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9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill

By Jeralyn, Section Court Decisions
Posted on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:07:52 PM EST
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Good news. The 9th Circuit today became the second circuit to declare the partial birth abortion bill unconsitutional.

A federal appeals court declared the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act unconstitutional Tuesday, saying the measure is vague and lacks an exception for cases in which a woman's health is at stake. The three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals became the second federal appeals court in the country to hold the law to be unconstitutional.

The bad news: When it reaches the Supreme Court, Judge Alito will be a sitting Justice.

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    • 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill | 21 comments (21 topical)
    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#1)
    by ras on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 02:05:15 PM EST
    Why would a PBA ban need a mother's health exception, since the ban is on an activity that takes place after the baby is born; i.e. how does not poking scissors in its brain threaten the mother?

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 02:19:46 PM EST
    So the bill is thrown out because of some techicalities. At some point I imagine there will be a technically sound PBA bill. It will be interesting to see what becomes of that.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimcee on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 04:05:32 PM EST
    Partial Birth Abortion (D&C?) is a pretty repugnant procedure and ras has a good point. At what point does it involve a woman's physical health? For most practical purposes the birth has been achieved before the D&C begins. I don't think that abortion should be banned but PBA seems a rather extreme thing for pro-abortion folks to hang thier hat on. An exception can be written into the law when a woman's physical well being is written into the law. Unfortunatly the pro-abortion extremists' stance turns off many of us who think that PBA is a nasty business although we don't want abortion banned outright.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 04:27:37 PM EST
    ras asked: Why would a PBA ban need a mother's health exception Asking that question proves you have no idea what Bush's PBA ban meant.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 04:50:12 PM EST
    It is good news, even if only temporary. It provides for some time to try to educate and inform, before Alito is one considering and ruling on it. Even if the effort is directed at people who sometimes seem to be uneducable. Very good article Jesurgislac... btw.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimcee on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 06:09:26 PM EST
    Jesurgislac, A very moving article indeed. I noticed that the author referred to her embryo as her child. That is different than what is generally used by the pro-abortion partisans. Clump of cells/feotus seem to dominate the pro-abortion lobbyist's rhetoric. Babies, child etc seem to dominate the anti-abortion rhetoric. In other words language does matter. There are so many shades of grey in the abortion debate and little honesty on both sides of the argumentthat there will be a long stretch of time until honesty dominates this debate on both sides. That said I do find it ironic that the writer of the aformentioned article aborted her 'child' because it was defective. I personally have no opinion on her choice. Although I do have a friend who was born with spina bifida who would not be alive today if her family had decided that she would have been too much of a burden to them. I do find it ironic that many of those who think abortion is OK to eliminate a possibly defective life find the death penalty cruel when it comes time to execute a convicted murderer because he is defective; ie retarded/old/insane. It is ironic to say the least.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#7)
    by Johnny on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 08:55:07 PM EST
    I do find it ironic that many of those who think abortion is OK to eliminate a possibly defective life find the death penalty cruel when it comes time to execute a convicted murderer because he is defective; ie retarded/old/insane.
    The irony is also not lost when those that would allow a child to come into a world expecting nothing but pain and suffering and zero quality of life will deny the same to a convicted murderer ;)

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#8)
    by Patrick on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 09:32:41 PM EST
    The irony is also not lost when those that would allow a child to come into a world expecting nothing but pain and suffering and zero quality of life will deny the same to a convicted murderer ;)
    Apparently it is lost on those who would claim to know that pain and suffering equates to zero quality of life.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 01:47:13 AM EST
    Jimcee: That is different than what is generally used by the pro-abortion partisans. I've never encountered any "pro-abortion partisans", jimcee, so I have no idea what kind of rhetoric they use. My position on abortion is expressed on my livejournal: a pregnant woman must have the legal right to choose whether and when and how to terminate her pregnancy.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#10)
    by Johnny on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 05:08:54 AM EST
    Apparently it is lost on those who would claim to know that pain and suffering equates to zero quality of life.
    It's a question of diminishing returns. When the pain exceeds an individuals capability for coping, quality of life reaches critical mass. It is a documented phenomenom in suicide cases.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 08:00:18 AM EST
    I take care of a child who is almost an adult who cries 14 hours a day,sleeps 8-10 hours, and is fed through her stomach. The only thing that will make her stop crying is to rock her nonstop. Is being comforted for an unspecified pain due to the inablity to speak or comprehend-quality of life?

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#12)
    by Lww on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 09:11:35 AM EST
    Hide the medicine, Nancy the nurse is in the house. The klling of "defectives" puts us on the slippery slope of the Nazi nightmare. "Quality of life" is a judgement which can't be defined by people outside the "life" being lived. Rational people can support the Oregon law which lets adults make their choice but the killing of "defectives" is monstrous.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 09:33:22 AM EST
    LWW: The klling of "defectives" puts us on the slippery slope of the Nazi nightmare. Godwin's law invoked: you lose.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 09:58:48 AM EST
    Let's add a woman's health exception to the partial birth ban and get done with it. All indications are that a PBA with that exception would stand up to judicial review. I have been pro-choice since I can remember, and since becoming pregnant a few months ago, I am even more prochoice. Anti-choice guys out there, you may find that hard to understand, but bear with me. See, my husband and I have been trying for 2 over years to have a child. I have always wanted many children. I am a preschool teacher and adore babies and children. Now that I am pregnant and have gone and am going through the major physical and emotional changes pregnancy brings to a woman, I am all the more pro choice. My choice, personally is that we are having our baby, no matter what. We are not going through invasive testing to see if our baby has any major defects. It is so clear, that yes, I am growing a human baby in me, and that means that my body is somewhat taken over by this other life force and it is amazing but also scary. I have never had bad asthma before. Since getting pregnant I have--the pregnancy that I choose to continue causes me to have a lowered immune response and leaves me more susceptible to serious complications from asthma, colds, and other viruses and bacteria. Even without asthma, I am much more likely to die of flu since becoming pregnant. I can only pray that the flu shot I got this fall protects me from whatever flu strain is dominant this season. Being pregnant is serious business, healthwise. My body is going through huge changes. The nausea coupled with contant hunger but lack of appetite, coupled with absolutely mind-numbing exhaustion in the first three months had me in tears at times. I am not complaining, I am just trying to help you guys understand that being pregnant, while it is one of the most natural things on earth, can be REALLY tough and involves my body being taken over by a process that can be scary, painful and dangerous at times. Noone should have to do this if they don't want to or if it becomes a threat to their health. Untill we make it mandatory for everyone to have their blood and organs typed so that we can all be forced to donate kidneys or bone marrow to save the lives of anyone who may need them, those who claim to value life by forcing women to continue an unwanted pregancy are blind or full of it. There is no reason not to equate mandatory bone marrow or kidney donation with mandtory carrying of a pregnancy to term by any woman who gets pregnant. Unless you believe the unborn are more deserving of life than those already born. Then you, too are guilty of what you claim "pro-abortion" people do, of drwing these arbitrary lines between the baby in the womb and the baby who has just been born. IF a guy needs a kidney translplant and you are a perfect match, why should you not be compelled, in the interest of respect for life, to donate one of your kidneys. SUre there are risks, to you, but most likely, you will be able to lead a normal life after donating, and so will the poor guy who needs a transplant. Make that the law of the land and then we can talk about taking away a woman's right to choose.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#15)
    by scarshapedstar on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 10:40:04 AM EST
    Jesus christ, the number of partial-birth abortions performed in American history is, what... two? Do wingnuts care about anything other than stupid non-issues?

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#16)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 10:55:56 AM EST
    Jesus christ, the number of partial-birth abortions performed in American history is, what... two? Do wingnuts care about anything other than stupid non-issues?
    Good rant. Well, if a fetus is human life, and there have been only two PBA's, then there have been two murders by PBA. Which, btw, is two more than the proven number of innocents executed due to the Death Penalty, which means if PBA is a stupid non-issue, then so is the DP, by your moonbat (il)logic.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimcee on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 05:58:23 PM EST
    lulu, Best of luck with your child-bearing and hope all turns out well for you and yours. I am not fond of abortion but I don't carry much truck regarding the anti-abortion sycophants. It shouldn't be illegial but we do need to be honest in the debate. There is no reason to avoid the honest truths about how abortion is used as a birth control method in some areas of society. It should also be evident through honest reporting when it is used as a 'eugenic' style of prophylactic. My complaint overall is that most media report this as a political issue and it is not a political issue. It is a personal issue. The choices made by individuals are just that. It is not a Right or Left issue it is an issue of personal responsibility. I did ask the honest question and I'll ask it again: If you believe that someone who choses to kill and were convicted and sentenced to death when they were healthy but now should be spared because they have become unhealthy in the meantime or because they were mentally deficient after conviction have more right to life than an unborn child who might possibly be born with Down-Syndrome or Spina-Bifida or the same thing as an adult convicted of a heinous crime. Does anyone know what Stephen Hawking might have to say about the issue? Just asking....

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#18)
    by Lww on Thu Feb 02, 2006 at 02:16:35 AM EST
    jesurgislac, I looked up your Godwins Law. What a crock of crap. Who should we reference when we talk about unspeakable crimes? Stalin,Bizmark? You tell me.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 02, 2006 at 03:09:06 AM EST
    LWW: Who should we reference when we talk about unspeakable crimes? Well, okay:
    In fact, Hitler's National Socialist Movement preached against and punished contraception, homosexuality, women whose main purpose was not motherhood, men who did not prove their manhood by fathering many children--and anything else that failed to serve the need of preserving and expanding the German state. A return to a strong family life, women's primary identity as mothers, tax penalties for remaining single, loans for young married couples and subsidies for childbearing, prohibition of prostitution and homosexuality, contraception, and abortion: all these were issues that the Roman Catholic Church, the Catholic Center Party, and the Nazi Party could agree on. And once Hitler came to power, popularly elected in part by the patriarchal backlash against feminist successes, he delivered on his promise to restore male supremacy. In 1933, feminists were removed from teaching and other public posts by the same law that removed "non-Aryans" from such jobs. All women were banned from the Reichstag, from judgeships, and from other decision-making posts. Under Hitler, choosing abortion became sabotage; a crime punishable by hard labor for the woman and a possible death penalty for the abortionist. cite
    You see, Godwin's Law actually protects the anti-choicers from being linked to their Nazi counterparts: but if you think it's "a crock of crap", fine: let's discuss how similar in ideology the antichoicers and the Nazis are.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 02, 2006 at 03:10:52 AM EST
    Dammit, sorry: formatting error.
    In 1933, feminists were removed from teaching and other public posts by the same law that removed "non-Aryans" from such jobs. All women were banned from the Reichstag, from judgeships, and from other decision-making posts. Under Hitler, choosing abortion became sabotage; a crime punishable by hard labor for the woman and a possible death penalty for the abortionist.cite
    You see, Godwin's Law actually protects the anti-choicers from being linked to their Nazi counterparts: but if you think it's "a crock of crap", fine: let's discuss how similar in ideology the antichoicers and the Nazis are.

    Re: 9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill (none / 0) (#21)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Feb 02, 2006 at 09:58:53 AM EST
    SUO, Okay, but the actual number of partial-birth abortions (not a medical term, it was made up by anti-abortion groups) performed is probably closer to zero. This sham issue came about not in response to actual events but in response to a "loophole" in abortion law that the wingnuts dared Clinton to close for purely partisan reasons. Banning partial-birth abortion (not a medical term) is like passing a law against marrying a corpse. Never mind that nobody wants to marry a corpse, you're clearly Satan if you oppose the bill! (btw, did it ever occur to you that "moonbats" might oppose the death penalty for all prisoners? I think your sarcasm is slipping...)

    9th Circuit Tosses Partial Birth Abortion Bill | 21 comments (21 topical)