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Bringing Back the Berlin Wall

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 04:40:07 AM EST
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I wonder what former President Ronald Reagan, so famous for his "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" statement at the Berlin wall, would think of his fellow Republicans in Congress last night passing a border bill that will result in five fences being built along 698 miles of the Mexico -United States border in an effort to block illegal immigration and drugs from entering the U.S.

The vote on the amendment was a victory for conservatives who had long sought to build such a fences along the Mexican border. But the vote was sharply assailed by Democrats, who compared the fences to the Berlin Wall in Germany. Twelve Republicans also voted against the amendment.

This is a bill with the potential to split the Republicans into warring factions.

The unusual revolt highlighted the schism within the Republican Party over the volatile issue of immigration. Business leaders, traditional allies of the party, have lobbied fiercely against the bill, which contains strict employment verification requirements that many executives view as a burden

Let's look at the other welcoming, peaceful provisions of the bill.

The bill would require mandatory detention of many immigrants, stiffen the penalties for employers who hire them and broaden the immigrant-smuggling statute to include employees of social service agencies and church groups who offer services to undocumented workers.

It would not create the temporary guest worker program that President Bush has urged to legalize the status of the 11 million illegal immigrants believed to be living in this country.

Here's our pal Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI):

Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., Republican of Wisconsin, sharply criticized those expressing support for what many conservatives describe as an amnesty for illegal immigrants.

"This bill doesn't give amnesty to illegal aliens and it shouldn't because that would reward someone for breaking our laws," said Mr. Sensenbrenner, who had introduced the border security bill.

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    Bringing Back the Berlin Wall | 20 comments (20 topical)
    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#1)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    The difference is between keeping people in, and keeping them out. Big difference, actually. Huge.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    DUH ! A wall to keep out undesirables ????????? This is supposed to be the 21 st century, civilisation is supposed to be more enlightened and understanding ? We used to laugh at the Chinese and THEIR wall, LOL, and now the U.S. is resorting to the same thing thousands of years later ???????????????????? WOW ! we really have come a long way haven't we ?

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    Interesting question... What do those who oppose imprisoning the innocent usually say about people who lock their doors at night?

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#4)
    by dead dancer on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    How many illegals will it take to build the fence? Maybe I could get some of those tax dollars to repair the fence around my backyard. Wouldn't want any illegals having access to my patio! F'n wonderful. These idiots get paid to come up with this sh**.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#5)
    by SeeEmDee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    You'll know it's past time to leave when they start making noises about a fence on the Canuck border, too. Oh jeez, somebody is.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#6)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    The evil of the Berlin wall wasn’t that it kept out East Berliners, but that it was built by their unrepresentative government to keep them in (among other less passive means). The comparison is insulting.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    You could build a wall five miles high...you are just wasting money. It won't stop the tide of immigrants or drugs one bit.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:04 PM EST
    it was built by their unrepresentative government to keep them in (among other less passive means). The comparison is insulting. More insulting is the fact that now instead of walls to keep them in the fold they have only to use propaganda and fear.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:05 PM EST
    No wall's needed. Just arrest a couple restuarant owners in SF and it'll cease.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    here's a quiz for TL: 1) With the Berlin Wall, was the design to keep people in East Berlin, or stop them from entering? 2) With the US border wall, is the design to stop people from coming in, or going out? 3) With the Berlin issue, when east berliners reached the west, were they allowed to stay, or deported? 4) Are illegal aliens entering from Mexico supposed to be deported? These are easy questions, and TL should be able to answer them. I expect that bozo comparisons with Reagan's speech will end if the questions are honestly answered

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    Disgusting. We help create a system that sucks up the world's capital AND natural resources and then work hard to keep the rest of the world from coming here to live.
    The evil of the Berlin wall wasn’t that it kept out East Berliners, but that it was built by their unrepresentative government to keep them in (among other less passive means). The comparison is insulting.
    Wow. That isn't very libertarian of you. Your comment displays a real trust in our government to dole out freedom. Good thing the fences and law enforcement buildup at the border can only be used to keep people out and could never feasibly be used to keep people in.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#12)
    by Steven Sanderson on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    Five anti-immigrant fences/walls to be built along our border with Mexico , hmmm...seems to be a set-up for another no-bid, open-ended contract tailored for a Halliburton subsidiary using undocumented workers who'll be paid slave wages and kept in shipping container prison camps.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    I have no issue with building the wall and I bet Reagan would be pissed he did not think of it. I would like to see the wall so that the corporations taking advantage of the immigrants crossing illegally have to pay decent wages to those here legally or illegally. I cannot believe there is a large portion of politicians that want to stop the flow because it would have a devastating impact on many businesses and drive the cost of strawberries and chicken through the roof.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#14)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    Can we name it the Maginot fence? Screen door on a submarine. Hope lies with mexicans electing the former mayor of Mexico City, who may wrest control of the country's vast wealth from the elite, who wish to follow the US privatization of basic services policy. Maybe if Mexico ends up more like Venezuela, the only immigrants coming in will be driving stolen mercedes and living in Duke Cunningham's mansion. But who will mow their lawns? Oh the humanity.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    I wonder what former President Ronald Reagan, so famous for his "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" statement at the Berlin wall, would think of his fellow Republicans in Congress last night passing a border bill How ironic, as it was Reagan who let millions of illegal aliens come to the U.S. He gave an amnesty, which was supposed to a) be the last amnesty and b) have strong enforcement. Of course, it wasn't the last amnesty, the enforcement provisions were gutted or ignored, and Reagan deeply regretted signing it. Now, we can learn from his mistake by not letting corrupt corporations pass another amnesty with the assistance of useful idiots who think they're helping poor people by allowing them to flood the U.S. illegally. We used to laugh at the Chinese and THEIR wall The only reason China still exists is because of that wall. While there might have been anti-wall forces in China in centuries past, I'm sure modern-day Chinese are grateful they were ignored.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#16)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    The only reason China still exists is because of that wall.
    Really? The only reason? Wow.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:07 PM EST
    The only reason China still exists is because of that wall.
    That actually has some truth to it, but the comparison isn't valid. If the Mexican Army were to launch a conventional ground assault on the United States, no fence (or Chinese Wall) would be a barrier to today's mechanized infantry (and the idea is absurd). The purpose of this fence isn't analogous to the Great Wall of China. However, it is analogous to the Berlin Wall - but the economics are quite different. Instead of a strategic detente, we're working unilaterally to enrich ourselves at the expense of the rest of the world. Even second world allies like Mexico.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:07 PM EST
    Jlvngstn - Heart be still. We agree.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#19)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:07 PM EST
    I guess I missed the part where a wall acts as a one-way-valve... Those who lock their doors at night lock themselves in as much as they lock others out.

    Re: Bringing Back the Berlin Wall (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 08:06:52 AM EST
    Wikipedia article
    The first major wall was built during the reign of the First Emperor, the main emperor of the short-lived Qin dynasty. This wall was not constructed as a single endeavor, but by joining several regional walls built by the Warring States. It was located much further north than the current Great Wall with its eastern end all the way to modern day North Korea, and very little remains of it.
    There was a program on TGWOC on the Discovery channel which alleged that the emperor put a severe strain on China's economy by devoting so many resources to this project, but then, Imperial China lacked the services of Halliburton and the other wonders of our capitalist age ;)

    Bringing Back the Berlin Wall | 20 comments (20 topical)