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Wednesday Open Thread

I've got some work to do, so feel free to chat about these or your own topics.

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    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    The first time my then four year-old son wanted to take a shower with me went something like this: get into shower, dad turns around to get soap, son bolts out the shower and bathroom screaming "I'm scared of your butt, daddy!! I'm scared of your butt!!" American foreign policy is like my ass right now -- it just ain't pretty or inspiring of anything but fear, and it's scaring more people away than it's gathering in support. I have to put my dog to sleep in a few hours, so forgive me.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Dadler, My deepest sympathies about your dog.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Dadler, Doing the right thing is often very scary, and unnatractive, but still very necessary. Perhaps what you should do is quit washing your ass for a month or two, and then point out to your son how much more frightening things can be when good people neglect to do the right thing.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Sorry about your dog, Dadler. I had to put mine down a few months ago. At some point you realize that its the last best thing you can do for her.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    My sympathies Dadler, I don't have pets anymore cause I just can't take it when they pass. Anyone else wish to limit variable's scope? ;-)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Sorry about the doggie Dadler... Been there done that & not fun. et al.... Happy Pearl Harbor Day to all... Another day we are NEVER suppose to forget... remember?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Dadler - The nearest I ever came to getting arrested was when someone ran over the family pet. So I understand and extend my sympathy.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    While gross great analogy Variable. I would like to take this time to thank Mr. Dean for continuing to ruin the democratic party. While some of you may agree with him you would also agree that his kind of political manuevering is good for one thing, republican victories. Howard Dean - the gift that keeps on giving. Merry Festivas!

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Sympathies on your dog Dadler... like others, I will not own a pet again. When they die it's like losing a family member.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Yes BB...Pearl Harbor Day. Thank god we had better leadership then. "Nothing to fear but fear itself..."

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Dadler, ALL dogs go to heaven when they die. All of 'em... ;-)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    BB: You ask how liberals can be "for abortion" and against the death penalty at the same time. A difficult question. In ways, I'm the wrong person to answer it, since I have never been able to find a comfortable position on the death penalty. More often than not I suppose I'm against it, largely because of the possibility of killing an innocent person being far scarier than letting lots of guilty people go free. To invoke a cliche. But anyways, I hope you understand that the pro-choice platform is not pro-abortion. I have never heard anyone speak non-chalantly about abortion; clearly it's a rough decision, no matter how you slice it. But a collection of cells is not a human being, and during the first trimester tht's what you're talking about. In any case, contrary to the nutjob party line, individual women should be trusted to deliberate such things with themselves and should be able to turn to doctors that are unafraid for their very lives and/or liberties. Later trimester abortions get more and more problematic the later you get. But GOP Talking Points aside, such late abortions typically originate out of some concern for the mother's health.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    I agree with Howard Dean. And I agree that sometimes the truth is not the best way to win elections. But the truth is the best way to lead a nation. There is no "victory" for us in Iraq. Only more death and lost limbs. If we pull out now or in ten years, the only lasting difference I see is the body count.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    kdog - Actually your FDR quote predates Parl Habor by almost eight years. But really, kdog, what's your point? That the measures taken for our security are not needed? I would not agree with that. I would agree that they have been slow, ill applied and not well thouht out. et al - Perhaps we should cut Dadler some slack in his time of personal pain.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Inspired by a story by: Earl Hamner Jr. ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    American foreign policy is like my ass right now
    Somebody call Bartlett's.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    My condonlences for your dog friend, Dadler. It is hard.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    My point is I don't understand what the definition of "victory" is in this war. And if this war was undertaken to increase our security, I don't see how it could possibly achieve that goal. Invading/occupying Iraq is going to stop a crazy Saudi extremist from blowing something up in NY or LA or DC or CHI? How?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Dadler, you have my sympathies. I deserve some sympathy too. I just concluded sitting through a month-long Federal civil case. As the Presiding Juror, I handed off the verdict about an hour ago. It was fascinating sitting in that glorious 95 year-old courtroom with the venerable Judge Richard Matsch, and watching the excellent lawyering of Larry Pozner. But I have to say that was totally outweighed by four weeks of sitting in the miserable 95 year-old wooden jury chairs, the constant monotonous droning of the plaintiff's lousy-ass lawyer (who I'll call "mumbly Joe"), the evasive and non-responsive witnesses on both sides, and the thousands of pages of admitted evidence, only maybe 50 pages of which were of any value to the jury in its deliberations. To all you lawyers out there: If you're primarily a contract lawyer, don't represent clients in jury trials. If you're boring to the point that the jurors, the judge, and the courtroom staff are alternating between nodding off and being irritated, you're not helping your client. If you are a trial lawyer, get a haircut and/or lay off the Brill creme. If you look like a shyster, jurors have a hard time thinking of you as anything other than a shyster, no matter how good you are at impeaching witness testimony. Bottom line: The case should be about the evidence, not the lawyers. I think some lawyers (even good ones) don't fully get that jurors are not jurists. If by your conduct you make a case about yourself and not about the evidence, you had better pray that there's a type-A personality on the jury who is more focused on the evidence than on the lawyering.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    A festivas for the rest of us! :)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Dadler, Sorry about your dog, and your ass. How come we haven't seen anything about the case of military recruiters on campus lately. I don't think the colleges stand much of a chance of winning that one in the USSC. Does anyone think Ginsburg should recuse herself? and why hasn't she?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Does anyone think Ginsburg should recuse herself?
    I'm lousy at guessing games. Maybe you can tell us why she should?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Patrick, that case was argued yesterday.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Quaker, Her husband is a Prof at Georgetown, one of the parties in action.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    And what are the circumstances under which a justice should recuse?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    The recruiters thing is getting a lot of play on right-leaning blogs. I haven't read through any transcripts, but the blog-consensus of what I've read is that the schools are losing.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Quaker, You tell me. That seems like a conflict of interest to me. I guess we'll see when the decision comes out.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Scalia graduated from Georgetown. Class valedictorian. Is he out too?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:45 PM EST
    Hunh. Patrick doesn't want to talk about it any more.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:45 PM EST
    I'll play... Scalia graduated from Georgetown in 1957, predating the law in question and the school policy which puts the school at odds with the feds. I doubt even a single faculty member from 1957 is still in place. So Scalia's a wee bit further removed from Georgetown than Ginsburg is. Though I do wonder whether he still supports the school financially. Surely he's on the mailing list.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:45 PM EST
    This is an odd, obscure little story quietly surfacing in a few places today:
    December 6, 2005 -- Retired generals and admirals subject to special investigation by Pentagon surveillance/intelligence team. Retired top U.S. generals and admirals planning to attend a December 7 meeting at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Pentagon City, an office and hotel complex next to the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, have drawn the interest of an investigation by special agents of the Department of Defense. ... The generic subject of the meeting is torture and detaining of prisoners. The meeting is strictly a "no media" event, according to individuals familiar with its planning. Pentagon agents have called individuals who have been invited to the meeting and inquired about details and the involvement of active duty officers. ... The Rumsfeld Pentagon is clearly interested in the meeting and the identities of the some 40 invited attendees.
    Link1 DOD Investigates Generals Link2 Military "coup d'état" brewing in Washington???

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:45 PM EST
    Who said this:
    "Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse. The White House is completely disconnected from reality. It's like they're just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq."

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Sailor, Chuck Hagel said it.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    All, JimakaPPJ suggested that I move the following link to the open thread. He calls my Al-Sami Prosecution correlation to McCarthyism inaccurate.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    I similarly wonder if Judge Ginsburg and her husband have a joint bank account. If so then she is quite literally accepting money from the school.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Quaker, Yeah, I still want to play. Graduating from a school and having a spouse currently employed there are two different things IMO. Is yours different?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Dadler, Sorry about your dog. I had to do that a few years ago with my dog, and a couple of years before that with the family cat. Neither of them lived past ten. It's that d**n SD tap water.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    edger, thanks for spoiling the surpise;-) macromaniac, step away from the ppj, put it down and step away.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Sorry Sailor :-) Thought it was it real question. My bad. Some days I'm as dumb as I look. :-(

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Sailor, :-D That made me laugh! Thanks!

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Graduating from a school and having a spouse currently employed there are two different things IMO.
    OK, they're different. Now see if you can articulate a coherent principle that says one should recuse and the other shouldn't.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Scalia was the keynote speaker at Georgetown's "Jesuit Heritage Week" in 2002. Was he paid for his appearance? Or did he waive his usual fee?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Let's make it a little more interesting. Rhenquist didn't recuse himself from hearing the Microsoft antitrust case even though his son was working on a different anti-trust matter for Microsoft at the time. Rhenquist explained that his son's personal and financial status wouldn't be affected by the Supreme Court decision. Now what's the principle that separates Ginsburg on one hand and Scalia and Rhenquist on the other?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    I dunno, and ongoing and continuing financial nexus, unless her husband is doing his work gratis, vs past and independent contacts. Many justices are keynote speakers at law schools, that's meaningless IMO. Having a financially independent child affiliated with a company is different, but close enough that rhenquist should have recused himself too

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    ongoing and continuing financial nexus,
    Finally. Something that resembles a principle. Tell me, how will Martin Ginsburg's financial or personal status be affected by the court's decision? (That's the standard Rhenquist applied.)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    I can think of many ways Mr G.s status at the school might be affected, all for the better. That may be the standard rhenquist used, but IMO, the standard should be a lack of close personal involvement. A continuing financial nexus would be included in that definition.
    Finally. Something that resembles a principle.
    Your being a bit patronizing, no? I think that principle was pretty clear from the beginning, and certainly someone of your intelligence knew that.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    I think that principle was pretty clear from the beginning,
    Absolutely not. Here's how a writer for Slate summed up the circumstances for recusal in an article from 2000:
    Reasons for disqualification are laid out in the United States Code (Title 28, Section 455), but the justices themselves are their own final arbiters. According to the statute, justices, judges, and magistrates should recuse themselves if they have a personal bias concerning anyone in the case, or independent knowledge of the facts in dispute; if they worked on the case as a private or government lawyer; or if they or close relatives have a financial interest in the case.
    While your initial comment in this thread didn't state a specific point of view:
    Does anyone think Ginsburg should recuse herself? and why hasn't she?
    The "Why hasn't she?" kind of gives it away. Ever since then, I've been looking for a reason why she should. That her husband is employed by one of the parties to the suit implies an answer, but it doesn't really spell out a reason.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Well we could have avoided this whole dance then. Do you agree or disagree that she falls into the criteria above? I think she would.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    mac - What I said was:
    mac - Can you explain to me why everything the Left disagrees with "reeks of McCarthyism?" You should remember that, as I have written in this blog, although McCarthy's tactics were wrong, his basic claim was truthful. Their were spies, communists and useful idoits in the US government, Hollywood and the media. The quote was provided as a reminder of who these guys are. They live here, but they cheer terrorist acts elsewhere. While that may be their right, it doesn't mean that I have to be happy with them when they do it
    . So, when I say I disagree with these guys, even though I don't claim they have no rights, that is McCarthyism? It appears that you, as many people do when they whip out ole Joe Mc, want to suppress my free speech. And you claim you are not a Leftie? Well, that sure isn't a libertarin position. Come on mac. You can do better than that.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Do you agree or disagree that she falls into the criteria above? I think she would.
    I don't see the financial interest. How would her decision affect her husband's finances? If she decides in favor of the university, will her husband stand to gain? If she decides against the university, will her husband suffer a financial loss? Having a family member employed by a party to a suit doesn't necessarily indicate a financial interest in the case. For example:
    The press has reported several times that Justice Scalia confided in others that he would like to become the next Chief Justice and that he understood that that could happen only during a Republican presidency. During the time Bush v. Gore was being litigated, Justice Scalia's son John worked at the law firm that represented the Bush campaign in the Florida courts, and Justice Scalia's son Eugene was a partner at the law firm that represented the Bush campaign in the Supreme Court, although the press reported that profits from the Bush v. Gore litigation were deducted by the firm from Eugene Scalia's income.16
    On December 4, 2000-while Bush v. Gore was pending before the Supreme Court-Virginia Lamb Thomas, Justice Thomas' wife, sent an email to 194 Congressional aides, suggesting that if they wanted assistance in being considered for positions in the next administration, they could forward their resumes to one of Mrs. Thomas' coworkers at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank that collaborates with the Republican Party.17 In addition, according to the Wall Street Journal, during her previous employment with a Republican leader in House of Representatives, Mrs. Thomas "spearheaded a leadership effort to gather embarrassing information about the Clinton-Gore administration."18 Mrs. Thomas told reporters in December 2000 that she and Justice Thomas never19 or "rarely"20 discuss their work lives with each other. Justice Thomas was nominated to the Supreme Court by George W. Bush's father, whose administration then fought hard to get him confirmed in one of the most divisive Supreme Court appointment controversies in history.
    The above is, ironically, from the Georgetown Journal of Legal Ethics.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Variable, Believe it or not, I do know sometimes doing the right thing is hard. We disagree on the definition of "the right thing" to an extreme. Please explain to me how we are doing the right thing. The only thing we have to sell right now is a message of violence. I've heard nothing else from the current administration. Funny, coming from a prez who claims to be a Christian. He can't even sell the beauty of his own religion to the world, because he doesn't practice what he preaches.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Having a family member employed by a party to a suit doesn't necessarily indicate a financial interest in the case. For example:
    I agree, nor is it clear and convincing evidence that she has no financial interest in the outcome, but that is not the only criteria. She has no bias on behalf of her husband's employer? What about the likelihood of independant knowledge of the facts? There's enough grey to make me think she should back out. I however, don't think it's going to be close enough that one vote will matter, but who knows these days. Based on the criteria you supplied I also think rhenquist should have stepped aside in the Microsoft matter. But that's spilled milk, and so is this effectively.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    And thanks for the canine condolences. Alex the wonder dog went to the great beyond at 14. RIP, my sweet mutt.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Jim, You stated:
    As for the trial, I still believe them guilty, and would like to see a re-trial.
    You immediately quoted an article that stated:
    The case was built on hundreds of pages of transcripts of wiretapped phone calls and faxes, records of money moving through accounts, documents seized from the defendants' homes and offices, and their own words on video. At times, the participants appeared to speak glowingly of the Palestinian "martyrs" who carried out suicide attacks.
    The emphasis in bold on the above quote was yours, not mine. That is what I called McCarthyism. I was not trying to suppress your free speech. I merely stated that your emphasis reeked of McCarthyism. You zeroed in on their unpopular speech.
    macromaniac, step away from the ppj, put it down and step away.
    Sorry Sailor, I couldn't help it.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    She has no bias on behalf of her husband's employer?
    Well, if we look at bias as a reason for recusal instead of financial interest, my question about Scalia is back in play. If one suggests that Ginsburg should recuse, but Scalia shouldn't, then that assumes that the wife of an employee is biased but an alumnus and former valedictorian is not. That seems arbitrary.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Dadler, my condolences on Alex, and thanks to the rest of you for sharing your similar experiences. Mike D, I'm so glad you are done with that trial so we can talk again (for everyone else reading this, since I practice in that court we decided to avoid even the appearance of impropriety during his trial by not talking. TalkLeft is glad to have its webmaster back.)

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    mac - My point remains the same. How is it McCarthyism to express disapproval of their actions when I do not try to suppress their rights? You, on the other hand, are trying to do exactly that. Suppress my free speech by making a false claim that it is McCarthyism. Typical Left wing position. Free speech for those who agree with'em. You need to refine your logic.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    You, on the other hand, are trying to do exactly that. Suppress my free speech by making a false claim that it is McCarthyism.
    If calling something "McCarthyism" is an act of suppression, then "suppression" doesn't mean what I think it does. And if posting on somebody else's blog is an act of "free speech", we'll have to make TL un-ban Paul in LA, and Doctor Ace, and all the rest...

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Mike D. You do have my sympathies. How could you afford to spend a month in court? I'm supposed to be called for jury duty next month. Care to sit in for me? It's the Malibu court so there may be some interesting people there. For me, I've got a business to run. Dadler, sorry to hear of your dog. My Great Dane Tucker is snoring right here by my desk as I type. I dread the day... Sailor, I was going to guess soccerdad.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Jim, You believe them guilty based on their unpopular speech! You specifically zeroed in on their unpopular speech and claim that they are guilty of terrorism even though 2 of them were acquitted of all charges. You didn't focus in on any other evidence. That was a McCarthy tactic. I honestly don't see how in the world this even comes close to "suppressing" your speech. I may be dismissing your accusations as McCarthyism, but I am not suppressing your comments. The following is the definition of suppression:
    the act of withholding or withdrawing some book or writing from publication or circulation
    I have not withheld or withdrawn any of your comments.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Sarc, Thanks for the thoughts. My wife, if were a perfect world, would get a pair of Dane puppies. We'll see what happens.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Look at the christmas present this poor lady got.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#63)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    kdog, There's a pun to made on "war on Christmas", but I can't quite string it together.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Roy..the best I can come up with is "War FOR Christmas"

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Believe me, affording jury duty is hard, especially when your poor as a church mouse like I am. But Judge Matsch did a really nice thing-- normally, the jury is paid in one lump sum at the end of the trial. He made it weekly, much to the chagrin of the accounting department I'm sure. But at least I had cash to pay for parking and buy lunch with, even though the loss of wages has put me a month behind on my house payment. Jury pay equates to just above minimum wage. It's definitely not an easy life for a whole month. Most of the jurors were salaried employees at their jobs, so they got paid anyway. But several of us are hourly, so we had to live on that jury pay. It's definitely hard to deal with when one party in the case does $4 billion in revenue every year and the other does $20 million, but the people deciding the case have to choose between paying the power bill and paying the rent.