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Open Thread Friday

"It's a death trap, it's a suicide rap. We gotta get out while we can...."[Bruce Springsteen, Born to Run]

The New York Times:

.... as many as 2.5 million people jammed evacuation routes on Thursday, creating colossal 100-mile-long traffic jams that left many people stranded and out of gas as the huge storm bore down on the Texas coast.

Acknowledging that "being on the highway is a deathtrap," Mayor Bill White asked for military help in rushing scarce fuel to stranded drivers.

A bus carrying nursing home evacuees caught fire, killing 20.

Politics, hurricanes, crime, whatever's on your mind, here's a place to inform and vent.

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  • Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    This is a big story in my area. Could big bucks developers be working in cahoots with town officials to evict working class people under dubious circumstances from an apt. complex to make way for luxury condos? Smells fishy to me, nobody in local govt. has a straight answer. Check it out

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    We can talk about anything? I am not really a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, but I have noted that noted Professor of CS and Biology and Scientific American Computer Recreati0on Editor AK Dewdney has demonstrated how hard it is for cellphones to work in airplanes, contrary to what evidently worked easily on 9/11. Reports two days ago from Los Angeles were also that cellphone calls from the JetBlue airplane did not go through.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Anyone have more information on this? FEMA, DHS looked at different weather forecasts?

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    One of the side effects of revolving, major disasters like Katrina, FEMA and now Rita is that it creates a sort of myopic, tunnel-visioned perspective focused almost exclusively on the here and now. However, being prepared for a disaster also means taking a look at what other monster is already on a collision course with the constituents of our federal leadership. A monster that is exclusively the purview of Congress, and a certain, knowable event. The name of that monster is WINTER, particularly in states where it gets cold enough to require some form of energy to create enough warmth to stave off death by freezing. I'm not exaggerating or attempting to be overly alarmist. The fact is I just found out this very morning that, for today ONLY, the price of my propane - the only available source of heat energy in this and a majority of rural areas - is $1.90 a gallon, with a 50 gallon minimum for them to even bring it out! And it will be increasing without any forseeable cap by next week. Energy assistance programs are funded by federal dollars for the states. LEAP is that program but it is governed by how much you paid LAST year for fuel. In doing some research for my state I have discovered that all the different sources of fuel, including wood, are already equal to and moving higher than propane. The claim is, of course, the disasters of the Gulf Coast are the cause. Fine. But isn't that a little myopic? I mean, shouldn't our legislators, regardless of Party affiliation, be turning their gaze to another immutable fact of Nature, winter, heading for their home states like a freight train on a mission? This a disaster that will likely kill thousands of poor, elderly, ill, and disabled people across the country that can be seen now; two months before it really strikes. This is an energy crisis that makes limitations on gasoline purchases irrelevant. Has Congress bothered to look this far into the future? According to my own representatives' offices (Colorado: Allard and the two Salazar brothers) they have not given it any thought at all. I live on a fixed income and alone, disabled by Multiple Sclerosis after working for more than 23 years. Social Security, already being eyed for the axe to pay for the hurricanes, is all there is for me and many, many others in this country. We can't increase it ourselves and we can't get work. So, today when I have to pay $95 for 50 gallons of propane, knowing that within the next week the price will be increased by a dollar a gallon, how can I plan to survive winter? Perhaps I will have to cannibalize my own house, making a camp fire from pieces of the roof and floor. There are solutions right now. Get out of the Middle East altogether, saving $30 million a month. Enforce the old Windfall Profits Act for the refineries, producers and profiteers. We all know that this fuel shortage is primarily a scam. Prosecute and fine every government contractor who has padded the bills and revoke all no-bid contracts. Set a flat income tax and stop cutting wages for the workers of disaster areas. Force price control on all energy producers, no exceptions. In short, cut the pork. I have to wonder if our Congrssional leadership will think to send the National Guard out across the states next Spring, to knock on doors and see who survived winter and who froze to death. I have to wonder if we will be chalked up as just so many "oops" disaster victims, dead or homeless because once again the United States was unprepared. I have to wonder if we will become another photo-op for Presidents and politicians who can only spout platitudes and shrug at their responsibilities. I have to wonder if I will be around by next Spring or just another casualty of political myopathy. ds

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Rove, good as he is as propaganda minister, can not hold a candle to the Vatican. The news is not pedophilia priests anymore, it is gays in the church. As the church was able to cover up priestly pedophilia for a few hundred years, the latest round of publicity exposing the preying priests, and the ensuing legal action threatening to drain their tax free coffers, has caused the squirming church has come up with new spin guaranteed to deflect the issue made specially for America: Gays are now the problem, the subtext is get rid of gays=no more pedophilia. The NYT reports
    Gay priests say they are being scapegoated for crimes committed by pedophiles and covered up by bishops who never faced any discipline. The interviews made clear that they now had the strong sense of being persecuted by their own church. "I feel like a Jew in Berlin in the 1930's," said a 48-year-old gay priest who has spent 18 years in a religious order. He said he was considering donning a pink triangle - the symbol used by the Nazis - and getting heterosexual priests and members of the laity to wear the triangles as a protest.
    Steve Clemons has a sure fire strategy to shove those F*ckers heads back into their apses:
    I am generally opposed to "outing" those who are homosexual unless they are engaged in political activity that helps to repress others in society who are also gay. I really do think that it is time to OUT specific cardinals and other senior church officials who contribute to this policy. Vatican City is a recognized city state -- and thus is subject as well to the currents of politics. It is time that some of the currents ran back against this bigoted policy.
    Some of the scariest anti-gay activists are gays in the closet as is evident in wingnut America. The question is this: Is Benedict XVI in the closet as well. Some of those who have felt the power of his golden scepter may be ready to speak out.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    There has to be some way we can blame this on George Bush.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    troll alert. The we in the above link is a hoax. Chalk it up to wingnut satire.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Good Post DS. I've been worrying about heating costs myself, I can't imagine what it will be like for people like yourself on fixed incomes. I fear our leaders couldn't care less.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    W.C. Varones: There has to be some way we can blame this on George Bush. [Art Buchwald]I'm sorry...
    The Bush administration took a 180-degree turn when the president announced he was responsible for things that went wrong in the Gulf States after Hurricane Katrina. The new policy required a new department in the White House to get out the word. It was named It Was All My Fault (IWAMF). The chief was an old Bush crony from Texas, and the staff was made up of speechwriters from the White House. The chief spoke, "In every speech, we have to include something that the president is sorry for." "It's going to be hard, because for five years we've said he never made a mistake," a writer said.


    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    kdog-That link looks foreboding, I hope the press keeps on it. Slimebags.
    I fear our leaders couldn't care less.
    Our leaders care a great deal. The more expensive oil is the richer they get. Why else would they put cars on the road that are less efficient then those of the 70's.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#12)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    DogSoldier: I'm going to worry about you all winter. I will write to my senators about this issue. My congressman is a right-winger who doesn't care. I recently bought a couple of pairs of polar-fleece type jammies with an eye toward staying warm with the heat turned way down this winter. Let us know how you are getting along.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Real dirtbags squeak. They threw people out on the street with 6 hours notice to find a place to live. What do the bastards think, everyones got the means to stay at the Hilton until they find an apartment? By, of, and for the people my arse.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    How surprising catholic churchy charly is right in line with the vatican, he says it is the gays, and consentual. The Boston pedophile priest scandal was a left wing hoax. Are you only into twelve or thirteen year olds and do not like them younger? Is that why you define pedophilia as sex with prepubescents children? What about adolescent children, are they not children? Man are you a twist case.
    125 Moby Thesaurus words for "child": adolescent


    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    char-BTW links please for your claims. I already posted links for you last round, but obvioulsly you never looked. pedophilia and the Church here is an appetizer:
    22. Austria - Bishop Kurt Krenn, St. Poelten, resigned after authorities found up to 40,000 lurid pornographic images, including child pornography, on computers at the seminary located in his diocese. (Resigned September 30, 2004)


    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Good Post DS.
    Yes, I agree. There are many who will be cold this winter. Many more than usual. How many will die, I don't know. This is much to our shame.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#18)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    That stuff about Justice Ginsburg having advocated that the age of consent be lowered to 12 is BS.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#19)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    More on Ginsburg here.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#20)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    That awful, racist NRA has protected the civil rights of New Orleans residents better than the local cops did. They sued to stop broad gun confiscation and the court issued a restraining order to that effect.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#21)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    The Porn of War More evidence that the human race is a few major evolutionary steps from reaching some semblance of moral behavior.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    DS writes:
    We all know that this fuel shortage is primarily a scam.
    On a personal note I hope you get assistance and all turns out right. But no, "we" don't all know that. As a matter of fact, you might come to the understanding that shortages are caused by a lack of production, and we haven't been building new oil refineries for 30 years. You might ask your congress people about that. You might also ask Ted Kennedy and all the others who fight against nuclear power and against ANWAR and off shore drilling what you are now supposed to use to keep warm with.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    char-your reading comprehension is way out of line with your ability for rote parroting. The Ginsberg paper was about gender baised language not age of consent for one: Ginsburg didn't address the age-of-consent issue because it wasn't relevant to her topic. Say it with me: She wasn't writing about age; she was writing about gender! Duh... char the quote is from the proposed law and not Judge Ginsburg's language:
    In the course of making this point, Ginsburg's 1974 paper praises and then quotes a draft Senate bill that never became law. The proposed law has, she writes, "a definition of rape that, in substance, conforms to the equality principle." She then quotes the bill's language:
    18 U.S.C. §2032
    from the United States District Court for the District of Montana Donald W. Molloy, District Judge, Presiding Submitted May 4, 2000* Seattle, Washington Filed May 11, 2000 Before: Pamela Ann Rymer and Thomas G. Nelson, Circuit Judges, and William D. Browning,** District Judge. Per Curiam Opinion a prosecution for engaging in a sexual act with a person under 12 years of age.
    link

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    You also might ask the oil industry why they have not pushed hard to increase the size of the nations refining capacity in years. Keep Adam Smith in mind while you do so. It's a bit more logical than the "It's all the fault of the damn environmentalists that dare to desire leaving a slightly less spoiled world for future generations". Plenty of blame to go around on all sides, no matter how much one side says "it's all the other guys fault".

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#25)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    On the other hand, maybe DS can heat his home via conversion of Bush's alcohol consumption.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#26)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    Squeaky, what is your religion? Just curious..... I was born and raised Catholic tho I'm a pissed off one right now.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    Curley v. NAMBLA The ACLU of Massachusetts is representing the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) and a number of individual NAMBLA members in a civil lawsuit brought in U.S. District Court.
    ACLUM's motion to dismiss the suit on the grounds that the claims were barred by the First Amendment was denied by the court, which noted that the complaint could be read to suggest that the defendants did more than to make available the material contained in their publications and on their web site.
    In other words, a trial on evidence of complicity in crimes could go forward. IS THERE ANY SUCH EVIDENCE?
    In a subsequent order, the court dismissed the claims against NAMBLA as an organization, holding that, as an unincorporated association, it could not be sued in its own name.
    The court's rulings allow the remaining defendants to renew their request for dismissal of the suit based on a factual showing that their conduct was limited to the expression of ideas and information. Attorneys: John Reinstein, Sarah Wunsch.
    This civil case is MOOT unless there is evidence that there was complicity in the crime. "Expression of ideas and information" alone does not constitute a crime. The ACLU, doing nothing more than defending the First Amendment.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    Squealer Jim, with his 'old canards are good canards' line: Posted by Jim: "But no, "we" don't all know that." Then let's hold AN INVESTIGATION to find the facts. Just like the investigation that was eventually held into the facts of Bush-backing ENRON and Reliant scamming the Westcoast energy markets and walking away with $12 billion plus in illegal earnings. "As a matter of fact, you might come to the understanding that shortages are caused by a lack of production," Not an issue in either case. "and we haven't been building new oil refineries for 30 years." Texas is no enemy of oil refineries. Oil companies can build as many refineries as they please. • "fight against nuclear power" For reasons like Bush-backing FirstEnergies near nuclear DISASTER west of Toledo Ohio in Feb 2001, when a decade of NEGLIGENCE led to a fist-sized chunk of steel corroded into nothingness, and the coolant held in the reactor ONLY by the paperthin stainless cladding, blowing out the gaping hole like bubble gum. Yeah, we don't really want negligent corporations to build or operate nuke plants. And when FirstEnergy didn't trim trees in Ohio around their powerlines (to raise profits), the Historic Eastcoast Power Outage occured as a direct result. More evidence of why the people don't want to 'trust us' when it comes to Bush's cronies. • "against ANWAR" NONE of ANWAR's oil will go to the United States. ANWAR drilling backers admit that it will be sold to Japan. • "off shore drilling" Which is still illegal in Florida under Jeb Bush. So start your campaign with his office, Squealer.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#29)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    I've heard other information related to the price of propane. I called my distributor and tried to get them to come out and fill my tank before the inevitable price increases. They were more than a little difficult. They probably see this as a chance to increase profits as well. The short story is after a little persuasion they saw things my way. If your on propane, get it now.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#30)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    Hey, Last Night in Little Rock, you out there? Try making this disappear. You should get a kick out of is as well, Squeaky.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    PIL - ANWAR oil will go to Japan, and Japan, in turn will purchase a like amount from some other source, most likely Mexico, for the US. This does at least two things. 1. It reduces transportation costs for both countries. 2. It reduces the chance of an oil spill while in transit. Now, as Paul Harvey says, you know the rest of the story. Adept - I have no idea, and neither do you, if the oil companies have been happy with the opposition to new refineries and off shore drilling by the enviromental wackos of the Left. And before you press that argument so far remember that a business must increase volume to increase profits in the long run. In any event, the wackos have made your position pretty well moot. et al - Any way you cut it we have not increased production to meet demand. We also have not truly explored alternative, let's call them "new" energy sources. The reasons are varied, but the evironmental wackos have to be at the top of the list, followed by the NIMBY people and the feds not helping by coming up with 40 plus blends.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    PIL - ANWAR oil will go to Japan, and Japan, in turn will purchase a like amount from some other source, most likely Mexico, for the US. This does at least two things.
    Let's have a little proof of your allegation of Japan's intentions. Link? It remains a fact that the oil industry has not pushed to increase capacity. So your attempt to blame only one is still as incorrect as it initially was.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Posted by Jim: "PIL - ANWAR oil will go to Japan," Thus proving that your claim was a lie. "You might also ask Ted Kennedy and all the others who fight against ... ANWAR ... what you are now supposed to use to keep warm with." ANWR drilling will not produce a DROP of US oil to keep us warm. It will permanently damage and destroy permafrost, and further degrade one of the most important habitats left on the earth. The oil will be SOLD for private profit. So this is just another case of Repubjesucrats demolitioning our national wildlife areas for the profit of the few. Adept, it looks like you're addressing me, but I presume you're addressing Squealer.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Well as it turns out, all those that left Houston could have stayed, since the storm missed them. Better safe than sorry, though. Errr...except for the ones in that big honkin'/flaming bus.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Anyone have more information on this? FEMA, DHS looked at different weather forecasts?
    Yeah, Tom Ridge chose Accu-weather when he was at DHS because he used them when he was governor of Pennsylvania. The guy who runs Accu-weather is named Joel Myers and he has a lot of pull with a few PA politicians, including Rick Santorum, who is trying to push a bill that would make the NWS take all their "competing" forecasts off the internet. So the public would have to pay to get Accu-weather's hurricane track forecasts instead of getting them for free from the NWS.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#36)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    A formerly optimistic reporter, with two years on the ground in Baghdad, is not so optimistic anymore, and for good reason. The Iraqi Civil War

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    PIL
    When the 'Chicken Little' claims it is a choice between conservation OR consumption, they fodder on chow meant for beasts, not a cuisine suitable for intelligent creators of prosperity and abundance. Common sense dictates that health and wealth is preferable to erroneous and suspect claims of imminent collapse of the environment. Sensible and responsible citizens recognize prudent objectives. But has government intervention into market forces provided solutions? I submit it has not. What it has accomplished is the reinforcement and expansion of a more dangerous predator, one of which they are a principal part.


    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Adept - Prove that it is not.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Jim: Adept - Prove that it is not. Define for us what you mean by your use of the word "proof", Jim. While you're at it, have a look at: The Oil Industry, Gas Supply and Refinery Capacity: More Than Meets the Eye An investigative report presented by Senator Ron Wyden June 14, 2001
    The oil industry and its allies would have the public believe that insufficient refining capacity, restrictive environmental standards, growing gasoline demand and OPEC production cutbacks are the primary reasons for the current oil and gas supply problem. However, the record shows – supported by documents I have obtained – that there is more to the story. Specifically, the documents suggest that major oil companies pursued efforts to curtail refinery capacity as a strategy for improving profit margins; that competing oil companies worked together to subvert supply; that refinery closures inhibited supply; and that oil companies are reaping record profits, yet may benefit from a proposed national energy policy that would offer financial incentives to expand refinery capacity.


    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Senator Ron Wyden,(D)Oregon:
    Committee Membership: Senate Special Committee on Aging Senate Committee on the Budget Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on Public Lands and Forests - Ranking Minority Member Subcommittee on National Parks Subcommittee on Water and Power Senate Committee on Finance Subcommittee on Health Care Subcommittee on International Trade Senate Select Committee on Intelligence


    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Adept - Prove that it is not.
    Jim, Thanks for proving conclusively that you have no CLUE when it comes to simple logic. Guess you never bothered taking a course in it. What a pity. If you had you would realize that what you have suggested is an impossibility. One cannot prove a negative. You made the allegation. It's up to you to defend it. Edger- We need the foot cork over here again. Jim's gushing all over the place from this one. :)

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Adept:
    ...We need the foot cork over here again. Jim's gushing all over the place from this one.
    Hey... It's hard work... might have to start working some "saturdays"... ;-)

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Here comes the blind commissioner They've got him in a trance One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker The other is in his pants.. ---Dylan


    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    edger- Thanks for the link and Dylan quote. I'll be pleasantly surprised if a certain someone actually has the nerve to show up for their serving of crow. I'll not be holding my breath, it's too beautiful a day outside. Adieu.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#46)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Adept: Me also - it's 70 degrees out, gentle breeze, no clouds... I'm outta here... have a good day!

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#47)
    by chupetin on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    Over at TPMCafe: The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights (FTCR) today exposed internal oil company memos that show how the industry intentionally reduced domestic refining capacity to drive up profits.... The three internal memos from Mobil, Chevron, and Texaco show different ways the oil giants closed down refining capacity and drove independent refiners out of business. The confidential memos demonstrate a nationwide effort by American Petroleum Institute, the lobbying and research arm of the oil industry, to encourage the major refiners to close their refineries in the mid-1990s in order to raise the price at the pump. "Large oil companies have for a decade artificially shorted the gasoline market to drive up prices," said FTCR president Jamie Court, who successfully fought" to keep Shell Oil from needlessly closing its Bakersfield, California refinery this year.... "It's now obvious to most Americans that we have a refinery shortage," said petroleum consultant Tim Hamilton, who authored a recent report about oil company price gouging for FTCR. "To point to the environmental laws as the cause simply misses the fact that it was the major oil companies, not the environmental groups, that used the regulatory process to create artificial shortages and limit competition."

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:17 PM EST
    Here is the link to the release Chupetin mentions in the post above: NEWS RELEASE September 7, 2005 Internal Memos Show Oil Companies Intentionally Limited Refining Capacity To Drive Up Gasoline Prices

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:17 PM EST
    Posted by pigwiggle: "Hey, Last Night in Little Rock, you out there? Try making this disappear. You should get a kick out of is as well, Squeaky.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:17 PM EST
    Posted by pigwiggle: "Hey, Last Night in Little Rock, you out there? Try making this disappear. You should get a kick out of is as well, Squeaky." The NRA, late as usual -- too busy selling .50 cal sniper rifles to terrorists. No complaint from anyone on the right about the use of armed and deputized mercenaries in a US state. B

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:32 PM EST
    From PPJ-
    Perhaps you can show us a peer review of this paper? You know, one that says it is incorrect? If so, please let me know, as I would like to read it.
    Gee PPJ, you are slipping in your advanced years. That's twice in a row when I've asked for corraboration on something you've posted, and twice I've gotten the brilliant response "prove it's not". As I said the last time, take a logic course. One cannot prove a negative. Once again, you made an allegation, based on a "scientific" article from a so-called "scientific" journal that ignores the fundamental part of science known as peer-review. I believe in peer-review as a vital part of science, and asked if you had corroberation. As you seem to believe this so strongly, I find it curious you are so unwilling to (and I've been unable to) find a single corrobaration from any scientific procedure that conducts "peer review". I would think this would concern you, as it seriously undermines the credibility of your "proof".
    Peer Review v : evaluate professionally a colleague's work
    What you are doing here is not peer review, unless you are claiming that you and the others you are throwing numbers around with are qualified professional colleague's of the individual who wrote the paper you are citing. For me, there are two words I attribute to "science" that is not subjected to a peer review: "Junk Science". I also consider many (but far from all) Global warming and cooling models to fit this two word term. "ID" also fits the bill. Now, this is the part where you try to make it what you assume someone else believes, as opposed to what you've stated.

    Re: Open Thread Friday (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:32 PM EST
    posted above to wrong window. Please delete.