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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Aug 04, 2005 at 10:55:35 AM EST
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Anyone feel like taking the reins here for the afternoon? I've said all I have to say - it's your turn.

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    Thursday Open Thread | 88 comments (88 topical)
    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:55 PM EST
    Et Al... IMPORTANT PEOPLE IN OUR NATION.. Can this be true? 36 have been accused of spousal abuse 7 have been arrested for fraud 19 have been accused of writing bad checks 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses 3 have done time for assault 71, repeat 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges 8 have been arrested for shoplifting 21 currently are defendants in lawsuits and 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year Can you guess which organization this is? Give up yet? It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line. Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has these statistics? Any comments?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:55 PM EST
    I was going to guess the ACLU... Lighten up people, it was a joke. Funny, if you add me to the list, none of the numbers change...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:55 PM EST
    BB...not surprising to me. In general, good honest people either don't get into politics at all, or don't get far in politics. In that business, the scum rises to the top.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:55 PM EST
    Sounds funny, but this piece has been around for several years. I doubt it is accurate. Who, for example, are the 8 members of Congress that were arrested for shoplifting? Grand theft, OK. Shoplifting -- I doubt it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    BB, et al., one should always check snopes.com before passing on that sort of stuff, because it's usually crap.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    nolo-Why does the left have to always tell the truth. The political strategy of lie, repeat, repeat, repeat, ad. infinitum seems to be very effective. Our leadership is setting a good example why not follow? It seems that the left keeps getting distracted with integrity, truth etc. Maybe it is time to keep our eye on the ball and play dirty...oh and keep it simple.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    1825 KIA and counting. Nice work President monkey boy.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    Che's Lounge

    You posted a comment the other day that I missed because my power went off for nearly a day.

    Was that Noor Khan you were talking about? For a group that seems to think they are fighting a great "war on terror"(it is called that again, right?), they sure sent the Brits into a tailspin over that lame mistake.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    Nice work President monkey boy
    Indeed.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    Bush loves fetuses, except when they get in the way of coal-fired power plants. At that point they become expendable.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    There may be more to the story than we know with Khan. Judy also outed a muslem charity two years ago that Fitz was investigating. Khan may have been involved with Bush Isreali arms deals. Wayne Madsen reports "Israeli nuclear arms smuggler Asher Karni:  His links to Bush administration and Israeli officials may have been the real reason Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings & Associates operations were exposed."

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    We worked hard to narrowly defeat one of those coal-fired power plants in my town last year. Tough fight, but well worth it. Strangely, ever since that measure was voted down, we have had power blackouts, in different parts of town, one after another, often for seemingly no reason. Blackmail?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    I posted a selection from this article below in the Gingrich thread (it should have gone here): "On December 21 [2004], a terrorist blew himself up in the U.S. military mess hall in Mosul, in northern Iraq. Twenty-two people were killed, including U.S. soldiers and contractors...The perpetrator was the oldest son of a diplomat from the kingdom of Saudi Arabia..." ...from the family that produced THREE of the fifteen Saud hijackers on 9i1 (aka, terrorists who Bush likes). Bush's Friends Strike Again Fifteen Saudis, no Iraqis -- an illegal invasion and genocide of a DISARMED country -- it's Bush Oil, looking out for Number One -- and screw the orphans. Now snoozing in the shade of the Traitor Tree, planning the next ripoff.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    BB...your numbers are not surprising. These guys just want to make laws. They dont want to obey them. They dont think they have to because they're "in power". That's what's wrong w/ our systemt these days. The government is too big, too powerful, and has too much say on what goes on in our every day lives. It's not about Democrat vs. Republican or Conservative vs. Liberal. It's about gov't growing ever more powerful and making our decisions for us. They dont have to answer to their own laws because they have enough money and power to keep it quiet and slip right out of touble. But they want our money from court costs and fines. They want to hold the average man down just to show that they have the upper hand. Just the man tryin to keep us down I guess (not to sound too hippyish but...)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    As a followup to the vote-fraud links, here is a handy summary of the major vote-fraud in Ohio last year: Bush Lost Ohio in 2004 Including: "On December 13, 2004, it was reported by Deputy Director of Hocking County Elections Sherole Eaton, that a Triad GSI employee had changed the computer that operated the tabulating machine, and had “advised election officials how to manipulate voting machinery to ensure that [the] preliminary hand recount matched the machine count.”  This same Triad employee said he worked on machines in Lorain, Muskingum, Clark, Harrison, and Guernsey counties." Any such equipment changes or vote-fixing advice are FELONIES under Ohio (and presumably Federal) law. Surprise, the Bush/Gonzales inJustice Dept. refused to investigate, the complicit media refused to report, and the trolls on TL kept up the harassment of searchers into the truth.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    peacerevol: Except that it's grade-a bull-plop, as Homer Simpson would say. The truth is frightening enough. What with Abramoff/DeLay/Ney/Reed/etc., Duke Cunningham, Rove/Libby/Miller/Cooper/Novak/etc., Halliburton, Armstrong, Gannon/Guckert, Gallagher, et. al., there are plenty of real, actual, not made up cash-and-carry scandals that you should be reading about. And these are crimes perpetrated by the very people who though their "Contract with America" and "restoring honor and dignity to the oval office" are supposed to be cleaning up Washington. These are the people who have made an art form out of made-up news. And if anybody finds that 10 year old chain spam believable, then I certainly understand how the Bush propaganda machine might consider its spin factory to be worthwhile.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    Cheetah, That's the case. Kahn had been busted and was setting up AQ via internet communications for the Brits before Rice outed him. Then she was promoted.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    PPJ
    Do you see the connection?
    I know the connection. Do you see the fact that you took the first quote out of context? No? That's because you're a right-wing hack, and all of you do it. Now, why don't you tell the rest of my quote? Here's why.

    You're so used to lying, you don't know how.

    When we defeated the coal burning power plant, the electric company then began having problems keeping out of the dark.

    Here's the connection. You are a liar, and a hack.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:56 PM EST
    Jim, Do you know for a fact the cause of Cheetah's power outage or are you just desperate to snipe unnecessarily? Maybe it wasn't a supply issue. Maybe.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    et al - You can be real proud when people start to investigate the adoption of two children. This is is just sad. And despicable. You should be ashamed.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    cheetah and Che - Nope, I do not know that they were connected, but I used the comments to demonstrate that we have lots and lots of coal, but not enough oil. So, hack I may be, I made the absolute 100% accurate point that to shut down a coal powered plant and then experience a black out is not all that far fetched. How does that go? Having sown the wind, what shall you reap? In this case dark homes and desperate emergency rooms. Believe it boys; the Left's environmental policy has contributed directly to our present problems. Now, let's hear it for sweaters, or wind power, or solar, or some such nonsense. Now, enjoy the fruit of your labors. And tell us how Iraq is all about oil.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    Che's Lounge, thanks. You hit it right on the supply issue. In fact, they tell us there is no supply problem. That's why we think they're messing with us.

    On that Khan case, I was outraged at how little press notice Bushco's Keystone Cops style blunder received. It was a major mistake. I thought the Brits might end up pulling their troops out over it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    Prying into adoption records is "sad and despicable," huh Jim? I wonder why it is you feel that way? Is it because you value the family's, the children's privacy? Sorry, your moral indignation is a joke, as is that of any GOP supporter at this point in the game. See, that valuation of privacy, that alone places you well outside of Roberts's ballpark, as well as virtually every other GOP Judge.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    PPJ, you can burn that mercury laden coal in your neck of the woods. Since you were so concerned about Roberts' children, surely you can understand the parents in my town wanting to protect their own.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    PPJ- Do you ride around in a Hummer, if not you should, i think it would suit you and show support for the goons that have gutted the EPA. Up to $100,00. tax break for SUV's as well. And $80. per barrel, that sounds cheap, as I only need a few drops for my wind sail astro surfboard. Your concern for leftwing 'fibs' sounds sweet, almost endearing. If you are any representation of a wingnut, the dems are in good shape; it's no wonder Hackett could reverse the trend in deep red land. You sound a bit dated.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    glanton - Anything involving children should not be splashed across CNN, or any news media. If you can't understand that, there is no common ground to meet on. You are a disapointment.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    I never said I didn't understand it. I agree with you and made that clear. But I continue to find it odd that you stand up for Roberts' family here in this case, but will not be consistent--that is, you do not condemn what has become routine practice in GOP politics and GOP justice, to obliterate privacy rights. In other words, what Roberts will do in the years to come will make this shameful act of the NYT seem like a piss in a hurricane. To obliterate them, that is, unless you're talking about business records or White House records or records detailing aspects of some GOPer's life. Then privacy is paramount.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    PPJ- you hypocrite. Didn't Roberts splash his children across TV during his Prime Time nomination. He used his innocent children to show that he presumedly stands for family values....Touching....a colorized version of leave it to Beaver. But lets leave the children out of it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    Squeaky--nice. But it all makes sense in this, our post-free nation, our New World Order.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by John Mann on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    ...and under the category of fiddling while Rome burns... This part's especially funny:
    In a scathing attack, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld also criticised those who, he said, were clinging to a discredited theory which viewed the London attacks as retaliation for war in Iraq. He labelled the theory "nonsense".


    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    oy! Really reminds me of Aug 01. It is time to fasten your seat belts. I think its going to be the really big one.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    Jim: - "Bush Lost Ohio ..... gesh, you should patent whatever it is you are taking and sell it in the Viagra aftermarket.. I mean it keeps giving and giving and giving... but it's as phony as a politician’s smile." See, Jim, that's just the kind of EMPTY rhetoric you folk specialize in. I post FACTS (or, at least, legally-significant allegations), and you respond with your best attempt at ad hominem disregard. What about THREE Grand Juries, evidence of FELONIES, $12 million stolen and given to Bush and Schwartzenegger campaigns, obstruction of voters, admitted bribes, and all the rest of the FACTS that are currently being examined by federal and state prosecutors that you think is so silly as to mention Viagra and 'politician's smiles'? It is you who are taking the Viagra and the smiles. You're off-topic, and your antirational ad hominem is just proof that you don't care about the truth. If Bush stole the election, you, as an American, ought to be hoppiing mad. But no -- you're servile. You put party over Constitution. You prefer to mock people calling for their rights, rather than examine the allegations and forge some kind of defense or counter to the obvious implications. And that's why we need courts in this land. Because politicians and their lackeys think they can dance all over the laws, with ruthless impunity, but sometimes the law sticks out like a rusty nail, and the dancing foot comes to a grinding, very painful STOP.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    Good one Paul- Gosh and I just thought he was a bit dim. There done for....as long as we do not have another attack. Bush does not seem to be worried. I guess an attack, as long as it is not at the ranch, can only help him...kinda like 9/11 did. Here is some alarming illumination of the selective war on terror. Frightening! Those assbites.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    PPJ:
    Really. Do you actually believe this crap?
    Here's the EPA's web site on mercury.
    Believe it boys; the Left's environmental policy has contributed directly to our present problems.
    Our present problems include an administration that favors campaign contributors over pregnant women.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    “Didn't Roberts splash his children across TV during his Prime Time nomination. He used his innocent children to show that he presumedly stands for family values....Touching....a colorized version of leave it to Beaver.”
    I don’t have children, but everyone I know who does wouldn’t miss the opportunity to show them off to the country; a national stage for bragging. That’s just how folks are about their kids, at least good parents. Further, most folks want their family with them when they receive honors and awards; certainly a Supreme Court nomination counts. For instance, I’m not the kind to get awards, but my wife is and I have never missed and opportunity to accompany her to the events and applaud as loud as I could. A Supreme Court nominee should be judged on his ability to interpret the constitution in a reasoned manner EVEN IF he tries to make the issue about his kids. The nominee who tries to make the issue his children (and Roberts hasn’t) has something to hide, and the folks who try to make the issue his children have nothing of substance to discuss.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    glanton writes:
    you do not condemn what has become routine practice in GOP politics and GOP justice, to obliterate privacy rights.
    First writing , "privacy rights" is like saying, "I am for good works." It can mean anything at anytime. Do you mean privacy in the bedroom, which I support, or do you mean profiling, which I support. The issue is the word “unreasonable.” One is, the other is not. What is really bothering is your comment:
    “In other words, what Roberts will do in the years to come will make this shameful act of the NYT seem like a piss in a hurricane.”
    That is called “the ends justifying the means.” You might want to check the long list of really bad things that have been done using that philosophy. Squeaky – The man introduced himself and his wife and his children. What in the world is wrong with that? Answer: Nothing to most Americans. But, since you have written that it is okay to condemn children for what the grandparents did, I can understand your belief that it is okay to investigate the children. Et al – You know, I was lukewarm, at best, about Roberts until this action by the NYT. Your support of it is not surprising. Squeaky, cheetah and Ernesto – There is a host of technology devices to clean up the emissions of coal fired plants. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water. The results are $60.00 oil and a very unhealthy dependence on foreign energy sources. Plus, sky high natural gas and electric prices. Old people are dying of heat stroke because they can’t pay the energy bills. In the winter they can’t eat and pay the utility company. I guess we could call them the collateral damage of the Left’s war to establish a pristine environment. PIL writes -
    "...from the family that produced THREE of the fifteen Saud hijackers on 9i1 (aka, terrorists who Bush likes).
    PIL! PIL! Do you realize you are (gasp, gasp!) PROFILING! How can you do this evil thing. I am so, so ashamed for you. ;-)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Two items of interest you won't be seeing here: John Corzine's highly questionable half-a-million dollar "gift" to a former lover who also happens to be president of a union he soon hopes to be sitting across the table from as Governor of NJ, and whose support he is probably counting on in the election. Air America's theft of nearly $800,000 that was earmarked for poor kids. I would think that the latter would warrant mention on a site devoted to liberal coverage of crime, especially when the criminals are liberals and the victims are "the children". I would think the former would warrant mention on a site so deeply involved in politics that every imaginable conflict of interest on a Republican resume is fodder for the masses.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    pigw- i am not sure of your point, but Roberts is not a regular guy. He is a public figure, a bit like showbiz..he gets another level of scrutiny than mere mortals like you me and your wife. These guys, Roberts particularly knows about media and influence. Think of Reagun or Nixon's Famous Checkers speech beforw he went down. A different standard applies...these guys are PUBLIC FIGURES like actors, and he was using his kids here. Every promo move is calculated and scripted with this administration...it is not reality TV..as Rove or Cheney said..'We invent reality ...true POMO they even brag about the power to manipulate.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    JP, So, when do you start your own right wing blog? Or is it easier to just carp about someone elses?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Justpaul.... Great post...I was going to bring those up myself. Of course you realize there are more important things for the left to concern themselves with...like looking into the adoption records of a Supreme Court nominee

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Roger, I'm hardly "right wing". My politics, and interests, cross many boundaries. I just think it's amusing that a site supposedly dedicated to covering issues of crime and injustice ignores nearly every story that involves liberals in anything but shining armor. If it was Trent Lott running for Governor of Mississippi and found to be giving huge financial gifts to the leaders of a union he would be negotiating with if he won, it would be all over this site and the usual suspects would be denouncing him for all they were worth; and I would join them. Why is something like this less news worthy when it involves a Democrat? As for Air America: If what is being reported is true, I am amazed that no one else here has any interest in it. If it were a conservative group and the amount was $800, people would be screaming for blood here. Instead, we get another 100+ comment post on the latest Karl Rove idiocy, whose story should have ended but sadly hasn't. I know Talkleft is a liberal site, and it's one of the reasons I so enjoy it; by reading many sites of varying political views I get a broader picture of what's going on then if I limit myself to just one viewpoint. But Jeralyn opens the door for those of us who support her efforts every once in a while so that we can contribute as well. I'm sorry if my contribution offended your sensibilities.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Jim, Che, Cheetah and Ernesto: Regarding the discussion over energy, our problem is less about oil and more about our policies about efficiency and what we use for power. If the government would stop squandering money in their attempt to run our lives, they could cut a lot of useless government jobs and use that money to help start a plan to shift home energy to solar panels. Secondly, our government's policy has been, since the 1930's, to make illegal the use of hemp for industrial use (or anything else for that matter). But the fact is that hemp has many natural uses, including the oil from it can be used to power a deisel engine. AND it has no THC, so smoking it would be like smoking paper. There is no reason why it's use as an industrial product should be illegal. Just by allowing it to be grown, we would could reduce the amount of oil (and coal) that we use. It's just another great tool that we cant use because our government had to allow DuPont to make their plastics out of their crap back in the 30's and it has not changed since.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    yeah guess bringing in children is only okay if it is an opponent in a primary runup. Hypocrites.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    JP: How about some links? Maybe nobody's talking about it because nobody's heard about it. Why don't you try educating people before you start criticizing them. You, like so many, seem to have been hooked by the idea that arguments should only consist of straw men, red herrings, and ad hominems. Facts be damned!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Michael, I can't help if it you limit yourself to this site only for your information. But, as requested: The New York Sun . CNN . You can also do a Google search on the Air America thing and get lots of hits from all kinds of sources, including Air America, which is naturally trying to play it off as a nonstory because they changed hands. And if providing an item on items that won't be covered here is what you call "criticism", you must feel criticized all the time. Thankfully Jeralyn's skin is a little thicker than that. Enjoy the links.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    I don't believe I ever said or implied that my feelings were hurt because you didn't provide any supporting facts, rather that your argument is not an argument unless it has supporting facts. Thanks for the links. You can keep the two additional ad hominems for yourself.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Here's an interesting link on the Air America thing.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Michael, Your skin really is thin. Even mild tongue-in-cheek comments get through it. Sorry for that. I will refrain in the future from any such silliness. On the other hand, you might want to check out the purpose of the comments here. I don't believe they are for the purpose of argument, although that's how they seem to be used by the majority. Nevertheless, my post wasn't an argument for or against anything, it was a comment on the content and a small addition of such, plain and simple. I apologize if that wasn't clear and will refrain from any further commentatry on that particular point in the hopes that this will not become an argument. And thanks for the link. I would call it highly questionable, rather than interesting, given that the guy couldn't find The New York Sun, which clearly does exist. Maybe his version of Google has too many filters on it. As for mine, a search for "Air America Bronx Youth Clubs" returned "about 131,000" hits in 0.55 seconds. Sadly, most of them are of the "Free Republic" variety, but a bit of careful weeding will easily separate the wheat from the chaff. I don't know whether this story has legs or not, and frankly I hope it doesn't. I would hate to find out that the supposedly good folks at AAR are in fact stealing massive amounts of money from charitable groups. My point was, and is, that if this were a conservative group, the majority of those here would think it was well worth some attention. So far, the only people who seem to think so are you, me, Roger, and BB. Of those, Roger seems to have had a short passing interest in throwing mud back my way, and you are posting defensive material from a guy who can't use Google and who is trying to tie this back to the Whitehouse somehow (which may well boost his credibility on the left, but it doesn't do much for anyone with an open mind). And no one at all seems to think John Corzine's little mess is at all interesting. Just imagine if it were Newt Gingrich.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    "Up to $100,000 tax break for SUV's as well." A common, and yet woefully incorrect, belief. But I'm sure Squeaky, and many others like him, will continue to repeat it without spending the 5 minutes it would take to learn the truth.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "argument" in the context to which I am referring--that is a logical argument. An argument is not a fight. An argument is an "attempt to demonstrate the truth of an assertion called a conclusion, based on the truth of a set of assertions called premises". The reasoning that you present, such as the statement that I am "thin skinned" and that the author of the post that I linked to "can't use Google" and "couldn't find The New York Sun" is specious. I recommend this article for some informed reading.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    A propos, JP, you might notice that the article I linked to was written the day before the Sun article, so there is little surprise to find out that the Sun wasn't quoted.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    jpaul...I read about Corzine in todays paper, he looks cooked. It angers me a lot because I'm a big union supporter, and corruption like this gives ammo to the anti-union crowd. Labor in this country is allready on the ropes, this is all we need. Political cronyism and corruption is certainly bipartisan. Both sides are guilty of overlooking the indescretions of their respective parties. You are absolutly right that no one is served by it. I hate having the fate of the issues important to me resting in the hands of the crooked Dems. It further illustrates the need for some more political parties.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    kdog, Once again I aggree with you. Republicans and Democrats both have their fair shair of crooked leaders. Most politicians are crooked. Perhaps the answer is just to stop having political parties and just let elections, nominations, and appointments be about the issues. A lot of the corruption comes from politicians scratching each others' backs because they're in the same political party. None of them are wrong all of the time, and none are right all of the time, but you can't group everyone into two organizations without dividing the people.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Right on pea...Also, the only people who gain by our current duopoly are the connected. Union leaders gain, union members don't. Church leaders gain, church goers don't, etc.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Jim: "PIL writes - ""...from the family that produced THREE of the fifteen Saud hijackers on 9i1 (aka, terrorists who Bush likes). "PIL! PIL! Do you realize you are (gasp, gasp!) PROFILING!" Actually, Jim, you are an idiot. That's not profiling on any level. That's BLAMING THE PERPETRATORS INSTEAD OF THE INNOCENT. You applaud the Al-Ghamdi family -- that's on you. "I don't really think about bin Laden at all" -- GWB And it shows.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Jimcee, if 'Air America' stole money, I'm sure they will be prosecuted for it. We KNOW that the rightwing stole $12 MILLION in Ohio, in a campaign-fraud slush fund. And they WILL be prosecuted for it, unless the Bush Gang halt the prosecutions of their friends and supporters. Because, screw the law, this is tyranny.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    sarcasm- hey thanks for keeping me in the dark, I guess you are either mean or do not have the goods. My understanding is that as a biz deduction, $100,000. is the limit on SUV deduction. A perk to help the poor auto industry. Less than five minutes to .look it up Woeful, the truth is. Did you forget to deduct your Hummer or did you not earn enough?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Peacrevol, The paper industry is another example of renewable hemp production and use. Also clothing. It's just unnacceptable.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    Produce this stuff Here's a link for those interested in what legal industrial hemp could do for this nation and the politics behind it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    And anybody that thinks hemp is only for hippy potheads or whatever, I think you'll be surprised when you check this out.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Squeaky, "Up to $100,000 tax break for SUV's as well" Most people read this comment and think "That S.O.B. rich dude just knocked $100,000 off his tax bill by buying that big SUV." This is wrong. A) This is an expense, not a tax deduction, for businesses only. It is not now nor never was a tax deduction or a legit expense at the personal tax level. B) The purchase of an SUV for a biz has always been a deductible expense for the biz, that, like every other biz expense, can only be deducted from the biz income, not from the tax bill the biz owes nor directly from anyone's personal taxes. C) Congress reversed itself last fall with passage of the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 and cinched back the "SUV loophole" from $100,000 to $25,000. E) However, today, a biz can deduct from biz income, in the year of purchase, the cost of up to 100k of property purchased for the biz that has a useful life of more than one year. SUV's in excess of 3 tons, purchased by a biz, can be included in that 100k amount. Biz purchases in one year in excess of 100K of biz property with a useful life of more than one year must be deducted (depreciated) from biz income over the course of several years instead of one year. Previously, the cost of such property in excess about 25K had to be deducted from biz income over the course of several years instead of one year. 4) Expenses reduce your biz profits, and therefore also the taxes the biz pays on those profits. If a biz pays 40% taxes on profits, and you reduce biz profits by 100K, you reduce biz taxes by 40k. The benefit to a biz is that it can reduce it's profits and taxes this year instead of having to wait for several years. The benefit to a biz owner is that, hell, any taxes that can be reduced today are infinately better than having the same amount reduced years from today. Squeaky, you are keeping yourself in the dark by repeating stuff you hear or read without checking it out for yourself. I have nothing to do with it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#63)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    "SUV's in excess of 3 tons, purchased by a biz, can be included in that 100k amount." should have read: "Any vehicle, SUV's included, in excess of 3 tons, purchased by a biz, can be included in that 100k amount.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Jim sometimes I think you're intentionally obtuse. "The end justifying the means." Pleeeeze. To do that one would have to be justifying something. If you're looking for somebody who's standing up for the New York Times, I'm the wrong guy. The point is, Roberts is far, far worse, it's like comparing petty theft with grand larceny, assault with murder, etc. Roberts' stated belief (the same as that stated by every significant GOP official, BTW) that the Constitution does not provide for a right to privacy, that view is, well, what you support each time you cast your ballot for these maggots, or pretend outrage at inconsequential issues when real rights are being demolished, and real people are being killed.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    I posted the link about SUV after your snarky remark, about repeating a woefully incorrect belief. Nothing I said was incorrect. Who do you think benefits from this tax loophole. You make it seem so nice, a tax break for necessary things, like a shovel for a gravedigger. Well most of these deductions are for high priced fancy gas guzzlers, not 3 ton pickups for carpenters. The auto industry lobbied for the loophole. And why, if oil is the issue, does the EPA now have no athority to impose mpg standards. Roberts was on the circut court that removed the EPA regulatory power. Conservatives never seem to be interested in conservation; I never quite got that. Neocons do have major investment in oil and military defense, so at least someone is benefiting from the insanity of low mpg SUV and massive tax breaks.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#66)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Squeaky, there is not now, nor ever was, a "$100,000 tax break for SUV's." As your own link explains, if you were to take the time to read and comprehend it. "Well most of these deductions are for high priced fancy gas guzzlers" Another interesting statement, I assume you have some sort of link to actual data to support it?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#67)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Right, but right now their fibs are of smaller concern than the fibs of the Left.
    Uhhh, no. The rw is in power, so when they lie, especially about the reasons for going to war, it is MORE important. BTW, citing drudge is not a creditable source. The 'left' has always been for conserving resources, raising mpg and finding alternative for oil. Don't blame the left cause an oilman is in the WH.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#68)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    August 2001 - 'Bin Laden determined to attack in US' Bush stays on vacation, then reads "My Pet Goat" during attack. August 2005 - "Our message is clear -- what you saw in New York and Washington (in 2001) and what you are seeing in Afghanistan and Iraq, all these are nothing compared to what you will see next." Bush stays on vacation. I wonder what children's storiy he'll read this time?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Sarcastic- Gee wiz I must have of mis read it. Maybe you can translate: "Changes to Section 179 last year, commonly called the SUV Tax Deduction, expanded this popular tax break from $25,000 to $100,000 and lifted depreciation schedules. This combination of factors effectively allows anyone who uses a vehicle in their business at least 50% of the time to buy the biggest and most expensive SUV and write it off in one year. Here is the SUV Tax Deduction - Vehicle List. This created a huge incentive for anyone running their own business to purchase that luxury Escalade or BMW X5 and enjoy a hefty tax advantage for 2004."

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#70)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Paul in LA, You're absolutely right about Ohio. I don't know if you've already discussed the studies done suggesting that fraud is the only plausible explanation for the discrepancy between exit poll data and election results occurring almost exclusively in swing states, but here's one study: http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit_Polls_2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf One of my favorite parts is the determination that the likelihood of these discrepancies occurring in only the swing states, as opposed to any other selected set of states, is...wait for it...1 in 330,000. Also, the chances of the exit polls being so wrong nationally, by chance, range from 1 in 16.5 MILLION to 1 in 1,240. The 16.5 mil number was actually arrived at by a group trying to prove that election fraud had not taken place. They instead advanced the theory of the chatty Kerry voter, which is pretty well done away with by the above and other studies. Also, it’s important to realize this isn’t a left-wingnut conspiracy theory. There are 9 PhDs and a JD listed at the top of the study. They’re the authors and endorsers, and they include profs from Notre Dame to Cornell to SMU. 2 of those 3 schools ain’t exactly bastions of liberal thought.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Exactly. Sect 179 applies to any and all biz property purchased with a useful life of over one year - including vehicles of over 3 tons - totalling, up to a maximum, of $100k. Sect. 179 says, for example, that a $40K over 3 ton SUV purchased by a biz, plus up to $60k of other property purchased by that biz that also have a useful life of over one year, are deductable as expenses from the biz's income in one year instead of being spread out over several years. At its absolute maximum, assuming 40% biz taxes, the $100k 179 expense can only reduce the biz's taxes by $100k x 40% = $40k - not $100k. It isn't and wasn't a $100k tax break, and it isn't and wasn't explicitly "for" SUV's. It is not now, nor ever was, a "$100,000 tax break for SUV's." And, mainly, all it does is allow a biz to save that $40k in taxes today instead of years from today. How're you doing on the "Well most of these deductions are for high priced fancy gas guzzlers" link?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#72)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    In fact, at a 40% biz tax rate, for a biz to realize the maximum tax benefit of $40k solely from an SUV purchase, the SUV would have to cost $40k/.40 = $100,000. That's some SUV!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Sarc- It does not have to be just one SUV.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Paul- This August, Sunday in fact, is the 60th Anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima. I am nervous with all that is going on in the world. Still not over 9/11 I guess.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#76)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Oh for God's sake, now you're being ridiculous. It isn't and wasn't a "$100,000 tax break" nor "for SUV's" nor a "$100,000 tax break for SUV's." Period. I'll check in tomorrow to see your data link to support "Well most of these deductions are for high priced fancy gas guzzlers."

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#77)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Think one word "Jihad" Bush likes that word and business like that ideals...so why not just say yes to jihad, we can all join in the fight against each other and cut each other's head off for god. or go to washington with bad ideals in our heads, think bush on a tree of love.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#78)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Squeaky, if it makes you feel any better, I think all the terrorist attaks so far have happened on an odd-numbered date of an odd-numbered month of an odd-numbered year (all the flights on 9/11 were odd numbered also). August is an even-numbered month. Someone has told me that this is due to an Islamic belief that odd numbers are fortuitous. If that is so, you should be fine for this month and all of next year. Next month, on the other hand....

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#79)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    PIL - Here is a link to the Air America story Link It is 8 days old and it is now clear that Air America took a loan, and never repaid it. It appears that they intended to not repay it because the agency was out of business, mostly because they ran out money.... which of course they had loaned Air America. How a not for profit organization can legally loan government funds and tax deductible funds to a private radio program is, apparently, unknown. I am sure you would be frothing, even more than usual, if the same amount was given to Limbaugh or Hannity..., or to a right wing show that was struggling. If the NYT has covered this scandal it is not known to me. They do, however, have time to investigate the adoption records of a 4 and a 5 year old child. Whoever said priorities aren’t important? Squeaky writes:
    Who do you think benefits from this tax loophole. You make it seem so nice, a tax break for necessary things, like a shovel for a gravedigger.
    Read SU’s comment. First, you must have a business. Not a hobby. Secondly the vehicle deduction is limited to $25K of a possible $100K of business expenses that would normally be deprecated instead of expensed. Thirdly, the amount we are talking about can’t be used later, so it really is just a move forward of what would be deductible later. The amount, $100K is peanuts to large firms. But to small firms it was a huge help, and probably allowed many of them to survive, or even hire people and expand. And that’s important in the real world. Glanton – What you are speaking of is doing what ever is necessary to defeat Roberts, because he will be evil later on. That is the end justifying the means anyway you look at it. A cop could use it to shoot a small time crook. After all, he knows that the crook will eventually kill someone during a bank robbery. c-law – Much was made of studies made in the panhandle of FL. There is a very easy and logical explanation. In the panhandle, and in many southern states and some western states, the local politics is almost exclusively Democratic. The national politics is Republican. It has been that way for years in many states. In my youth the local elections were considered over after the Demo primaries in August. But I know a simple easy to understand explanation won’t satisfy Paul. It doesn’t feed the paranoia.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#80)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Sarc- Yes a $100,000. tax break or deduction on $200,000. taxes owed does not mean that you only owe $100,000. I believe it is still called a $100,000. tax break or deduction. Here is what you asked for: SUV SALES were up 51% because of this loophole. "A tax loophole big enough to drive a $90,000 sport-utility vehicle through is working magic on SUV sales. Small-business owners are swamping dealers with orders for Porsche Cayennes, Cadillac Escalades and other pricey SUVs as Congress tries to close the loophole driving such sales."

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#81)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Thanks Grad stud. I am 10% less worried. Must be residue from the last one.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#82)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Quoting the washingtontimes, the paper owned by a by "the Rev. Sun Myung Moon in which Moon declared himself the Messiah and said his teachings have helped Hitler and Stalin be "reborn as new persons."" Doesn't really help your case. BTW, how's that tinfoil hat fit?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#83)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Jim, stop putting intentions into my posts that aren't there. As I said on another thread, I see the NYT as doing this for the same reasons it and every other mega corporate media outlet does everything else--profit motive. I offer no defense for its prying into adoption records. I do note that your pretense of outrage over the invasiveness is highly ironic, given the target and especiallygiven your closed-mouthedness over the dangers this Republican party poses to our liberties. You ignore the tramplings on privacy again and again that go on routinely all across the country; on this very blog, you have made a habit out of forging apologies, excuses, jokes or whatever it takes. So spare us the "concern" over Roberts' privacy, or that of his children, okay? Because if you really cared about such things you wouldn't so regularly parrot GOP arguments.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#84)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    sailor - My trusty ball cap and aviator sun glassess are doing great, thank you. BTW - You can shoot the messenger until your weapon is white hot, but the facts can't be denied. Air America appears to have the same problem, operating at the edge, or outside, the law that its name sake had. Someone should be headed to jail over this. In the meantime, I wish I could get a loan like this:
    The New York Sun's David Lombino follows up today on the Air America scandal with news that the loan payback from Piquant Media has lost something in the translation -- namely, the interest owed on it. Piquant Media finally agreed to pay back the $875,000 Evan Cohen misappropriated from Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Clubs for his own personal use and to fund Air America when the netlet seemed ready to collapse. They want to extend payments over two years, but Lombino reports that Piquant will not pay interest on what documents show was supposed to be a loan from Gloria Wise (emphasis mine): An employee of Air America, who requested anonymity, said yesterday that it received a letter from the city Department of Investigation recommending that the network set up an attorney-managed escrow account for the payments, rather than pay Gloria Wise directly or wait until the department's investigation concludes. The employee said the network made its first payment, of an unknown amount, yesterday. An official of the city agency, who asked not to be named, said later that the letter asked that the radio network put the entire $875,000 in an escrow account. ... Piquant LLC, which acquired Air America from Mr. Cohen's Progress Media in May 2004, has agreed to pay $875,000 to Gloria Wise, without interest, in installments over the next two years.
    glanton - Saying it aint so won't make it not so.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#86)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    DA: That's just beautiful. I commend you.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#87)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Posted by Jim: "PIL - Here is a link to the Air America" Who cares? If their company committed a crime, the courts are still in session. Stolen elections and warcrimes are a bit more pressing for my attention. You're some kind of moral derelict worrying about a piece of red meat about a radio organization you hate, while the rest of us are FREAKED about 130,000 people killed by our troops, who have apparently been encouraged to behave like animals instead of professional soldiers. It's long past time to impeach their command.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#88)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Air America, with ten listeners Vs. Supreme Court Justice who rules over all of our lives. Glad to see that you've got your priorities straight Jim!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#89)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    DA writes:
    I'm sure PPJ had the same problems when Rush Limbaugh said that Chelsea Clinton was ugly,
    Yes. And thanks for asking. I repeat. It is despicable for people to bring children into these things. And now you may explain what:
    Never mind that Smith had been molested as a young girl by her stepfather, a South Carolina Republican Party activist with close ties to Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition
    …has to do with the article in question. Are you saying that all Repub Part activist are molesters, or must they also have ties to Robertson? As for Newt, he was wrong to have said that. But, considering the source of the quote, I'd like a little more proof. But, if he did, shame on him. BTW - In another thread Squeaky laid an attack on Rove because, according to Squeaky, Rove's father worked on Nazi death camps. When I asked him what that had to do with Rove, and chided him for saying the children are responsible for the sins of the grandparents, he defended his comments. DA, how do you feel about that? Glanton? If Hitler had children, would you condemn the grand children? As for Air America, how can you not report it without giving the background of when/how it was founded, and its stated goals. Part of the story is that they couldn’t raise money because of what they claimed they wanted to be. On the other hand, you could report about Smith being molested without identifying the political or religious affiliation of her molester. BTW - This is a common meme in journalism, and is the easiest way to identify the political leaning of the reporter. A good editor is supposed to edit such things out, but when they both are of the same beliefs, they both suffer a common blindness. PIL – I shall dub thee, “The artful dodger.” No, strike “artful.” Roger – Unlike a busy attorney I have time in my life to worry over both. If you like, I will assume your portion of the “worry over” in the Air America scandal. I mean, what are friends for? ;-)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#91)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:00 PM EST
    Squeaky, Sigh. Your link, to an obsolete article from Feb, 2004, not only doesn't even begin to answer my question but also describes exactly what I wrote above: "C) Congress reversed itself last fall with passage of the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 and cinched back the "SUV loophole" from $100,000 to $25,000." Regardless, what I actually asked you for was a link to actual data that would support your contention that: "Well most of these deductions are for high priced fancy gas guzzlers." Your link doesn't even begin to systematically evaluate deductions from actual biz tax returns, nor what they are composed of. And you won't find such a data link that supports your contention because the contention is untrue. Stop drinking the koolaide, man, just because it supports your agenda. "Yes a $100,000. tax break or deduction on $200,000. taxes owed does not mean that you only owe $100,000." Um, that's exactly what it means. Think about it. And while you're thinking, try to wrap your head around this one as well: Sect. 179 does not offer a biz any bigger tax benefit than that which existed before - it merely allows a biz to take that tax benefit in one year instead of spreading it out over several years. A biz that buys a vehicle, any vehicle, or any other property with a useful life of over one year, has always had the legitimate right to deduct its cost as an expense, however, now, instead of just $25,000, a biz can deduct up to $100,000 of these purchases, including vehicles in excess of 3 tons, today, instead of years from today. Don't just read the easy headlines, Squeaky, understand the issues.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#92)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:00 PM EST
    DA writes:
    Oh, if you're skeptical about any quotes that people cite here, the best thing to do is Google them, then you can determine if they're real or not.
    For some reason you believe that it is up to me to prove you right. Wrong.
    The piece I quoted from was an opinion piece, not news reporting,
    Indeed it was. Which, if you use that basis, probably 90% of what you see on TV and the newspapers are opinion pieces. Most of them disguised as reporting. Which was my point. And that is a rather standard excuse of making the person's affiliation’s the story. Donaldson's example is not the same. I would expect a better straw horse. And no, investigating children in an attempt to get at the person is, was, and will be, most damnable. But it is apparently acceptable to some on the Left, because it will help them retain or regain power. Pretty well tells us all we need to know. As for Squeaky’s comment,it has a huge gap in moral content. As for any outrage, moral or otherwise I may suffer because of what I read written by Squeaky, or yourself, it is on the same level as who the Dallas Mavericks will pick in next year’s draft. I used it to allow you to identify yourself. You did. You will get future opportunites.

    Thursday Open Thread | 88 comments (88 topical)