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Open Thread: Tom DeLay

By Jeralyn, Section Tom DeLay
Posted on Wed Sep 28, 2005 at 11:19:15 PM EST
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For those who want to vent against Tom DeLay, here's a chance. Just respect the comment rules applicable for all comments

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    Open Thread: Tom DeLay | 29 comments (29 topical)
    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    Tom DeLay has about as much in common with Jesus as our involvement in the Iraq Debacle has in common with World War II.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    I believe in Jesus and every printed word attributed to Jesus that can be found in the Bible. I was raised a Catholic, but when I grew up, I discovered that the Catholic interpretation of the Bible kind of picked and chose certain aspects of Jesus's teachings that they found applicable and appropriate for their organization at the time, and those aspects changed a thousand times over the years. Catholocism stopped making sense to me. So I stopped calling myself a Catholic, but I still believed in Jesus, so I started calling myself a Christian. And then, wouldn't you know it, along came the Born Again Christians? Mercedes Benz and BMW driving Born Again Christians? There is no way, according to the Bible, that a Mercedes Benz/Mercedes driving Christian will ever be accepted into the gates of Heaven. The Bible says it's kind of like a camel making its way through the eye of a needle. Mercedes Benz/BMW driving Christians have taken over the Christian religion and damn near destroyed the whold world. I'm not a Christian anymore, but I still believe in Jesus. Tom DeLay is a Mercedes/BMW driving Christian, and a fraud in my opinion.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#3)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    Ernesto: Whether you agree with this war or not (I don't), the situation in the middle east actually has a whole lot to do with World War I & II. The British did such a miserable job of dividing the spoils of those wars that the boundaries (if not the sentiments) have been and will continue to be in constant dispute. Regarding Tom DeLay, I hope to see him go down in flames. He's a disgusting human being and a blight on democracy. He deserves a zealous prosecution. But for the sake of all Americans, he also deserves a zealous defense. Every trial has the potential of creating precedent, and once the precedent is out there it's a bit like putting toothpaste back into the tube to get rid of it. Everyone deserves a competent defense. Even slimebags. Even rich slimebags. Without it, your rights and mine get eroded away.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    Hey Gentlyweepingbanjo: Do you open presents on Christmas? Do you ever eat holiday-shaped cookies around Dec. 15 - Jan. 4 (have to eat the left-overs)? Do you get to take some time off work between Dec. 21 and Dec. 28 (if you're lucky, till Jan. 2)? Maybe not. But...the overwhelming majority of Americans can answer "yes" to at least one of the poorly phrased questions posed above. It is highly unfortunate that identifying with all some few Christian Catholic any religious beliefs and/or morals somehow makes others empowered to label that individual a street corneryou are certainly going to hell you homoxsexual premaritial sex having working on sunday burning in hell esq "Crazy Christian". Thing is, Christian (or whatever you want to call it) followers, believers, and beggars-hangers-on value the concept of faith due to the message of morality that often accompanies such beliefs (ie. don't steal, lie, cheat, bang your buddies wife, etc.). What is wrong with those values? Isn't Christian faith just a more extreme version of "doing unto others as you would have them do to you"-style program? I agree with you extremists just as much as anybody that people hiding behind their "Christian Faith" who condemn homosexuals to hell--along with anyone who has ever committed a sin, as crazy. The crux of this post is that attacking any extreme position that is based on a mainstream view (ie. labeling anyone that goes to church on Sunday as one who believes you should read the Bible or go to hell)completely and ignorantly disregards the majority of those who recognize the broader values embraced by Christianity. Shall we completely disregard the concept of "morality", whatever it may be? Bang your neighbor's wife, steal his car, and burn down his house...because you can? You have to look at the other end of the spectrum (to make it easy for you...burn in hell sinner v. burn down the house cause you can). It is silly to attack the concept of faith (and considered a personal attack by most who would profess so) by referring to extreme examples. Nobody will get Nowhere by failing at attempting to understand where others with different opposing views base their opinion, no matter how farfetched.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    Finally, The Hammer gets nailed.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    You are right though -- any person that drives a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Bentley, Aston Martin, Porsche, Caddy, Lexus, Jaguar, Infiniti, etc., CANNOT be a Christian. Christians have to drive Chevy's, Buick's, Oldsmobile's, Toyato's, Kia's, Dodge's, Ford's, Pontiac's, or Volvo's, etc. Otherwise, Not A Christian.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    It's about the difference between those who have and those who suffer. It's about the difference between need, want, power, greed, and where one finds joy in one's life. It's about the space between selfishness and giving without judging how others ended up with less than you, then believing that you are more deserving than they are, and therefore, you can drive around in your Mercedes /BMW and act like God wants this for you, and it's okay with Him for those with less than you to suffer.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    What the hell (heaven) does that have to do with Christianity?

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#9)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    "Oh Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz, my friends all drive Porshes, I must make amends Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends, So Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz?"

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    Oh Lord wont you buy me a color TV? Dialing for dollars is trying to call me.." Hey Roger, here's a good bar bet question.... Name the shortest song ever recorded.. Uh huh, you guessed it. Et al - So the gist of this is that corporate money was sent to the RNC who in turned sent it to Texas Repub candidates who were running against...gasp... Demos. Supposedly Delay conspired in someway about this. Delay says it is all politics, and is ready to fight. In the meantime his Demo foe looks about as attractive as somebody who would take money from Buddhist Monks... Should be fun to watch. Let the games begin.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#11)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    "I wait for delivery, each day, until three, so oh, Lord, won't you buy me a color TV" Jim, Conspiracy always looks pretty thin, but remember that it also requires little proof. The agreement, plus ONE overt act makes the defendant responsible for all kinds of things that they may never have even known about. If Delay mailed a check, he could be guilty of conspiracy and mail fraud. The list goes on. Conspiracy has been called "the prosecutor's violin". I dont remember by whom.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    gentlyweepingguitar wrote:
    who would thoroughly enjoy participating in an online discussion throughout this trial, have an open thread where we can trash him and your friend who is defending him?
    I believe in Jesus and every printed word attributed to Jesus that can be found in the Bible.
    Hmmmm, let me see... Do unto others...casting stones...
    It's about the difference between those who have and those who suffer
    And then there is jealousy...

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    Hey Roger, here's a good bar bet question.... Name the shortest song ever recorded.. Uh huh, you guessed it. Assuming you mean "Mercedes Benz", I'll take that bet, Jim. It's not even close to being the shortest song ever recorded. And yes, I'll agree to a stipulation that we are talking about real recording artists who actually released albums on major labels, not some homegrown garage band who burned 20 CD's on their Imac.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    All today's music is way too long, so I recorded me a 23 second song... Shel Silverstein. (My apologies to the late great Shel if I got the words wrong .. but you get the point)

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    As to the shortest songs ever played live, my money is on The Ramones. Literally, each song took about 30 seconds at their break neck pace.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    This opinion column was published today in the San Francisco Chronicle. The author is Debra Saunders, who is definitely a conservative and normally reserves her ire for Democrats. Not this time.
    A POLITICAL PARTY is in big trouble when a criminal indictment may be the best thing that could happen to it. Yet it may well be that the indictment by a Texas grand jury of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay finally prods GOP biggies to stumble before a mirror and take a long look at what they have become. Only a mother could love the bleary, bloated faces staring back.
    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    DA – They say perception is everything. Would you pass the incense please??? Web – Don’t know the author’s bias…. I have a feeling though it is more libertarian than conservative or Repub. justpaul – Okay, I owe you a drink. What is it?

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    Sigh. OK, I'll bite. From that hotbed of liberal activism, Townhall.com:
    In July 1992, Debra J. Saunders became a columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle. Her column currently runs on Sundays, Tuesdays and Fridays in the paper. Before working for the Chronicle, Saunders worked as a columnist and editorial writer for the Los Angeles Daily News, beginning in 1987. Saunders' column is syndicated through Creators Syndicate and runs in newspapers throughout the country. In addition to writing her syndicated column, Saunders has written pieces that have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the National Review, The Weekly Standard, Reader's Digest and Reason magazine. She has also appeared on "Politically Incorrect," CNN, BBC radio and "The News Hour" on PBS. Her book, The World According to Gore, published by Encounter Books, was released earlier this year. In a world full of labels, Saunders is herself. A one-time registered Democrat turned Republican, she claims no loyalty to either party and takes pride in her unpredictability and irreverence for big-party politics. "I'm a Republican," she says, "but not a good Republican."
    Which begs the question: what's a good Republican?

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    BusinessWeek: "Adds one well-placed GOP lobbyist: "Republicans are beginning to look and feel like the Democrats of the late 1980's -- out of touch, aloof, and arrogant."

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#21)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    Jim, I don't know what the shortest song ever recorded on a major label record is, but I'm sure it's not "Mercedes Benz" because Syd Barrett's "Effervescing Elephant", released by Capitol/EMI among others, clocks in at a brisk 57 seconds. There may well be even shorter songs out there. A couple contenders appear on Pink Floy's "The Final Cut", which includes what sound like intros to other songs as separate tracks, but I didn't consider them because they don't really sound like full songs. EE does. And just to stay on topic: Even if he's 100% innocent, or if, as Al Gore would say, there is no controlling legal authority on this, DeLay is getting what he's had coming. He made a huge target out of himself. From what the WAPO has to say on it, proving this case may be a lot harder than realized, and if Earle fails, he's probably made DeLay even stronger. And that would be a shame.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    web - So she is a registered Reub, but claims no loyalty. Okay, my description fits her perfectly.
    I have a feeling though it is more libertarian than conservative or Repub
    Good Repub? Good Demo? Don't know. But party loyalty would seem to be in there someplace. justpaul - Never heard of it, but I'll take your word... As for Pink Floyd.. No one I would be at the bar with would know anything about him. I think the same would be true of the Elephant, no matter what he was doing... ;-) Remember, to collect you have to get the other party to agree you won. As for believing the WaPost, I gave up on them since they got me in big time trouble during the Katruna flap...

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    David Brooks:
    The DeLay Era would be marked by one word: partisanship. Far from being a conservative ideologue, DeLay was a traditional Tammany Hall politician who would do whatever it took to put more Republican fannies in House seats. DeLay was never the ruthless tyrant news media reports made him out to be. He's actually a modest, decent and considerate man. But he is willing to sacrifice all else for the team.


    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    Gentlyweepinggitar: If you are no longer a 'Christian,' then why believe the Bible contains all Jesus' recorded statements? The Bible is a PRODUCT. It does not contain many marvelous statements attributed to Jesus that can be found in either the Nag Hammadi library or the Dead Sea Scrolls. As I have before, I recommend The Complete Jesus, which compiles these other sources with the Bible verses. Talking about Jesus' teaching (rather than the Gospel-ignoring babble of jingo-jesusfreaks) in a thread about Tom DeLay is ... well, it makes plenty of sense. Here's a man who sold everything in order to buy himself a name. Beat killing bugs for a living, some would say. But the 'accomplishment' ends in grief, after so much apparent success. And he and his friends have gorgonized an entire political party into the biggest fall in US history. Horrible to watch.
    49 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.   50 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 51 For many are called, but few are chosen.
    (from The (Thomas) Jefferson Bible) Most partisan (Leninist) Bushies have no clue what Jesus was talking about. They don't read to understand -- they read to learn words to fool others, for money.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    They don't read to understand -- they read to learn words to fool others, for money.
    THAT is probably... the most ... AWARE ... statement I've seen posted since the first time I came here. :)

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    MD...my World War II reference was in the context of the latest RNC pablum being spewed out by wingnuts, i.e., we have to stay in Iraq to defeat the Nazi/Muslim/terrorists. They are the bad guys, we are the good guys, and this is 1944... HOO-RAH! Yet another bIZZARO wORLD fantasy foisted on the middle and lower class victims of the Neocon geopolitical cheesy chess game.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#27)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    Webmacher: Please don't post entire articles. *Brief* quotes with links is sufficient. When you post entire articles it just uses up TalkLeft's bandwidth, makes the pages slower to load, and exposes TalkLeft to copyright liability.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    Thanks, Mike. I'm going to delete the text to the articles now.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:31 PM EST
    Never heard of it, but I'll take your word No need to take my word for it, Jim. You can check for yourself at: Mercedes Benz 1 Min, 46 Sec and Effervescing Elephant 57 Sec As for Pink Floyd, No one I would be at the bar with would know anything about him. Jim, this is either a witty remark on your part or a beautiful coincidence. Given your apparent sincerity, I'm going to assume the latter, but I still have my doubts. Either way, thanks for the chuckle.

    Re: Open Thread: Tom DeLay (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:31 PM EST
    DA – They say perception is everything. Yes, I've thought you were a bit bull-goose looney, so the fact that you have strange thoughts and perceptions isn't surprising. Would you pass the incense please??? Yes, we wouldn't want the neighbors to think you're toking up again, would we? LOL, you're still as incomprehensible as ever, PPJ.

    Open Thread: Tom DeLay | 29 comments (29 topical)