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Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in Condoms

By TChris, Section Innocence Cases
Posted on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 10:48:19 AM EST
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by TChris

Bryn Mawr College student Janet Lee invented an unusual method of stress relief. She filled condoms with flour, then squeezed them. Flying can be stressful, so she brought three flour-filled condoms with her to carry on a flight. This turned out to be an unfortunate idea, as airport screeners searched her luggage and found the condoms, which they assumed to be filled with cocaine -- an assumption Philadelphia police claim was confirmed by field tests. Lee spent three weeks behind bars on drug trafficking charges before the error was discovered.

How did flour test positive for opium, cocaine, and another drug, when later lab tests confirmed that the white powdery substance was exactly what it appeared to be: flour? The city has refused to release records that might reveal what went wrong.

Lee's lawyers, former prosecutors David Oh and Jeremy Ibrahim, say that either the field test was faulty or someone fixed the results.

Lee filed suit this week against the city for her wrongful arrest.

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    Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in Condoms | 63 comments (63 topical)
    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:12:17 AM EST
    !Sarcasm Alert! I have no sympathy for this woman. We must make an example of her to keep our children safe. Three weeks in a cage is nothing compared to what will happen if this flour in a condom thing catches on with the youth. On a serious note...you'd think the authorities would be more concerned about anthrax or toxic chemicals...why did they automatically assume it was blow?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:21:06 AM EST
    kdog, This is grounds for an out and out WOC: War on Condoms. They're everywhere for gawds sake, and if we don't take the fight to them next thing you know they'll be exploding in our cities, our neighborhoods, even [gasp!] under our beds!

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:31:41 AM EST
    Good stuff edger...good stuff.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#4)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:42:02 AM EST
    'Scuse me? She totes around condoms filled with flour? Doesn't everybody? Am I the only one here who smells the barnyard?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:42:42 AM EST
    This young woman knew what she was evoking. She is hurting the public just as the young man who recently fessed up he was lieing about being investigated by feds.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:43:04 AM EST
    Not a word from anyone about how stupid this woman is? Who (in this day & age) would even consider carrying powder of any kind through any sort of security? She should do time for bing an idiot if nothing else!

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#7)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:45:48 AM EST
    Flying can be stressful, so she brought three flour-filled condoms with her to carry on a flight.
    In her checked luggage?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:52:26 AM EST
    QIB - Better check again...
    Flying can be stressful, so she brought three flour-filled condoms with her to carry on a flight
    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#9)
    by Punchy on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:53:46 AM EST
    There must have been a misprint b/c the article mentions "checked luggage" but then says "shortly before the flight". They must have meant carry-on. I too, second the stupidity factor. Condoms with flour? Has she any idea what that looks to be? What would have happened it one had burst near the gate or while in the ticket line? Hmmm...white powder in an airport? I wonder what color of skin this girl is. If she's a minority, I smell trouble for the defendants...

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 11:59:25 AM EST
    Three weeks for flour? Damn. That better have been one amazing cake...

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 12:09:34 PM EST
    I was going to make some snarky comment about how Americans need to be informed about how criminals act so they can be sure not to accidentally do anything that is at all similar to what a criminal would do (like run down the aisle of an airplane, or carry white powder in a bag) because seeming like a criminal is as good as being one, but I see several of your helpful commentors have beaten me to it. Instead, a musing: The same people who believe that simply carrying white powder onto a plane means you 'deserve' to be in jail would probably have a fit if you tried to teach schoolkids how drugs are smuggled. The hypocrisy should be evident.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 12:11:38 PM EST
    OK, it was stupid of her, but it was also a clear and excessive over-reaction on the part of the authorities. Obviously the results of the field test were probably ignored (since I'm pretty sure they were actually negative), and the cops just didn't want to be embarassed. Happens more often that you would like to know. I say, sue their pants off. I hope she gets $10m or so from the City and everyone involved. Fortunately, being stupid is not a crime...if it were there would be more people in jail than on the streets. However, taking someone's freedom without a just cause is supposed to illegal, and, (despite the current government's efforts to make it so) lest we forget, also a violation of the Constitution. You remember the Constitution...right. That little, as your AG put it, "quaint document."

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 12:16:53 PM EST
    I am afraid the President is monitoring us. ;) Has he been taking reading classes? Or writing?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 12:26:26 PM EST
    kdog: Good stuff edger...good stuff. Look kdog - we really do need a WOC. I mean there are just so many variables to this entire issue that if we don't take the fight to them we're all lost. The barbarians are at the gates...we all know that ...don't we? Don't we??? ;-)

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#15)
    by roy on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 12:42:05 PM EST
    If the cops lied about or screwed with the field test, then I hope she gets a dumptruck full of cash. Tax free. With "I'm sorry" hand-written on each bill. And I hope somebody charges the cops with aggravated kidnapping. But that doesn't seem likely. What did the cops have to gain? Nobody would fault them for stopping the girl and testing the stuff in the condoms, even if the tests were negative. And drug charges are so common that the cops would have known that lab tests would be done and she'd be exonerated, meaning they probably knew that lying would be more harmful than not lying. Plus, why would they claim that the condoms contained an unusual mix of drugs instead of just one? What's more likely, that two people made up an obviously easily disproven lie for no apparent gain, or that a piece of technology failed? Yeah, she told them it was flour. And they did something to check her story: sent the stuff to a lab. It's worrisome that it took 3 weeks to get those results, but she's suing over the arrest and not the later investigation. The lawsuit will force open some records. Maybe these particular cops liked to add food coloring to their drug test kits, or were just bullies. But for now this looks like an unfortunate, but totally understandable, mistake. Maybe the test is so flawed, or was so badly executed, that the girl should be compensated. Depends on technical details we don't have. (Assuming the gov has any business whatsoever restricting cocaine or opium -- a topic for an open thread)

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 01:10:49 PM EST
    Look kdog - we really do need a WOC
    Don't forget the sister WOFABG...War on Flour and Assorted Baking Goods...equally as important to our continued existence.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#17)
    by Patrick on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 01:22:00 PM EST
    Roy well said and I agree, with the exception that if it was a mistake, the cops shouldn't get arrested for kidnapping.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 01:34:20 PM EST
    Kdog, Not the Pillsbury DoughBoy? Don't tell me HE's a terrist too.. Gawd, They are everywhere aren't they?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#19)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 01:40:05 PM EST
    Follow the link, PPJ. Paragraph 5:
    Airport screeners found the condoms filled with white powder in Lee's checked luggage shortly before she was to board a plane to Los Angeles to visit her family.


    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 01:54:42 PM EST
    Ok. That was just stupid. Who does that? Who puts flour in condoms to squeeze for stress relief? I smell a rat with the 'field test is positive for cocaine' thing.....but if you ask me, this girl got what she deserved. That was just plain dumb. She was testing someone and she was arrested. Should have stopped there and she should have been released. But, you know, I don't have any sympathy for her. None. Zip. Nada.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 01:54:57 PM EST
    Janet Lee packed her bags for a Christmas trip home two years ago, her luggage contained three condoms filled with flour — a stress-relief contraption that she and some friends made as part of a dorm project. Lee said. "I'm amazed at how naive I was." Get a grip BB. The woman did nothing wrong or stupid.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#22)
    by Patrick on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:07:38 PM EST
    She may have done nothing wrong, but it certainly wasn't a bright idea by any stretch of the imagination. I'd like to see some research about how common this remedy is. A search of google turns up flour filled condoms thrown at Tony Blair's house, but I couldn't find any reference to using them for stress relief. What I do know is, sometimes after there have been changes such as the airline screening changes, people who want to smuggle illegal items on public transportation will make dry runs to see if their method is detected. Since it was a collge dorm project, is there any information that would back that up? Such as others who participated in the project? That would go a long way towards convincing me. As to the field testing and lab testing the substances, in California the field test, not infallible, is used for probable cause. The confirmatory testing (Done in the lab with GCMS) is used as the proof. Sometimes confirmatory testing is not done until there is trial date, which can be many weeks or months later. 3 weeks is not a long time when getting results back from a state run lab, in my experience. Why did she stay in custody so long? Couldn't she bail?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:08:30 PM EST
    You too JenD, calm down. Fer f**ck's sake. I roll my own cigs and commonly carry around rolling papers. Does this make me stupid or justify abuse I might receive from some over zealous cop for drug paraphernalia? No.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#24)
    by jen on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:17:02 PM EST
    BB Why does the right (cons) never hold anybody in power accountable for their actions? Why is it ALWAYS their victim's fault? Whether it's a hispanic guy who looks arab running through an airplane they and no one else heard saying he has a bomb...or a very stupid woman carrying stuffed condoms...let's never blame the 'man' for abusing power.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#25)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:20:33 PM EST
    Not stupid or wrong, but definitely foolish (or "naive" as she admits) to bring them on a plane, even in checked baggage. Although, as the story says, she had been up without sleep for four days finishing her finals for her first semester at Bryn Mawr (a Quaker-affiliated, all-women, top-rated "Seven Sisters" liberal arts college near Philadelphia). The story also says the flour-stuffed condoms were a finals-week dorm "project," as her attorney readily confirmed (sounds very believable for a women's college dorm activity). But I don't see where in the story, or otherwise, it says the TSA or Philly cops "assumed" anything. They were (reasonbly) suspicious, and did a field test. The test was positive (or so they say; if they're lying, that's another story). If it's true that the field test was positive, why wouldn't there be probable cause to arrest her? The only part I don't get is why she was in jail 3 weeks, and why it took Catholic Social Services and an expedited re-test by the (generally intransigent and obtuse) Philly DA's office at the behest of her attorney, to get her out -- where was the Bryn Mawr Dean's Office the next day? But as for civil rights violations, unless I'm missing something, there were none unless the claim of a positive field test is b/s.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#26)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:26:01 PM EST
    Uh, people shouldn't be bothered by the fact that she's a stupid idiot and/or terrorist and knew what she was doing so much as that... the cops faked the test results!

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#27)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:29:57 PM EST
    Doesn't her explanation set off anybody's b.s. alarm?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:35:03 PM EST
    Jen... That's just not true. When it's 'proven' that power was abused... there is hell to pay. People are fired...fined..etc. I have no issue with that. But what happened to "innocent until proven guilty".... that all you libs continually harp on? Is that only for your side? See, libs automatically jump on athority, many times before all the facts are even in... They just seem to be so quick to point fingers but never go back to the person that did the 'wrong' thing in the first place. I (and most resonable people) tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the poor guy that has to make that split second decsion because some airhead decides he's going to run and not obey orders to stop... but you all get behind some other dumb ass who tries to smuggle powder stuffed in condoms aboard an airplane.... when anyone who isn't living in a cave knows that anything like that is very much frowned upon thses days! But...let's not blame her... no ...she should get millions for being extremely stupid... right? It's the American (liberal) way isn't it?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#29)
    by Patrick on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:36:34 PM EST
    Ahh Yes, Scar like T-Chris is omnipotent. Can you prove is was falsified? I thought not.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#30)
    by jen on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:53:19 PM EST
    Uhm... Quaker... it was for stress relief but not... uhm... this is a family blog, right?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#31)
    by jen on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:57:03 PM EST
    BB, But the girl didn't do anything wrong. SHE wasn't innocent till proven guilty still isn't in your book.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 02:59:07 PM EST
    Ahh Yes, Scar like T-Chris is omnipotent.
    Patrick, Show me where TChris himself accused the police of falsifying the results. TChris quoting Lee's attorneys doesn't count. And this is a valid gripe:
    The city has refused to release records that might reveal what went wrong.
    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#33)
    by Sailor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 03:02:41 PM EST
    Why does the left (libs) never hold anybody accountable for their actions?
    She didn't commit a crime.
    this girl got what she deserved.
    She didn't commit a crime.
    people who want to smuggle illegal items on public transportation will make dry runs to see if their method is detected.
    Did she have drugs on her? No. She didn't commit a crime.
    Why did she stay in custody so long? Couldn't she bail?
    .5 MILLION $$$$$$! I know very few who could come up w/ that bail, or could lose $50k w/ a bondsman. Re the 3 condoms; 1 for each hand and 1 for ... uhhh, kegel exercises. I know being on the other end of kegels relaxes me;-)

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 03:05:13 PM EST
    Why did she stay in custody so long? Couldn't she bail?
    From TChris' link to the story:
    She was arrested on Dec. 21, 2003, and was held on $500,000 bail
    Perhaps she and her family couldn't afford it.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#35)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 03:26:15 PM EST
    She put them in her luggage because you can't get condoms or flour in CA?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#36)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 03:26:53 PM EST
    Aw, who the heck knows. Her story just doesn't ring true for me, that's all.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 03:29:50 PM EST
    I don't have any sympathy for her. None. Zip. Nada.
    You obviously have never spent three weeks in a cage...or you would have some sympathy.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#38)
    by Sailor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 03:37:39 PM EST
    here's a link to the article the TC article was based on. Turns out she isn't white. But I'm sure that had nothing to do with it. [/sarcasm] from the article:
    Inmates saw the high volume of visitors and figured she was important. Again, she did not discourage the notion. She did not tell her cell mates that the visitors were actually volunteers from Catholic churches in Philadelphia who had taken up her cause.

    The volunteers helped her hire Oh.

    "I believed her story because things just didn't add up," Oh said. For one thing, Oh said, the field tests were odd because they detected the presence of not one drug but three.

    "People don't mix drugs like that," Oh said.

    First, Oh contacted Bryn Mawr and confirmed that Lee's dorm mates had, in fact, made the condoms together during a pre-exam session they call a "hall tea."

    Then, Oh said, he called Assistant District Attorney Charles Ehrlich, who agreed to expedite laboratory tests. Ehrlich also agreed to help seek reduced bail, Oh said. A day after the new test came back and confirmed that the substance was flour, Lee was released.
    So she had $$ and friends who cared. If not for that then the cops' lies, (and yes, Patrick, cops lie) she probably would have pled to some charge via advice from a doubtful and overworked public defender after spending months in prison. In my experience, cops and DAs always pile on charges and lie about evidence, just so you will plea because you can't take the chance on a jury. I think she was lucky the crime lab didn't lie just to help convict her. And my fav part:
    Ellen Green-Ceisler, who directed the Police Department's Office of Integrity and Accountability from 1997 to 2005, called Lee's case highly unusual. Field tests are rarely wrong.
    That is just so much BS it's hard to believe anyone but Scotty McLellean would say it. Aside to Patrick; Please note that I have managed to offend you and TChris in the same post. I have listed facts and my opinions derived from them, formed from my experiences. Your experiences are different and you have formed different opinions.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#39)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 04:07:00 PM EST
    Thanks for that link, Sailor. That story fills in a lot of the blanks.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#40)
    by roy on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 04:12:18 PM EST
    There's a more detailed article here. Highlights: the flour tested positive as drugs multiple times. There's a muddle of what drugs were detected when -- maybe the cops had a clear timeline, but I don't. Lee is Asian, and a friendly prison guard told her the whole thing was racial. Make of that what you will; I maintain my hunch that the cops made an innocent mistake or some funky chemistry threw off the tests. Patrick,
    ...if it was a mistake, the cops shouldn't get arrested for kidnapping.
    My "aggravated kidnapping" comment was (hopefully obviously) hyperbole as applied to this incident. But if a cop intentionally fabricates evidence -- not just makes a mistake -- in order to arrest somebody who is not really suspected of a crime, that cop is not acting in his official capacity. He's a criminal who happens to have a badge and a gun. Criminal charges against the cops should be on the table when that happens. BB,
    Why does the left (libs) never hold anybody accountable for their actions? Why is it ALWAYS someone else's fault?
    Which is the more serious mistake: flying with a legal substance in a manner reminiscent of something illegal, or failing to distinguish between flour and opium?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#41)
    by roy on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 04:13:36 PM EST
    Whoops, didn't see Sailor's post. My "more detailed" article is the same as he linked to.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 04:18:23 PM EST
    Seems par for the course for Philly cops. :( Does the PA Highway Patrol there still wear the Black Leather SS-knockoff uniforms they used to?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#43)
    by Sailor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 04:39:10 PM EST
    Hey Roy, timing is everything;-) But seriously folks, whether we agree or disagree, instead of calcifying ones opinion perhaps do a bit of research first.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#44)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 06:54:17 PM EST
    I think it takes me about 10 seconds to determine if a white powder is flour or coke. Just a pinch between the lip and gums. Come on.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#45)
    by Sailor on Thu Dec 29, 2005 at 06:58:49 PM EST
    Highlights: the flour tested positive as drugs multiple times.
    I didn't see that in the article. I just saw that she kept being charged with more drugs.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 07:41:27 AM EST
    Charlie... Just where exactly in the criminal code is it written that you can do time for bein' a moron, ya mutt? I was being sarcastic.... get a clue will ya. Also, being new here, you'll find you'll get a lot more traction if you refrain from childish name calling. You don't know me. BTW - you seem very fond of using the word "shmendrik".... very cute. Try using it a little more won't ya?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 07:49:38 AM EST
    Sailor... If I carried a bottle of liquid with a rag stuffed in it in my luggage... I wouldn't be "committing a crime" but it would still be a very stupid thing to do and would cause many people to go through a lot of turmoil to find out what it was I did have and if I did committ a crime.... yes? Common sense dictates (to those with common sense anyway) that if you intend to cause havoc even if you do it legally... chances are you might suffer some consequences.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#48)
    by Patrick on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 08:21:06 AM EST
    Show me where TChris himself accused the police of falsifying the results.
    Do you really need me to do that research? I mean it's on this site numerous times. Go search it for yourself. Unless of course your only talking about this particular thread, then your assertion holds up.
    And this is a valid gripe: The city has refused to release records that might reveal what went wrong.
    No it's not. We do not, as a matter of law, release police reports that are the subject of litigation or criminal charges. It's not proof of a coverup.
    So she had $$ and friends who cared. If not for that then the cops' lies, (and yes, Patrick, cops lie)
    Unfortunately, some due, but it's the exception not the rule in my world. Besides, do you have some proof they lied? Or even something upon which it would be reasonable to base such an assumption in this case?
    In my experience, cops and DAs always pile on charges and lie about evidence,
    What exactly is your experience. Mine happens to be quite the opposite. Always means always right?

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 08:44:09 AM EST
    Unless of course your only talking about this particular thread, then your assertion holds up.
    I was referring to this thread.
    Do you really need me to do that research? I mean it's on this site numerous times.
    No. I am aware of your personal gripe with TChris's posts on TL. You are obviously a member of the law enforcement community and are just as biased in your opinion about the integrity of law enforcement as TChris is about the lack of integrity in law enforcement.
    No it's not. We do not, as a matter of law, release police reports that are the subject of litigation or criminal charges. It's not proof of a coverup.
    I never mentioned that not releasing the records was proof of a coverup. I said it was a valid gripe. From the article:
    Many records in the case remain confidential, inaccessible even to Lee's lawyers.
    Why are these records inaccessible to Lee's lawyers? They are part of the ongoing litigation and should have access to these records.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#50)
    by Patrick on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:16:28 AM EST
    I never mentioned that not releasing the records was proof of a coverup. I said it was a valid gripe.
    And I disagree. There are laws which cover and govern the release of police reports. If they aren't entitled to them it's for a legally valid reason, otherwise the courts would order their release.
    No. I am aware of your personal gripe with TChris's posts on TL.
    So the why the question if you're aware? Oh I see, my bias is bad, T-Chris's is OK. Is that it? Don't worry, being wrong doesn't make you a bad person

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:35:47 AM EST
    And I disagree. There are laws which cover and govern the release of police reports. If they aren't entitled to them it's for a legally valid reason, otherwise the courts would order their release.
    And you are assuming that legal council for Lee is not entitled to city records regarding her case. Sort of like others who have posted here have assumed that the police have covered up the error in the field test.
    So the why the question if you're aware? Oh I see, my bias is bad, T-Chris's is OK. Is that it?
    I never said, or hinted, in any way, that TChris's bias is good or bad. I was merely pointing out that you are just as biased based on your past posts in this blog.
    Don't worry, being wrong doesn't make you a bad person
    Patrick, don't worry, you putting words in my mouth doesn't make you a bad cop.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:53:30 AM EST
    Patrick, One other item you should be aware of. In the state of PA, which is where this occurred,
    http://www.post-gazette.com/firstamendment/20020220publicrecordfreeholdp9.asp
    police investigative reports are considered public record.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:54:38 AM EST
    Sorry TL... I messed up the link in my previous post. Patrick, click here.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:57:49 AM EST
    Oops... My bad Patrick... Police investigative reports are not covered under the Right to Know Act. See, I can admit when I am actually wrong

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#55)
    by Patrick on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:08:39 PM EST
    I never said, or hinted, in any way, that TChris's bias is good or bad. I was merely pointing out that you are just as biased based on your past posts in this blog.
    Why else bring it up in the context of defending T-Chris? I'm sure he's capable of defending himself and his positions, even if he hasn't in past threads. As for whether my bias is equal but opposite of t-chris, I have to say that is entirely not the case. I would think I'm in a better position to comment on the ethics of law enforcement than he is, and you would have to believe cops never did anything wrong to be the polar opposite of t-chris. I apologize for snarky comment about it not making you a bad person. I have in the past read too much into somone's point and taken offense.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 03:37:16 PM EST
    Yep. Sounds to me like she set them up. Good for her. I hope she sues everyone involved in her arrest individually and that those involved lose their jobs and are cast out amongst the jobless impoverished masses to live amongst those whose lives have been destroyed by depression, drug addiction, and overzealous prosecution of drug possession. Everyone here that has read my comments knows that I'm pretty much the only Progressive here that isn't in favor of legalizing recreational drugs. I'm not blind, however, to the insane degree of misery and oppression that our current government's attitudes and our private Corporatocracy inflicts on the addicted and the depressed poor.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#57)
    by Sailor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 03:58:29 PM EST
    No it's not. We do not, as a matter of law, release police reports that are the subject of litigation or criminal charges.
    In my state they are part of the 'Sunshine Laws', with redactions for undercover IDs and similar things. Any citizen or reporter is (nominally) allowed to see police reports and test results. We paid for them, they belong to us. Patrick, you are correct that I shouldn't have used the superlative 'always'. (As a scientist I should know that term never applies;-) Tho as a matter of policy, most DAs consistently pile on charges hoping to make a person plead. In my case, how else would one be able to plead to 'disturbing the peace' when the initial charge included violating the Fed 1938 Firearms Act, assault on a cop and resisting arrest. I'll give you a hint; it wasn't because I was guilty of any of those charges, it was because I wouldn't plead out at arraignment and insisted on a jury trial and could afford a lawyer. I do assume they lied in this case because they kept upping the number of drugs found over time (which oddly enough seemed to correspond with each court appearance) ... until a lab did the test. And the lab only expedited the test bgecause a high priced attorney could call the DA and say 'hey, look at this.'

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimcee on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 06:32:22 PM EST
    So much for the expensive private school thingee being better than the 'rest' argument. Sounds more to me like either a prank gone bad or someone looking for a term paper contorversy kind of thing. Either way, hire this bone stupid girl at you own peril. Just because her family is rich doesn't make her smart. Just ask the Hiltons.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#59)
    by Sailor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 07:00:02 PM EST
    jeebus jimcee, try to follow the links, research your own and make an actual, factual point or STFU.

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 07:07:47 PM EST
    et al - Sorry. I just can't resist this any longer... I wonder if the flour was Martha White, "Hot Rise".........

    Re: Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in (none / 0) (#61)
    by scooterjoe on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 08:47:27 AM EST
       I don't have any sympathy for her. None. Zip. Nada.

    You obviously have never spent three weeks in a cage...or you would have some sympathy.

    I have and I don't.

    settled for $180k (none / 0) (#62)
    by aw on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 09:20:54 AM EST
    link

    nice follow up (none / 0) (#63)
    by Sailor on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 11:01:06 AM EST
    thanks aw!

    Woman Sues After Arrest For Carrying Flour in Condoms | 63 comments (63 topical)