard? Why is a SOCIAL LIBERAL so protective of Rove and so critical of Dan Rather?????
    Is a social liberal, or anyone for that matter, not supposed to be upset with the actions of Rather, his co-workers and CBS in the matter of the fake TANG memos? Do you advocate such actions? Good heavens. Let us return to the topic. I invite you to re-read my 11:33AM comment. You will see, as Scott described it, a reasoned description, including quotes and links, of the motives of Wilson and the motives of Rove. I say the motive for Rove's actions were anger at Wilson's actions. Since that establishes an easily understood basis, motive if you please, for the actions that Rove is now under attack for, how is that a defense? I would think any prosecutor would love for the defendant’s motives to be defined and demonstrated. You are invited to attack me for asking the following questions. Why didn’t the CIA send a professional to Niger? Did anyone look at Wilson’s anti-war position? Wouldn’t a reasonable manager within the CIA want someone with NO bias? If I were running the CIA, that manager would be fired on the spot for that reason, and that reason alone. Why did Wilson go? What part in his going was played by his wife? Why was she involved at all? It is a flat fact that emotional involvement is an absolute no-no in military matters. I would think it to be ten times more so in the CIA. What was her position on the war? Was she anti? You may also attack me for the following positions. This is a tempest in a teapot. Plame was as covert as the Washington Monument, and I invite you to re-read by comment on this thread on 7/11 at 7:22PM. Rove was angry, and said what he said. But he didn’t break the law. He serves at Bush's pleasure. I would fire him for loss of temper and lapse of judgement. But it would be AFTER this has passed. Make what you want of that.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    PB&J: Funny Jim, when your hypocrisy and calluousness toward Valerie Plame is documented and repeated in your own words over the last two years, you suddenly talk about maybe firing him. You were quick to attack her husband and the investigation and defend it by saying that is politics and both sides were trying to get at each other. Valerie and her husband if they were in fact collaborating, were acting on BEHALF of the American Citizens as they clearly KNEW the yellow cake story was a flat out lie. Rove was acting out of spite and revenge. Your position on this matter and nearly every other one is one of protecting the administration at all costs. Your words up there PB&J, not mine. Your words clearly state that " If that guy's speciality is "White House," he's going to need a new line of work." Let's let the other readers decide for themselves as to whether or not you are a hypocrite and maintain double standards, or whether I am intellectually dishonest and a blowhard.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#26)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Jim, your fatal flaw is constantly believing that everyone else is stupid enough to follow your line of reasoning. You're squirming like a nightcrawler about to be put on the hook. LOL.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#27)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    JL - Gee. I have read through them all, and my favorite is the take-off on "Secret Agent Man." I stand by all I said. The comments were made based on information available at that time. I particularly like this one:
    He also claims that a "journalist" told him that Karl Rove had just said that Wilson's wife was fair game. I would enjoying knowing who that journalist is, because, if the statement is true, Karl Rove knows who it was he made the comment. If that guy's speciality is "White House," he's going to need a new line of work.
    Now. Who was the journalist? Was it Cooper? Did he leave out such a juicy tidbit in his emails? I just can't see that. Was it Miller? Could be. It would explain why Miller doesn’t want to talk and is willing to spend a few months in jail. BTW – You stated that I was not consistent. I think you have proved yourself wrong.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#28)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Sailor- “assuming your comments about moveon were made seriously,” It was. I find it interesting that some in MoveOn find association with the more inflammatory rhetoric/members uncomfortable. Take the ‘lets try and look like them’ comment. From my perspective of what is mainstream MoveOn should seem extreme and vitriolic, and I estimate there are a few in MoveOn that see this as well. I see the far left caught up in its message, alienating folks, at the expense of what could be positive change. It reminds me of an Onion headline I read a while back, “Gay rights parade sets gay rights back 50 years”. “Holding moveon responsible is just as wrong as holding TL responsible for comments in these threads.” The analogy misses a bit; MoveOn is its members, who’s character is reflected in part by the kinds of submissions we are talking about. And further, the war criminal rhetoric is easily separated from the single inflammatory Nazi ad. I could imagine the results of an informal poll of MoveOn members on say Donald Rumsfeld’s criminal culpability. As to TL responsibility for comments here; TL actively regulates comments and commenters. You could legitimately question why they allow anyone to comment, me for example.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#29)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    Che - Unfortunately, neither you or JL can prove your statements. He said I was defending Rove in my memo about motives. Anyone can see otherwise. He said I was not consistent. (Or was that Dadler? So many opponents, so little time.) I have been totally consistent.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#30)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    JL&bs writes:
    Valerie and her husband if they were in fact collaborating, were acting on BEHALF of the American Citizens as they clearly KNEW the yellow cake story was a flat out lie.
    Hmmm. I think we have a CIA for that. In fact, isn't it illegal to act as a representative of the US government if you are not? Of course I don’t believe Wilson did that. But I am very curious as to why, and how, he was involved in the first place. That was a total mistake by someone. And don't the Brits still believe the yellowcake story? It was, after all, their story Bush was quoting. Your claim is that Bush knew that it wasn’t true. Impossible to prove, but easy to claim. Callous? I would save that term for someone who is actively against the war policy. They have to know that military lives are at stake, and imperiled. Do I have sympathy for the Wilson and his wife? Nope. Not a bit. He is, and I suspect she is, anti-war. Their right to be so, my right to disapprove. And my reason for firing Rove would be his loss of temper. You also write:
    Your position on this matter and nearly every other one is one of protecting the administration at all costs. Your words up there PB&J, not mine. Your words clearly state that " If that guy's speciality is "White House," he's going to need a new line of work."
    Let me see. I make a statement that the Bush White House will be vindictive, and you think that is defending them? Good lord! Have you lost all logic in your rage and desire to beat me? JL&bs, I am LOL.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Please cut and paste your statement that says Bush WH will be vindictive. Your claim that the reporter will not have access to the WH is not vindictive nor did you intend for it to be so. It was merely a claim that WH reporters "should know better'. N Notice that you do not ever fault the administration or Rove in any of your comments until NOW. On all previous posts, you were "explaining" the reasoning behind the behavior not condemning it or even speaking out against it. You are applauding it in most cases. Like here: Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at October 15, 2004 07:21 PM Joe Bob - Some good stuff you puffin? This tempest in a teapot is as fake as the tears cried over Clinton's BJ's. Best I can tell everyone in DC knew who she was. Hard to out someone who has been alrady outed. But if you need a villian, I give you Bob Novaak. Freedom of the press aside, he should have been more reponsible than to do what he did. So now it is Novak's fault NOT the leaker? Where are your supporting statements PB&J????? Perhaps you should call some friends to get some support, you are drowning.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Add John Kerry to the list calling for Rove's resignation, and urging supporters to sign a petition.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#33)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    JL&bs - I wrote:
    " If that guy's speciality is "White House," he's going to need a new line of work."
    So what does that say. It says the White House will force him out of his job. If that isn't saying "vindictive" I don't know what is. And yes, Novak was the first to put in the press. He shouldn't have. But he claims that he asked and wasn’t told not to. I guess the person who told him that didn't know she was a covert agent. ;-) You know, you make a lot of claims, but they are just that. I write a comment about Wilson's and Rove's motives, and you claim I am defending Rove. You post a half dozen or more comments from the archives and I stand behind them. You never challenge my questions about why Wilson was picked, except to make some half baked comment about Mr. and Mrs. Wilson working together for the good of the country. And no one has yet produced a link that says the Brits don’t believe Saddam was trying to buy yellowcake. Let me write you a little scene. The time is January 03. The players are the speech writers working on the SOTU: Player 1 – “ How about this comment on the Brits saying Saddam was trying to buy yellowcake from Niger? Player 2 –“ Dunno. I understand the CIA had this guy Wilson go over and investigate for about a week.” Player 1 - “What’d he find?” Player 2 – “He didn’t find anything. But he says they didn’t” Player 1 – “No report? No evidence?” Player 2 – “Nope.” Player 1 – “To heck with it. I believe the Brits’ intelligence agency. Keep huffing and puffung, JL&bs.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Let's also remind ourselves of the glee you had in her outing, and how you take no glee in Rove's complicity. Your words are not critical of Rove or the administration and you never used "vindictive" or mentioned his resignation until I went through the archive and proved your BS. You frequently label people that say something negative about Bush or the admin, as BHAW's. You are a BLAW. Or a DHAW. Again, for old times sake let's see your celebration over the outing of a CIA agent by a senior Bush Admin Official: Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) at December 11, 2003 01:33 PM Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman They’ve taken away your number and given out your name Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman The Left is in a dither and know Rove is who to blame Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman Your husband has protested, yet no one has been arrested Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman They've taken away your number and given out your a name Secret Agent Woman, Secret Agent Woman The Left is in a dither and know Bush is who to blame With apologies to the writers and actors of one the all time best TV series. The Devil made me do this. Not quite the patriot your purport to be.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Funny, I still do not see vindictive in your previous posts that you are mentioning. Also, I don't need to defend or castigate Wilson, he is a patriot. Stop trying to change the subject and fold. You were "all in" a while ago with pocket bullets, the flop came, the turn came, the river went, my flush beat your pocket rockets silly. Let's let the readers decide, I for one believe you to be a fraud and disingenuous, I believe CHE has seconded (sp) the motion and your words speak volumes.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#36)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    PPJ isn't a fraud, he really believes what he says. The only thing we can do is encourage him to express and think, since as free Americans we all have that right and, ultimately, responsibility. The truth is, I suspect we could all go out and have a beer with Jim and shoot the sh*t and play some poker and talk sports and be absolutely fine. It's politics that keeps us from really connecting. Yeah yeah, he can be obnoxious, we all can, but what fun is this site if all we do is stroke our own opinions and preach to the converted. PPJ is about as UNconverted as they come. I look at him as a great rhetorical practice field. Since I know there is NOTHING that will change his mind about ANYTHING. Tho I suspect we are all like this in some ways. This is where we lefties are supposed to be more honest, more self-critical, more PROGRESSive. But, believe me, I share you frustrations with PPJ as much as you do. And sometimes I feel like smacking him...as much as I'm sure he feels like smacking us. The good fight is the tough fight. Peace, y'all.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Dadler, I respectfully agree and disagree. Is it wrong to sing and dance over the outing of a CIA agent and drape yourself in a flag over Dan Rather? Is it wrong to demand the resignation of Dan Rather and explain why Rove what he did without a demand of a resignation? It goes to values and ethics, and debate if maintaining a semblance of ideological integrity, both wrongs should be handled in a consistent manner. I am all for debate on issues such as the long term effects of Diplomacy vs Military action because it is representative of our belief system in the most effective and pragmatic solution to geopolitical problems. But there is a consistent flow of garbage spewing out of Jim that is inherently inconsistent along party lines. That is not debate, nor is it intellectually stimulating. What it is, is fraudulent partisan politics. It demonstrates a clear lack of morals and ethics. I come to this website to read and participate in debates that will put a dent in my thinking, not to put a dent in others. Pigwiggle, Big Tex and occasionally Sarcastic Unnamed have proposed arguments or sides of a debate that have moved me, perhaps not all the way, but at least shifted my reasoning toward consistency. PB&J has swayed me once. (windmill for energy, he is an expert in EE). Aside from that, he is full of empty rhetoric under the guise of a liberal socialist neo conservative equal opportunity blah blah blah. If I wanted to argue with Rush's points, I would call Rush's show. I really do not need to read them here. There is enough enlightened debate in this blog without the nonsense and double standards of a PB&J phony.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    All relative to Rove, weenie boy. Your posts speak for themselves. You cannot fold, you have been beaten.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#40)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Dadler, Watch out for the hand buzzer. Sometimes I don't know whether I want to kick him in the ass or thank him for the discourse. I'll admit, he does know how to push buttons. We'll need a photo to document.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#41)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    Everyone who is a responsible adult is 'anti-war.' Veterans of wars are the most anti-war.

    Re: Calls for Rove's Resignation (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    Please stay on topic, calls for Rove to resign.

    Calls for Rove's Resignation | 41 comments (41 topical)