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The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not Two, Were Seized at SOTU

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 12:02:50 PM EST
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Time Magazine has the details of a third person seized at SOTU -- an Indian guest of Sen. Alcee Hastings. Read this and see if it doesn't make you sick.

But on the same evening that President Bush was lauding democracy and freedom, there was one other person in attendance whose rights were infringed upon. The man, who did not want his identity revealed after the disturbing incident, was a personal guest of Florida Democrat Alcee Hastings. He is a prominent businessman from Broward County, Florida who works with the Department of Defense-and has a security clearance. After sitting in the gallery for the entire speech, he was surrounded by about ten law enforcement officers as he exited the chamber and whisked away to a room in the Capitol.

For close to an hour the man, who was born in India but is an American citizen, was questioned by the Police, who thought he resembled someone on a Secret Service photo watch list, according to Capitol Police Chief Terrance Gainer. Eventually, the police realized it was a case of mistaken identity and let him go. Gainer has assured Hastings that the Capitol Police, Secret Service and FBI will investigate why the man was detained for so long, and try to "sharpen our procedures." But the man was "very, very scared" by the incident, says Fred Turner, a spokesperson for Hastings. On Tuesday night, he told the congressman that the experience was "maybe just the price of being brown in America," Turner says.

Patriot Daily pointed out a few days ago how Bush is a repeat offender in this regard.

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    • The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not Two, Were Seized at SOTU | 56 comments (56 topical)
    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#1)
    by aw on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 12:47:19 PM EST
    Remember those license plates from State of Confusion? I feel like I'm living there. I have memories of living in a free country, but they're kind of vague.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 12:55:49 PM EST
    Former federal judge Alcee Hastings is not a US Sentator, TL, he's a Representative, a Congressperson. And yes, it makes me sick, but not surprised.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 01:50:32 PM EST
    jrt-
    likely to resemble a terrorist
    WTF, Israeli terrorists, White Supremetists, et al. Most of the people in the world are brown. Guess you are only watching FOX and are a racist bigot. Humans were given a bigger brain so that they can use it. Different from sheep and lapdogs. BTW- Sorry if I have insulted any animals out there in order to make a point. You clearly have more upstairs than jrt.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#4)
    by Lora on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 03:41:23 PM EST
    Does anybody here really think that the Capitol Police, the FBI and the Secret Service are going to do any meaningful investigation designed to better protect a citizen's civil liberties?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#5)
    by Punchy on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 03:59:12 PM EST
    Does anyone else find it amazing that they did all this AFTER the speech? As in, they let this "potential terrorist" (their thoughts, not mine) sit there for the WHOLE DAMN SPEECH before then whisking him away? Shouldn't they have noticed him beforehand? And if his identity is so difficult to figure out that it took them an HOUR to do so, how in the world did he get in in the first place? Finally, did ANYONE even consider why a former rep would invite a "bad guy" into the speech in the first place? Isn't all of that just too incredible to be credible? Wow, these Capitol Police are just insane in their actions. Fire the lot of 'em.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 04:22:51 PM EST
    Patriot Daily pointed out a few days ago how Bush is a repeat offender in this regard.
    I understand that I am on a progressive blog, and therefore you guys have a knee jerk reaction to blame everything on Bush, but I am not sure why in this instance it is Bush's fault? Last I knew he was not in charge of the capital police, and you have not demonstrated that he gave an order to have these people removed. Moreover, the policy seems to have been applied evenly in the case of Mrs. Sheehan who was an anti war protestor and Mrs. Young who was not. Yes Mrs. Sheehan was arrested and Mrs. Young was not, but as best as I can tell that is because Mrs. Sheehan refused to leave. Mind you I am not defending the policy I just don't understand how in this case it is Bush's fault.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 04:31:44 PM EST
    Yes Mrs. Sheehan was arrested and Mrs. Young was not, but as best as I can tell that is because Mrs. Sheehan refused to leave.
    Actually, you have it exactly backwards. Ms. Sheehan cooperated with police, but was roughly dragged from her seat and handcuffed. Whereas, Ms. Young verbally abused the officers, calling them "idiots." She was politely asked to leave. Here is Sheehan's account at Lew Rockwell's web site (libertarian, NOT progressive).

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 04:33:46 PM EST
    BSRB: you guys have a knee jerk reaction to blame everything on Bush, but I am not sure why in this instance it is Bush's fault? It's not really Bush per se. It's that he is representative of of the whole culture of fear and obsessive need to try to control. Anything or anyone not understood is a threat in the mindset he personifies.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 04:54:03 PM EST
    I am sorry, but I am not going to give to much weight to Sheehan's statement. It is biased. It needs to be backed up by an unbiased sourced. There had to have been camera's around. If her account is correct, why have we not seen the footage?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 04:55:04 PM EST
    Wait this is a libertarian blog?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 04:57:26 PM EST
    edger: While I may not agree I understand where you are coming from.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 05:12:57 PM EST
    I understand that I am on a progressive blog, and therefore you guys have a knee jerk reaction to blame everything on Bush
    After all the kind words from folks who disagree with you on this blog have offered I'm really surprised you would employ such a device. How about if I said : I understand that I am on a regressive blog and therefore you guys have a knee jerk reaction to love everything bush does. Is that accurate? Do you endorse EVERYTHING bush does? BSRB, as an experiment, I suggest you should wangle an invite to the next bush appearance in your area. Wear a t-shirt with the number of dead soldiers, or even a picture of Hillary Clinton, and see whether you are allowed to hear Fearless Leader speak.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 05:22:06 PM EST
    Sailor: Point taken. I was just trying to make the point that I understand my surroundings. I know I am not on a board that is going to be friendly to Bush, that is a given, and I don't expect anything else. I would also have expected to get booted from Clinton's SOTU if I wore a shirt highly critical of his administration. The point is that it wasn't only a critic who was removed, but also a supporter. Again, I think this would occur regardless of the person in the white house. Lastly, do you mean to tell me you don't have a gut reaction to President Bush?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 05:27:16 PM EST
    Sailor: I wasn't making a judgement. I have a gut reaction to John Kerry and Ted Kennedy. I don't trust them at all, so I can understand why people here might have a similar reaction to Bush.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 05:51:26 PM EST
    I would also have expected to get booted from Clinton's SOTU if I wore a shirt highly critical of his administration.
    1) Please show a link where this happened. 2) 2 women with shirts were removed, only one was detained. 3) One citizen with a dark complection was surrounded by various goverment agents and detained. Ask yourself; Can you get into the STFU speech if you weren't invited? If he was white, would he have been detained?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:02:51 PM EST
    1) Please show a link where this happened.
    Show me an instance where somebody wore a shirt that was critical of the president to one of Clinton's SOTU addresses. I am sure it would have made the news.
    2) 2 women with shirts were removed, only one was detained.
    All news reports of the incident say Sheehan refused to leave. Only Sheehan says this is wrong. Her word in this case is biased. If her acount were accurate do you really think it wouldn't be all over the news?
    One citizen with a dark complection was surrounded by various goverment agents and detained.
    Because:
    was questioned by the Police, who thought he resembled someone on a Secret Service photo watch list,
    Ask yourself; Can you get into the STFU speech if you weren't invited?
    By the President? Yes, he didn't invite Sheehan. He is not responsible for everyone who is invited.
    If he was white, would he have been detained?
    Yes if he were on a watch list, I would have expected him to be detained.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:10:45 PM EST
    BSRB
    All news reports of the incident say Sheehan refused to leave.
    you are full of it. very full. Tiresome as well. Perhaps you should go back to watching all your news.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:21:19 PM EST
    Ok, here is where we part company:
    Show me an instance where somebody wore a shirt that was critical of the president to one of Clinton's SOTU addresses.
    You stated a fact, prove it. I can't prove a negative, no one can. If you mean IF someone had worn a shirt saying 'support the troops' to a clinton SOTU speech they would have been arrested then you reside in fantasyland becaue that never took place. And therefore NO ONE can know what would have happened. If you are saying that YOU would be expected to be kicked out of a people's building during an elected leader's speech for wearing a shirt supporting the troops, I feel very sorry for you.
    By the President? Yes, he didn't invite Sheehan.
    It's not the president's house, he only gets to speak by invite. Every person in the place was invited by a congress person.
    All news reports of the incident say Sheehan refused to leave.
    I call BS. Provide links to this absurd declaration. If that were so the Cap cops wouldn't have apologised. Man, you really need to stop watching Faux News;-)

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:23:47 PM EST
    Squeaky: It took me a couple of minutes to come up with three independent sources to back up my claim. I can continue if you would like. Show me one eye witness acount other than Mrs. Sheehan's that refutes my position.
    Sheehan was taken away in handcuffs before Bush's arrival at the Capitol and charged with a misdemeanor, while Young left the gallery and therefore was not arrested, Gainer said.
    (see here)
    The extraordinary statement came a day after police removed Sheehan and Beverly Young, wife of Rep. C.W. "Bill" Young, R-Fla., from the visitors gallery Tuesday night. Sheehan was taken away in handcuffs before Bush's arrival at the Capitol and charged with a misdemeanor, while Young left the gallery and therefore was not arrested, Gainer said.
    (see here)
    The extraordinary statement came a day after police removed Sheehan and Beverly Young, wife of Rep. C.W. "Bill" Young, R-Fla., from the visitors gallery Tuesday night. Sheehan was taken away in handcuffs before Mr. Bush's arrival at the Capitol and charged with a misdemeanor, while Young left the gallery and therefore was not arrested, Gainer said.
    (see here)

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:28:25 PM EST
    BSRB-yawn.....

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:32:41 PM EST
    es if he were on a watch list
    If he was on the watch list how did he get in? Why didn't they vet (or remove) him during the 50 minute speech? BTW, what is this 'watch list' you speak of? Who compiles it? How does one get off of it? How accurate is it? If the F@#$%^! SS biometrics aren't any better than "thought he resembled someone on a Secret Service photo watch list" then we are worse off than before 9/11.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:34:44 PM EST
    I said:
    I would also have expected to get booted from Clinton's SOTU if I wore a shirt highly critical of his administration.
    I never said this happened. I said if it did, I would have expected the person to get removed. If this did happen and they were not removed I will retract my statement. Until that happens though, I wil continue to expect to be removed from the SOTU address if my presence will be percieved as causing a disturbance. You said:
    If you are saying that YOU would be expected to be kicked out of a people's building during an elected leader's speech for wearing a shirt supporting the troops, I feel very sorry for you.
    I said:
    The point is that it wasn't only a critic who was removed, but also a supporter.
    This actually suprised me. You asked:
    Ask yourself; Can you get into the STFU speech if you weren't invited?
    I didn't understand what point you were trying to make here, and still don't. Are you saying that because a Congressman invited them they don't have the potential to cause trouble? You Said:
    I call BS. Provide links to this absurd declaration. If that were so the Cap cops wouldn't have apologised. Man, you really need to stop watching Faux News;-)
    (See here)

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:36:41 PM EST
    I don't give a damn what you people think, or how sickened you are. Every single terrorist we faced on 9/11 was a young brown man. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy knowing someone is willing to forget about the racism he is going to be accused of and do his damn job, protect the important people at the SOTU address. In fact, the only thing that could make me feel better is if I were to be afforded the same common sense protections, instead of just important people in Washington receiving them.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:39:48 PM EST
    OK, giving you the newby benefit of the doubt:
    Sheehan was taken away in handcuffs before Bush's arrival at the Capitol and charged with a misdemeanor, while Young left the gallery and therefore was not arrested, Gainer said.
    What part of that says Sheehan refused to leave? You do realize that you just proved my (and others) point don't you? (BTW, you just quoted the same article in 3 different newspapers, that's 'syndication' not 3 different sources.) Even Young says she argued with the Cap cops after exiting, going so far as to call one of them an idiot.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:45:34 PM EST
    Var-
    Every single terrorist we faced on 9/11 was a young brown man.
    So was Ghandi.... And every single nazi was white. So wtf does that prove except that you are a racist.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:50:02 PM EST
    There's a bogeyman under your bed right now, variable. Check the closet too. And if you look outside you'll see one behind every Bush. Go get a drink or six, you'll be fine.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 06:59:26 PM EST
    Sheehan was taken away in handcuffs before Bush's arrival at the Capitol and charged with a misdemeanor, while Young left the gallery and therefore was not arrested, Gainer said.
    What do you take the therefore in this quote to mean. Yes I understand syndication, but that is the only story on this. There is no alternative. Telling the cop he is an idiot outside of the capital building is not a crime. I can tell the next cop I see on the street he is an idiot, and as long as I am not threatening to harm him he can do nothing to me. Being a pain in the butt outside of the capital and refusing to leave the capital are two very different things.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 07:03:34 PM EST
    BSRB-why is it that you guys have such low reading comprehension. I doubt that it is an overactive imagination, as there is no evidence of that. Am I missing something here?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 07:08:52 PM EST
    Wow squeaky you overwhelm me with your mental prowess. What are you talking about? Please give me some indication what you are referring to. Is it the therefore in the statement. It is simple logic. If something bad happens to somebody, and someone else behaved in a certain manner and therefore something bad didn't happen to her it is logical that the first person in question did not behave in that manner.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#30)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 07:10:51 PM EST
    In fact, the only thing that could make me feel better is if I were to be afforded the same common sense protections, instead of just important people in Washington receiving them.
    God forbid Variable ever has to see a young brown man ever again. I mean it ... GOD FORBID THIS! ... [crickets] ... Gee, and it works so well for robberdobson;-)
    Are you saying that because a Congressman invited them they don't have the potential to cause trouble?
    Uhhh, are you really saying that we arrest people for the potential to cause trouble!? Man, not only could we not build enough prisons, we couldn't begin to staff them;-)
    I wil continue to expect to be removed from the SOTU address if my presence will be percieved as causing a disturbance.
    And I will continue to be sorry for you. As an American, I prefer to die on my feet, not live on my knees. Your mileage may vary. Everyone in that audience was invited, had to show ID, metal detected, bomb sniffed and had to show their invite.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 07:17:03 PM EST
    BSRB-
    Wow squeaky you overwhelm me with your mental prowess.
    Thanks, I work on it although much of it is a natural gift.....
    Please give me some indication what you are referring to
    link

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#32)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 07:36:06 PM EST
    Telling the cop he is an idiot outside of the capital building is not a crime. I can tell the next cop I see on the street he is an idiot, and as long as I am not threatening to harm him he can do nothing to me.
    There are so many points you are wrong on this. They weren't outside the capitol building, and if you were brown and called the next cop you saw an idiot you'd probably get a beatdown and charged with resisiting arrest. And as it turns out, Young was profane with the cop, not just called him an idiot, and there is video of her explanation. And your contention that there is only ONE story on this is laughable. EVERY Washington news bureau covered it. e.g. "Neither guest should have been confronted about the expressive T-shirts," Gainer's statement said. "Just wearing a T-shirt is not unlawful," Gainer said. Wearing a T-shirt and engaging in actions meant to draw attention to the shirt is against the law, he said, but neither woman was doing so. About 45 minutes into the speech, an officer asked Beverly Young to step outside, where he told her: "We consider you a protester"because of her shirt, she said.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 09:36:28 PM EST
    Show me one eye witness acount other than Mrs. Sheehan's that refutes my position.
    Nothing in what you quoted contradicted Ms. Sheehan's account in the slightest. Did you even bother to read her account, or did you just dismiss it out of hand? You infer from the articles you quote without a shred of supporting evidence that the handcuffs were evidence that she resisted being removed. As she report in her account, she was hauled from her seat and handcuffed, despite her cooperating with them. Far from "all stories" showing that she resisted, you have failed to provide a single story that cited any resistance on her part. Show me one story that says she resisted, and I'll take you seriously.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 06:20:51 AM EST
    et al - If I remember correctly, the President is directed by the Constitution to give Congress a yearly update. All have done so, although Jefferson, and perhaps others, just sent a letter and had it read. All the BS aside, Mrs. Sheehan was arrested and evicted because of her past actions. Based on these actions a reasonable person would assume she was there to protest and cause problems. The police, etc., may now act confused, apologize, etc., but that is why. In my view she deserved to be removed. So did Mrs. Young, who wasn't arrested and/or restrained probably because she had no past history, although her later actions were a bit provocative. When it comes to events where the President, any President, is carrying out a constitutional mandated duty, both sides should just shut up. Decorum is a much undervalued virtue in today's world. As for the Indian, my concern is that, if they thought he was wanted, it took so long to act. I would guess there have already been long discussions over that issue. Squeaky - Noting that all of the 9/11 hijackers were Moslem and "brown" is no more racist than noting that KKK members are "white." sailor writes:
    Uhhh, are you really saying that we arrest people for the potential to cause trouble!?
    Uh, yes. We do. It shouldn't happen a lot, but there are cases when the public's right should over ride the individual's right.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 06:43:38 AM EST
    Mrs. Sheehan was arrested and evicted because of her past actions. Based on these actions a reasonable person would assume she was there to protest and cause problems. Right. Makes perfect sense. She represents opposition to our policies and actions. Because of our past actions we abrogate her (and our and everone elses) rights. After all, her presence might cause others to actually think about our policies. Grab her. Handcuff her. Ducttape her mouth shut. Whatever it takes... get that evil woman out of here before she causes (gasp!) thinking! Shut her up. And while you're at it find some books to burn as well, and will somebody please turn off that god**n internet, fer chrissakes.... Uh, yes. We do. It shouldn't happen a lot, but there are cases when the public's right should over ride the individual's right. Law? Bill of rights? Oh yeah... well... ummm... hey, Karl, help me out here... what's that rationalization you came up with just the other day? (And get me another drink will you?) Oh yeah... I remember now...Those are only to be followed when they're convenient and serve our purposes. They only apply when "we" say they apply. Otherwise? F**k 'em! Can't we use one of our all purpose acme death ray "signing statements" here? Simple enough isn't it? What don't you get?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 06:53:15 AM EST
    Squeaky - Noting that all of the 9/11 hijackers were Moslem and "brown" is no more racist than noting that KKK members are "white." Jeezus, I never thought of that! And there's a whole street full of white people right outside my door. And, omigod, some of them have white sheets hanging on clotheslines. Eeeek. Quick officer, arrest those people. Ahhh.. that's better. Now I'm safe. Kinda lonely and quiet around here though. Where'd everybody go?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 07:21:29 AM EST
    Jim, you know how much I like music, right? I've got Pink Floyd playing background to my breakfast this morning... Wish you were here: "And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts? Hot ashes for trees? Hot air for a cool breeze? Cold comfort for change? And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?"

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 07:56:01 AM EST
    ppj-
    Noting that all of the 9/11 hijackers were Moslem and "brown" is no more racist than noting that KKK members are "white."
    Your use of quotes out of context to support your fascist and racist ideas had become an obvious formula. Variable was not 'just noting' that the 9/11 hijackers were brown, he was justifying the arrest or detention of all brown people because the 9/11 hijackers happened to be brown. Your kind of racist and closet fascism it the worst because you are dishonest about it. A wolf, albeit a dim one, in sheep's clothing. You are the only one here that still thinks the sheep outfit is still working. Too many holes in it to be believable.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 12:23:48 PM EST
    edger - Anyone who listens to Pink Floyd has my sympathy. Doubly so if they do at breakfast. Squeaky - You know, I don't call you names, nor do I try to smear you. My point was simple and stands on its own. Religion and color is an identifier. Noting them say nothing about anything else. When you do your smear attacks, I am reminded of this comment:
    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.
    Now if you hadn't said the above, and if I thought you were sincere, I might be upset. But since you have told all of us what you do, I'll just grin and watch you twist and turn trying to deny it. BTW - Nice demo of Goodwin's Law. edger - That's about it. If you are internatonally known as a demonstrator, and show up at the SOTU, the police are going to suspect you.
    ( I had written) It shouldn't happen a lot, but there are cases when the public's right should over ride the individual's right.
    Your thoughtful response.
    Law? Bill of rights? Oh yeah... well... ummm... hey, Karl, help me out here... what's that rationalization you came up with just the other day?
    Really? You can't scream fire in a theater. You can't drive drunk or with certain physical impairments. You can't start a business in a R1 zoned building There are many instances in with public rights overcome private rights. Did you really think otherwise?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 12:46:36 PM EST
    There are many instances in with public rights overcome private rights. Did you really think otherwise? Hey, very impressive! Take a point made about how a human being, a mother of a dead veteran of a war you support, is treated, and try to justify it with a standard diversion to "legality". Adolf was pretty good at that too, back in the early '40s and late '30s. And you gotta hand it to the old bugger - he was very careful to make sure that everything he did was legal too. That's what made it right, right? How is he feeling these days? Talk with him much lately? Is he ok? How's the Reich progressing? Gee... only 930 odd years to go to make that "thousand year" milestone, huh? One battle at a time, right? Don't let it get you down though. Good things take time I guess... keep on truckin'! ;-)

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 12:53:04 PM EST
    ppj- Recontextualizing quotes to fit your convoluted view of the worldis your one note song. The chorus, another lie, is that you are a social liberal. That is your sheep's clothing. The gig is up. You are a fake. Your banner quote that you love to pull up when you are caught fabricating or regurgitating wingnut propaganda is as fake as all the other points you make. Taking the quotes of others out of context to support your points is dishonest at best, You only wind calling attention to how intellectually and ethically bankrupt you really are.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 02:36:03 PM EST
    If you are internatonally known as a demonstrator, and show up at the SOTU, the police are going to suspect you. Suspect? Of what? Body packing a logic bomb? I "suspect" that she didn't get in there without being cleared by security.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 08:14:38 PM EST
    Squeaky writes:
    Taking the quotes of others out of context to support your points is dishonest at best,
    Out of context? Gee, Squeaky you have trapped yourself again. Here is your quote, etc. It is perfectly in context.
    Thread: Kozlowski Sentenced Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I. Posted by JimakaPPJ at September 20, 2005 06:59 AM Squeak writes: "Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I" Glad to have you admit to what you are doing.
    You said what you said, Squeaky. You love to smear/insult, and when you get caught you want to cry. Speaking of racist positions, wasn't it you who told us that Rove was evil because his Grandfather was in the German army? edger - She had a ticket, given to her by a Congress woman from the SF bay area. Surely you knew this. So no, she was cleared by "security." The ticket said it all. edger - And I am glad to see you jumping in their with the Goodwin's Law violation. That is typically what happens when someone on the Left realizes that they have lost the point. One more time edger. Public rights trump individual rights in many cases. You knew that. Quit trying to act surprised.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 08:19:06 PM EST
    Quit trying to act surprised. Me? Surprised by you? ^^ OO Give my best to old Adolf, huh? Only 970 years to go. You're making progress ;-)

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#45)
    by squeaky on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 08:21:11 PM EST
    ppj- You are not worth the time of day. Sad case. I do not know how you are able to look yourself in the mirror. But hey everyone is different.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 08:43:49 PM EST
    Squeaky - Try as you may, your words capture you. You called me a racist and a facist. That got me to thinking. Remember this thread?
    Posted by PPJ aka Jim August 2, 2005 06:56 AM Squeaky - Thanks for the links. I was assuming you had something from the MSM, not a far Left blog site that rambles off in all directions. I mean I have heard nothing about dual citizenship, death camps, Grandfather, etc. But let?s assume you are right, let?s say Rove was born in Germany and let?s say he has dual citizenship and let?s say his father worked as an engineer for a company that built death camps. So what, Squeaky? Do you live in a world that says the grandchildren suffer because of the sins of the grandfather? Or is it only Republicans? Or is it only members of the Bush Administration? Either way, it is despicable.
    Want some more context? I can keep backing it up with quotes and links. I mean racist is as racist does, eh?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 08:45:32 PM EST
    edger - So, you didn't know she had a ticket and you didn't know public rights can trump private rights. See how educational blogging can be?

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 08:49:40 PM EST
    ppj-You are dishonest. Your posts are consistant. Nothing new. Same old saw. yawn.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 12:22:35 AM EST
    edger - So, you didn't know she had a ticket...See how educational blogging can be? Yes. It certainly is:
    Posted by edger February 5, 2006 03:36 PM Suspect? Of what? Body packing a logic bomb? I "suspect" that she didn't get in there without being cleared by security.
    It hones reading and comprehension skills enormously. ;-)

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 12:48:49 AM EST
    For the people here who have argued against the account provided by Cindy Sheehan the 'logic' (if you can call it that) is always the same: (1) Pick on minor irrelevant aspects of the argument. (2) Always attribute base motives to any Bush opponents. (4) Always attribute noble motives to Bush supporters or harassing officials acting under partisan or abusive rules. (4) Introduce as many red herrings as possible into the argument. (5) Insist that the entire Left of centre media is biased. (6) Then there's Europe and the rest of the world where a lot of people care about America and are horrified at its catastrophic financial and constitutional demise under Bush. Never acknowledge this truth.Best, in fact, to insist that these dumb assed turkeys - who are surprisingly better informed than most Americans - are part of the GOP faithful who will be brought back into the fold if they'd only have a further talk with Jesus. ...I am writing from Australia, and I know more about your politics than most of your own people. I am deeply saddened that supporters of Cindy Sheehan have to prove that water flows downhill and the sun gets up in the east each morning just in order to affirm her civil rights. You'll just have to survive this nonsense until the full idiocy of the Bush regime is unmasked. NB...you're going broke FAST!!!...with a guy at the wheel who cares only about his buddies. Sad, sad...

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 05:56:43 AM EST
    kenjay-Sadly your point about the level of awareness of the ordinary American has some truth to it. Those of us who are informed are so mainly through blogs and the internet. The rest depend on MSM. One thing that you may have missed are the polls that show most Americans, if not informed, are uneasy with this self serving administration. What is the famous line by honest Abe:
    You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
    Me thinks 'the people' smell a rat.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 06:10:03 AM EST
    NB...you're going broke FAST!!!...with a guy at the wheel who cares only about his buddies. Sad, sad... Glad someone noticed. Only a little more than half of the US has... the rest are cruising in lala land.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 06:52:13 AM EST
    Squeaky - You said what you said and the record is there. I'll be happy to pull them up at anytime. edger - Parsing is not your forte. kenjay writes:
    NB...you're going broke FAST!!!...with a guy at the wheel who cares only about his buddies. Sad, sad...
    Care to tell us what the currency exchange rate this morning is? Care to compare unemployment rates? BTW - How are the Moslem attacks going? Trains and beaches all safe, are they? I mean, I'm sorry to be blunt, but it takes a whole lot of hubris to tell us:
    ...I am writing from Australia, and I know more about your politics than most of your own people.
    Oh, really? And what is the basis for your belief? The Internet? Do you read all of the blogs, Left, Right and in the Middle? Newspapers? Which ones? TV news? Again, which ones and how often? Have a lot of conversations with "Americans" living and working here on a daily basis, do you? No? Have you learned to "channel?" (You know, John Edwards should receive a royalty...) And the best is, after complaining about the Mrs. Sheehan debates, you offer nothing. Tell me. Are tou aware that Mrs. Sheehan: Met twice with the President? The first time was lukewarm, the second was cold. Can you tell us why she should receive such treatment? Have you noticed that after her Crawford encampment was over, the MSM started ignoring her, so she started making even more outlandish statements?
    "You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism," Sheehan declares.
    Uh huh. Have you noticed that after Israel gave back land, as soon as Hamas was elected they immediately called for the destruction of Israel? Yes sir. We should be paying a lot of attention to Mrs. Sheehand? You know Kenjay, I think you know as much about the US as people who order the "Bloomin' Onion" as an appetizer at their local "Outback Steakhouse" know about Australia.

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 06:59:36 AM EST
    kenjay, Only a little more than half of the US has... the rest are cruising in lala land. And a good percentage of those are hiding under the blankets curled up tight in a fetal position with their hands over their ears moaning "Noooooooooooo".

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 08:07:56 AM EST
    edger - Parsing is not your forte. He's right, you'll never be able to do selective quotes and deception the way PPJ has in the past: Link

    Re: The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not (none / 0) (#56)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 09:02:27 AM EST
    DA, I learn more from him every day! ;-)

    The Price of Being Brown at SOTU: Three, Not Two, Were Seized at SOTU | 56 comments (56 topical)