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Friday Open Thread

Here's an open thread to get your weekend rolling.

As for me, I just loved reading Diane Keaton's post on Huffpo about turning 60. I hope I have her attitude when I get there. From Annie Hall, Looking for Mr. Goodbar and Reds through Something's Gotta Give, she has always been one of my very favorite actresses.

And here's John Conyers on the Bush's warrantless electronic surveillance program (received by e-mail.)

There can be no doubt that today we are in a constitutional crisis that threatens the system of checks and balances that has preserved our fundamental freedoms for more than 200 years. There is no better illustration of that crisis than the fact that the president is openly violating our nation's laws by authorizing the NSA to engage in warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens.

The Bush Administration offers two arguments to justify their actions. First, they assert, that warrantless searches were authorized by the Afghanistan use of force resolution. Second, they say, the Constitution permits and even mandates such actions. To this member and indeed to most of our nation's legal community, neither argument is remotely plausible or credible, and nothing in their 42 page legal analysis establishes anything to the contrary.

As for the Administration's claim of statutory authority, a plain reading of the text of the resolution reveals that there is no reference whatsoever to domestic surveillance. Former Majority Leader Daschle told us that the resolution was narrowed from the Administration's initial request to avoid such construction, and the Attorney General went so far as to admit that they were told by Members of Congress that it would be "difficult if not impossible" to amend the law to authorize such a program. As Harvard Law Professor Larry Tribe wrote me, "to argue that one couldn't have gotten congressional authorization ... after arguing that ... one did get congressional authorization ... takes some nerve."

In terms of inherent constitutional authority, this too flies in the face of both common sense and legal precedent. If the Supreme Court didn't let President Truman use this authority to take over the steel mills during the Korean War in 1952, and wouldn't let President Bush use the authority to indefinitely hold enemy combatants in 2005, it is quite obvious the constitution doesn't allow warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens today. As Justice O'Connor wrote "a state of war is not a blank check."

Perhaps what is most troubling of all is that if we let this domestic spying program continue, if we let this president convince us that we are at war, so he can do what he wants, we will allow to stand the principle that the president alone can decide what laws apply to him. I submit that is not only inconsistent with the principles upon which our Republic was founded, it denigrates the very freedom we have been fighting for since the tragic events of September 11. That is why we are holding today's hearing.

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    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 11:36:23 AM EST
    Speaking of Reds, how many people know that in the time period the All-American TV show "Happy Days" was set, in heartland Milwaukee, that the actual city of Milwaukee had a SOCIALIST mayor? At the height of the Cold War. Imagine. Frank Ziedler, socialist mayor of Milwaukee (1948-60).

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 12:12:32 PM EST
    Larry Franklin gets 12+ years. Send me a postcard, Larry.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 12:27:03 PM EST
    Why We Fight Anyone seen this documentary?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 12:55:56 PM EST
    Some videos and clips (ASX streaming vids) from this morning's Domestic Surveillance Hearing -on CanOFun Two of my favorites are Martin's rebuff of Bush's Keep-It-Secret-So-Al-Qaida won't find out and Bamford's American Public Needs to Understand what this Wiretapping really Is

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by watou on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 01:28:40 PM EST
    When DoJ attorneys put forth an absurd and clearly extralegal argument for warantless spying, and they do so in any forum, aren't they violating the Rules of Professional Conduct for their profession? If I were a judge hearing DoJ attorneys arguing patent nonsense, I would be one very unhappy judge. It will be interesting to see if Abu Gonzalez dares enter a courtroom with this nonsense.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 01:29:28 PM EST
    Dadler- Couldn’t the same premise be applied to anything the federal government funds? What makes the military unique? Spoiler; nothing.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 01:30:05 PM EST
    I read a review of the "Why We Fight", looks interesting. I'm always saying old Ike was right.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 01:40:47 PM EST
    Pig, What makes the military unique? I find that question odd, as I think the military would as well. Funding war is a tad different than funding anything else, no? Or is war no different than, say, funding education grants? The prophetic notes of Ike's speech ring more true today than ever. You don't think so, fine, so be it. Ease a free country, mang.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 01:54:07 PM EST
    Dadler- These are just things taxpayers want the feds to fund. It seems to me that military defense is more appropriate since it would be difficult (impossible) for us each to purchase our share of national defense separately. You know, in the way we could purchase mail delivery or schooling for our children. But my point; from what I could tell the makers were arguing that the feds spend so much money on military ‘stuff’ because it’s big business pork and the feds have a lot of cash. Well, there are lots of things the feds fund that is big business pork. Have we all forgotten the energy bill our esteemed legislators recently passed? I guess the take-home message is, government largess and waste is unobjectionable when you like the project.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 02:22:35 PM EST
    Pig, Thanks, but you are completely avoiding or missing the issue, which is not pork or the government just buying too many weapons. The issue is the Miltary Industrial Complex, its power in MAKING policy, and its need to help perpetuate bloody conflict. That stands apart as a federal issue from education, the postal service, or anything else. Your generality that's it's all just stuff that "taxpayers want the feds to fund" barely scratches the surface. I mean, what IS your opinion, for example, of that speech by Eisenhower in the context of today? That his words aren't relevant, I would assume. So be it.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 02:47:46 PM EST
    The difference between run of the mill govt. pork and defense pork is defense porks kills. In order to justify buying more bombs and bullets, you have to use the bombs and bullets you have. Which means you have to kill people.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 02:49:23 PM EST
    kdog, thanks, i couldn't bring myself to just state the obvious.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by joejoejoe on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 03:32:31 PM EST
    Pigwiggle has a point that taxpayers want defense spending but there are a whole range of programs with different levels of utility and value. Adding 100 bridages of National Guard troops for the states who drill with minimal low tech equipment pours a ton of money into local coffers and provides a fair amount of utility. Pouring that same money into space weapons manufactured purchased by a hugely profitable defense contractor produces less value and less utility. You can't deploy space weapons in after a hurricaine but you can deploy the Guard. Guard members may kill people but that's because of policy matters, not any intrinsic quality of the National Guard.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 03:36:10 PM EST
    No Dadler...thank you for some great comments lately. I'm the first to say the govt. taxes and spends and borrows way to much money, but absent a total overhaul, or revolution if you will, I don't see this massive bueracracy going away, it's just too big. I'd rather they spend on stuff that doesn't hurt; like health care, education, reasonable enviromental protection, necessary infrastructure, etc. Not wars, drug wars, fat contracts for the connected, studies on the feasibility of neverwillbes, etc. It's probably the best we can hope for, and it's a longshot.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 03:49:48 PM EST
    Hello Chaps& Chapeses, Seeing that budget is part of the theme, I give you this from the land of the mother of parliaments, this jewel set in shimmering sea, I wont waffle more does make me a tad nausious. The bill for compulsary identity cards has passed the house of commons and waits confirmation from the house of Lords. It is held up in the Lords not because it infringes on civil liberties, but purely on cost, in the billions, give or take a shilling or two. For as long as I can remember it has always been the trend that the UK ultimately follows the US. I know you have problems of your own, but I can't say I'm awfully impressed with this reversal.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 03:53:00 PM EST
    Remember TalkLeft opposing Julie Myers, the new head of ICE? I don't know why TL would oppose her, since she's already starting to support undocumented persons. So, TL and the Bush administration agree on something at least. Of course, if you read that, and you read the news report, and you think about it in some depth, you can't help but smell the pungent odor of corruption. Too bad the Dems can't talk about that. (On the more general issue, click here to see some immigration canards exposed.)

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 05:52:44 PM EST
    Long Live the Wicked Pickett. I always said I'd give my left..uh arm for pipes like Wilson Pickett. As soulful or low down,dirty and funky as it was possible to get and capable of the same soaring, silvery tenor Sam Cooke had. Thank you Wilson. Rest In Peace.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimcee on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 07:54:35 PM EST
    Love Oscar, would like to reign him in... I still would like to know about those folks (I think they were quaker-esqe)that were kidnapped just before Xmas. Perhaps 'Quakerinthebasement' could inform us all because he is and they are ostenably Quackers? Either way it would be most interesting to find what has happened to those 'kidnapees'. Somehow they are appearing to be a sham circumstance but no one seems to want to admit it. Anyone have anything to prove me wrong? There are no ransom notices and there have been no beheadings or even videos of these hapless characters. Could this have been a publicity stunt or what? TL, Let us pedestrian folk know the truth....

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 08:00:29 PM EST
    Jondee, thanks for your kudos to Wilson Pickett! He was a great artist, and like most, had a troubled soul and it came out every time he sang.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 09:54:23 PM EST
    jimcee A measured amount of cynisism is a healthy thing. That there is no news of these poor unfortunates is I think not good. That there is no beheading video is good. That there is no beheading video to entertain the sickest amongst us is also good. I leave these words of that ever gentle man, my names sake. What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 04:31:30 AM EST
    A great illustration of the triumph of politics over morality within the GOP is the role of the GOP Congress in killing the Global Disaster Information Network. During the second Clinton administration, Al Gore was trying to implement this but funding was cut by the GOP Congress because they knew he was planning to run for President and they wanted to limit his accomplishments. Of course, the fact that it was the right thing to do and could save thousands of lives, such as in the recent tsunami, was not as important as political power.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 06:16:10 AM EST
    john horse - If it was so important, why didn't the UN become involved and fund it? In other words, why was it our responsibility to start with? I mean, on the face of it, it appears to be exactly what they should be doing.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 06:24:46 AM EST
    et al - The Demos made a big deal about the NSA taps, but they seem speechless about the demand for information from Google. Now let me see. The Demos oppose limited taps - taps on telephones known to be associated with terrorism but don't oppose the Google demand. Now the former is supported by a vast number of amercians on national defense grounds. The latter is opposed by 88% of americans. Every wonder why the Demos keep loosing national electons?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 07:56:08 AM EST
    PPJ "If it was so important..." Do you believe that having a Global Disaster Information Network in place that could have prevent thousands of deaths was not important? Good grief! "...why didn't the UN become involved and fund it?" What is the problem with conservatives and Republicans? Its always somebody else's fault. You cut the funding for something that would have saved thousands of lives in the tsunami and then point your finger at the UN. Republicans remind me of those folks described in this lyric from Creedence.
    Who'll take the promise that you don't have to keep? Don't Look Now, it ain't you or me.


    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 10:02:09 AM EST
    I found a Wilson Pickett LP in a discount bin when I was 16 or so...I damn near played the grooves off that record. One of the best. Props respect Pickett. The music that has come out of our great land is probably the greatest gift we have given the world.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 10:17:39 AM EST
    Here here kdog. One of the best thing Ive heard anyone say about American music(which really started in Africa, Scotland,Ireland etc and alchemized here) was what Garth Hudson from The Band said when someone asked him about religion: "I think all the real healing was happening over on 52nd st."

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 10:28:08 AM EST
    America's greatest contributions to the world..in no particular order, off the top of my head. Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, Blues, Jazz, Rock-n-Roll, Modern Poker, the light bulb... Anyone care to add?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 11:02:03 AM EST
    pizza, french fries, flying, hamburgers, hot dogs, steel guitar... John Horse - Watch my lips... I am not a Repub, or a Demo... There are hundreds of things that are quite important that we could do, so what is this so important? Again. Why didn't the UN get involved? After all, they were hip pocket deep in the Oil for Food program.. BTW - My first sentence is the same argument that the Left likes to use whenever the reason for invading Iraq is "Saddam was evil." You have to watch those snakes, John. They'll curl around and bite you. ;-) Another argument is, why didn't we spend that money on cancer research? That would save lives around the world, and in America.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 11:17:14 AM EST
    The atomic bomb. The fight against communism. The fight against terror. Icarceration without trial. Torture. To name a few.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 11:41:44 AM EST
    Television that would embarrass even Pravda. Don't think me negative, I have just watched two clips from the American right wing propaganda machine aka MSM it pisses me no end, and I don't even live in the US. grrrrr

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 07:06:47 AM EST
    I said good stuff oscar...I'm well aware of the bad. And incarceration without trial and torture isn't unique to the US, but is most disheartening that they have made a comeback. I though we settled those over 200 years ago! Hot dogs are of German origin...no Jim? Made popular by German immigrants here, but invented in Germany. And as for pizza, you must specify NY style. Some of the dog-food they call pizza in this country can hardly be called great. I forgot hip-hop. And Northern California kind. Bukowski, Vonnegut, and great cinema.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 07:24:34 AM EST
    kdog - I think the German's actually used GOOD meat for their version and they were sausages... instead of what we invented, which uses all of the hog except the "oink." ;-) Oscar - Nope. In GB they just tell you what to watch, eh? Wasn't there some Brit, rather edgy chap he was, who said something like, "Democracy is terrible, but it is better than the alternatives?" Of course you can do what I do when something comes on I don't like. Hit the "OFF" button.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 07:29:15 AM EST
    and football... jim, are you a denver fan?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 09:46:00 AM EST
    Point taken Jim. The pigs lips and toenails variety is all us...and all delicous. TY pun...I could I forget the beauty of American football. Add baseball and basketball as well.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 10:08:40 AM EST
    Democracy, such a wonderful thing, the Iraqis must be over the moon with it. Democracy, you cast your vote for the governement you want, or in America's case, the government Diebold wants. Democracy, you cast your vote and the government does exactly what IT wants for four years. Democracy, you vote another governement in and they do exactly what THEY want for another four years. Democracy (British style) You vote socialist, (New Labour) make that the Stormtrooper Party. Democracy, that socialist party you voted for takes your country to war against the will of the people. Democracy, that socialist party you voted for empowers the stormtroopers to arrest ANYONE they they like, for NO REASON at all. Believe me this is true. Democracy, the socialist government you voted for has passed a bill in the commons that will require every citizen to carry photographic ID that will include every last detail of your life, and I wouldn't wonder if DNA were not part of it. Democracy,Democracy, if this is Democracy give me bleeding anarchy. Democracy, stroll on, take your "Climate of Fear" and shove it where the sun don't shine.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 01:32:15 PM EST
    Its not even democracy when actual representation costs EXTRA.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 02:40:03 PM EST
    "Im not republican or demo." Trans: I walk like a duck and quack like a duck but Im not a duck.