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The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution?

By Jeralyn, Section Foreign Affairs
Posted on Fri Dec 02, 2005 at 06:33:12 PM EST
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Australian Prime Minister John Howard missed the message in Singapore's barbaric execution yesterday of 25 year old Nguyen Tuong Van.

"I hope the strongest message that comes out of this ... is a message to the young of Australia -- don't have anything to do with drugs, don't use them, don't touch them, don't carry them, don't traffic in them," Howard told Australian radio.

No. The message is that mandatory executions of non-violent drug offenders are inexcusable acts of barbarism that warrant sanctions against the offending government.

A good place to start is Singapore Airlines. They fly out of New York, LA, San Francisco and Vancouver.

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    The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? | 14 comments (14 topical)
    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#1)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Here's the question that no one seems to be able to answer. These guys and gals from AUS that are caught in SE Asia are usually running drugs, or have the drugs planted in their suitcases so they are unknowingly running drugs. Why aren't the hanging nations interested in going after those who are at the source of the running? The whole policy seems to be one of kill the peons, but don't go after the source. This seems like a gross misuse of the penal system. If AUS and the various other countries worked together they could probablly ferrit out the sources and place a dent in the taffic. A policy of hanging, or deliver the source for punishment would serve the end goal more effectivly than mandatory hanging. This way you kill off the person who has information on who the source of the problem is.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#2)
    by chemoelectric on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    I think Howard must have been misquoted. I'll make the correction:
    "I hope the strongest message that comes out of this ... is a message to the young of Australia -- don't have anything to do with [Singapore], don't use [it], don't touch [it], don't carry [it], don't traffic in [it]," Howard told Australian radio.
    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    This kid had a million $ pure heroin on him, A tidy profit for him but some collateral damage to the general public. Then we have the case of Bill Clinton pardoning the young politically connected fella who sold 800 lbs of coke. We're talkin major collateral damage, scores of deaths probably. He's my hero.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#4)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    TL, I'm all for boycotting Singapore, but why aren't you as hyped up about China? China accounts for over 3400(!) executions/year and many of them are for drug crimes as well as business and corruption crimes. Surely China must execute 10's or maybe even 100's x more people for drugs than Singapore?

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Of course killing people is barbaric, but on the other hand people have to realize the consequences of their actions. If you have to take drugs, for God's sake, don't do it in Singapore or you will be hanged. In this instance J. Howard was right. This execution should be a signal to all the people who are so reckless as to be in possesion of drugs in Singapore or anywhere else, where this is a VERY serious crime. They have to come to their senses, otherwise they will meet the same end as this Tuong Van. It's really a clear-cut message...

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Other than boycotts, which rarely work, the Australian government has another option, to expand the safe injection site program beyond Sydney to other Australian cities. If addicts can just check themselves into a supervised clinic to get their fixes, then there's no economic reason for Nguyen to risk his life to sell it to them. I wrote more about this here.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    If you have to take drugs, for God's sake, don't do it in Singapore or you will be hanged. Nguyen did not take, buy, sell, or even look at drugs while he was in Singapore. He was only changing planes there with drugs in his bag. No Singaporean would have been affected by his actions in any way. Surely China must execute 10's or maybe even 100's x more people for drugs than Singapore? China does execute more people, but per capita, Singapore is far ahead of the rest of the world.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    I had a nice visit to Singapore. It was a little creepy when I filled out the immigration form and it said in big, bold, all capitals: "DEATH FOR DRUG TRAFFICKERS". But, I got the point. I realize that if he was just changing planes, that he might not have been aware of the regulations, but still. People in the area know this stuff. I agree that many of Singapore's draconian laws curtail freedom, including that to life. But, it is their country, and they can change the laws (like they did for bubblegum, I believe) if they want.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    Every time I think about Nguyen I get more and more pissed. First, death for carrying drugs is ridiculously unfair. Second, the heroin was bound for Australia, it wasn't going to be sold in Singapore. Third, if 14 oz. Of heroin were cut into 26,000 doses (and those doses would each "ruin a life," that's abou 1/2000th of an ounce per hit. Finally, an unelected authoritarian government that doesn't allow free speech or freedom of assembly, runs their courts however the good ol' boys want, and beat people with rattan canes deserves to be destroyed. To hell with the argument that Singapore is a "soverign state, and enforcing its laws" as the right-wingers claim. By that reasoning, we have no business in Iraq or Afghanistan, or telling Iran or North Korea what weapons and technology they can and cannot have. But the right-wing pigs think they can do whatever the hell they want if its in the interests of "freedom" (the only "freedom" they're concerned with is the freedom for the rich to maximize profit at any cost). John Howard is a punk bastard. The murder of an Australian by a fascist regime isn't reason enough to risk profitable business deals with said fascists. He's exactly like Bu$h, a worthless schmuck if there ever was one.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    The drug carriers are as bad as the drug lord. I do not agree capital punishment, but the second best choice for punishing the drug carriers is a life sentence in jail. Therefore, I probably prefer to choose a capital punishment as Nguyan's life will be better off. He first accepts Christ as His lord which most of you dont anywaay. This is more important than anything. He has a second life in heaven. I think John Howard's comment is important. Wake up australian, especially those white people who had the initial history or reputation of introducing the drugs around the world in centuries ago. Therefore, the australian society especially the white australian society should learn from this important lesson : Do not use , involve, traffic or carry the drugs. Take a look aorund, those film stars, models or even some politicians, they somewhere in their lives have used drugs. I will not like my kids hanging around with these people.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    I think it's more important that Singapore stop this disgusting practice, that the fact Nguyen's better off because "he accepts christ and so will have a second life in heaven." I'm Jewish, I _don't_ accept Jesus (and believe he was a false messiah), and yet I'm a good person who will go to "heaven," if there is one. Concentrate on improving this world, we can do nothing to guarantee another. If Howard had any cajones, he (and the leaders of Europe, where Sing. PM Loong is and made the "the penalty is death" statement before Nguyen died), would tell Singapore that when the death penalty (except for murder, though I don't trust the Singapore courts at all) and caning are off the books, and only then, will Singapore Airlines be allowed to land at Australian, European and American airports. Ditto for other countries landing in Singapore. That will get their attention QUICKLY. They'll either shape up, or get all of their air freight and tourists from east Asia.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    Actually, I meant "cojones," not "cajones..." Also, Europe screams and yells at the U.S. when it executes men who break into their ex-wife's house, and kill her, her parents, and several kids. Where was the outrage in Europe when that jerk Loong made his statements saying he would in no way spare Nguyen. I didn't hear ANYTHING from those hypocrites.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:39 PM EST
    Europe screams but it does not place sanctions on the USA for the capital punishment :P. Likewise there should be pressure put on Singapore for its pratices, other countries should scream about it, but sanctions in this instance would be a gross exaggeration. I condemn Singapore for what it did, but I also find no excuse for Van's affair with drugs. He didn't deserve to die but we have to acknowledge the fact that he had done something wrong. No one planted the drugs on him, he had them willingly and consciously... if I am not mistaken. So the crime is uncontested, only the punishment for it is utterly harsh. This distinction is very important because some of you suggested that, theoretically, spitting could be made a capital crime. If it was made so, we would question both the crime and the punishment. But here it's not the case. We have no innocent man being persecuted. Of course it is a sad story, and of course it is unfair (even barbaric), but if it serves as a deterrent to other people who would be tempted by drugs (either taking them, smuggling them, or whatever) than Van's lesson will have one positive side. That's all. No one's cheering on the authorities of Singapore.

    Re: The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Nyugen's just another gook. To hell with him. Now one less gook in Australia. My compliment to the Singaporean gooks.

    The Message in Nguyen Tuong Van's Execution? | 14 comments (14 topical)