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Katrina: What Went Wrong

By Jeralyn, Section Huricanes Katrina and Rita
Posted on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 06:46:00 PM EST
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The New York Times has an exhaustive article on Government foul-ups in the Katrina castastrophe. The lead-in:

An initial examination of Katrina's aftermath demonstrates the extent to which the federal government failed to face domestic threats as a unified, seamless force.

Left Coaster sums up the article and notes::

Bush told the Governor on Friday, four days after the crisis began, that he would send in more National Guard forces, but only if Governor Blanco transferred control to him. After seeing the Feds botch their job the entire week, Blanco would be justified in being hesitant to hand Bush the keys to her car, let alone handing him control over her state’s affected areas, at a time when the Feds couldn’t even deliver upon their basic responsibilities.

The Times also has new article on how Mike Brown came to be relieved of Katrina duties.

< White House Doles Out Katrina Contracts to Cronies | New Orleans Gun Confiscation: Illegal and Foolish >

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    Katrina: What Went Wrong | 20 comments (20 topical)
    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#1)
    by wishful on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:38 PM EST
    It is my understanding that FEMA already had control of the emergency situation, due to the state and federal "state of emergency" declarations. What more control did Bush want? I think it was police control (to be delegated to the military instead of the Nat'l Guard). That would require Blanco to allow Bush to declare a domestic insurgency in LA. If true, Blanco was more than correct to rebuff this "offer" that Bush thought she couldn't refuse. If she did accept, then Posse Comitatus would need to be suspended--not generally a good thing. Also it was not needed in NOLA unless Bushco withheld FEMA help long enough that people were fighting for their very existence, leading to what could be easily mischaracterized as a real domestic insurrection, to get the American people to support this takeover. None of that happened under the law, but it does seem that in practice, Bushco is getting terribly close, if not already illegally to a police state in NOLA. Why? I'm not sure, but Bushco doesn't seem to like democracy, and this would surely eliminate it in the U.S. Any lawyers want to tell me where I'm not getting it?

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:38 PM EST
    Straight from the NYT article:
    Richard A. Falkenrath, a former homeland security adviser in the Bush White House, said the chief federal failure was not anticipating that the city and state would be so compromised. He said the response exposed "false advertising" about how the government has been transformed four years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. "Frankly, I wasn't surprised that it went the way it did," Mr. Falkenrath said. [...] An irony of the much-criticized federal hurricane response is that it is being overseen by a new cabinet department created because of perceived shortcomings in the response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. And it is governed by a new plan the Department of Homeland Security unveiled in January with considerable fanfare. The National Response Plan set out a lofty goal in its preface: "The end result is vastly improved coordination among federal, state, local and tribal organizations to help save lives and protect America's communities by increasing the speed, effectiveness and efficiency of incident management."


    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:38 PM EST
    The NY Times article didn't mention that FEMA communications were being monitored by radio enthusiasts, one of whom wrote the following:
    [FEMA ... wasn't] smart enough to use the rotating freq radios and scrambling equipment for all of their operations. We heard quite a bit of their operations on the scanner. They used the term "Cockroaches" for the locals, and we heard them call in "Can we let this water in?" and the reply would be "NO, send it to the facility over there" 70 miles away.
    Although the article gave an overview of FEMA's bureaucratic, Politboro-like obstruction of emergency operations, they imposed many arbitrary impediments, such as the following, from an account given by the radio enthusiast who was scanning FEMA frequencies in the area (much of this is available elsewhere); he was particularly outraged by the confiscation of guns, and by the policy that anyone caught leaving the city with their guns would be "shot on sight."
    ... Setting up road blocks and check points so they can keep aid from coming in, and keep people from getting out. ... Turning away 400 medical personnel, water, food, medical supplies. (Note, there are not the 1600 or whatever that Cuba offered. These were American doctors and nurses well schooled in triage.) ... Turning away 500 boats after the parish heads had put out a call on the one remaining radio and TV station for people with flat bottom boats to assist in the rescue effort. ... Turning down France's offer to have water purification units, the fuel for them, and the crews to operate them - which France said they could have in place and operational within 27 hours.(Early into it, day 2) ... Refusing to allow civilians in to rescue and aid. ... After finally allowing some busses in, they turned them back and send them BACK to the dome. They started doing this with some private vehicles as well. ... Not distributing clothing, food, and other aid that was brought in by the truckload and is clogging up entire warehouses ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. ... Not allowing the Red Cross ...or anyone else... into any areas with hot food trucks and water. Including much of areas far north of New Orleans. Relented partially, they are in Mississippi. ... Stealing the fuel the New Orleans police were using to operate so that they had to cease operations for a couple hours, and this let looting in some areas get out of control.


    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:38 PM EST
    If in fact folding FEMA into the Department of Homeland Security was to account for the failure to deliver needed resources, why is it that this failure didn't happen in other places nor was it an issue with previous hurricanes? What was unique about New Orleans?

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#5)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:39 PM EST
    People in Mississippi were left twisting in the wind as well, according to all press accounts. We're just not hearing about it from the state because Haley Barbour is willing to toe the party line. The whole "blame the locals" argument just doesn't fly unless you're also willing to blame Haley Barbour and the cities of Biloxi, Gulfport, and Waveland--which the White House is not going to do, since Haley has an (R) after his name.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:39 PM EST
    Michael D - Come on Mike. MS has Demos and if they had a beef it would be given to the press. To think otherwise conjures up a conspiracy so huge it blackens the sun. MS has escaped because NO was a larger problem and a larger story. Plus, it does appear that MS did a better job, probably because of no city flood to contend with. MacLane - The problem is we have no idea of the timeline, and what else was happening at the same time. You can very easily take battlefield communications and prove that this, or that move, fire direction, etc., was wrong. As to the "coackroaches" comment, what was the context? Were looters being described? If so, not professional, but understandable. If in general, someone needs to be fired. Somehow I believe the former. I also note that the list does not mention the mobile hospitals from NC that were stopped at the LA border because of a dispute over what LA would let them do. MS gratefully took them. And then I see no mention of the Red Cross being prevented from going in to NO immediately after the hurricane by the LA Homeland Security Dept. I see no mention of the Mayor failing to use the 600 busses to evacuate people before the hurricane, and then (ready for some grins?) demanding busses after the hurricane. He had’em at his disposal. All 600…..underwater. And I'm not providing any particular excuse, just noting some facts that a reasonable person should consider when reading your comments. Said comments appear to be an attempt to convince us that it was all the Feds fault. edger quotes:
    Richard A. Falkenrath, a former homeland security adviser in the Bush White House, said the chief federal failure was not anticipating that the city and state would be so compromised….
    Thanks for quoting this. That’s a nice way of saying the city and state was screwed up, particularly after the hurricane, and especially with the flood. Since he is a former employee, I would surmise that he believes that if they had kept him around he would have prevented this. And I largely agree that this was a problem But where is it written that the city and states aren’t supposed to speculate and plan for what will happen if the problem is so large they are “compromised?” Blanco wouldn’t even turn it over to the Feds when it was obvious the two command chains were having problems. Instead she was concerned over “blame.” That’s a politician talking, eh?

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:39 PM EST
    Jim: You need new glasses, man... Maybe some professional help too. I hear they have some new treatments now... ;-) Richard A. Falkenrath, a former homeland security adviser in the Bush White House, said the chief federal failure was not anticipating that the city and state would be so compromised. He said the response exposed "false advertising" about how the government has been transformed four years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:39 PM EST
    I think there is enough factual information emerging now to begin disputing the purported negligence of local authorities to utilize the busses prior to them being swamped. HERE is perhaps a link, but I know I've seen others (that I can't locate) to suggest that local authorities had to suspend bussing operations as the storm approached so that busses, which are prone to rollover in high winds, were not stranded out in evac traffic and vulnerable when the hurricane hit. After landfall and after the levees breached, yeah, they were underwater. But the plan had been for FEMA to evac the temporary shelters. The shelters (Superdome, Convention Center, et al.) were not intended as refugee centers under the plan, but rather as a staging area to transfer to larger busses. Meanwhile, Gov. Blanco issued an executive order (PDF) September 2nd, superceding a previously issued EO issued August 31, commandeering busses. This was done after busses, which were apparently promised by FEMA, had failed to materialize. Almost immediately following the hurricane, I couldn't help but notice that the shots of the Hyatt with its windows blown out, showed City Hall in the foreground in the same shape. So, the logical headquaters for local operations is in shambles, State response was hampered by a loss of communications. Federal response was necessary in the early hours. FEMA is largely a check writing operation. DHS is supposedly an organization that should have demonstrated readiness for this disaster as well as, one assumes, a nuclear strike. I wouldn't put DHS in charge of filling a kiddie pool with water at this point. The loss of New Orleans evidences a national defense gap. After four years, we now know if there was an attack, the crucial early hours would be taken up by first responders and Federal officials bumping into each other and tripping over each other in a laughless tragic-comedy.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:39 PM EST
    You can very easily take battlefield communications and prove that this, or that move, fire direction, etc., was wrong.
    Note, ladies and gentleman, the phrase battlefield communications, which I have emphasized because we are discussing communications for emergency operations, not communications during battle. So, I find it not a little ironic that PPJ, in a characteristically disengenuous move, attempts to undermine reasonable interpretations of the FEMA communications by asserting that the context and timeline isn't known, and then surreptitiously inserts his own context by referring to communications during emergency rescue operations as battlefield communications. The phrase is inadvertently telling. FEMA was unprofessionally and routinely referring, in radio communications, to the residents it was supposed to be helping as "cockroaches" (not during looting--please desist from this bizarre attempt to excuse the inexcusable). The phrase "cockroach" suggests they thought of themselves as exterminators.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:40 PM EST
    Mac Lane - Don't distort. My comment was to note that when you have a lot of stuff going on, then it is extremely difficult to say what was, and what should. And yes, this was very much like a battlefield in which you have people scattered all over the place, and the army is yelling about airforce... nothing new in that. I note that you provide no links, no time line and nothing but information that attempts to show the Feds, and in turn Bush, in a bad light. Your actions define you. obelus - Given that the busses would have been used before the high winds arrived, this excuse also ranks with "The dog ate my homework." It also ranks with Jesse Jackson's. "Where could they have been taken." BTW - A few days ago, I think it was Ernesto, as part of his defense of the local officals, provided a link to a picture of a gulf coast city, I think it was Biloxi, showing a bunch of school busses...high and dry... all standing on four wheels... after the hurricane had came through with devasting high winds. Get another strawman. ............and the Governor yeling for busses... that is funny. I wonder who got the job of telling her that around 600 were under water... Oh well, stupid is as stupid does. I would agree that this shows that the plans by the city, the state and the Feds did not assume that the city would be lost to floods and to criminal looters, or that one third of the police would leave, or that the local/state people would delay and delay because they were worried about the cost of lost business if the hurricane turned away. This leads to a simple solution. We'll turn it over to the Feds. That'll focus the response and provide a clear comand and control chain. Until then, continie to expect more of the same.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:40 PM EST
    to show the Feds, and in turn Bush, in a bad light.
    I said nothing about Bush. So cool your jets.
    Your actions define you.
    Platitudinous.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:40 PM EST
    My comment was to note that when you have a lot of stuff going on, then it is extremely difficult to say what was, and what should.
    This is a vague generality, whose intention is to attemp, in a most obvious, drivelling manner, to undermine the specific things that were overheard by radio amateurs and radio enthisiasts at the time--communications which corroborated the accounts that persons without radio equipment were observing, But, I understand it's extremely difficult for you to sythensize what you see and hear. Don't assume that because you find it extremely difficult to make sense of what's going on around you, that others are equally impaired.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:41 PM EST
    Mac Lane - Don't distort what I said. My point was that you have to go to combat communications to find a similar situation. Again. You ignore all problems except those alleged to be FEMA's. You provide no links. You provide no time line. Frankly, a resonable person won't take you seriously.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:41 PM EST
    PPJ-Frankly, a resonable person won't take you seriously. Since you do seem to take ML's comment seriously, enough to engage with him, you are not reasonable. A good start to admit your flaws, it has been clear to most here for awhile.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:41 PM EST
    My point was that you have to go to combat communications to find a similar situation.
    If you want to change the subject from the specific things that were overheard by radio enthusiasts to what you consider to be similar situations, then I'd get the impression you don't have much experience monitoring and partipating in such communications. People who are experienced at this would find police communications more like it. Example: during Bush's visit to the RNC in New York City, the police ordered two "full pedestrian freezes" over the radio. This is a standard procedure: the police order all pedestrians to stop wherever they are; the police are ordered to look toward the crowd, and away from the President's motorcade. This is done for two reasons: to monitor the crowd, and to enable the motorcade to identify potentially suspicious cops or persons who impersonate cops. During Bush's departure, there were several disgruntled cops on the radio. They were working 12 hour shifts, and some of them have had to sue the city to get their overtime (I have cops in my family). On the radio, one of them called out, "the eagle has flown, caw! caw!" The dispatcher warned about unauthorized communications. A second officer said, "Four more years!" A third chimed in, "Four more years without a contract." Prior to that, the police were discussing moving busses for detaining protestors. That's almost like the kind of communications that were going on. Now, the reason I'm not giving an all encompassing statement about all other agencies involved is because my discussions with other radio enthusiasts and hams concern what they heard. This concerns what they were willing to tell me. It comports with what others were reporting on the ground. There's no point in attempting to obfuscate by pretending that the situation on the ground was everywhere utterly mysterious, chaotic and inscrutable. It's all to easy to raise the question, "in whose interest is it to maintain that the situation on the ground was mysterious, chaotic and inscrutable?" And each agency and situation has to be considered on a case by case basis. It does no good to make a blanket statement about every federal, state and local agency involved; its just as meaningless to make the statement that the situation was utter chaos, and then pretend that to assert otherwise is a veiled criticism of Bush. Here is a criticism of Bush: many of us thought that it's a sign of a good administrator that he or she has competent people working for him. But we've seen a repeated pattern of hiring people with no operational experience, with deadly consequences. So that's a sign of a pretty weak administrator. At various FEMA checkpoints, it was a pretty routine, bumbling bureaucracy. They were turning back supplies. It's pointless to pretend that this was a battleground situation that can't be understood unless you were there.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:41 PM EST
    ML, PPJ is doing one of his stretching routines, thanks for taking the time to put it to naught, since that's an old line of his: "I don't know what happened there, do you? No? Then how dare you criticize.......etc." routine. This is of course a paraphrase, but you can see the truth or falsity of my claim by looking in the archives. SSDD for PPJ, I fear........

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:42 PM EST
    Squeaky - Your yada-yada play on words aside, someone has to tell you guys when your full of it. Mac Lane writes:
    If you want to change the subject from the specific things that were overheard by radio enthusiasts
    No, I just suggest that they may not be true. One more time. No timeline, no links, nothing but stories about how bad the Feds are. DA - The fact is, you don't know what went on there, and neither do I, nor Mac Lane. I tried to be gracious to both sides and point out that in the smoke and fog of battle/emergancy situations, it is difficult to know who knew what when. Or did you take up channeling?

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:42 PM EST
    PPJ-no wordplay above, just pointing out your usual puffed up and meaningless rhetoric.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:44 PM EST
    The fact is, you don't know what went on there, and neither do I, nor Mac Lane. I tried to be gracious to both sides and point out that in the smoke and fog of battle/emergancy situations, it is difficult to know who knew what when.
    Aside from being an arbiter of thought, since you don't know what went on there, how do you know anything about the "smoke and fog of battle/emergancy situations"? I agree that you don't know what went on there. Not knowing anything about what went on there, how can you be so sure it was a "battle/emergency" situation? You can't, having admitted total ignorance, and "extreme difficulty" in finding out what happened. So all you can say is that the scene is an utter mystery to you; you can't go as far as to say that it was a "battle/emergency" situation, or you'd be contradicting your assertion that it was essentially unknowable.

    Re: Katrina: What Went Wrong (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:44 PM EST
    "Accurate early reports of levee-breaks just didn't propagate ) Compare the billions spent minutely protecting Shuttle astronauts robotwisdom WSJ-longish but free

    Katrina: What Went Wrong | 20 comments (20 topical)