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Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 12:46:03 PM EST
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Murray Waas tracks down some information on David Thibault, the editor in chief of Cybercast News, which ran the swift-boat style article criticizing Jack Murtha. (See Howard Kurtz in the Washington Post for more details on the Murtha attack.)

Murray finds that Thibault was a "senior producer for a televised news magazine" broadcast and sponsored by the Republican National Committee. Murray's point:

Thibault's background, it seems to me, and those engaging in the Swiftboating of Murtha would seem to be relevant to any news story on this issue, I would think. And so would some independent examination by the Post as to whether there is even any veracity to the charges.

HuffPo reports the Bush Administration asked "high ranking military leaders" to attack Murtha. Murtha responds to the attacks on HuffPo. Some soldiers weigh in agreeing with Murtha.

Markos weighs in. Murtha will be on 60 Minutes tomorrow night.

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    Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds | 30 comments (30 topical)
    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 01:38:32 PM EST
    Colonel/Congressman Murtha is a true patriot and genuine American hero, both for his service as a Marine in Vietnam and throughout the Cold War and for for his candor and courage as a United States Congressman. American politicians with the integrity to tell the truth about the Bush Administration's idiotic, unlawful war in Iraq are few and far between and we are damn lucky to have him. I speak as a veteran, and as a member of a family with generations of veterans. My great grandfather went to Cuba with Colonel Roosevelt. My grandfather served as a "muleskinner" in WWI, my father was an infantry Sergeant in WWII, my son is currently a Marine Captain stationed in Fallujah and I carried an M-79 grenade launcher as a Marine in Vietnam from 1967 until I was shot during the Tet Offensive in February, 1968. Colonel Murtha, I salute you, Sir. Semper Fidelis, Terry Kindlon, once a Sgt, 2187197, USMC.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 03:37:49 PM EST
    Terry - My Dad and one uncle was in the Marines. Other family members were in the Army. I spent 10 years in naval aviation. I tell you this so, I hope, that when I say that I honor your, and the Congressman's service, you will know that it is not an empty gesture from someone who merely mouths words. I stand in awe of both of you, as I did of my Dad and my uncles. I understand the meaning of, "in harm's way." And I sometimes shudder when I see the TV pundits toss off their buzz words. And that is for both sides in this debate. But reasonable people can differ. Times change and threats changes. And the WOT is as real as WWII and the Cold War. So it is with sadness that I say that you and the Congressman are very wrong. The terrorists know they can't win a conventional war, or even a battle. They depend on the foe giving them a political victory. And, again with sadness, the Congressman, no matter how well intentioned, has said things that has encouraged them. And we both know how important morale is to any military organization. Perhaps it is time for him to withdraw into retirement.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 03:56:31 PM EST
    PPJ: But reasonable people can differ... you and the Congressman are very wrong... time for him to withdraw into retirement. If reasonable people can differ, but TK is wrong and Murtha should retire, then what is the part that reasonable people can differ about? Or maybe you just mean that reasonable people can disagree with you, but they would be wrong to do so. I guess that would make you super-reasonable?

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 04:18:17 PM EST
    Jimetc--We can agree to disagree. Different people with different opinions are the spice of life (or something like that). What I object to (and what you have not done) is people who are suddenly trying to "swift boat" Colonel Murtha. Anybody who does that will have some explaining to do to Chesty Puller and me (and my grandfather, and the rest of the family). s/f tlk

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 04:52:03 PM EST
    punisher - The debate is simple. Should we use a pre-emptive strategy or a defensive strategy? One of the few things I agree with Bush on is that we need to strike first. The ability to project power at a time we think best is one of the few advantages a fixed "country" has against terrorist groups. Waiting as a staionary target, unable to move except to respond is a deadly and failed atrategy.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dadler on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 05:07:14 PM EST
    waiting as a stationary target is what everyone everyday does -- it's called living normal life. or do you want a society in which everyone carries a gun and their are cameras surveilling every square foot of public space? iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, so there was nothing pre-emptive about it. it was a fantasy from the beginning. it's a fantasy now. we're not even winning the public relations war. we can't even speak truth to OURSELVES, much less to power. we're scared and acting like it -- by acting out.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 06:02:36 PM EST
    Since 'pre-emptive strategy' has worked so well, (IOW attack a country that had NO WMDs and was no threat to the US!), I submit we should take another course.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 06:11:36 PM EST
    Gee, I'm sorry, this post was about Murtha and how he is being 'swiftboated.' I can't wait until the wrongwingers on this site suddenly jump on the bandwagon.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimcee on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 06:12:55 PM EST
    The CNS has been a conservative outlet since its inception and at times has gone overboard and this is one of those times. Rep. Murtha's past military record is sacrosanct as far as I am concerned and should not be attacked. That is just wrong. On the other hand his recent comments are fair game and in my opinion wrong-headed and do help the enemy. His interactions with 'Code Pink' and his leaving a Town Hall style meeting in Virginia before anyone was allowed to ask questions leave me a bit cold. For the unintititated, 'Code Pink' has kept a Friday evening vigil outside of the Walter Reed Medical Center heckling wounded vets and thier families as the enter and leave the hospital. If Rep Muthra supports that than I do question his most recents statements.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 06:34:58 PM EST
    jimcee, your attack on Code Pink is unwarranted and I believe dependent on your adherence to RNC talking points and not reality. (If you are truly interested I can supply links.) And does anyone really belive a statement to the press in this country supporting iraqi independence will 'help the enemy' (BTW, who is the enemy?) more than killing innocent women and children in bombing raids? Especially considering that most iraqis' have very few hours of electricity per day and can't afford computers or gas or body armor or food or ... etc.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#11)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 08:25:06 PM EST
    If you're gonna go around the world attacking Countries, make sure ya attack the right ones.
    They did, thats were the oil is, Iran is next

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimcee on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 08:26:13 PM EST
    Sailor, I have no idea where I would get Republican talking points in all honesty. If you would like to supply links I'll be more than happy to follow them. I believe one of the places I saw pictures of the Friday night vigil was Evan Coyne Maloney's site and the WSJ also wrote about them. As far as the linking thing I'm still a moron and Punishers tutorial was lost on me but I'll continue to try in the future. This is what happens when a guy like me who works in the arts uses the internet. I'll see if I can find something for you on the 'Code Pink' thing. Oh, by the way, HI Charlie! It is so nice to hear from you. It's been a long time old chap....

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimcee on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 10:10:04 PM EST
    Sailor, I've googled some 'CodePink' things and I can only find thier own primping stuff or CNS right wing anti-CP stuff. Although there was some rather distirbing meetings with Saddamites by the CPers just before the war. It seems kind of a wash. Either way it is rather distasteful for CP to cause discomfort for wounded soldiers or thier families and that seemed to be the view of those they were 'defending' (the soldiers). Somehow it isn't good form to tell someone they were foolish for getting wounded in an armed conflict and it really can't help the anti-war cause. That the Freepers counter-protested tells me all I need to know and that is that two extremist groups want to play out thier political wet-dreams in front of convalescing soldiers and that is just sad. Murtha should avoid publicly meeting with Code Pink in the same way I would recommend that 'hawkish' Repub's should avoid meeting with the Freepers. Sometimes appearances do matter.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 10:19:29 PM EST
    Sometimes appearances DO matter is right, Jimcee. Too bad we haven't learned that in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib and Falluja and in sending bombs into civilian neighborhoods on the CHANCE there MIGHT be someone dangerous there, and coddling up to certain dictators still when it suits our needs, and on and on. As for Murtha, my only problem is he had his big epiphany WAY TOO LATE.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 07:28:32 AM EST
    Dadler - When Murtha changed his mind is of no real importance. As an elected representative and war veteran he should not have said what he said. The enemy feeds on such statements, as you admitted in this link.
    Trot out Gen. Giap all you want, you're stating the obvious, that protest worked. Sorry it helped "the enemy", but no Vietnamese communist fighting Western colonialism ever did a thing to me.
    Shall we assume this sums up your position in the Murtha matter?

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 10:11:17 AM EST
    Waiting as a stationary target, unable to move except to respond is a deadly and failed strategy. Yes, if you're a target with paper and envelopes, you must beware of the office branch of Al qaeda. [insults deleted, commenter warned.]

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 10:18:38 AM EST
    deleted

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 10:19:22 AM EST
    deleted

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#16)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 10:22:40 AM EST
    deleted

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#20)
    by Kitt on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 11:35:42 AM EST
    The enemy feeds on such statements, as you admitted in this link. What 'enemy' is that, Jim? What does Murtha's Vietnam service have to do with Iraq? How does someone (Bush) who avoided active service during Vietnam by securing a slot in the Nat'l Guard have the balls to confront anything about Murtha, let alone someone who used more deferments (Cheney) than anyone I know? Oh, wait - that's right, what does Iraq have to do with 9/11? I saw polling from Harris yesterday that said:
    "Sizeable Minorities Still Believe Saddam Hussein Had Strong Links to Al Qaeda, Helped Plan 9/11 and Had Weapons of Mass Destruction."
    ....of that:
    > Twenty-two percent (22%) of adults believe that Saddam Hussein "helped plan and support the hijackers who attacked the United States on September 11.".... >"Twenty-four percent (24%) of all adults believe that "several of the hijackers who attacked the United States on September 11 were Iraqis."
    This was my era, Jim; I served during that war. I know how people "got out" of going to Vietnam; I know people who did the exact same thing Bush did and I know how it was done. It was not some big secret. The issue isn't Murtha; the issue is this Iraq fiasco that has been one collossal blunder stacked upon another & supported by those who are either too stupid or too stubborn to 'face the facts.' I live in the heart of 'Bush is our man' country and dissatisfaction is and has been mounting for various reasons, not least of which is the consistent lying of the Bush administration regarding Iraq. Murtha went; Bush didn't. Kerry went; Bush didn't. Woltman went; Bush didn't. Wiscombe went; Bush didn't. Rudd went; Bush didn't......neither did Cheney, neither did - Jim?

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 11:43:28 AM EST
    Jim, I'd rather the enemy feed on such statements than my own country sink into national ignorance and denial because no one has the balls to MAKE such statements. I think that fairly well sums up our antithetical positions on this issue. Are the Texans gonna pick a Bush #1 or what? Dungy deserves a Super Bowl.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 01:20:31 PM EST
    Hey, PPJ, you forgot to point out that Giap was a retired officer when he made those statements you love to parade about here so often. By the same logic that you've used here a number of times to dismiss criticism of the Chimpy Administration by retired civilians and military folks when they've been posted here, he's retired, a has-been, and therefore his views can be ignored in this area. Plus the fact that Commie generals always tell the truth, don't they? ;)

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 06:16:36 PM EST
    Walter Cronkite: the U.S. should get out of Iraq now.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 07:15:44 PM EST
    Kit - If you will read my comment carefully, you will see that it was a response to Dadler, who was defending the comments that Murtha has made after I had commented that I think that such comments encourages and improves the morale of the enemy. Dadler wrote:
    As for Murtha, my only problem is he had his big epiphany WAY TOO LATE.
    My post was to remind him that he had previously agreed with my position, as shown in the quote from the link I provided. i.e. Demotrations against the war had encouraged the enemy in Vietnam. As for "confronting" Murtha.... It is possible, as I noted in my response to TK to honor someone's previous service, but point out that they are now wrong. People change. As for service in general, you should understand that when Bush volunteered for TANG, there were plenty of open slots for pilot training, but a huge waiting list for non-flying duty. The reason was obviously two fold. Flying fighters is hazardous unto itself, and the F-102 was being used in Vietnam. So there was no reason to assume that TANG would not be in Vietnam. Many Air National Guard units went. So your sly use of "securing a slot" is inaccurate and uncalled for. And by bringing up the "he served-he did not" charge, you open up the fact that Clinton did not serve, and he did dodge the draft, securing a Army Reserve appointment which he resigned after he had received a high draft number. Of course it has long being the case that if you agree to joining , and if you then leave, your name automatically goes to the head of the list. I have often wondered how this did not happen in Clinton’s case. I have also often noted that "serving" or not serving" doesn't qualify a person to be, or not be, President. See Lincoln and FDR. Also see Grant. As for Iraq and 9/11, many of us accept the various bits of evidence that Saddam was in contact with the terrorists and provided aid, assistance and training. I have provided many links to show this and doing it again will serve no purpose. You choose to not believe, which is your right. But that doesn't make your belief right. Kitt, it appears that you served and have a background that makes you angry with Bush. I served and have a background that makes me neutral towards Bush except for the war issue. I think it is necessary and agree with his strategy, except that I would have been even more aggressive, especially after winning in '04. I hope we can disagree without being too disagreeable.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 07:50:47 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - What does Commmie Generals telling the truth have to do with anything? He said what he said. Dadler - I agree it is your right to let the enemy be encouraged, you use the word "feast," by such statememts, but once you adopt that position I don't think you can claim to "support the troops." The positions are mutally exclusive. BTW - We rarely get what we "deserve." And thank God for that. I have long understood that while we always demand justice, what we need is mercy.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#26)
    by Dadler on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 08:32:36 PM EST
    Jim, Since I have a brother in this "war", I think it's odd for you to say I don't support the troops. My brother and I were beaten to hell by my stepfather, his father, and I'm fully aware of the psychological implications of that, what I have to watch out for in my own behavior, and, trust me, my fellow free American, I am secure in the knowledge that speaking my mind AS a free American is indeed supporting the troops and my brother. Peace.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 09:59:17 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - What does Commmie Generals telling the truth have to do with anything? In case you missed it, PPJ, Giap was a Commie general, a group not noted for their truthfulness as a general rule.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 09:00:35 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - Giap said what he said. That you think he was lying is a matter of faith. Kitt wrote:
    What enemy?
    Have you missed the siezure of the US embassy in Iran, WTCI, USS Cole, the captured terrorists who admitted they were on their way to bomb LAX, the USS Cole, 9/11... and other attacks? Your defense of Murtha is irrational, and depends on the belief that "good" past behavior means that "bad" current nehavior must be ignored. There is no moral or legal basis for your position. My example of what such actions caused in Vietnam is proof of what such actions caused, and can cause again. Now. If you can provide me some examples of people citicizing his "past" behavior, I will personally go to their blog and chastise them. Not, I admit, an especially effective action, but the best I can do. You have confused me over who did, or did not serve. I take it you were in the service as well as your husband. That the NG, Army Reserve (see Clinton), etc., was used to avoid being drafted is not news. But the fact is that Bush joined a Air National Guard unit that had open slots for pilots and people that wanted to become pilots. That shows there wasn't any need for "political influence." The aircraft being flown, the F-102, was a known "widow maker." About one third of those manufactured crashed for various reasons not connected with pilot error, and that F-102 ANG squadrons were being sent to Vietnam shows that if Bush was avoiding the draft by using PI he certainly picked a strange way of doing it. Indeed, if PI was to be used, why not a safe comfortable slot as a non-flying airforce ground pounder? You see, Kitt, the claims of the Left just don't compute. And, when you continue to bring up the issue of service, you bring Clinton into the debate. The facts about his dodging are well known, as shown in this WP story. As Kerry said in 1992 (about Clinton) it would be best if it was left alone. I again reference Lincoln, FDR and Grant.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#30)
    by Dadler on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 11:22:36 AM EST
    Jim, D.A. is merely using against you the false logic you use all the time. A prisoner claims torture, you say he must be lying because he's a prisoner and our enemy. You can't have it both ways. I mean, you can, but don't claim it's for more logical or trustworthy reasons.

    Re: Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 11:54:55 AM EST
    PPJ would take the unsupported word of Commie general who of course has no reason to rewrite history in his favor and make himself look good. LOL! Giap said what he said. Do you have a specifc quote that can be found in a book, a periodical or something a bit better than newswacx.com? Anyway, that's twice that you've confused tautology with saying something. That you think he was lying is a matter of faith. There you go again: I've never said that he was lying, I merely pointed out the fact that he is a Commie general, and that they tend to lie because that's part of what Commies do. You are willing to believe that the unsubstantiated word of a Commie general should be bought lock, stock and barrel, because, I dunno, your heart tells you what he is saying is true. Actually, unless you can cite a specific page, paragraph, line, etc. from an interview, memoir, etc., there's really no reason to believe that he ever said it at all. Citation, please? That you think he was telling the truth is a matter of faith on your part, more so if you can't locate when and where he said it in the first place.

    Murtha and Cybercast News; Murtha Responds | 30 comments (30 topical)