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'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport the Parents, Leave the Kids

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Fri Jul 29, 2005 at 09:58:23 PM EST
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Horror story of the day:

About 30 children, some as young as 3 months old, were left without their parents after immigration agents raided a poultry plant and took the parents away to face possible deportation. While some of the arrested workers were able to call and arrange care for their children, others were not and a local church had to help make arrangements.

..."A lot of those families had kids in day care in different places, and they didn't know why Mommy and Daddy didn't come pick them up," Arkadelphia Mayor Charles Hollingshead said

.....Jose Luis Vidal said his sister and brother-in-law left behind children aged 10, 5 and 1 as they were deported to Laredo, Mexico. "The children are very sad, especially the baby. She cries all the time," Vidal said in an interview conducted in Spanish.

Clark County Sheriff Troy Tucker said agents failed to tell his agency about the raid. If they had, deputies would have made sure the immigration officials knew about the children, some of whom had been in the local public schools for years, he said.

"The kids were just left," Tucker said. "They're not doing their job by simply questioning them and asking them whether they have children and not contacting anyone locally."

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    'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport the Parents, Leave the Kids | 21 comments (21 topical)
    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#1)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    TL continues to be baffled by the "illegal" aspect of illegal immigration. Those parents are responsible for this mess. If they hadn't put their children at risk by being here illegally, it wouldn't have been a problem.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    Yo JR...what about the people that hired them?

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#3)
    by Linkmeister on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    And Mr. Robertson makes the blanket assumption that all those parents are illegal aliens. Read the quotation again. It says "possible deportation." For that matter, some of those children may in fact have been born in this country.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#4)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    What about the people who hired them? If they knowingly hired illegals, fine them. Given how easy it is to acquire a drivers license, that may not be the case. Mind you, TL is baffled about drivers licenses and illegals as well.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    Ernesto, good point, and one I make. Why cause this kind of pain to children, as well as their parents?

    As Sheriff Tucker said, why didn't these agents notify his department? This is the ultimate in cruelty, and it could have been handled so much better. Disgusting!

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#6)
    by Mycos on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    We're not baffled about folks like Robertson however. And no longer is the founder of the Minutemen. He just quit, citing rampant, blatant racism in the group. "Parmley said he has become concerned that some of the Minuteman activists in his region have a vendetta against the Goliad County sheriff, who is Hispanic.He asserted they also have made comments about shooting illegal immigrants or letting them die from dehydration.'That's their mind-set, and I don't want my name and my reputation associated with a group of people who are racist like that,' he said. link

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#7)
    by Andreas on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    I do not think that it is necessary to reply to James Robertson in any detail. But I would like to point that he uses a type of argument which is very similar to those who advocate terrorism.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#8)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    "I do not think that it is necessary to reply to James Robertson in any detail. But I would like to point (out) that he uses a type of argument which is very similar to those who advocate terrorism."
    No kidding - Bingo! In fact JR does much trolling and I'm baffled as to why TL allows him here; I'm much less tolerant and patient with truculence. As for an employer's nescience - oh, please. I've seen migrant workers from outside the U.S. since I was a kid - and I'm nowhere near Arkansas. Employers are very aware and lie when necessary.
    "Federal agents arrested 119 people Tuesday in a raid that was triggered after a former worker at Petit Jean Poultry said she supplied others with fake identification cards. Authorities said 115 were from Mexico, two were from Honduras and the others were from El Salvador and Guatemala.
    ID cards, not driver's licenses.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#9)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    What does this have to do with "compassionate conservatism"? llegals have been getting deported as long as there have been countries, and there's never been a good answer for what to do with the kids. Compassionate conservatism never claimed to provide one.
    ...each person arrested was asked whether they had children and they all said they did not.
    Those fighting deportation were released pending hearings...
    First, they decided to raise children while living as fugitives. Then, when caught breaking the law, they lied about whether they had children. Then they accepted immediate deportation, declining the opportunity to stay in-country for a while to make arrangements for the children. The parents screwed their children over. The Feds should probably have coordinated with locals as a way to reduce problems caused by lying parents, by checking in on the kids to make sure they were cared for. But ultimately, it's the parents' fault. More generally, should we let illegal-by-current-standards aliens stay free in the U.S., imprison them rather than deporting them, or force them to take their (likely American citizen) children with them when deported? But apparently it's also wrong to send the children with the parents, even if the parents choose that course (given that the parent is being deported). So apparently TL just wants it to no longer be illegal to enter or stay in the country without permission. Sorry if I'm putting words in our gracious hostess's mouth, but that's how it seems. Which is fine, but our democratically-elected legislature hasn't undone the laws that say borders are borders, and they've had the opportunity for 200 years through coservative- and liberal- and "other"-dominated periods.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#10)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    Clark County Sheriff Troy Tucker said agents failed to tell his agency about the raid.
    Seems like common courtesy. Why aren't there laws allowing migrant workers temporary work visas? Even day visas for those living near the order. Seems a bit more sensible than getting everyone's unmentionables in a twist. Plus, it's the neighborly thing to do. The better off Mexico is, the more immigrants from further south will stay there, and our border would not NEED a lot of protection. As for having no compassion for children of those who break the law, I am assuming no one on this board has EVER jaywalked, gone over the speed limit on a highway or school zone, and we all *always* treat traffic lights in power outages like four way stops. Because, when there is an accident the kids in the vehicle won't deserve compassion.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    ...but our democratically-elected legislature hasn't undone the laws that say borders are borders, and they've had the opportunity for 200 years through coservative- and liberal- and "other"-dominated periods.
    Don't worry Roy...CAFTA is gonna take care of that right quick. Our laws will get trumped by the Divine Right of the Corporate Gods.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    The LAT published an interesting letter: "Meat processing was a well-paid unionized craft until the 1980s, when big corporations were allowed to bust the unions and fill their plants with illegal immigrants... Today, a meatpacker makes roughly $10 an hour, which is the same wage paid in 1980!" So, with their constant opposition to any attempt to enforce our laws, TL and TC end up supporting: - in effect scab labor - corrupt employers - the Bush administration - corrupt local governments ("Boss Hogg factor") - the Mexican government, which is building a consulate in Little Rock and has its eyes on Arkansas I'm sure TL and TC don't mean to do this, but I also wouldn't be surprised to find out that a few of those "liberals" who support illegal immigration are in fact paid to do so. I'd suggest thinking with both sides of your brain, not just the right.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#14)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:45 PM EST
    Johnny,
    I feel for these children, primarily because of people like JR and Roy who have the attitude of "so what? children of criminals, tough sh*te."
    It's not a "tough sh*te" attitude, it's a "it's a real problem, but let's blame the right people" attitude. It's a "that's a cheap, illogical shot at conservatism" attitude. Perhaps instead of putting words in my mouth, you could propose a real solution? Do we loosen immigration / visa law so people can come to the U.S. legally (which might actually work, but goes against protectionist trade policies)? Do we enforce existing law only upon troublemakers? Do we force deported aliens to take their kids with them? "Having compassion" and "feeling for these kids" doesn't do anything. What should the law be?

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:46 PM EST
    I'm a little confused here. Tell me again when it is appropriate for law enforcement officers to abandon babies?

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:46 PM EST
    The parents screwed their children over.
    !! What's wrong with this guy?? Blame the poor! Blame the poor! Get him a brain transplant fast!

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#17)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:46 PM EST
    Tell me again when it is appropriate for law enforcement officers to abandon babies?
    Does "abandon" mean "not know about because the parents lied"?
    Blame the poor! Blame the poor!
    The Feds could have done more by coordinating with local cops, but they at least made a reasonable effort by asking the suspected illegals if they had kids. The parents had the opportunity to get the system involved in taking care of their children, but they chose to lie and say they had no children. The parents had the opportunity to be released (at least temporarily) and make arrangements for their children, but they chose to be immediately deported. Those are not off-the-wall, unreasonable opportunities: they're obvious and easy. So, yes, I blame the parents. Who do you blame, desertswine?

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#18)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:47 PM EST
    Any solution I come up with will be met with derision from the wrong wingers. They are the ones with the beef, you come up with an answer. Like it or not, American business practices are why immigrants come here. Not because some liberal offered them a free dinner. My solution? Force any American company who has hired, knowingly or unkowingly, illegals to cough up 1,000,000 dollars per violation. Token fines do nothing to stem the tide, companies stillg et off cheaper with a combiantion of minimum wage or lower + nominal fines than if they were to pay a living wage to a "legal". Business owners LOVE the cheap labor, let's get after them. While we are at it, lets make it harder for American companies to ship jobs and capital overseas. Also make it illegal for an American company to have financial headquarters in any country other than USA. The taxes that huge corporations avoid payingf dwarf the taxes that are spent taking car eof "illegals". Most companies pay little to nothing, either from loopholes (a nice word for welfare) or outright scoundrelism.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#19)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:47 PM EST


    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:47 PM EST
    Like it or not, American business practices are why immigrants come here. Not because some liberal offered them a free dinner. Think outside your partisan comfort zone for a moment. The problem is both because businesses give jobs to illegals (in some cases recruiting people to come here) and because "liberals" give them free handouts. Examples of the latter: housing subsidies, driver's licenses, accepting Mexico's mickey mouse ID cards, welfare, non-emergency healthcare, discounted college educations, etc. etc. I could provide example after example of "liberals" trying to give handouts to illegal aliens. In some cases that's because those illegal aliens are the same race as the legislators involved. If illegals couldn't get all those freebies, one of two things would happen. 1. If the jobs stayed at $5/hour, many fewer would come because they couldn't get by on that amount if they had to buy their own services. 2. Or, businesses would have to raise the salaries paid to illegals to enable the illegals to pay for their services. In the second case, most businesses would probably decide that hiring Americans was the easier solution, although some would continue to prefer illegals because they sue less and can be abused more. Your proposed fine is, IIRC, just 20 times higher than the current fine. Raising the amount probably isn't going to do much. What's needed is for fines to be imposed in the first place. That's something that Bush generally refuses to do, and "liberals" help. For an example, Nanci Pelosi spoke out about the showcase Wal*Mart raids, calling them "terrorizing raids". She was speaking in Mexico at the time, and accusing our government of terrorizing people. Wal*Mart ended up with a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile, Nanci ended up supporting what appears to be an attempt to do an end around of our wage and labor laws, such as where the janitors were allegedly locked in to the store overnight. And, in the current case one of the workers was 14 years old. I don't know about Nanci, but I'm sure most "liberals" don't intend to support these things, they just end up doing it.

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#21)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:47 PM EST
    Johnny,
    Force any American company who has hired, knowingly or unkowingly, illegals to cough up 1,000,000 dollars per violation.
    Would making a reasonable effort to verify citizenship or visa status be a defense? If not, you'll just make every company afraid (or maybe more afraid) to hire non-whites and anybody with a non-local accent for fear of accidentally hiring an illegal. Meanwhile, they'll still be required to comply with civil rights laws. You'll create a very unjust situation. But, if a reasonable effort is a defense, higher fines sound OK to me. $1M is overkill, but the basic idea sounds legit. Reduce illegals' ability to find work, reduce their available standard of living in the U.S., reduce their desire to come here illegally. Even so, there will still be some illegals who trick companies into hiring them or who just don't work. What do we do about their children? Deport the (possible American citizen) children along with their parents? Allow the parents to stay even though they can't legally work under the current (or your proposed) system? Deport the parents and force them to leave their children behind?

    Re: 'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport (none / 0) (#22)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:48 PM EST
    Roy, what do we do about the millions of Americans on welfare who refuse to work? What do we do about the corporations who receive the bulk of welfare in this country and then ship jobs overseas? What do we do about blah blah blah....? To my way of thinking, if we take away the supply (thousands of business owners willing to become criminals, I would bet a small percentage of illegals do not even need to fake an ID, there are many criminal business owners willing to look the other way to get a roofer for 5/hr)the demand will drop. Realistically? It will never stop. Ever. Our economy relies on low wage laborers, and nothing is going to change that. If they are granted legal status and work for minimum wage, all the wrong-wingers(and a few lefties as well)will still yell about the cost of feeding and clothing and medicating all of these workers. So I say don't do anything at all if you ain't gonna treat the business owners (usually white) the same way you treat immigrants (usually brown).

    'Compassionate Conservativism' At Work: Deport the Parents, Leave the Kids | 21 comments (21 topical)