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The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 02:24:02 PM EST
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The New York Times writes about reservists coming home from Iraq and the difficulty they have adjusting. Sad article.

Military studies already indicate that nearly one-fifth of returning soldiers struggle with depression, anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder. Many veterans suspect the numbers are much higher. Military officials said they were especially concerned about National Guard soldiers and reservists who, according to a recent Army Medical Department study, have higher rates of post-deployment stress.

"I tell my friends in civilian practice that over the next 10 years, you need to be aware what's coming through your door," said Capt. Robert Sidell, an Army psychologist at the United States Military Academy at West Point. "You're going to be seeing a lot of these guys."

The casualties of war. More than 2,2000 dead and how many wounded and psychologically scarred? We'll probably never know.

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    • The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist | 33 comments (33 topical)
    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 03:00:36 PM EST
    TL: ...and how many wounded and psychologically scarred? The injury does not stop with the vet. The returning vet's suffering is shared by her/his children, spouse, and family, and has significant consequences for their mental health as well. From Psychiatry, August 1988: The effect of combat-related posttraumatic stress disorder on the family. Solomon Z. Mental Health Department, Medical Corps, Israel Defense Forces.
    ...guilt feelings, emotional withdrawal and elevated levels of aggression in the returning veteran make it difficult, perhaps even impossible, for him to fully resume his former roles of father, husband and breadwinner. Wives and children of veterans show psychiatric symptoms. Despite these hardships, the families are generally reluctant to seek professional help...
    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#2)
    by Rational on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 03:39:44 PM EST
    So people who obeyed illegal orders to pursue an illegal war and committed murder while relying on the Nuremberg defense of "just obeying orders" to keep them out of jail are feeling guilt. Well good they should feel guilt. It shows that there may be a scintilla of decency left in them. Society should work to inflame that guilt until they recognize their crimes and either do time or find some sort of meaningful atonement to make up for their sins.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 03:47:24 PM EST
    rational: Well good they should feel guilt...Society should work to inflame that guilt until they recognize their crimes... rational, you should be ashamed.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 04:07:38 PM EST
    There was a period, in the late '70s and early '80s, when it seemed that a month would't go by without a Vietman vet going beserk with an assault rifle, somewhere in the country. With this in mind, I wrote a pretty good paper for a '70s film class, several years ago, arguing that Taxi Driver was a film about Vietnam. I entitled it, "Two, Three, Many Travis Bickles." We all need to gird ourselves for the next wave of these unfortunate souls.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#5)
    by Rational on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 04:11:07 PM EST
    Why? When John Walker Lindh ( vet of all mercenary force) was arrested wasn't the fact that he committed murder with out guilt part of the outrage? When the officials of the german regime and junior members were tried by the Nuremberg tribunals wasn't guilt and failure to recognize the need for it one of the issues that so astounded the world? In the truth commissions of South Africa wasn't the acknowledgement of guilt part of the process? So why is it these criminials should be held guilt free for thier crimes? Under the UCMJ, US law and international law obeying an illegal order makes one a criminial. Just the same as a hit man taking orders from a drug lord or Godfather to kill someone. The fact that this is an illegal war is obvious to all but the kool aid drinkers. So called "preventative" war is illegal under the UN Charter and other treaties that the US has signed. Speaking from a basis of western morality ( oxymoron) this massacre doesn't work under the concept of a "Just War" Rule 1 you must be sure that you can win. Obviously this is a violation. One of the next rules is that the war should cause less death and upheaval then not starting the war. Well that is pretty well shot unless you buy into the idea that establishing another fundamentalist Islamic regime ala Iran is an 9improvement. I, unlike the uniformed thugs, have no reason to be ashamed. I have not murdered civilians. I have not destroyed a country. I have not brought shame to my uniform or country.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 04:14:18 PM EST
    Indeed pun. Shame. As far as I'm concerned, we owe all our soldiers an apology for Iraq. These people put their lives on the line, the least the country can do is only ask that of them when it is absolutely necessary. Iraq did not meet that criteria, in my opinion. The govt. that sent them are criminal in my eyes.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 04:19:50 PM EST
    rational: Why? Because you don't know enough (anything?) about most (any?) of the people that you are so quick to condemn. It's comforting, sort of, to know that the wing-nuts don't have a monopoly on cruelty and spite.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimcee on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 05:54:09 PM EST
    Since Rational brought up a film class (why I don't know), I think the best film ever made about the effects of war on those that participated is 'The Best Years of Our Lives'. It was as honest as a film could be about the subject.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimcee on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 05:56:21 PM EST
    My apoligies to Rational I meant my comment to be adressed to Urizon although I do think Rational is a bit cruel with his representation of returning vets.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#10)
    by Rational on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 05:59:54 PM EST
    Some things I do know. 1) This is suppose to be a "professional army" Professionals are suppose to know the law and regulations in their choosen profession and be held responsible when they violate those rules and laws. 2) The isolation of Fallejah and attack, as an example, was a clear violation of the rules of war in reference to treating a civilian population. 3) The innumerable cases of torture and prisoner abuse is immoral and illegal. 4) Granted those that give the orders are guilty but those who blindly obey are equally guilty of the same crimes. If this regime did not have blindly obedient thugs ( that argueably were the deciding votes in putting this junta in to office) they could not commit such crimes. 5) Are you of the opinion that the support of troops schould be unquestioning of their behavior? That the "military" guards of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia deserved the willing support of the Cambodians. Or that murderous behavior of Indonesian troops in Iryan Java and East Timor are guilt free because they were obeying orders? Or that we were wrong to procesute any Japanese for the Rape of Nanking or Germans for their crimes in WW II because they were "just obeying orders"? Or is it because we are AMERICANs and the rules or morality does not apply to us? I do believ that people are responsible for their behavior. I believe that Americans are just as fallible, if not more so, then others. I believe murders for hire should feel guilt.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 07:41:21 PM EST
    jimcee, yes, it was a great film. And that was after a 'popular war.' rational, ... [damn I edited this post 15 times and I still can't convey my point in a civil manner!]

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#12)
    by Rational on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 07:50:03 PM EST
    If these were draftees I would be more tolerant but they are Voleenteers and we are told the most "Professional" military that the US has ever had. If they are "Professional" then they should understand the UCMJ and the Geneva rules. Their willingness, even eagerness, to ignore them is a bit scary. It reminds me of the quote that speaks of the true danger to a nation or people is the "banality of evil" when individuals will commit criminial action that help proprogate evil because "its their job" or if they don't do it some one else will. The personel who kept the trains on schedule to the concentration camps is the prime example. So it seems that the people who are dishonoring our country and flag in Iraq who are doing these things that are evil. Fallejah, torturing prisoners, taking family members hostage, serveing at Gitmo and any number of other crimes. How can we as a nation and or a people be aware of these crimes and then call these criminials the best and bravest of the land. That is an obsceneity

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimcee on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 08:50:12 PM EST
    Sailor, Yes it was and it was still brutally honest. Now if you'll allow me, Rational, Blaming those who did thier duty is wrong. Nazi analogies do not work. If you disagree with the war that is fine but blaming the war on those who are destined to fight it and with their best intentions is wrong. They are not there to slaughter indiscriminatly. They are not blood-thirsty mercenaries who revel in the sheer power of killing. They are the sons and daughters of everyday people in this country who live their lives the best they can and pray for the safe return of thier kin. Who are, for the most part, honorable soldiers who believe in thier mission and want to come home alive to live the rest of thier lives in peace. They have a sense of duty, not blind faith to the president, but to themselves and each other and they try to represent the best of their fellow Americans. And for the most part have done a damn good job of it. If you don't like Bush (and on many points I would probably agree with you) don't paint with such a broad brush that you would insult good people in the military and thier families with your classless and ignorant comparisons to the Nazis and Pol Pot's sychophants. I would ask you to meet some of those who have come home from Iraq and Afghanistan and express your views to them face to face as you might be suprised at how they react to your opinions. Personally I am just repulsed by them.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 10:07:21 PM EST
    rational: I have not murdered civilians. I have not destroyed a country. Do you pay taxes? If so, doesn't this make you an accomplice to the crimes being committed in your name? If you expect all decent men and women in uniform to disobey their orders and accept the severe legal consequences of that, then shouldn't you be refusing to pay taxes that support this war that you feel so strongly against? If you were writing your comments in prison for civil disobedience then you might not be a complete hypocrite.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#15)
    by Rational on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 10:08:49 PM EST
    So how about East Timor and Iryan Jara as analogies. I do disagree with the policies of the present junta but without the willing and active complicity of the uniformed thugs the crimes would be limited. The scary part is that they are the children of everyday people. As we have learned to often in history it is only with the complicity of "everyday" people that the greatest evils can occur. If they were honorable soldiers doing their duty to the country they would not obey these illegal orders and commit the crimes they are guilty of. There have been a few examples of honorable members of the military. The ones that refuse to participiate in this obsceneity. At least one ( I believe a member of the Navy) refused orders based upon the fact that it was an illegal war and the orders were illegal. When this was argued in his court martial the judge granted the validity of the arguement and denied the court martial. Now that is an individual with courage and honor. The rest of the "carnivourous sheep" who are just obeying any order no matter the nature of that order. These are not the best and brightest of our country they are the shame and failure of our country. If it were not for the militaries willingness to murder, torture and terrorize those that are weaker then they the atroicities of Fallujah, Abu Ghabrib, families dying from "errant" bombs and the other crimes we have learned of could not happen. And unfortunately you are right when it comes to atroicities like this they have done a "damn good job" Where do you think the perpuatutors of these crimes come from? They are wearing US uniforms being paid with US money and they come from our communities. That is scary. That is shameful and that is the ugly reality.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#16)
    by john horse on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 08:25:32 AM EST
    punisher, Thank you for pointing out that the families of those who are sent to Iraq are also affected by the war. About a year ago, the headline in my hometown paper was about a local boy being killed in Iraq. About two days later, the headline was about his step-dad committing suicide. War, the gift that keeps on giving (or is it taking?).

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#17)
    by john horse on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 08:32:13 AM EST
    rational, Regarding how we should treat our returning Iraq vets, I suggest you read this interview with Chris Hedges, author of War Is Not A Noble Enterprise. These vets should not be made to feel guilty because they have nothing to feel guilty about. They did their duty. Those who should feel guilty are the people who sent them to fight in a war based upon such light and transient reasons.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 09:52:20 AM EST
    Free American soldiers should not be treated like children. Marching in lockstep is not a virtue, it's a CHOICE. Still, there is a cross-section of society in the military, and there are soldiers who come from better backgrounds than others. Each individual soldier must bear the burden of their own choices. Some have no excuse for their ignorance but bravado, others come from conditions so bleak it's hard to fault them for anything (they're just lucky to have made it this far). But the bottom line is returning vets NEED PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP and they need it comprehensively. Wanna bet they don't get it?

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#19)
    by Rational on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 12:52:21 PM EST
    "..These vets should not be made to feel guilty because they have nothing to feel guilty about. They did their duty. .." Gee I didn't know beating prisoners to death who were restrained by chains was a legitamate 'Duty". Because some of our best and brightest did that and are getting off scot free. I never imagined that humiliateing and tortureing prisoners that were kept off the books was part of their duty. But I guess it was. I didn't know that entrapping civilians in a Fallejah and in doing so violating any number of regulations from the Geneva convention was a honest "duty" but I guess you do. I cannot imagine bombing a wedding party as being the act of an honorable person doing their duty but all is forgiven if you are dishonoring the red white and blue. I am sorry but by the UCMJ the UN Charter and innumerable traeties the US has signed a "prevenative" war is illegal. Obeying orders to engage in an illegal action makes one a criminial. Engaging in torture and indiscriiminate murder of civilian is not duty they are crimes. And let us not forget the uniformed merc's voted 80% + in 2000 for this junta and over 70% in 2004. They voted for a war monger. They got the war they wanted and since everyone seems to be willing to give them a pass for their crimes and absolving them of all responsibility why not continue to give the world a lesson in brutality. If our troops are innocent of crimes and the best and brightest of our country that must mean that Serbs who engaged in the massacre at Srebrenica were the best and brightest of serbia. No one cannot say that a crime was committed but no one involved was guilty. You cannot say that crimes were committed and those were the best and brightest. Guilty they are and guilty history will judge them. the question is how will history judge us as a nation. If we try to defend the indefensible we as a nation will have taken a very large step to destroying what ever honor we have ever had and blotting the meaning of what we have stood for in the past.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 01:27:18 PM EST
    once again, rational, I think you're letting yourself off the hook too easily. You've decided that anyone in a uniform who doesn't go to court martial for refusing orders is a murderer or accomplice to murder. I think that it is an arbitrary line that you draw. It is a self-serving arbitrary line. It must be nice for your conscience to know who is guilty and to know so strongly that it is not you. If everyone in the military is guilty for not defying orders, then you are guilty for supporting the military passively. If you are actually submitting your comments from prison where you are serving time for the charges related to your civil disobedience than I apologize in advance for having misjudged you. If you are in the process of refusing to pay taxes that support our military's criminal adventure, then you should contact the media soon. I would think that the more publicity that you have, the better for your cause and for your chances in our legal system.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#21)
    by Rational on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 03:06:14 PM EST
    Convienent logic no one is guilty because everyone is guilty. That is facecious and absurd logic. members of the "professsional" military take an oath to obey the laws. The arguement that if they don't they can't be held responsible since everyone who believes in those laws are equally guilty. In law and reality the person who falsely takes money and commits murder is guilty.When one given special treatment and equipment in exchange for their oath to obey the law they are expected to obey the law. The military are given weapons. They are taught the rules of war and the UCMJ. If they do not obey those rules they are guilty of crimes. At least one member of the military has shown courage and has won because he proved that the to the satisfaction of a court that his refusal to disobey illegal orders was a lawful act. No do not try to dangle this red herring in this discussion. The point is very simple. Is this war illegal? Is the murder of prisoners in shackles illegal? Is the actions of the military in Fallejah a violation of the Geneva rules? Is Gitmo a violation of Law? If you answer yes then the thugs who commit these actions are as guilty as thier puppetmasters. If you condon the behavior of the executioners then you must acknowledge your support for the orders to commit murder. Either/Or One cannot acknowledge criminial activity wth out criminials. As the Serbs in Bosnia are held in international dishonor so must our forces share that opprobrium. Beating prisoners in schackles is not "duty" whether it was ordered or not. Murdering women and children with bombs at wedding parties is not "honorable" whether it was under orders or not. Sealing off cities ( Fallejah) and holding civilian populations as hostages is not the actions of "good and decent" people. Either these actions occured or they didn't. If they did those who checked thier humanity in a blind trust when they took the emporors salt are as guilty as thier paymasters. If you claim no american soldier is guilty of these crimes I ask who are doing them? Those are american thugs in american uniforms. They are criminials. The first step to health is to acknowledge the errors of the past. If we try to pretend that no one is responsible then we are saying that we do not want these people to regain mental health or a moral compass. If beating prisoners is not a crime then why should anyone feel disturbed. If murdering women and children is legal why wake up at night.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 03:18:16 PM EST
    rational: Convienent logic no one is guilty because everyone is guilty. I never said what you are claiming that I have said.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 04:46:28 PM EST
    Walter Cronkite: the U.S. should get out of Iraq now.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 08:02:22 PM EST
    Dadler - During the RatherGate dust up Cronkite also speculated on Larry King that the memo was a trick by the evil Rove.... Are you sure you want to trust his insight? rational - I think the issue was whether or not the man was guilty of being AWOL, a crime that does not rate a Courts Martial, or Missing Movement. I think he was found guilty of being AWOL. If I am incorrect, please provide a link showing that.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 08:29:46 PM EST
    Jim, Yep, I trust him on this one. Sorry, but I'm having deja vu.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 06:48:36 AM EST
    Dadler - You'd trust the guy selling ornages at the 405/Century Blvd exit if he said get out of Iraq. And that isn't, well, "rational".... ;-) BTW - Has your brother returned?

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#27)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 07:09:46 AM EST
    While one can make a perfectly rational argument for not going into Iraq an equally valid argument can be made for going into Iraq. you join the military you volunteer to be at the service of your president and governemnt. Those who would volunteer to put their life, mental health, and general well being on the line so we can write blogs with utter freedom should be honored and given all due respect. But one should not act like every soldier doesn't want to be there or is somehow against this war. Our soldiers are not Shia conscripts or slave warriors totally unaware of what they are doing. Most are aware of the big picture and are glad to be doing their job. Some are not and that is their right since it is they who are putting their life on the line. I am not going to say we aren't free to critcize the war effort but criticism is one thing, pessimism, and out right condemnation of the president and our soldiers is over the top. Bush, our soldiers are not war criminals or Nazi's. The people we are fighting in Iraq are the war criminals. If you don't agree with the policy that's fine but you don't do anyone any service when you try and compare our military and president to dictators and terrorist. (Harry Belefonte). I'm glad to see that most who don't support the war realize that. rational withstanding.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 08:22:36 AM EST
    The war is simply not justified. There were no WMDs and they knew it. Thus the war, knowingly justified by lies is illegal. The war was and is about oil, establishing bases and advancing geopolitical influence. That has been the basis of US foreign policy in the middle east for at least 50 years independent of the party in power. There is absolutely no doubt that war crimes were comitted by the US military. Fallujah, cluster munitions, napalm, and collective punishment are just a few of the more obvious. pessimism is indeed appropiate as is criticism of Bush, or are we now living in a fascist state? Hiding behind patriotism is a sign that the effort can not indeed be defended and thus all negative criticism must be silenced on what ever pretext is available.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 09:31:10 AM EST
    SD writes:
    pessimism is indeed appropiate as is criticism of Bush, or are we now living in a fascist state?
    No one has said that you can not see "pessimism" as a position. They have said that you are wrong. That doesn't make them fascists. Just disagreeable in your view.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#30)
    by soccerdad on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 10:44:02 AM EST
    PPJ Once again you fail to follow the thread. Reading comprehension has failed you again. Slado said
    I am not going to say we aren't free to critcize the war effort but criticism is one thing, pessimism, and out right condemnation of the president and our soldiers is over the top.
    emphasis mine

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dadler on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 11:25:04 AM EST
    Jim, The guys selling oranges on freeway offramps know a lot more about living a tough life than any of us. My brother was sent to Afghanistan after Iraq. He's know roaming the mountains with the Afghan army looking for Taliban needles in a haystack. He oughtta be home. The last time I saw him, before he got sent out, he was on the verge of a mental breakdown he's was so manic.

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#32)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 12:26:49 PM EST
    Soccer, Pessimism was a bad choice of words. Maybe I should have said, rooting or wishing for defeat. Not accusing you of that but some on the left do out of spite for a policy they don't agree with. WMD's was one of the reasons (although untrue)for going to war. Post 9/11 thinking, gathering threat and terrorism where the other. See Weekly Standard for terrorism. Dadler I appreciate your brother's service but are you saying Arghanistan isn't worth it or just Iraq? I understand opposing Iraq but Afghanistan? Or are you in favor or wrapping it up? If we should have troops anywhere it is in Afghanistan because Al Queda is right next door in Kashmir. The plight or situation is worth discussion and we should do everything we can to help reservists and active duty soldiers that return. But we shouldn't use thier situation or diffuculties as an excuse to bash the mission or the President. How does that help them?

    Re: The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist (none / 0) (#33)
    by Rational on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 01:49:50 PM EST
    I like the idea that citizens have the right to protest as long as they don't disagree with the powers that be. "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Theodore Roosevelt But then again treason is the coin of the realm as far as the right is concerned. When your arguement can't stand on its own and the hypocrisy of iys position is at risk of being revealed just declare any arguement to be out of bounds and treasonous and proceed to smear the messenger. I would say history, and to many quotes from to many of our past political leaders and founding members to list here, are on my side not yours. As for the arguement of "just obeying orders" as a way to get along I also refer to Teddy "No man is justified in doing evil on the ground of expediency." Theodore Roosevelt, 'The Strenuous Life,' 1900 Murdering women and children is evil, but a necessary expediency we are told. Using illegal weapons and tactics (i.e. Fallejah) is evil but a necessary expedience we are informed. Going to war on a whim just because our chicken howk leaders wanted to enrich thier campaign contributors may be evil but a necessary expedience to improve our economy and corporate returns we are lectured. Expedience does not trump law. Expedience does not overrule ethics And expedience does not justify atroicities. The regime is composed of war criminials and the uniformed thugs that blindly march forth to commit murder and conquest for those criminials are equally moraly defunct, intellectually dishonest and ethically absent. Good riddance.

    The Loneliness of the Returning Reservist | 33 comments (33 topical)